Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: DaSwami on May 26, 2016, 02:20:27 AM
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He &(@#$$% repositioned the front forks on mine, making the front sit exactly one inch lower than stock. I'm guessing he was thinking about making my bike one of his "lowered" specials and then changed his mind. The rest of the bike looks stock.
Anyone know how to return the forks to the factory setting? The tops of the fork tubes stick out of the top of the triple tree/clamp...stock has them flush with the clamp.
Thanks,
Swami
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Support bike under sump so wheel is off the ground, undo pinch bolts, wriggle forks down, retighten pinch bolts.
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Thank you sir...where are the pinch bolts? I'm green at this stuff.
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The upper fork tubes pass through clamps in the upper and lower triple trees. If you look you will see that those passages are slotted. The slots allow the clamps to pinch the tubes so's they stay put. Somewhere in the area of those slots will be one or more large-ish (6mm allen head?) pinch bolts. Those are what you want to loosen.
When tightening, if there are more than one bolt at a slot, the bolts must be cinched down evenly, as a unit. I think there's another topic out there talking about adjusting valves that way where it doesn't matter. Here it does. Once one is tighter than the other, the other is ineffective. Remember, these are PINCH bolts. Snug and a nudge is plenty. overtightening them can have bad effects. I like to use two identical rachets and snug them up together. As long as you're not overtorquing, the absolute torque value isn't as important as even pinching.
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OK, I see the pinch bolts on my CB1100, Scrambler, and TW200 plain as day. On the V7II, I can see the threads but the heads of the bolts are hidden under the instrument cluster somewhere. So there is some disassembly required.
On a related note, this pisses me off to no end. Why why why mess with the factory stock settings on a new bike. As you said evenness of torque and I'm sure equal fork tube length are critically important. I'm not qualified to to do this work, I just drove 800 miles round trip to pick up this bike and it's been modified from stock at the dealer. I think MI or Piaggio should send a tech to my house and make this right. Why do I want a bike whose already limited fork travel has been reduced by 20% for no good reason??? It's just really stupid.
Damn, I'm in a bad mood now
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I don't know the specifics of your bike, so I can't say what all is involved. Getting the forks even is not a big deal, although as you say, getting to that point might be more of a deal.
Are you sure this happened at the dealer? I don't know one way or another, just asking.
And finally, is this a problem with the bike's rideability, or is it more of a matter of principle? I'm only asking this because you note that it's 'different', but you don't indicate that it's necessarily 'bad'. The part about losing 20% of your fork travel doesn't make sense, though. The steering has been quickened, but the travel hasn't been shortened unless the fork sliders are hammering against the lower tree on every bump.
A lot of folks do that mod to improve handling. I'm always running mine up and down the trees just to see what happens with different loads and tires and stuff. It's really no big deal, and one you'll want to get comfy with if you're 800 miles out. I'm carrying a jack and hammer with me on the trike right now just so I can smack the tubes around from beside the road.
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For what it is worth I have had that mod recommended to me by one of the current Godfathers of Guzzi as a way to improve the handling on a V7.
Das
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I bought my bike from MI as well. Dave is one of the easiest and IMO nicest people to deal with..............I bet if you call him he could at least fill you in if he knows anything and walk you thru the fix step by step. He contacted me 9 months after I bought my bike just to say hi and see how I was doing.
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For Gods sakes ask Moto International! I might add that I'd leave it be until I asked why. You're likely better off with them through the trees. MI knows a thing or two. Your travel should not have changed.
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Unless you're having some type of handling problem due to the lowered forks, your bike probably handles better than if the forks were all the way up. I wouldn't touch them until you have (at least) called the dealer to ask why they adjusted them (just to ease your mind). As Rodekyll said, be VERY careful when tightening pinch bolts if you DO decide to adjust them because you could be opening up Pandora's Box by costing yourself a bunch of $$$$ to repair the damage if they're over-tightened.
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A quick call to Dave at MI will have this "issue" sorted with ease. Like others have said after your phone call you may be more than happy to keep them in the current position.
It puzzles me why you haven't called?
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He &(@#$$% repositioned the front forks on mine, making the front sit exactly one inch lower than stock. I'm guessing he was thinking about making my bike one of his "lowered" specials and then changed his mind. The rest of the bike looks stock.
