Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: n3303j on May 27, 2016, 01:03:29 AM
-
My bike has the P8 ECU that is half covered by the rear seat. I'd really like to get rid of the rear seat. Anything I can do to relocate (or swap for a smaller unit) the ECU so I can leave off the rear seat?
-
Replace the battery with a narrow one, and put the P8 beside it. :boozing:
-
Sure.
The efi harness is a stand-alone set of wires that connects to the main wiring harness at a relay, a fuse, and some grounds. So if you cut the efi part out of a Jackal (or other 15M) harness and lay it alongside your P8 wiring yu can plug it all in and put the tiny 15M ecu wherever it's handy. The harness is on ebay for $50 or less all the time. Many bikes use the 15M ecu, including guzzi and ducati. So it also can be found on the used market.
-
Sure.
The efi harness is a stand-alone set of wires that connects to the main wiring harness at a relay, a fuse, and some grounds. So if you cut the efi part out of a Jackal (or other 15M) harness and lay it alongside your P8 wiring yu can plug it all in and put the tiny 15M ecu wherever it's handy. The harness is on ebay for $50 or less all the time. Many bikes use the 15M ecu, including guzzi and ducati. So it also can be found on the used market.
If you have a link to one for that price, let me know. The ones I found are $200 and up.
-
Replace the battery with a narrow one, and put the P8 beside it. :boozing:
this is very simple to do. get an Oddesey .
-
Sure.
The efi harness is a stand-alone set of wires that connects to the main wiring harness at a relay, a fuse, and some grounds. So if you cut the efi part out of a Jackal (or other 15M) harness and lay it alongside your P8 wiring yu can plug it all in and put the tiny 15M ecu wherever it's handy. The harness is on ebay for $50 or less all the time. Many bikes use the 15M ecu, including guzzi and ducati. So it also can be found on the used market.
I like that option, then you would also be able to use Guzzidiag
My EV had the ECU slotted in beside a fairly large AGM battery.
-
Easy. Might have to undo the brackets so you can move the wire harness. Stock harness and ecu drop in the compartment alongside an Odyssey 680 battery. ecu doesn't have a gravity sensor so it doesn't care about orientation. I added the rubber sheeting just to help insure rain and wash water can't get in too easily. Done.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/EV/MVC-388X_zps65c34701.jpg)
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
-
If you have a link to one for that price, let me know. The ones I found are $200 and up.
I don't know where you shop, but I have never seen that wiring harness anywhere near $200.
Here -- how many do you need under $100?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/01-Moto-Guzzi-California-1100-Special-wire-wiring-harness-loom-/401029592332?hash=item5d5f39f50c:g:M6wAAOSw4UtWTk6G&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-V11-EV-wiring-harness-/271791022077?hash=item3f4801dffd:g:NRUAAOSwrklU8qMS&vxp=mtr
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2002-Moto-Guzzi-California-Stone-Main-Wire-Wiring-Harness-Loom-/380819425290?hash=item58aa9b480a:g:oQkAAOxycmBS1~f8&vxp=mtr
Here's a dandy for $45.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/99-Moto-Guzzi-V11-V-11-1100-V1100-Bassa-wire-wiring-harness-loom-/272196039498?hash=item3f6025f34a:g:QssAAOSwGYVW~o0L&vxp=mtr
ECU's can have all sorts of mappings depending on what it was programmed for. I've had them marked 'cali,' 'lemans', 'ev'. There are others. One trick is to find a reasonably priced ecu with a yummy map.
-
An ECU is NOT a wiring harness. Do you have a link to the smaller ECU for $50.00?
-
Golly -- I checked, and you're right. An ECU is NOT a wiring harness. How did that slip by me, and what's your point?
-
Sure.
The efi harness is a stand-alone set of wires that connects to the main wiring harness at a relay, a fuse, and some grounds. So if you cut the efi part out of a Jackal (or other 15M) harness and lay it alongside your P8 wiring yu can plug it all in and put the tiny 15M ecu wherever it's handy. The harness is on ebay for $50 or less all the time. Many bikes use the 15M ecu, including guzzi and ducati. So it also can be found on the used market.
