Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: rodekyll on May 29, 2016, 03:06:25 PM
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We do a lot of whining about lousy motorcycle seats. The problem is that one size doesn't fit all. The automotive industry figured that out a hundred years or so ago. They made their seats adjustable. As time went on, they made them 6-way adjustable. Does anyone know of any motorcycles that have gotten a clue in this regard? Does it make sense?
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Indian Scout - several seat sizes available.
True adjustability, no. It's fairly absurd!
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Indian Scout - several seat sizes available.
True adjustability, no. It's fairly absurd!
Why is an adjustable seat any more absurd than adjustable suspension , or windscreens ?
Dusty
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I think some Beemers have adjustable seats, but, not an on the fly kind of thing.
I am kinda surprised a Gold Wing doesn't have an electric 6 way adjustable seat and back rest :)
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It seems that with uncomfy/Ill-fitting/wrong height/wrong reach saddles out there someone would have figured out how to adjust the fit. Is this a feature people would like on a bike? I think I would. I think it would help out on long days when just a little difference would bring a lot of relief.
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Seems they could put some kind of torsion spring under some of the foam and let you adjust it somewhat like the lumbar support in cars. Even if not electric, a cam sort of affair might do it.
Maybe something like a sleep number bed, call it a seat number. Used the beds for nearly a decade not one leak.
You can pay 400-800 bucks on a seat and all you get is some fancy foam and a couple square feet of leather.
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[snippity]
True adjustability, no. It's fairly absurd!
So if you could get a king/queen seat for your Tonti that had three inches of rise and tilt you wouldn't be interested?
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I think it is a great idea, changing the incline of the seat by lifting or lowering the back of the seat should be easy and could make a lot of difference in riding position and comfort. I would like to try that.
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It seems that with uncomfy/Ill-fitting/wrong height/wrong reach saddles out there someone would have figured out how to adjust the fit. Is this a feature people would like on a bike? I think I would. I think it would help out on long days when just a little difference would bring a lot of relief.
Certainly doable....a few inches up/down and forward/back would be massively helpful.
at some point there needs to be a movement...kinda like the "Alice's restaurant anti-massacre movement" more than just a few Guzzi wing-nuts...start a pole then send it off to Mandello...I'm in.
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I think some Beemers have adjustable seats, but, not an on the fly kind of thing.
My R1150RT had a 3-way seat height adjustment. Not adjustable on the fly, but easily done in about 30 seconds when stopped. Like my car, once I set it, I never adjusted it again. Fore and aft in 3 steps might be nice as well. The seat-tank gap might be a problem.
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I think an adjustable seat is an intriguing idea. If you used a pump, fluid and a "switch" to direct the fluid, could have pistons for height & fore/aft movement of the larger seating surface & bladders for finer adjustments.
Hm.
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RK , can we have an option for a pillion ejector seat :shocked: :laugh: :laugh:
Dusty
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Save for the big touring bikes, it seems to me the majority of seats are designed to look good for that particular bike; if it just happens that it is comfortable for some people it pure accident.
I get a lot of flack for the Russell Day Long on the Griso as it does not look all that attractive, so the manufactures are not wrong for giving the buying public good looking but shitty to sit on seats.
But it sure would be nice to move the industry to adjustable seats, but in my lifetime? :popcorn:
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Rboe -- that's exactly the problem. Nobody who ever designed a seat had to sit on one. It's like designing a car that's one big blind spot.
I generally make my own seats and they're some ugly damn things. But they get me through 1000 mile days. In my opinion if I can't see the ugly, it's not there.
Sturgeon -- how did your bmw seat work?
Mgpilot -- why fluid?
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The seat to tank gap isn't too much to overcome, have the seat overlap a bit so that moving fore or aft a little doesn't create one.
More and more bikes are coming with adjustable bars, seats and foot rests.
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I think adjustability is the key to long distance comfort, and also a marketing device that nobody is really using. If Guzzi made fully adjustable ergos part of their deal it would set them apart at a meaningful level.
One purpose of this topic is to identify other bikes with adjustable seats and how they work. So far we have
BMW
unnamed others
Can we fill this list?
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I still wanna know if we can have an ejection pillion seat option ?
Dusty
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No, I think those handles on the right bar end has the pillion ejection covered. I've dumped passengers on both takeoff and landing with the oem stuff. :grin:
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The FJR has had an adjustable seat since 2006.
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Triumph tiger 800 seat is adjustable for height
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This helps. Can you folks describe HOW these seats are adjustable?
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This helps. Can you folks describe HOW these seats are adjustable?
Most of them just use notched gates and locating pegs .
Dusty
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I got hold of a late 90s Ford Explorer. I threw away everything that didn't look like power seat stuff and ended up with a servo package 8" wide X10" long X2.25 tall in one pile, and doors, axles, engine, hood, and other uneccessary stuff in another pile. Next time I might try for just the seat . . .
In a 2-up Jackal seat the power base fits nicely in the space the fender would occupy. Since I have no rear fender there it hides nicely.
In that space I could get three motors, but only two worm gears. So I have electric rise and front/rear tilt. Fore and aft are more cumbersome -- the rider has to loosen the mount bolts and slide the seat manually.
If I could get some really small components (I suspect the Ford Explorer is not made of the smallest stuff out there) I could hide it better and maybe even get the fore/aft movement motorized. For right now though, if I can figure out how to keep the nose of the seat from sagging under my weight, I think I have a proof of concept for 'lectric 4-way adjustable Tonti seat. Will hide in a HD better. In a king/queen design it could be completely hidden. For a solo saddle it would go in the radio box.
Anyone familiar enough with power seats to know which ones have narrow channels and tiny actuaries?
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Once adjusted, I rarely move my seat, so I'm wondering if you just need to noodle out a good position then install accordingly.