Anyone know how to return the forks to the factory setting? The tops of the fork tubes stick out of the top of the triple tree/clamp...stock has them flush with the clamp.
Thanks,
Swami
If I were you I wouldn't go trashing one of the best and smartest Moto Guzzi dealers there is. Call MI and speak to them before you blow a gasket. :grin:
Dean
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I emailed Dave last night as soon as I saw it and I will call him shortly. Yes he is a very nice guy.
Yes, I blew a gasket because I don't like my bikes messed with, and I had a few beers when I made the discovery. I'm not a "farkler" or modifier, the bike is perfect to me as is. I even gave him a little pushback when he told me he was uploading the latest ECU map to the bike, my other V7 II runs perfect as is out of the box. sometimes new "maps" cause issues.
You all are right, I'm going by the length of the fork gaiters, they are a full one inch shorter than my other bike, I assume a gaiter gets shorter via suspension compression??? That's where I come up with shortening the travel.
I guess we'll see where this goes
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If you traveled 800 miles with the forks through the clamps and didn't feel a thunk up front you should be good. Yes, the total travel distance of the shocks is less by however much they were moved through the triples. However, you have WAY more travel than you need on a fork. I'm guessing you use 2.5-3" of fork travel and you have about 6-7" currentlybetween the top and bottom. The gators are compressed because the space they sit between is smaller, the forks are NOT compressed(just moved). You are fine trust me.
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Thanks for the feedback. I trailered the bike 400 miles did not ride it yet. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around this. But that is why I post about this.
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Yes, the total travel distance of the shocks is less by however much they were moved through the triples.
Only if the travel is more than the remaining exposed fork tube length, which is possible, but unlikely.
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My feeling is if you have to ask how to lower the fork tubes, maybe you should have someone with experience (I.E. Moto Int.) do it as this is a very critical area and you do not want them to come loose or over torquing the bolts would also make for a very bad day.
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Let me get this right, you're posting here bitchin' about a dealer ( & in the subject title!) THEN send them an email for help? Let me know how it works out. I need to learn from you sir :laugh:
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and I had a few beers when I made the discovery.
This is always the legal disclaimer. Sorry I try not to be negative, but really?
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Moto International offers to set up bikes specifically for shorter riders. See for example
http://www.motointernational.com/blog/news-and-events/post/another-short-v7-stone-is-available-now
Perhaps yours was one that they had set up for a shorter rider?
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Dang, MI didn't set out to shaft you. This is a minor thing. I can understand being a little miffed but it isn't like they decided to screw with you right?
You know, when you pick up a new bike, the dealer (for sure MI does it) goes through a checklist to make sure it's ready to go AND you sign the form saying all is okay. Its your job to inspect and accept delivery and if something isn't right, have it adjusted before you accept the bike.
Things happen, this is one if them.
Might I suggest you kindly ask one if the mods to delete the entire thread so you can start over, one part being letting MI know you were just frustrated and now with a cooler frame if mind, would they be so kind as to help you get the forks the way you want them.
Just a thought.
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Only if the travel is more than the remaining exposed fork tube length, which is possible, but highly unlikely.
FTFY
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Fixed the title of the thread.
Not saying they were trying to screw me, just saying it was unnecessary. Leave the bikes suspension alone at the factory specs. What's wrong with that??
It is a subtle difference that was not easy to catch, until I looked at it next to a "normal" V7II. In reality, I shouldn't have to "catch" this as it should not have been done to begin with.
Ok, the beer disclaimer, that is not a justification for my indignation, just for ranting about it here. I still would be pissed about it. At least I admit it. Yes, should never post when drinking and pissed, I broke my rule. Bad call.
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well, now I'm confused. In the OP you said you can see the forks sticking out the top of the trees by one inch, and that's how you know they've been altered. Then you say you're going by the fork gaiters, which seem shorter on a different year bike and may be an apples to oranges comparison. Finally you say that you noticed because it appears different than an unlike model when they're side-by-side. You cap it off with a claim about reduced fork travel, which is simply not the result of what happened.
I asked in my first response if you are sure that this actually happened at the dealer. Now I'm questioning if it happened at all.
I also asked if you noticed anything BAD about the alleged mod, and even though you say you've got another V7II to compare to, you've said nothing about the quality of the handling.
