Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: canuguzzi on May 25, 2016, 03:03:27 PM
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What criteria do you use to classify a motorcycle as an "appliance"?
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The biggest "appliance" bike I've ever owned was a GL1800. It was perfect. It needed me not. I was a gnat on its back. Same with my ST1300: Too Perfect. I put over 20,000 miles on each of them so thay had plenty of opportunity to make me love them.
My greatest 2-wheeled loves were my ST1100, a 400cc Yamaha scooter, and my 750cc Guzzi Breva. Just something made me love them.
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Lack of soul, boring and/or ugly.
The Goldwing and all large displacement scooters come immediately to mind.
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I dunno.. the current Goldwing/Valkyrie isn't so different from the California/ El Dorado... they're all big, bagged, faired bikes.
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Three things. The engine. The engine, and the engine. My MZ is "better" in every measurable way then the Lairo or Monza. Meh. The MZ engine is boring as cheese. (Yamaha single)
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Three things. The engine. The engine, and the engine. My MZ is "better" in every measurable way then the Lairo or Monza. Meh. The MZ engine is boring as cheese. (Yamaha single)
^ big +1 to this. My BMW K1300s was an incredibly well designed and engineered motorcycle. Outstanding components with an incredibly smooth and fast engine. And boring as hell unless ridden at arrest me speeds. Every time I rode it, all I could think was how much I'd love the bike if only it had either a Triumph Triple or V-twin engine in it.
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What criteria do you use to classify a motorcycle as an "appliance"?
Any three of the top ten list below:
10) Defrost timer
09) pilot light
08) 30 page instruction booklet -- one page in English
07) energy star on the label
06) FCCID
05) can't outrun its power cord
04) Warranty is free; shipping is not.
03) As seen on TV
02) music video accessory
01) awarded as a prize on THE PRICE IS RIGHT
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Yes...the engine. It has to make me want to twist the throttle at any speed just to feel and hear the engine. Not necessary to break traffic laws either...just the visceral feel and sound is what does it. If a bike can't do that but is otherwise perfectly fine transportation: Appliance.
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Appliance means continuous operation with minimal maintenance, like a fridge. The BMW classic K-bike fits that definition. It has a bulletproof engine / drivetrain which if kept filled with the proper fluids will continue to reward with seemingly limitless miles. It's not uncommon to exceed 500K, or 1M miles on these bikes. Any motorcycle could be considered an appliance if it gave service like one of these over-engineered German workhorses.
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Lots of body work
Can't see the engine
very reliable
& -Huge storage capacity (think Honda Pacific Coast)
..Edited
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Three things. The engine. The engine, and the engine. My MZ is "better" in every measurable way then the Lairo or Monza. Meh. The MZ engine is boring as cheese. (Yamaha single)
Even the Rotax in my Silver Star was a bit bland. Lots of whirring noises that were louder than the (stock) exhaust at speed, not overly powerful and lacking low-end torque. Most appliance-like "weird" bike I've ever owned. My brother's Pegaso (with Rotax built engine) was pretty boring too.
In contrast, the little 72 degree 350 v-twin in the Morini grumbles, growls, purrs, clicks and whirs depending on the engine speed, along with a nice mini-rumble from the exhaust and honk from the intake. Still very "civilized" though. Very torquey - pulls from a stop with no throttle, doesn't "chug" if you're in too high of a gear for the rpms - it just pulls. Just enough vibration to remind you it's running. 36 hp surpasses the MZ with less displacement. Oh, and 74 mpg average... :bike-037:
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My criteria for judging motorcycles is very simple. If they make me laugh in my helmet they are good bikes. Appliances do not make me laugh or even giggle.
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Appliance means continuous operation with minimal maintenance, like a fridge. The BMW classic K-bike fits that definition. It has a bulletproof engine / drivetrain which if kept filled with the proper fluids will continue to reward with seemingly limitless miles. It's not uncommon to exceed 500K, or 1M miles on these bikes. Any motorcycle could be considered an appliance if it gave service like one of these over-engineered German workhorses.
This is the most positive take on the term "appliance" and it fits the K-bikes well. I mean, a bike that's nicknamed the flying-brick is about as appliance-like as you can get. But brick can be complimentary as the Commodores taught us with the song "Brick House."
When using appliance as a negative, it's something that performs a needed service and the only emotion you have for it disgust when it fails - like a dishwashing machine.
@NorgePilot: Interesting question, thanks.