In addition you have to change out the cam gear for a newer one + the toothed timing wheel that sits behind the gear from a 15M bike. Also the P8 engines right hand head doesn't have the mount point for the temperature sensor.
And don't use a Ducati ECU they don't have the air pressure sensor in the ECU like Moto Guzzi does.
With all that said when I upgraded my '96 cali to a 15M it was like getting a new bike. It ran 100% better than it ever did with the P8. With a huge boost in toque from 2500 to 5000 rpms. And the seating position, with a newer seat that lets you sit back without being pushed forward is the best.
And now with Guzzidiag if you have after-market exhaust you can flash the 15M as many times as you want for the cost of the ECU adapter.
-
In addition you have to change out the cam gear for a newer one + the toothed timing wheel that sits behind the gear from a 15M bike. Also the P8 engines right hand head doesn't have the mount point for the temperature sensor.
And don't use a Ducati ECU they don't have the air pressure sensor in the ECU like Moto Guzzi does.
With all that said when I upgraded my '96 cali to a 15M it was like getting a new bike. It ran 100% better than it ever did with the P8. With a huge boost in toque from 2500 to 5000 rpms. And the seating position, with a newer seat that lets you sit back without being pushed forward is the best.
And now with Guzzidiag if you have after-market exhaust you can flash the 15M as many times as you want for the cost of the ECU adapter.
Hmmm. We must be talking about two different things. My P8-to-15M conversion was done on a '98. It went as I outlined in my previous post -- none of this extra stuff you're discussing. Was yours originally a P8, or was it a carbie?
The temp sensor is in the valve cover with the P8, but it's there.
The P8 I converted ('98) had a phonic wheel (the toothed wheel behind the cam gear) and cam position sensor. That part was plug-n-play -- no need to open the timing cover at all. I double-checked with the manual, and it shows what I remember.
The Ducati 15M ecu's I've used have been identical to guzzi in every way that I can tell except the label and the mapping. They all have the little rubber plug thingie for the barometer.
-
I appreciate all the input.
So if I have this right I can get rid of my giant battery and move my Big P8 module into the battery box and remove my rear seat.
OR
I can modify my harness, find a smaller ECU, open up my engine, swap a number of parts, reassemble my engine then I can remove my rear seat.
Seems like an easy choice for me.
-
No, there's no opening up the engine if you have a cam position sensor up there near the oil pressure switch. The 15M used the same, but fewer sensors as the P8 I converted. There may have been a plug end I needed to splice in fro mthe old harness for some reason -- it's been 10 years since I did it and some details are fuzzy. But if you have a temp sensor in the valve cover and a cam sensor in the engine case all you need is the ecu and wiring harness stuff as I already described, and an afternoon to slap it together. You come away with a smaller, more sophisticated ecu placed wherever you want it, for the same effort as relocating the P8. And you get to keep your battery and sell off the P8 to offset the cost of conversion.
Now if you don't have the sensors you might come out ahead with the relocation plan. Me, I like the 15M so much better than most of the ecus out there that I'd do the swap even if I had to do the cam stuff Rainman was talking about.
-
I stand corrected. It appears there was a change from the
'96 '97 an earlier P8's to '97 '98 and up ones. The '97 '98 and newer ones wouldn't need the cam gear swapped out for newer parts like I had to do.
-
Thanks for double-checking. I was beginning to think I'd crossed some wires somewhere . . . :boozing:
-
When a bike has a p7 or p8, there will be two sensors, one on flywheel and one at cam. When converting to 15m, the flywheel sensor isn't needed anymore. and the cam sensor needs a phonic wheel mounted. Because the phonic wheel is 5mm thick need to change the chain gear of take 5mm off it.
For the wire loom, you don't need a new one, just source a 26 pin superseal that goes in the 15m. Cutoff the big plug and get the new one on. Study an eavening on the wire diagram new and old and you know what goes where.
-
Now if you don't have the sensors you might come out ahead with the relocation plan. Me, I like the 15M so much better than most of the ecus out there that I'd do the swap even if I had to do the cam stuff Rainman was talking about.
Again, does anyone have a link for the 15M that is less than $200.00?
-
Again, does anyone have a link for the 15M that is less than $200.00?
Ebay is full of them.