In short, I think you might have begun this topic in haste, based on something that appears different between two unlike objects. Perhaps pulling it and starting over when you have some more information would be the more fair approach. I'm not saying this stuff didn't happen. I'm just saying that if it did, nothing here yet confirms it.
$0.02
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well, now I'm confused. In the OP you said you can see the forks sticking out the top of the trees by one inch, and that's how you know they've been altered. Then you say you're going by the fork gaiters, which seem shorter on a different year bike and may be an apples to oranges comparison. Finally you say that you noticed because it appears different than an unlike model when they're side-by-side. You cap it off with a claim about reduced fork travel, which is simply not the result of what happened.
I asked in my first response if you are sure that this actually happened at the dealer. Now I'm questioning if it happened at all.
I also asked if you noticed anything BAD about the alleged mod, and even though you say you've got another V7II to compare to, you've said nothing about the quality of the handling.
In short, I think you might have begun this topic in haste, based on something that appears different between two unlike objects. Perhaps pulling it and starting over when you have some more information would be the more fair approach. I'm not saying this stuff didn't happen. I'm just saying that if it did, nothing here yet confirms it.
$0.02
Now you are being an a**hole
The bike has been altered, 100%, at the dealer. I have an IDENTICAL bike to compare it to side by side. The length of the fork gaiter is 1" shorter and the fork tubes stick out 1" out of the top of the triple tree/clamp or whatever it is called. Given the gaiters are 1" shorter, I ASSUMED that was due to compressed forks and thus the claim of reduced fork travel. I have not ridden the bike yet. I just trailered it home yesterday. Would you like me to post some pictures?? Maybe that would clear it up for you
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PM'd you.
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Fixed the title of the thread.
Not saying they were trying to screw me, just saying it was unnecessary. Leave the bikes suspension alone at the factory specs. What's wrong with that??
It is a subtle difference that was not easy to catch, until I looked at it next to a "normal" V7II. In reality, I shouldn't have to "catch" this as it should not have been done to begin with.
Ok, the beer disclaimer, that is not a justification for my indignation, just for ranting about it here. I still would be pissed about it. At least I admit it. Yes, should never post when drinking and pissed, I broke my rule. Bad call.
It was unnecessary for you that is correct. We still don't know why it was done prior to your purchase and that is why you need to talk to them. There is likely a good story behind it and even a small chance they didn't even mess with it, we don't know?? I'd be more curious than upset. If they have good reason and it was a mistake not to put it back to stock for you, I'd ride it and compare to your other V7. I bet I'd like it better. You may be a lucky guy!!
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It's the principle of the matter. If you buy a 4x4 pickup truck with factory suspension height, how would you feel if you found out the dealer lowered the suspension a couple of inches "for better handling"? Then your slightly larger shiny new tires don't fit and you have no idea why, because factory specs allow for the larger tire size.
Maybe it's no big deal to ya'll, and that's fine. To each their own.
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It was unnecessary for you that is correct. We still don't know why it was done prior to your purchase and that is why you need to talk to them. There is likely a good story behind it and even a small chance they didn't even mess with it, we don't know?? I'd be more curious than upset. If they have good reason and it was a mistake not to put it back to stock for you, I'd ride it and compare to your other V7. I bet I'd like it better. You may be a lucky guy!!
OK, I will be calling them shortly. Thanks
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Now you are being an a**hole
[snip]
No, sir, it's entirely you. All I've done besides offering you solid advice and support, is to point out that you've told three different stories while dodging straight answers on pertinent questions. You on the other hand are bashing a dealer based in ignorance and on a supposition that at this point you seem to be pulling out of your ass. I've tried to coax you toward a reasonable position, but based on this crap, we're done.
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It is entirely possible that being trailered, the pressure from the cinch straps pulled the bars and thus triple clamps down the forks a bit. This could happen if the cinch straps were made very tight and/or the triple clamp bolt bolts weren't torqued properly.
That means it might not have happened at the dealer but enroute and depending on who cinched it down, they would be the source.
All in all, it's a pretty easy fix, if one is uncomfortable setting the forks right, any bike shop should be able to take care of it, it is not Guzzi specific.