To me, any bike approaches the negative view of appliance when it contains some of these features:
- Sterile, conservative styling
- Exceptionally quiet (mechanical and exhaust noises)
- Power outlets
- Stereo
- More than 10 buttons on the handlebars
- No tachometer
- Electrically adjustable windshield
- Heated seats/grips
- ABS/Traction control, etc. (anything that controls the bike and eliminates the rider's judgment or skill)
- reverse gear
- requires two people to lift it if dropped
So - that's my first reaction.
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My first bike was a Honda CL-70...pressed sheet metal frame, under stressed 4-stroke power plant, incredible gas mileage; by any account, an appliance-like machine. But it was so much more to me, a fourteen year old just getting a sense of himself. That bike set me in motion...
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I will answer as I always do. If I have a bike that is an appliance, and I want it to have character, I loosen the oil drain, disconnect one of the spark plugs and punch a hole in the muffler with a $100.00 official Harley screwdriver....
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It must be able to cook an omelette, blend veggies, butter toast, vacum the carpet, and be owned by someone else. The first four features are optional but the last one is mandatory.
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If you DON'T turn around and look at it after parking, it's an appliance.
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What criteria do you use to classify a motorcycle as an "appliance"?
An "appliance" is a tool to assist you to do a job. From my observations, riding motorbikes is not seen as a job that has to be done, I think that a motorcyclist and a bike become more than the sum of their parts. An appliance is something you can walk away from if it doesn't work properly, a large proportion of the posts on here are because they don't ! And IMO there's the fun !
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I will answer as I always do. If I have a bike that is an appliance, and I want it to have character, I loosen the oil drain, disconnect one of the spark plugs and punch a hole in the muffler with a $100.00 official Harley screwdriver.... :evil:9
This is been said so often it's dumb, in my opinion....
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I once a quote that most Honda's, (cars and motorcycles), are so perfectly engineered, they are "boring..." :rolleyes: :shocked: :wink: - - - and of course, that's why we all like quirky Guzzi's - because they definitely have SOUL! :thumb: :cool:
However, when I hear the word "appliance" as referred to a motorcycle, this "cult classic" comes to mind.
The PC800 Pacific Coast! :thumb: :cool:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bH3LQa/Honda_PC_800.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bH3LQa)
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It seems to me that the more:
- The vehicle's speed seems removed or delayed from the throttle
- The suspension is tuned to hide the road
- The vehicle emphasizes efficiency over performance
- It does things for you (shifts gears, turns on/off lights, keeps you out of trouble....heck the Model T owners would include advance the spark!...)
- It creates a serene experience
....the closer it comes to a transportation appliance.
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Well, yeah. It can get down to "what's the point?" Might as well take the Prius..
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This is been said so often it's dumb, in my opinion....
Yep. Same old answer to the same old appliance vs. character debate. For the upteenth time. :clock:
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Three things. The engine. The engine, and the engine. My MZ is "better" in every measurable way then the Lairo or Monza. Meh. The MZ engine is boring as cheese. (Yamaha single)
I cannot agree with you since I've ridden a Lario and own a MuZ Tour. If the Lario was bulletproof I'd have 1 instead of my 750 Breva. My MuZ is the best handling bike I've ever ridden but for overall enjoyment the Lario wins in my comparison. My Breva is a winner too for solo or 2up riding, but it's not a Lario. :thumb:
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However, when I hear the word "appliance" as referred to a motorcycle, this "cult classic" comes to mind.
The PC800 Pacific Coast! :thumb: :cool:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bH3LQa/Honda_PC_800.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bH3LQa)
For some reason I quite like these. perhaps it is that it is designed uncompromisingly for purpose and achieves it well.... I don't know.
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Even the Rotax in my Silver Star was a bit bland. Lots of whirring noises that were louder than the (stock) exhaust at speed, not overly powerful and lacking low-end torque. Most appliance-like "weird" bike I've ever owned. My brother's Pegaso (with Rotax built engine) was pretty boring too.
In contrast, the little 72 degree 350 v-twin in the Morini grumbles, growls, purrs, clicks and whirs depending on the engine speed, along with a nice mini-rumble from the exhaust and honk from the intake. Still very "civilized" though. Very torquey - pulls from a stop with no throttle, doesn't "chug" if you're in too high of a gear for the rpms - it just pulls. Just enough vibration to remind you it's running. 36 hp surpasses the MZ with less displacement. Oh, and 74 mpg average... :bike-037:
you should try the same engine as your silverstar in the KTM 600,
instead of 36 hp is suddenly makes 50 HP.
forget the concept of being civilised. the engine is a complete lunatic , rattles at low revs, and completely explodes over 5000 RPM
on the KTM you are short shifting in the first three gears to stop you from looping it backwards.