-
Ebay is full of them.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-V11-Sport-CDI-Blackbox-ECU-IAW15M-C5-/282050267524?hash=item41ab818984:g:u3YAAOSwBnVW9EU2&vxp=mtr
For $50.00??
-
You're the only one saying an ecu can be had for $50, so you're arguing with yourself. Leave me out of it.
-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Moto-Guzzi-V11-Sport-CDI-Blackbox-ECU-IAW15M-C5-/282050267524?hash=item41ab818984:g:u3YAAOSwBnVW9EU2&vxp=mtr
For $50.00??
RK said the HARNESS can be had for under $50 -
NOT the ECU!
Maurie.
-
http://www.ebay.com/itm/DUCATI-Monster-CDI-/251564950923
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2000-DUCATI-MONSTER-900-ECU-COMPUTER-CONTROLLER-UNIT-BOX-ECM-CDI-/291755664739
-
Good information here. I think this is just what I need for my '96 Cali.
-
I will ad that as far as I know the 15m ecu will not run the tach that was on the p8 bikes. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think it'a a different part #.
-
My solution was to get a Ned's seat, leave the P8 where it was and get the special Power Commander and harness from Todd. Bike ran strong and I could ride the bike all day without discomfort. More than one way to skin a cat.
Pete
-
The issue I am having with my '96 Cali is that, for seemingly no reason whatsoever, one cylinder would quit working. After a few seconds to minutes it would kick back in, without a bang. Which leads me to believe I have an intermittent connection in the injection harness. I can usually get it to kick back in by pulling the clutch in and let the bike idle for a bit.
I figured a harness with the big ass connector would be expensive or not available. Changing over to the 15M harness might be less expensive AND better.
A fellow at the New Cumberland rally suggested Seafoam which I'm going to try first.
Until I get this reliability issue figured out that bike is going to be a garage queen.
-
The issue I am having with my '96 Cali is that, for seemingly no reason whatsoever, one cylinder would quit working. After a few seconds to minutes it would kick back in, without a bang. Which leads me to believe I have an intermittent connection in the injection harness. I can usually get it to kick back in by pulling the clutch in and let the bike idle for a bit.
I figured a harness with the big ass connector would be expensive or not available. Changing over to the 15M harness might be less expensive AND better.
A fellow at the New Cumberland rally suggested Seafoam which I'm going to try first.
Until I get this reliability issue figured out that bike is going to be a garage queen.
Pull the connectors off the injectors and make sure the contacts are seated all the way in. I had one move back and only made intermittent contact.
Pete
-
I'll do that.
One question not asked. My TPS is the big one that's about the size of a hockey puck. Is the connector the same or would I need to replace the TPS too?
-
I vaguely remember something about the tps. That might be where I needed to splice in a connector from the old harness.
It was a long time ago that I did this. If someone wants to make their rig available, I'll come to your house and do it again to document it.
-
I have a Ducati 15M ECU I will sell for $50 dollars but it won't work for any Guzzi. When plugged in and connected to Guzzidiag there is no air pressure reading. Because Ducati Monster's have the air pressure sender in the in the air box. As I remember I had loaded a Guzzi map on it. But it was a couple of years ago.
-
Your 15m, is that an 15m a8? I have a friend who has a monster900 ecu and he told me all worked.
-
I have personally seen no differences between a 15M for guzzi and for ducati except the mapping and labeling. In addition, I've done some looking, and I have not seen picture of a ducati ecu that did not have the round rubber cover in the casing that hides the sensor. The barometer is part of the 15M design. If they didn't have it it wouldn't be a 15M it would be something else. If there is an "A8" or other variant out there without a barometer I have not seen it All the labeled variants I have seen indicated rev levels and map type. That certainly doesn't mean it's NOT out there, just that nobody has produced one for me to look at. If someone could post pics of a 15M that does not have the barometer cover on the case it would help my education. :)
-
Your 15m, is that an 15m a8? I have a friend who has a monster900 ecu and he told me all worked.
My Ducati ECU is a 15M A0 out of a Super Sport 750 circa 1998?
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eSTyBF/MONSTER_15_M_AO_F.png) (http://ibb.co/eSTyBF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dKsEka/MONSTER_15_M_AO_B.png) (http://ibb.co/dKsEka)
...In addition, I've done some looking, and I have not seen picture of a ducati ecu that did not have the round rubber cover in the casing that hides the sensor...
