Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Moto on May 29, 2016, 12:35:13 PM
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Pardon me if I'm just showing my lack of experience, but this question has been preying on me for years.
I believe Sears Roebuck just put 16 and 18mm wrenches into the collection they sold me 45 years ago so they could claim more wrenches in the kit to boost sales.
Am I wrong? Paranoid? Both? Thanks for taking time to set me straight. Explanations of where these unicorns were found would be welcome.
Moto
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When a 19 mm bolt has been tightened to 100 Ft lbs by the previous owner take an 18 MM wrench and fling it across the garage while cursing them and their ignorant precedents. You will need the 19 MM to undo the bolt and the 18 mm can be retrieved when you clean the garage later.
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I believe the 16m and 18m wrenches are purpose built for their aerodynamic qualities and are the wrench of choice to fling across the garage when things are going badly.
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I've needed a 16mm three or four times in my 67 years. So, yes.......they really do make nuts and bolts in that size. I don't recall ever running into an 18mm. It's always been a 17mm or 19mm.
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Never on a Guzzi, but my wife's old Saturn had used them both I think.
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I have both the Craftsman 6 and 12 pt. metric wrenches . Now that you mention it, I can't recall having used either one, either. Maybe I will just pull them both and store them away.
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Hmm , W/O checking , seems the nuts that secure the foot pegs onto the lower motor mount stud on airhead beemers is 18 MM . Maybe :laugh:
Dusty
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Used on 16mm film cameras I believe.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/bolex-h16-eoshd_zpsswhlmdpl.jpg)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/18mm-f35-KEN_4549_zpsbdtmwpmc.jpg)
:grin:
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18mm for GM and Ford suspension components starting in the late 70s. 16mm for Ducatis and occasionally some others. I have worn out some 18mm wrenches and impact sockets!
Brian
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I used to work on European industrial equipment and seemed they liked to use all the metric sizes they could, just to keep the tool makers in buisiness.
Motorcycles, not so much.
Paul B. :boozing:
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Some Asian bikes use 16&18mm nuts on dual shock mounts. They also come in handy when an SAE bikt or nut is stripped or not sized just so and you need a real tight fitting wrench.
Get rid of them, you'll then find the need for them.
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Ducati bevel cylinder head nuts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ducati-Torque-Wrench-Tool-Cylinder-Head-750-860-900-1000-SS-Darmah-GT-bevel-16MM-/181980086969?hash=item2a5edbc2b9:g:AHsAAOSwofxUdOO6
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I've been an engine builder and auto mechanic all my life. I use them both-the 16 a lot and the 18 frequently enough to have open,box and socket types and in both six and twelve point. It's a curse. :evil:
Terry
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Thanks to the ISO (International Organization for Standardization) we have new standards, in Germany it changed from DIN 934 to DIN EN ISO 4032. Beside further changes, the wrench size of M 10 nuts/screws changed from 17 to 16 and M12 from 19 to 18 mm. At work I already have to deal with this.....great idea ! So don't throw your 16 and 18mm wrenches too far away :grin:
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Bumper bolts on most modern cars. They really delight in odd sizes like 16 and 18mm in places where you can't actually see the bolt head to figure out why the 15, 17, and 19 don't work. I used 18mm bumper bolts (with an odd thread) to fasten my trike chassis to the frame.
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ALL the wrenches...ALL the time.... :thumb:
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About as often as the 5.5mm and 7mm allen keys that are in every set... :undecided:
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I have stubby metric wrenches from 10 mm to 19 mm and they all get used on my stuff, some being Italian scooters. I have a # of bigger metric sockets too that are required for same equipment including various Guzzis. Same thing with very small & large allen head sockets.
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Several GM products use both sizes. The 18mm more than the 16. One place that I remember was in the brake caliper area.
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I regularly help my son out in his power steering and wheel alignment business. European cars, especially Mercedes, put them all around the body and rack mounts. Real pain in the fundamental orifice. :evil:
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Peugeot 505 starter motor had 16mm and someone had
stuck an old Witworth clamp on the exhaust!!
I know I've used the 18mm - can't remember where.
Maurie.
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:boxing:
About as often as the 5.5mm and 7mm allen keys that are in every set... :undecided:
5.5mm in every set but not 7mm
changing bremo pads. 1 1/2 hours to find the 7mm, 15 min to do the job.
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18mm open end wrench needed for the hose fitting on the 98EV. This is the gas line that return unused fuel to the tank.
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My Japanese tractor has some 18mm bolts.