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I cannot agree with you since I've ridden a Lario and own a MuZ Tour. If the Lario was bulletproof I'd have 1 instead of my 750 Breva. My MuZ is the best handling bike I've ever ridden but for overall enjoyment the Lario wins in my comparison. My Breva is a winner too for solo or 2up riding, but it's not a Lario. :thumb:
Well, I have a bullet proof Lario, and pick it over the tour *every* time. The Monza is a little better handling bike than the Lario, and is much more fun to operate than the MZ, too. The MZ would smoke either one on a road course, and has more suspension compliance on rough roads. The engine is boring though, so it sits. It'll be fine out in the SoCal canyons with the engine at full boil, but around here it's just why bother? :smiley:
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If you DON'T turn around and look at it after parking, it's an appliance.
This.
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Any resemblance to a Prius--the most boring car ever rented. Pretty much all Honda cars, and most of their motorcycles.
Rotax used to make some fiery 2-stroke, triple snowmobile engines....
Make mine something that snarls a bit, burbles nicely on deceleration, and is pretty.
Time to walk poodles. I think I will try and talk the moto-rental guys in Durango into getting a couple used V7 Guzzis in their fleet. Maybe a Stelvio too.
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If you DON'T turn around and look at it after parking, it's an appliance.
I swapped bikes with a friend of mine, his Goldwing and my Daytona. The GW made such an impression on me, that I can honestly say, that I would be happy to never look at one of them again in this lifetime.
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you should try the same engine as your silverstar in the KTM 600,
instead of 36 hp is suddenly makes 50 HP.
forget the concept of being civilised. the engine is a complete lunatic , rattles at low revs, and completely explodes over 5000 RPM
on the KTM you are short shifting in the first three gears to stop you from looping it backwards.
Oh, I know. It's the same with the ATK 605. I'm hoping to "wake up" the (31 hp) 504E Rotax from an MZ Saxon Tour that is in my ATK 604 project a bit. I have a Dellorto PHF34 carb and much more free-flowing exhaust. If that doesn't do it, a 675 cam and some head work should bump the hp.
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I swapped bikes with a friend of mine, his Goldwing and my Daytona. The GW made such an impression on me, that I can honestly say, that I would be happy to never look at one of them again in this lifetime.
What was your friends reaction to your Daytona?
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What was your friends reaction to your Daytona?
Guzzi owner so he liked it, and the Goldwing is long gone. Just a case of temporary insanity on his part.
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I wonder how long it would take for an electric bike to feel like an appliance. I really do like the purity of riding without having to worry about gears and a throttle, but I imagine that it would get boring or old eventually.
I will probably still buy one when the battery technology doubles current range though. They're so cheap to run...
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Why are you worried about the gears and throttle on your bike ? Is there a problem with them ?
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Those mail order specials of course!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/Mailbox_Bike_zpslcftdlwn.jpg)
:tongue:
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Why are you worried about the gears and throttle on your bike ? Is there a problem with them ?
No, it's just a very different riding experience going electric. No gearbox. and smooth smooth throttle with TONS of torque
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Lots of body work
Can't see the engine
very reliable
(think Honda Pacific Coast)
My Ducati is an appliance :huh:
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Appliance - a bike that has no starting ritual, push the button and go. Does everything so well that you never have to give it a second thought. As stated most Honda cars and motorcycle are that way. Engineered to perfection. Why do most riders resent this type of product. Remember "The nicest people ride a Honda" slogan. Who wants a motorcycle that the granny across the street could start!!! It has to do with man and machine being one. The blending of personalities. It needs you and only you and you need it. That's what makes a motorcycle special.
Just my $.02 worth. Cheers, Tim
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Ubercycles?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/18_agusan-skylab11_zpsxjsxhetr.jpg)
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Ubercycles?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/18_agusan-skylab11_zpsxjsxhetr.jpg)
In other news, today a motorcycle caught an updraft and made 1500 ft before landing at O'Hare. The TSA took 5 hours to go through the carry on luggage.