At the time I looked and remember it as this Ducati having a air pressure sensor in the air box.
Maybe the barometer is disabled with software? It Would make some sense to put the air sensor in the air box to compensate for the pressure drop across the air filter as it changes when it gets plugged up with dust.
I'll test it again when I get into the Quota this weekend.
I seem to remember reading before Guzzidiag came along :boozing: that Guzzitech would no longer flash Ducati ECU's for use in Guzzi's because of problems.
It seems to me that Guzzidiag only has access to part of the ECU's memory or there are variations to different sub models.
When the '12 Stelvio was under warranty I found a '12 Norge dual O2 enabled ECU to use a so as not to tamper with the original one.
It worked ok when flashed with the Stelvio maps but the traction control didn't seem to work anymore with the Norge ECU.
-
With Marelli, if the hardware ID is the same, the difference between the norge and stelvio could only be software. Since then there is added an eeprom reader writer, maybe the traction control saves there something that isn't in the norge eeprom part? EEPROM memory is used to save things that change like learned lambda compensation, errors and more.
-
These 15M's don't speak lambda or traction control. Very basic -- almost crude. That's why I prefer them for my projects.
-
@ Rainman; I sent you a message. Perhaps someone here can answer. My Guzzi is a 1998 California 1100. Will Rainman's ECU work with my bike?
-
We've got some differing opinions of that. See if he'll send it to someone with the guzzi reflash stuff and have it mapped for your bike. then try it. It would help everyone involved with the topic to have a definitive answer, and the guy mapping it is the one who can tell us if it worked or not.
-
The issue I am having with my '96 Cali is that, for seemingly no reason whatsoever, one cylinder would quit working. After a few seconds to minutes it would kick back in, without a bang. Which leads me to believe I have an intermittent connection in the injection harness. I can usually get it to kick back in by pulling the clutch in and let the bike idle for a bit.
I figured a harness with the big ass connector would be expensive or not available. Changing over to the 15M harness might be less expensive AND better.
A fellow at the New Cumberland rally suggested Seafoam which I'm going to try first.
Until I get this reliability issue figured out that bike is going to be a garage queen.
I tried the Seafoam last week and the bike rode fine for 50 or so miles. I texted a friend that I had cured the problem. Must have jinxed the fix for it came back with a vengeance the next day. Last night I pulled the injector connectors. There was some corrosion so I cleaned them with Caig Deoxit and reassembled. Will ride it this afternoon and hope for the best.
-
could also be sparks missing. You know two things are needed: fuel and sparks.
-
I've had to clean off the pins on the 2 connectors going in & out of the spark control units.
Black carbon stuff on them. Worth a look.
-
I've had it falter ignitionwise before and the ignition would usually come on with a BANG. Presently, this bike would run on one cylinder for up to 5 minutes and then come back like nothing happened. I certainly HOPE I've found this annoying culprit.
-
The issue I am having with my '96 Cali is that, for seemingly no reason whatsoever, one cylinder would quit working. After a few seconds to minutes it would kick back in, without a bang. Which leads me to believe I have an intermittent connection in the injection harness. I can usually get it to kick back in by pulling the clutch in and let the bike idle for a bit.
I figured a harness with the big ass connector would be expensive or not available. Changing over to the 15M harness might be less expensive AND better.
A fellow at the New Cumberland rally suggested Seafoam which I'm going to try first.
Until I get this reliability issue figured out that bike is going to be a garage queen.
check the ignitor box connectors under the left side cover.
-
It would seem my hopes were dashed last weekend. The injection faltering has come back. I either did not do a good enough job with the Deoxit or I've been pursuing the wrong wild goose.
-
My 98 EV had the crappy carbon core HT leads, one of those lost contact at the coil end and it started missing on one cylinder because it had to jump the gap inside core
An easy test is take your multimeter and check the resistance from the plug cap to chassis from memory about 8,000 Ohms on both sides, if one side is open check the leads.
Make sure the leads are not in touch with anything metallic, it could also be arcing to chassis.
The bike should not have carbon core leads AND resistor caps
-
Again, there is no BANG when the cylinder comes back on line which leads me to believe it is a FUEL situation.