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It is entirely possible that being trailered, the pressure from the cinch straps pulled the bars and thus triple clamps down the forks a bit. This could happen if the cinch straps were made very tight and/or the triple clamp bolt bolts weren't torqued properly.
That means it might not have happened at the dealer but enroute and depending on who cinched it down, they would be the source.
All in all, it's a pretty easy fix, if one is uncomfortable setting the forks right, any bike shop should be able to take care of it, it is not Guzzi specific.
It is also possible to get VD from toilet seats.
(Sorry for the PG analogy :boozing:)
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It is also possible to get VD from toilet seats.
(Sorry for the PG analogy :boozing:)
Do tell. On second thought, noooo...
:laugh:
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Let's do this . Take the bike back to MI , have them lower the forks back to stock , problem solved . No idea how or why this happened , but this conversation has devolved into a pissing contest .
Edit , or since you live so far away just do it yourself . Not hard .
Dusty
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The owners manual provides torque specs
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Leave the bikes suspension alone at the factory specs. What's wrong with that??
What's wrong with it is that all bikes' suspensions are compromises. An average that can sort of work for everyone.
Suspensions on motorcycles are adjustable. For a reason.
Fork tubes on most motorcycles are adjustable up and down in the triple clamps. Some forks even have scored lines so it's easy to know the adjustment position without using a ruler.
(http://www.ffsadv.com/fuzion/images/IMG_20141130_191450.jpg)
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The stock position of the forks on my 14 V7 Special
(http://thumb.ibb.co/n4O9Jv/20160526_184927.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n4O9Jv)
The position of the pinch bolt on the lower clamp
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eVvdBF/20160526_185058.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eVvdBF)
The upper pinch bolts are behind the plastic ignition switch cover / filler panel.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bYDn5a/20160526_185045.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bYDn5a)
Easy to adjust, but please don't mess with it, if you're not comfortable using an Allen wrench.
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Then let me be the one who decides where and how the front forks are adjusted, I paid for the dang thing.
Talked to Dave, we had a nice civil conversation. He has no idea how/why it happened. He provided some pics and instructions on how to reverse it but I'm gonna let it ride for now. Taking it back to MI is not an option for me. I'm moving soon and do not have the time.
So there is that.
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Realistically it should not take more than 20 minutes to fix .
Dusty
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Then let me be the one who decides where and how the front forks are adjusted, I paid for the dang thing.
Do what you want. I really don't care. Just trying to point out that Forks are adjustable and on many bikes lowering from the factory position can improve steering turn in.
It's easy to put it back. I took the trouble to post photos in my previous post. I hope they are of help to you.
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I for one would like pictures. You know what they say, "If there are no pictures, then . . . .". :popcorn:
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I for one would like pictures. You know what they say, "If there are no pictures, then . . . .". :popcorn:
This is the internet, so fair enough
Stock 2016 V7II Stone, top of fork tube
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gq9S5a/P5262879.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gq9S5a)
Measurement of fork gaiter, bike on side stand
(http://thumb.ibb.co/d2xrWF/P5262883.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d2xrWF)
New VII Stone just purchased, top of fork tube
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gGcEka/P5262881.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gGcEka)
Measurement of fork gaiter on same, bike on side stand
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dZRwyv/P5262882.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dZRwyv)
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You do realize that in the time it has taken to post all of this the problem could have been solved , correct ? Is the intention here to solve a problem , or is there another motive ?
Dusty
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Realistically it should not take more than 20 minutes to fix .
Dusty
Unless it's a new V7II. In order to get to the pinch bolts, you need to remove the gauges and the bracket that holds the TPS and ABS lights. At least I did, to make it easy.
Raising the fork tubes in the Ts may also make the bike squirmish at high speed. I raised mine to improve turn-in, but put them back to avoid tank slappers on the slab. Everything is a compromise.
I'll go back in my hole now.
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The problem can not be easily resolved, due to time and distance issues. It is a 6-7 hour drive each way from my house. That is the closest dealer.
There is no other motivation. What possibly could it be? I discovered the issue last night, posted in anger about it, finally talked to the dealer, decided to let it ride. The only reason I post photos as proof is by request and there is an undercurrent that something sinister is going on. Get real. I have nothing to gain by this.
Granted, this whole thing is pretty damn weird. I truly wish it had never happened.