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If it looks like a food mixer does that make it an appliance?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=retro+food+mixer&hl=en-GB&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiI_4Ki5fjMAhUGI8AKHabQDEkQ_AUIBigB#mhpiv=12? (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=retro+food+mixer&hl=en-GB&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiI_4Ki5fjMAhUGI8AKHabQDEkQ_AUIBigB#mhpiv=12?)
http://bikeglam.com/dkw-hummel-classic-motorcycles (http://bikeglam.com/dkw-hummel-classic-motorcycles)
surely not.
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My Ducati is an appliance :huh:
Probably
-Edited earlier post to include Huge storage capacity..
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(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Isomoto_125_B_(GT).jpg[)
A motorcycle developed by a Fridge Magnate.
Sorry I had to get that pun in.
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(https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Isomoto_125_B_(GT).jpg[)
A motorcycle developed by a Fridge Magnate.
Sorry I had to get that pun in.
...or was that a Fridge Magnet? (Couldn't resist!!)
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Uber Pooper is one. No pitstops and eco friendly too.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/TOTO-Toilet-Bike-Neo_3-537x412_zpsvnmmqz6m.jpg)
:azn:
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Emergency response? Hmmm .... Well, gotta be nimble and visible so its not exactly a dull ride! .... disqualified! :cry:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/motorcycle-paramedic-ambulance-photo-story-78_zpsk30hu3mf.jpg)
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Errr ..... no. :shocked:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/condomBike_zpsfc90ntwx.jpg)
Genuine Crotch Rocket!
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As far as appliance I guess thats all subjective. My washing machine shakes as much as my brothers sportster, don't want to swing a leg over either. I really liked my 1981 550 maxim, quiet, quick, and revy. I also really like my 1984 V65c, not as quiet, not as quick, and not as revy. Haven't been able to put any miles on the 1977 GL1000 yet, we shall see if I like that one also. 3 different bikes. For some reason my dad's GS850 suzuki does nothing for me and it is basically a bigger version of my 550 maxim, and yet I've always lusted after and XS1100. Clear as mud my tastes are.
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If it looks like a food mixer does that make it an appliance?
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=retro+food+mixer&hl=en-GB&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiI_4Ki5fjMAhUGI8AKHabQDEkQ_AUIBigB#mhpiv=12? (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=retro+food+mixer&hl=en-GB&prmd=ivns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiI_4Ki5fjMAhUGI8AKHabQDEkQ_AUIBigB#mhpiv=12?)
http://bikeglam.com/dkw-hummel-classic-motorcycles (http://bikeglam.com/dkw-hummel-classic-motorcycles)
surely not.
How was it received? Did it sell?
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...or was that a Fridge Magnet? (Couldn't resist!!)
Well that was my joke, how come my attached images arent working. 1954 Isomoto. Renzo Revolta was a Fridge Magnate. The company was originally Isothermos. Better known for their cars such as the Grifo. Now that was a desirable car.
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I went for about 10 years owning nothing but Guzzi's, but decided a few years ago that having an "appliance" to go along with a Guzzi was the best of both worlds. I love the V11 Lemans, but it isnt a bike I particularly enjoy riding long distances or putting down to the grocery store. I just replaced my Suzuki vstrom with an FJR. I will miss the vstrom, but I will enjoy the passing power of the FJR. I had a Norge, which was a good bike in many respects and had the "character" that the FJR lacks, but it was a reliability nightmare. It marked the end of my "Guzzi only" era.
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73 BMW R75 , full fairing . The most unexciting bike I've ever had but never stopped running !
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Oh no you didn't!
R75 as appliance!
Mod! Mod!
Where for art thou, Dusty?
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73 BMW R75 , full fairing . The most unexciting bike I've ever had but never stopped running !
+1
R90/6, same thing.
Except it stopped running big time on a trip, requiring hundreds of miles at <50 mph to get to someone who would work on it. (It needed the transmission opened to replace a 1 dollar spring.)
I don't know what makes a bike an appliance, but like the justice said about pornography, I know it when I see it.
Moto
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My 97 Bandit was in the running to be an appliance, being a UJM, but it wasn't. Miss that bike.
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Oh no you didn't!
R75 as appliance!
Mod! Mod!
Where for art thou, Dusty?