-
Check the leads just to humour me!
The injectors are fed from the ECU relay terminal 87 and wire to terminals 33 & 35 of the ECU you can remove the shell off the ECU connector to probe it.
From the ECU relay to 33 and 35 should be exactly the same on both sides 19 Ohms I think
Inspect the connector pins, it only takes a small resistance to mess that up.
It could be a fault inside the ECU like a cracked circuit board, nothing that can't be rectified.
This document is worth it's weight in Gold for the P8 ECU and mostly applies to the 15M as well
http://www.guzziclub.fi/images/pdf/tekniikkapalsta/efiman.pdf
-
The issue I am having with my '96 Cali is that, for seemingly no reason whatsoever, one cylinder would quit working. After a few seconds to minutes it would kick back in, without a bang. Which leads me to believe I have an intermittent connection in the injection harness. I can usually get it to kick back in by pulling the clutch in and let the bike idle for a bit.
This sounds like the problem I have been having with my 98EV with the P8 ECU system.
So I have a couple of questions.
Was this problem ever resolved for twhitaker?
I like the bike, just not the P8 ECU system.
Like rodekyll stated earlier, I like the 15M ECU systems the best. Still simple, reliable and easy to use and well supported with Guzzidiag. So I was also contemplating switching out the P8 for the 15M.
I would like to switch out the ECU and ignition system including coils and possibly other components. I have access to a whole complete wire harness and all the attached components so I would
rather do a more complete swap than just cut the P8 ecu connector off and splice in a 15M ecu connector.
Has anybody done this? If so, what issues will I be dealing with?
-
You can swap them out w/wiring harness. The P8 uses the oil temp on valve cover, the 15M uses cyl head temp w/temp sensor on inside of head. Other sensors are bout the same. The looms are different, swap the whole loom is easiest.
-
I know there are a lot of smart people here, I would think someone could come up with a connector type thingy that would make it a plug and play.
Wouldn't that be possible?
-
The 15M also uses different timing. Only uses 1 pick-up for cam sensor. P8 uses 2 of them, 1 on cam & 1 on crank(knobs on flywheel. I would see if it's same tone wheel and sensor. P8 plug has over 30pins, 15M has many less..
-
Golly -- I checked, and you're right. An ECU is NOT a wiring harness. How did that slip by me, and what's your point?
I have an ECU that I'll sell you for $100.
Rich A
-
A P8 or 15M?
-
Perhaps?
http://www.myecu.biz/MyECU/index.htm
-
A P8 or 15M?
15M
Rich
-
Which model it come from? I won't be looking for a bit. I have a stock P8 & a MyECU for my 98.
-
On a P8 ecu 22 of 35 total pins are used. 2 pins go to the air pressure sensor which is on board on the 15M and 2 pins go to the crank phase sensor which is also not used on a 15M.
On a 15M ecu 20 of 26 total pins are used.
Diagrams,
http://dpguzzi.com/cal1100i.pdf (http://dpguzzi.com/cal1100i.pdf)
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2000_Bassa.gif (http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2000_Bassa.gif)
-
Which model it come from? I won't be looking for a bit. I have a stock P8 & a MyECU for my 98.
MYECU easy to install? Happy with the overall results?
-
MYECU easy to install? Happy with the overall results?
If you don't want to be involved it's not your cup of thee.
With the Standard Marelli ecu anyone can help.
-
MyECU does make you involved w/it. Mine is set-up for plug & play. I can go back & forth w/o changing anything. That all changes w/you tune the bike, move the idle stop and you calibrate the TPS position. You just enter a set of numbers.
My issue is I started from scratch cause not too many folks have this on a California model. Cliff runs an O2 closed loop and mine is open loop and wide open intake & exhaust. I hate crunching numbers. I went back and converted stock maps to different software. Mine works very well, but it's sorted.
What I like is you can change it live while it's running. It's the Ultimate if you like this sort of thing.
-
I'll do that.
One question not asked. My TPS is the big one that's about the size of a hockey puck. Is the connector the same or would I need to replace the TPS too?
just put the right connector on the loom. The connector on the big p9 tps is called Timer from AMP/Tyco. Its an universal automotive connector.