Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dofin on May 30, 2016, 10:30:18 PM
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Okay, had it 3 months. Oil change and did a valve adjustment. The V7 vibrates worse than my vintage 1976 Suzuki two stroke 500 cc GT500. It was worse before I checked the Valves but still is, in my opinion BAD, at 70 mph (anything over 65 ). Foot pegs are the same. Love the handling but the idea of taking it on a trip over 300 mile seems more like torture.
A bit of history, I've ridden my GT500 1500 mile in 24 hrs(Ironbutt member). Think nothing of doing 800 mile days carrying camping gear. Have a Honda 96 PC800 that is so much better when it comes to vibration. Rode my 1976 Yamaha RD400 from Turkey to Belgium in 1986 in 4 days with tons of crap tied on, still have it, less vibration than the V7. What am I missing??
Previous owner had no complaints! Been told to modify the front forks and shocks, change seat, check air pressure??? Come on guys, fill me in, one guys smooth is anothers jack hammer?? I need to ride another V7 to see if my V7 has a problem? Checked out some magazine write ups and they all seem to think it vibrates but is acceptable? Thanks
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Something is wrong . Is there any strange noise ? Make sure the header pipes aren't touching the frame .
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Check fasteners. Just because they are tight doesn't mean they are tightened properly.
Check under the tank, see if any cables are routed improperly and touching it
Others will add.
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Just some thoughts on vibration, not a "vibrating noise":
Did you buy it new from a dealer? If so, take it to the dealer and present your problem and ask for a test ride on another bike of the same model.
If bought used. Still go to a dealer that has a similar/same model and ask for a test ride. Or, maybe someone on this board is in your area and can take your bike for a ride or vise versa.
It may come down to one persons excessive vibration is anothers normal. Guzzi's do vibrate compared to many other bikes, but not excessively. I feel it's the nature of the engine.
Hope this helps and good luck!
Tom
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First of all, sorry to hear of your problem.
But I think something is wrong with your bike.
I've ridden many a mile on an RD350, various Japaenese inline 4 cylinder 550s, a Suzuki GS1100E, BMW 1200 Twins, BMW Rotax 800 parallel twin, and even a 2005 Yamaha FJR. None were as comfortable as my V7 Stone for long distance riding. And yes, the FJR fans view me as an insane apostate for promulgating that heresy.
I'm not kidding when I say I prefer my V7 Stone to all those others for seriously long distance travel. 800+ miles per day. So I'd check over your Guzzi carefully.
On the other hand, everyone perceives the world slightly differently. So maybe a vibration that I enjoy is perceived as terrible by you.
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Vibrations could be rooted in the throttle bodies not being in sync. Do a TB sync if you're up to it and have the tools.
Changing suspension components won't cure vibrations but it does have the potential to give a better ride. The poor suspension is the Achilles heal of the V7's.
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Vibrations could be rooted in the throttle bodies not being in sync. Do a TB sync if you're up to it and have the tools.
Changing suspension components won't cure vibrations but it does have the potential to give a better ride. The poor suspension is the Achilles heal of the V7's.
There's only ONE TB. Nothing to synch.
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My smallblock v75 will be buzzy and create some vibration if I'm below 3500 in top gear, 5th, and roll on some throttle to go up a hill or pass a car....if I drop a gear, or two, smooths right out...My 5th is a slight overdrive ratio so it needs to be honking to stay there....yeah I can coast on flat road steady 3k, but I'm likely to drop a gear if I need to accel
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For reasons not worth going in to here the ancient two strokes you refer to will of been perceptively smoother, (Until you thrash them!). Most modern four stroke twins are similarly, almost anodyne, in thier power delivery. There are a host of reasons for that but at the end of the day even a smallblock, itself a much smoother engine due to its smaller capacity and weights of components involved, will not be able to match that level of antiseptic, characterless smoothness.
If it's shaking the fillings out of your teeth? Yes, there's something wrong! If you simply mean that it isn't like sitting on a fridge? Well, there's yer problem. It's a development of a mid 1970's engine with essentially mid 1970's engineering principles inside. It's gunna shake a bit!
Being half a world away I can't tell if you have a problem or not. As others have suggested take another one for a ride and see if it is substantially different or take it to a mechanic who knows what he's talking about. If it is deemed 'Normal'? Sell it and buy something boring.
Pete
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Also, it would help if you told us you're location. Hard to help you if we don't know where you are.