Obviously he never rode it in the company of modern fast bikes , then a /5 gets real exciting :laugh:
Character is meaningless when broken down along the side of a 2 lane road in Western Kansas in 100 degree heat with cattle trucks whizzing by at 90 MPH :shocked:
Dusty
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When I'm on the road I love an appliance bike. Gives the In the Wind feel, but the place I'm going to is as important as the journey in this case so I don't want to worry about not getting there. Comfort and power; the rest is so much meh.
In town, going for coffee, then "character" is OK. But I have too many other hobbies to have bikes with too much character. I think my XR650L is going to character its' self right out of here.
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Quote from Dusty:
Character is meaningless when broken down along the side of a 2 lane road in Western Kansas in 100 degree heat with cattle trucks whizzing by at 90 MPH
But that experience will build character! :wink: The truck ain't the only thing whizzing when it goes by you. Oh well...cow urine cools you off if the wind is blowing which it usually is in western Kansas.
GliderJohn
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When I'm on the road I love an appliance bike. Gives the In the Wind feel, but the place I'm going to is as important as the journey in this case so I don't want to worry about not getting there. Comfort and power; the rest is so much meh.
In town, going for coffee, then "character" is OK. But I have too many other hobbies to have bikes with too much character.
That pretty much nails it. There is a place for the appliance bike and a place for a bike with character. They usual aren't the same place.
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Probably more character than appliance. Maybe not.
(https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/12963681_906733006110158_15475748308953996_n.jpg?oh=b81b6aede3dec3afd64bdd97cf44639d&oe=57DA2F74)
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If you can dry your gloves on the cylinder heads while you're getting a coffee, it's an appliance.
If you can make toast on the exhaust, it's an appliance.
If it shakes enough to actually make a milkshake, it's an appliance.
Some faired K-bikes look like the side of a refrigerator.
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When I'm on the road I love an appliance bike. Gives the In the Wind feel, but the place I'm going to is as important as the journey in this case so I don't want to worry about not getting there. Comfort and power; the rest is so much meh.
In town, going for coffee, then "character" is OK. But I have too many other hobbies to have bikes with too much character. I think my XR650L is going to character its' self right out of here.
I call the 2 types of bikes Ginger and Mary Ann.
My Scura is Ginger. Beautiful, charismatic. Perfect for Sat. night.
But I'm in need of a Mary Ann. Sensible, reliable.
M
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The biggest "appliance" bike I've ever owned was a GL1800. It was perfect. It needed me not. I was a gnat on its back. Same with my ST1300: Too Perfect. I put over 20,000 miles on each of them so thay had plenty of opportunity to make me love them.
My greatest 2-wheeled loves were my ST1100, a 400cc Yamaha scooter, and my 750cc Guzzi Breva. Just something made me love them.
+1 on the ST1300 being "too perfect" Ultimately competent, with no soul. I rode one for 30K miles. When it came time to get rid of one of my two bikes, of course the Griso stayed. Riding the ST always made me think, "industrial sewing machine."
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Seems around here if it's not a Guzzi it's an appliance.Sorry I just love motorcycles.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nv9VrF/Indian.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nv9VrF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kGhuJv/Wing.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kGhuJv)
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Seems around here if it's not a Guzzi it's an appliance.Sorry I just love motorcycles.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nv9VrF/Indian.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nv9VrF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kGhuJv/Wing.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kGhuJv)
:1:
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I call the 2 types of bikes Ginger and Mary Ann.
My Scura is Ginger. Beautiful, charismatic. Perfect for Sat. night.
But I'm in need of a Mary Ann. Sensible, reliable.
M
My CB1100 is my Mary Ann. Ginger is fun, long term I prefer Mary Ann. :D
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"If you can dry your gloves on the cylinder heads while you're getting a coffee, it's an appliance.
If you can make toast on the exhaust, it's an appliance.
If it shakes enough to actually make a milkshake, it's an appliance."
Soooooo... Guzzi, then? I dry my gloves on the valve covers all the time, and it certainly shakes enough.
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Seems around here if it's not a Guzzi it's an appliance.Sorry I just love motorcycles.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nv9VrF/Indian.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nv9VrF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kGhuJv/Wing.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kGhuJv)
My thoughts exactly.
Every rider is biased towards his own brand, but most Guzzi riders are very 'dedicated' to put it mildly ;-)
After riding Guzzi's for a very long time, I bought another brand - I had my reasons.
Of course the other bike was an 'appliance' according to this board if not 'a whore' as one distinguished member called it ;-)
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"If you can dry your gloves on the cylinder heads while you're getting a coffee, it's an appliance.