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Something on my son's BMW 650GS. Spark plug? Had to buy the socket solely for that task.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Ducati bevel cylinder head nuts.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ducati-Torque-Wrench-Tool-Cylinder-Head-750-860-900-1000-SS-Darmah-GT-bevel-16MM-/181980086969?hash=item2a5edbc2b9:g:AHsAAOSwofxUdOO6
Crowfoot, brother Joe. :grin:
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I needed two 18mm wrenches today, the signal light body lock nuts used on the Aprilia signals on my 750S are 18mm.
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Peugeot 505 starter motor had 16mm and someone had
stuck an old Witworth clamp on the exhaust!!
I know I've used the 18mm - can't remember where.
Maurie.
Yes, Peugeot uses odd sizes. I guess it's a French thing. I worked on my dad's growing up. Frustrating.
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My Mercedes has required a couple of, seldom if ever, sizes like those.
Also they can make a fine Whit-proximate alternative. :evil:
Todd.
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Several GM products use both sizes. The 18mm more than the 16. One place that I remember was in the brake caliper area.
Yup, I was fixing a leaky caliper on a 35 yr old Corvette last week.
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Yes on both sizes can't remember where I needed them now but I have both now. what about 9mm an 11mm another size I have used maybe once. Dan
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9 and 11 are VERY common. Not like 13 or 10 though.
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In my early days as an import car mechanic, 9, 16 and 18 mm wrenches were not included in Snap-On sets. In the 80s when the American car companies switched from inches to metric, 16, 18 and 20 mm became more common. It's funny how, depending on country of origin, hex sizes differ on the same size bolts. For example, an 8 mm bolt on a European vehicle has a 13 mm head, while the Japanese use a 12 mm. On a 10 mm bolt, most Europeans have a 17 mm head while the Japs use a 14 but, and the Americans use a 16mm. I've found a lot of use for an 11 mm on Swedish cars but, they use 7 mm bolts instead of 6 mm.
My question was, when I bought my first Craftsman tool kit upon entering trade school, why was there a 25/64" open end wrench included? Probably so 20 years later I could cut it up, weld a 1 1/16" socket to it and make a Guzzi 5 speed special tool. I'm sure that's what Sears had in mind.
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Yes, Peugeot uses odd sizes. I guess it's a French thing. I worked on my dad's growing up. Frustrating.
Yep - 9's & 11's too. Still - you didn't have to do that much
that often, the 504/5's were tough buggers.
Maurie.
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Just used 18mm on a 2000 Volvo suspension last week
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VW uses a lot of 16 and 18mm sizes.
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I use my 16 mm when I cannot find my 5/8" socket and use my 18mm when I cannot find my 11/16" socket although 18 to 11/16 is just a little loose.
Same for 13 mm to 1/2" and 10mm to 3/8". My tool box is hit or miss when looking for something.
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Years ago I bought a set of wrenches that had a 6 point socket on one end while the other was an open end wrench. They were beautiful and strong and very handy. However, even though the had both 16mm and 18mm sizes, there was no 14mm wrench in the set. Thinking this was an omission, I went to the store and looked at those wrenches again. None of them had a 14mm wrench in them. I think the people who made them hated Japanese machinery as 14m is extermely common on Japanese stuff, whereas many European machines go from 13 to 15 with no use of 14mm fasteners. I found it impossible to obtain a 14mm wrench with the socket open end style.
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Well, live and learn. I'll look at my 16 and 18mm's with new respect from now on. Sears too.
Thanks for the replies.
Moto
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Germany, heavily endowed with mineral resources, used 10, 13, 15, and 17mm bolt heads because iron ore and smelting was cheap.
Japan does not have their own mineral resources. They have to import. They save millions of pounds of iron and significant weight per vechicle by reducing the head sizes from 13-> 12, 15->14, etc.
11mm is hugely common on small hydraulics like brakes and fuel. It's also a very direct fit to 7/16. So it's one place you can carry a single wrench for two fits.
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Yes on both sizes can't remember where I needed them now but I have both now. what about 9mm an 11mm another size I have used maybe once. Dan
Ever adjusted your Guzzi foot brake for height? From memory, V7 foot brake is a 9mm.
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I remember 11 mm and 16 mm not being in the set and not that common. I believe 11 mm was equal to 7/16" and 16 mm was equal to 5/8" so years I never had them in my set. But I do now!
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If I'm not mistaken, my '87 XL600 required a deep 18mm socket for the spark plug...
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Used 2 18mm sockets on the nuts used by the OEM centerstand to get the rear end of my V11 up.
Was a lot easier to get them captured.
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Spark plugs in the "C" range are 16mm or 5/8
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Used 2 18mm sockets on the nuts used by the OEM centerstand to get the rear end of my V11 up.
Was a lot easier to get them captured.
I do exactly the same on my V11 Cafe Sport. Even built a little fixture on my stand to hold the sockets on place.