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Unless it's a new V7II. In order to get to the pinch bolts, you need to remove the gauges and the bracket that holds the TPS and ABS lights. At least I did, to make it easy.
Raising the fork tubes in the Ts may also make the bike squirmish at high speed. I raised mine to improve turn-in, but put them back to avoid tank slappers on the slab. Everything is a compromise.
I'll go back in my hole now.
Stay on the surface Joe , Rocker and I were discussing the difference in the V7II . So are they like pulling the gauges on the earlier bikes ? If so I amend my time estimate to 45 minutes .
Dusty
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The problem can not be easily resolved, due to time and distance issues. It is a 6-7 hour drive each way from my house. That is the closest dealer.
There is no other motivation. What possibly could it be? I discovered the issue last night, posted in anger about it, finally talked to the dealer, decided to let it ride. The only reason I post photos as proof is by request and there is an undercurrent that something sinister is going on. Get real. I have nothing to gain by this.
Granted, this whole thing is pretty damn weird. I truly wish it had never happened.
Well we all wish it had not happened . However it really isn't hard to fix , anyone who can use a computer should not have any trouble .
Dusty
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If you are south of MI, a short trip gets you close by, I'll help you get the forks set the way you want. Just cause I don't wrench my bikes anymore doesn't mean I can't. I have the equip and space. Ride it here, fly it back. :grin:
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seems like You guys are being SLIGHTLY hard on the OP. He admits to not wanting to do the job or not qualified.. and he has a point, the stock configuration should be what got delivered and it was not..
I've met Dave and agree he's one of the good guys but someone messed with this bike before delivery and the OP has a right to get pissed off about it..
we should all chill a few days and see what follows.. everyone out there might not be like you who can spend endless hours in the garage wrenching, or endless time giving internet advice..
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-mzCXtmj/1/XL/Duck-XL.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Guzzi/i-mzCXtmj/A)
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Well now, that was entertaining to say the least.
Just to muck up the waters a bit more I believe the OP mentioned to me in a seat conversation that his weight was in the 295 range.
If so it would sure seem that a complete suspension overhaul would be in order. I've never seen a bike leave any factory sprung for that weight. Now we all know stock the V7 may be a tad oversprung but I'd be impressed if the stock springs were specked for that kind of chassis input.
I'll apologize in advance if I have the weight incorrect.
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No attempt from me to be hard on the OP . WG tends to be solution oriented , and since the OP has a problem and is unable to make the trip to Seattle , well , what is the answer ?
Dusty
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So... MI didn't mess with it. You've agreed to deal with it as you may. Did you talk to Dave about his experience with forks up through like they are on the V7? He could probably give you some insight. Where I would go from here is ride both bikes and determine yourself what you like. I wouldn't look at it as a negative and keep your eyes open to the possibility you might like it better. I'm almost certain I would, but that's me. Spend some time with it and report back with your findings. Many folks do this sort of mod so learn from it.
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I agree that he probably shouldn't mess with it. You have to get a jack under the sump and get the front wheel up off the ground. You know what that can do to the stability of the bike. Does he know how to properly tie down a bike or have a means to tie it to?? I would not want to do this job out of the box having never done it before. How easily do they slide through the clamps? I have stories about that!! So yes... basically he will have to pay someone to do the job realistically if he wants it back full up. This is why I suggest riding it and see what you think. I've never felt "twitchiness" from a lowered small block. It's always felt more planted to me. My $.02
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I agree that he probably shouldn't mess with it. You have to get a jack under the sump and get the front wheel up off the ground.
You can adjust the tubes one at a time, without jacking the bike. It's really not a big deal, and anyone with a basic set of metric allen keys could do the job in well under an hour. I've adusted tubes up and down on several bikes over the years by this method.
I understand and empathize with the OP, and recommend he pay the nearest Guzzi shop and hour of time to "fix" the "problem".
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When my Stone was in at MI for its 600 mile service, the mechanics strongly recommended lowering the front slightly - as in this example.
I was surprised to feel a difference right away (I previously posted about it). It improved the handling of the bike. I'd recommend it.
If the shop did it, it would have been done as a former of extra customer service beyond what would normally be expected. Too bad the OP wasn't consulted nor had the chance to try the bike before and after the adjustments. But my guess is that he would have appreciated the difference.