If you can make toast on the exhaust, it's an appliance.
If it shakes enough to actually make a milkshake, it's an appliance."
Soooooo... Guzzi, then? I dry my gloves on the valve covers all the time, and it certainly shakes enough.
Moto Guzzis aren't the only appliances capable of glove-drying or milkshake production :wink:
I like to think of myself as a citizen of the world. I have owned motorcycles from lots of different places and manufacturers. With very few exceptions, I have liked them all. Hell, I'd even consider a US brand if I could buy one here that wasn't a cruiser :evil: Yeah, I'm lookin' at you, Motus, c'mon up.
I buy what appeals to me at that particular moment in time. Sadly, my garage can only hold 4 or 5 (or 1 if you talk to my wife), so when the next urge strikes, something has to go in order to make room. I'm not particularly brand-loyal, certainly not to the rabid extent that some are. Life is too short to not experience as much as possible.
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The most appliance like bike I ever rode was a BMW K75. I know K bikes have been mentioned but this is the epitome. Everything was OK. It was smooth, handled acceptibly, and power was adequite. Just didn't push any buttons. At least when I twist the throttle on my Goldwing it jumps out. The K75 not so much.
Pete
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I think motorcycling isn't about what you ride, it is that you ride.
Reliability, smoothness and perfection in a bike aren't detractions from motorcycling they are just different than fixing, fiddling and reworking. You can like all of it or just some but its all the joy of motorcycling.
All motorcycles are good ones because in the end they are all just machines that have no soul or character, those things come from the rider, not metal bits and pieces.
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All motorcycles are good ones because in the end they are all just machines that have no soul or character, those things come from the rider, not metal bits and pieces.
I must admit while to a great extent I agree, I have pondered about that at times.
I have wondered if all those involved in a machine do not in some way impart some of them selves, some energy to the inanimate item in question.
It would certainly answer some odd questions if that happened, and might impart some sort of 'influence' or 'pesueudo soul' if you prefer to an other wise inanimate object.
I'm reminded of a Triumph that used to be in Invercargill. It was around for quite a while and appeared in a range of guises ranging from tiger stripes to pink. The thing is, this triumph sooner or later killed all it's riders. Every singe one of them. It was freaky.
In the end, the local 'Lads' bought it, stripped it down into parts, then took the parts out on a fishing boat and dumped them at sea. No one would ever have described these lads as "airy fairy".
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Honda seems to have done a fair amount of unusual work on the CB1100 to give the rider a pretty specific riding experience. In the following link is a story, mainly on the follow on 2014 Deluxe model but some applies to the original version. It's a good read. I find it very interesting that the Honda engineers strove for a very different affect with the CB, something that Moto Guzzi seems to do also.
Naturally, if you happen to like inline fours (or any motor) you'll get it. In any event, what the link provides is a great insight to what one special team at Honda thinks and I think is a great sidebar to this thread.
http://world.honda.com/CB1100/engineer-talk/episode1/
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An impressive and interesting read rboe.
I was left with the overwhelming feeling that they were reviving or re-inventing design and engineering techniques and skills that would be the norm in past times.
A bit like a modern boat manufacturer building a wooden boat. They had their virtues indeed, and it's worth keeping the skills and understandings alive.
Frankly though I've always felt that the CB 4 cyclinder bikes were too wide and vibrated too much, after reading this I would be happy to test one out.
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I wonder how long it would take for an electric bike to feel like an appliance.
For me, about 6 months. The first 6 months I owned my Empulse, I'd be out on the twisties quite a bit, enjoying the smooth acceration and lack of vibration that lets you focus on other aspects of riding. Then one day, suddenly, it was the most boring thing in the world.
But when it comes to commuting, boring is good, at least 4 out of 5 days. My office is 20 miles away, but the Empulse makes me feel like it's down the block. That's how easy it is to cover distance, carry stuff, and slice through traffic. Monday through Thursday, a commuting appliance is worth its weight in gold. On Friday, I fire up the Boxer.
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I must admit while to a great extent I agree, I have pondered about that at times.
I have wondered if all those involved in a machine do not in some way impart some of them selves, some energy to the inanimate item in question.
It would certainly answer some odd questions if that happened, and might impart some sort of 'influence' or 'pesueudo soul' if you prefer to an other wise inanimate object.