Or do you still need to adjust it from time to time?
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One more device to go south when something gets wet...You could talk me into manual but motorized I'll pass.
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This helps. Can you folks describe HOW these seats are adjustable?
Exactly this way;
http://www.manualslib.com/manual/660102/Yamaha-Fjr.html?page=34
Seems like you could fab one of these up to work on kther seats. The trick would be also making the seat hold down locking device work with it. Maybe notching the hold down pin so that at various depths the lock would engage?
The pin would need to be longer but so what. You might need to turn whatever key or lever used to unlock the seat for each change in position but again, so what.
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I add sheepskin and gel to my seat which changes my riding height and leaves my grin exposed to bugs. This will return me to that sweet spot behind the windscreen. Also, there are times like in bad rain when I'd just as soon not be so exposed. I can drop height and hide behind the fairing. Traditionally I have to get out of the saddle to loosen up my back and legs about every 45 minutes. Changing the seating position should give me some longer intervals, and with 10 gal fuel on board I could potentially go a long time.
And then there's the part where I don't know what seat height I like on the trike yet. With the roomy floorboards and no need to touch the ground I can set the height anywhere from cruiser to McClellan. This will be handy because the trike sometimes needs more body English to steer -- like high speed twisties -- and that's a taller seat height than my more comfy ride. This is a 2-up seat. I can tilt or raise/drop either end to accommodate the comfort of a pillion.
I just did a fitting to the tonti frame. I need to make some changes to the base plate -- it's flexing. Also the rails extending forward to support the driver portion of the saddle are too light. They also flex when I sit on it and I'm not real big. Somehow in all of this I'd like to make the underseat area more accessible -- some sort of hinged or quick release arrangement. So it's back to the drawing board for some detail work. It should be fully functional in the morning.
I'm going to switch over to my evening task -- soldering LEDs into the dashboard. I should have the dash as complete as it's going to be for the trip tonight -- one more major chore put to rest.
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Exactly this way;
http://www.manualslib.com/manual/660102/Yamaha-Fjr.html?page=34
Seems like you could fab one of these up to work on kther seats. The trick would be also making the seat hold down locking device work with it. Maybe notching the hold down pin so that at various depths the lock would engage?
The pin would need to be longer but so what. You might need to turn whatever key or lever used to unlock the seat for each change in position but again, so what.
Thanks for that. :)
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Treadmills use a small rack and pinion setup to move the walking bed up and down. Seems to be a reliable setup that may lend itself to be reworked. They are small enough although not light. On another thought, I find that my new cars are offering ventilated seats in addition to heat. Seems a lot of comfort may come from seat ventilation if possible. Mike
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Rboe -- that's exactly the problem. Nobody who ever designed a seat had to sit on one. It's like designing a car that's one big blind spot.
I generally make my own seats and they're some ugly damn things. But they get me through 1000 mile days. In my opinion if I can't see the ugly, it's not there.
Sturgeon -- how did your bmw seat work?
Mgpilot -- why fluid?
The R1150RT seat was pretty nice; one of the very few I never modified or replaced to suit me. The seat itself was the OEM 'comfort' model, and was indeed comfortable. Wide, flat across the middle, fairly firm. At 5'10 I'm an average-sized guy that also rides enduros with taller seats, so the height adjustment, which I think was stock, was just a nicety that I set once in the highest position and forgot.
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This helps. Can you folks describe HOW these seats are adjustable?
Mine works as Dusty described ...
Maybe this parts diagram will help
http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/Diagrams/B0002622.png?v=07012015 (http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/fiche/Diagrams/B0002622.png?v=07012015)
Lift the spring-loaded crossbar and insert into one of 3 notches. Large rubber bumpers under the seat sit on one of the steps of the rear parts. The front seat just sits there. The rear seat snaps in behind and locks it all in place (and is not height-adjustable).
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^^^
Jack screw
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I have to say I'd never pay extra for a seat that was adjustable on the fly. Just make it so I can insert or remove spacers to get height and fore/aft where I want it. And make it comfortable. I think most mfgs design seats for looks.
Like RK, I redid my own seat. Changed from a bench to solo, 2x6 shape to tractor shape. Modified the foam for best comfort (firm around the outside and softer under the sit bones). When I shaped it I adjusted the form for where I wanted to sit on the bike (height and fore/aft). Now it is comfortable for long, multiple day trips.
(http://i1083.photobucket.com/albums/j384/portablevcb/guzzi/20160528_142424.jpg)
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^^^
Jack screw
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Right. Jack screw. That's what I'm using. I couldn't remember the term so I said "worm gear".
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Right. Jack screw. That's what I'm using. I couldn't remember the term so I said "worm gear".
And here I thought it was the illegitimate second cousin of the sky hook.
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Right. Jack screw. That's what I'm using. I couldn't remember the term so I said "worm gear".
Just be glad a worm didn't get in your jack or the word screw will drop from your vocabulary. :wink:
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It could make it hard to use the seat, too. :shocked:
It looks good in that you can't see the mechanism, the jack screws and motors work strongly, the platform raises and tits evenly, and the mounting feels solid. I should be able to use it on any tonti frame and currently with any LWB cali saddle (might work on a short one, but I haven't tried yet). I have it bolted up now, but the real deal needs welds. I tried, but my little mig unit won't penetrate this aluminum. I'm going to trade a welder some power tool repair for tacking it together with a bigger machine.
I got a round of primer and sanding done on the tank and fairing. I've handed them off to the 'boss' at the body shop for final spot work and top coating. Except for maybe taping, I'm at the limit of my skills, so I'm getting out of the way. I can't really mount the seat on the trike without the tank to guide the forward travel limit. I'll have a pic or two when that happens.