I'm reminded of a Triumph that used to be in Invercargill. It was around for quite a while and appeared in a range of guises ranging from tiger stripes to pink. The thing is, this triumph sooner or later killed all it's riders. Every singe one of them. It was freaky.
In the end, the local 'Lads' bought it, stripped it down into parts, then took the parts out on a fishing boat and dumped them at sea. No one would ever have described these lads as "airy fairy".
In answer, yes. I think that when you buy a used bike fir example, some of the soul or character of the PO can be seen in the bike, the way it was maintained, modified...cared for. That is evidenced by how it runs.
Imho, a bike off the showroom floor, Guzzi or not, it is nothing until the owner gets on it and rides it.
The bike doesn't make the rider, the rider makes the bike. Even a trashed bike, mundane and bland can appear to be something special if the rider does more than use it as an appliance.
Again imho, a bike is an appliance if the one riding is too.
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I had a couple of the above mentioned K75 appliances. I once had the bike on the centerstand, and set a nickel on the seat edgewise. I started the bike and revved it up, and the nickel stayed up on edge. I guess some people think that is terrible. :laugh: The only sensation of speed I ever got riding that bike was the wind, and the tires bumping a bit about 85 mph. Quiet, reliable. Zero drama. It's main fault was it was top heavy at low speed or in the garage. Lots of them got dropped by short legged owners. I liked riding it without the windshield. I often got the sensation I was flying without external means. No real engine noise, just strafing the tarmac at about 30 inches. :whip2: Definitely not the same as a bike with a lumpier engine, but enjoyable just the same.
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Forrest Gump has one.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/lawnmower%20chopper_zpscgd8ygnd.jpg)
:wink:
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Forrest Gump has one.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/lawnmower%20chopper_zpscgd8ygnd.jpg)
:wink:
I think that location is Wheels Through Time in Maggie Valley, NC.
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I have wondered if all those involved in a machine do not in some way impart some of them selves, some energy to the inanimate item in question.
It would certainly answer some odd questions if that happened, and might impart some sort of 'influence' or 'pesueudo soul' if you prefer to an other wise inanimate object.
It's been 9 years (!) since I've bought a new Guzzi, so I don't know if Luigi has retired or not, but.. the guy that puts a machine together definitely has an effect on it's "soul". I looked for a picture to no avail, Penderic probably has one.. of Luigi, grease stained undershirt, Carlo cap, cigarette hanging out the corner of his mouth, 2 day growth of beard, and a flask of Grappa in his hip pocket. :smiley:
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I think motorcycling isn't about what you ride, it is that you ride.
Reliability, smoothness and perfection in a bike aren't detractions from motorcycling they are just different than fixing, fiddling and reworking. You can like all of it or just some but its all the joy of motorcycling.
All motorcycles are good ones because in the end they are all just machines that have no soul or character, those things come from the rider, not metal bits and pieces.
NP, I agree with you, so I'm curious why you asked the question to begin with? Certainly you know the kind of answer you're going to get around here :wink:
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I think it interesting to read others opinions on this topic. Until recently, I hadn't heard the term appliance used to describe most other bikes than MGs in such a way and not in a kidding sort of way. There had always been the talk about HD bikes but that was a long time ago, the typical rivalry between those riding Japanese bikes and those riding American Iron so to speak.
What I haven't yet noticed is a general term used to describe MG bikes. There is the "quirky" and words like that but usually not so dismissive and exclusionary. Here, the word appliance gets used (it seems to in many cases) as a put down.
I was just curious is all, I like topics that are new.
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Here, the word appliance gets used (it seems to in many cases) as a put down.
Well, sure it does! I guess you haven't been here long :wink:
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I guess I would call my goose an appliance. Go out to work in the morning, it starts and runs, every day. Want to go on a trip? Check the tires and oil and go.
I had another Honda a while back and ended up selling it. Why? It wasn't different enough.
Soul? Not really, just a connection between me and it. That comes from working on the bike and making it mine. Not another one like it in the world. I've ridden newer Guzzi's and they aren't the same as MINE. :)
Doesn't hurt any that it is different in more ways than one. Heck most folks comment on the ammo cans first, then they notice it is a wierd brand.
I like my rat, or should I say raT5.
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I've got one of those big, plastic, faired K-bikes that are denigrated as an appliance.
But it's an appliance with ~160 hp, that goes from 80-100 mph in about 3 seconds. My KitchenAid blender never made me say OH FAAAARRRCK when I set it to 10.
So, I really like my BMW. And it doesn't shake me to pieces at stoplights like the Cali 1400 (though it also gets zero attention at those stoplights). Flame away, friends!
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I had a couple of the above mentioned K75 appliances. I once had the bike on the centerstand, and set a nickel on the seat edgewise. I started the bike and revved it up, and the nickel stayed up on edge. I guess some people think that is terrible. :laugh: The only sensation of speed I ever got riding that bike was the wind, and the tires bumping a bit about 85 mph. Quiet, reliable. Zero drama. It's main fault was it was top heavy at low speed or in the garage. Lots of them got dropped by short legged owners. I liked riding it without the windshield. I often got the sensation I was flying without external means. No real engine noise, just strafing the tarmac at about 30 inches. :whip2: Definitely not the same as a bike with a lumpier engine, but enjoyable just the same.
Starting the bike on the centre stand is probably OK, but NEVER put it in gear and spin it up, certain destruction will result !
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NP, I agree with you, so I'm curious why you asked the question to begin with? Certainly you know the kind of answer you're going to get around here :wink:
Probably interested in others opinions, he'll have to be careful though, that's just the sort of behaviour that'll catch on...
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.....
I'm reminded of a Triumph that used to be in Invercargill. It was around for quite a while and appeared in a range of guises ranging from tiger stripes to pink. The thing is, this triumph sooner or later killed all it's riders. Every singe one of them. It was freaky.
In the end, the local 'Lads' bought it, stripped it down into parts, then took the parts out on a fishing boat and dumped them at sea. No one would ever have described these lads as "airy fairy".
:shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
"Christine" as a motorcycle?
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Guzzi Hero I agree!! PC800 I have two one stripping down for adventure bike set up another is my tow truck to get my 1976 Two strokes to the mountains!! Of course my RD400 and GT500 run a close second..
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dLxYBF/IMG131_Medium.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dLxYBF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iFijJv/P6130849_Medium.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iFijJv)
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/dLxYBF/IMG131_Medium.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dLxYBF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iFijJv/P6130849_Medium.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iFijJv)
Does that trailer have brakes? I'm going to guess that the trailer with one of those bikes weighs what the PC800 weighs. A towed load that weighs as much as the tow vehicle would be quite scary.
Maybe you should use a GL1800 Gold Wing, or a Harley tourer for this job.
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Yea uuuu the trailer has no brakes, Pc800 580lbs, RD 315lb, GT 355lb, trailer 160lb. Would be great to have brakes on the trailer judicious but this one doesnt, braking is important for any bike towing. I get 35-40mpg towing the bikes at 70mph. My brothers Goldwing doesnt get that with him solo! Towing with a bike aint for everyone. "Cheers" :popcorn:
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What criteria do you use to classify a motorcycle as an "appliance"?
How we choose one appliance over similar another? Price, Colour and Availability.
If that is how you choose your bike ... just maybe maybe its seen as an appliance. Lots of folks want just that .. a bike that does its job like an appliance.
When you choose a bike on Feel, Sound, Looks and price be damned, then you are riding an emotionally connected beast, one that can break your heart before it does any damage to your wallet.. this is a site for people in love.
Fast is nice, comfort is required, reliability is wished for, holding something precious between your thighs while the world flashes past? Nirvana!
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Well, maybe and maybe not. That feel, sound and looks may get old for you after a while.
I love my bike. But, it doesn't look great, I really don't like how it sounds, and it could feel a whole lot smoother.
I bought it without ever having touched it or ever having ridden a Guzzi. So that connection has come through a lot of blood, sweat and pain to get it where it is now. I can remember the first one hour trip I took on it. I was cursing it horribly cause the seat was like a thinly padded 2x4. The little bikini windshield caused more turbulence than it was worth. Finally got better with a new seat and taking of the screen. I didn't actually 'love' it until I put the LMII fairing on it. That made me want more and I put the SPIII fairing on it.
At the same time, it is an appliance. It gets me to work and back. Takes me on errands. I reward it with some Sunday or vacation rides. It repays me by having an awful vibration in the bars when under load (up hill) at around 65mph (throttles are balanced to be smooth at around 80mph). Or by making my head thrummm after hours of listening to the exhaust (yes, even with ear plugs).
If I wanted to take a cross country trip I'd rather have a nice comfortable appliance than a rip snorting beast that made me sore after a few hours. I'll keep working on mine to make it more like an appliance.