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And what RPM range(s). My 2015 tells me it's happy above 4K. No need for 5th until 65mph.
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Upon reading the OP my first thought was to wonder if he was lugging it.
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Huh. I get some weird vibes on my V7 Special if I get around the 6500 mark, but as 130 km/h puts me right around 5000 RPM, I don't have any call to be that high.
I've ridden my V7 2000 km in a weekend, no problems. Something is definitely up with your bike, if it's as bad as you say it is.
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Upon reading the OP my first thought was to wonder if he was lugging it.
At 70 mph?
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Dofin,
My 2013 V7 will get 'buzzy' while in lower gears and higher revs. But on the highway in 5th gear I regularly do 70 - 80 with occasional squirts up to 90+ if needed. Light Buzziness stll occurs past 85ish in top gear. It's annoying enough to not want to cruise along at 85-90. Anyway, the wind also gets uncomfortable at those speeds.
A Marlin Dart windscreen increased comfort at legal highway speeds. Feels like I get up to 80 without really noticing where before I was greated by huge volumes of air making a sail out of my chest... very uncomfortable at 70 or so. Seems I don't notice any significant vibrations either except for that Buzziness I already referenced.
All the best 🐌
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OP, do you have any physical injuries not usually apparent such as from working in the trades? The kind I'm referring to are the slight tingle, occasional numbness in the ha ds and so forth.
That can make certain vibrations intolerable even if others find them soothing.
BTW, that GT500 Suzuki was an exceptional smooth 2 Stoke at most speeds as was the GT380 with those having rubber mounted engines.
I remember trying out my friend's GT380 when he bought it brand new and found that it was much smoother than. My Honda 350/4.
I say this because I doubt you'll get the V7 as smooth as that GT500. If you were comparing the Honda 450/500 dohc twins to the V7 then darn, that would be a real shaker but against the GT500? I doubt it could come close to that. At highway speeds, the GT ought to be pretty smooth if all is maintained and wear items replaced.
If the Suki is bobbing more and more, replace the rubber engine mounts, makes a night and day difference.
Sorry for the off topic stuff.
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My 1TB V7 Special vibrates. I don't believe it's because something is "wrong", just that the engines aren't well balanced.
The big blocks I've had also vibrate at various RPMs, though their vibes have been much more pleasing than on the V7.
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These bikes are pretty buzzy. I found that adding gel insoles in my riding boots helped a lot with the vibrations felt through the pegs, but for me these bikes are not long distance comfortable.
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As another member posted, please tell us where you're located. Someone may live near you who owns so you can get a comparison. Also, which model V7 do you have? Twin throttle bodies or single?
I've owned two V7's and have never experienced what you're describing.
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I've found my V7 to be average in vibrations. Not glass smooth, and not horrible. Average. About what you'd expect for a motorcycle.
In fact, I would even say it's a shade better than most.
But I ride a lot of vintage singles so maybe my perception is off.
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My 13 V7 vibrates more than: my triumph tiger , Triumph thruxton, BMW R80 and up to50 mph more than my 79 triumph Bonneville but a bit less than the BSA B50.
it's not an unreasonable or annoying level but it does shake a bit.
For the first 2000 miles it felt like a big single.
Its pretty good at4000 rpm+.
It's like riding a new 30 year old bike
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At 70 mph?
Well, he DID day anything over 65 and I DID say "WONDER".
I also assume this is a 5-spd V7 and not V7II which would have an effect.
And yeah, 70 would seem to be enough, but maybe he's A REALLY big guy or running steep grades, or maybe pushing a huge windshield....
... then again maybe something is wrong or he is overly sensitive to vibration. But I'd want to rule out the obvious/easy first.
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As another member posted, please tell us where you're located. Someone may live near you who owns so you can get a comparison. Also, which model V7 do you have? Twin throttle bodies or single?
I've owned two V7's and have never experienced what you're describing.
He's got a 1TB like all V7's 13+
Personally I found the 2TB smallblocks I've ridden to be a hair another than the 1TB models.
Then again my 1TB smoothed out a good bit first between break-in and maybe 2-3k miles, but again by 10k+ miles.
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Dofin is not a overly large guy, pretty average height and weight.
Located in Northern Florida
I've talked to him about his issue and test rode my better halfs V7 on a long day to see what I could come up, my opinion is to keep the RPM's up and stay in a lower gear. Running 70-80 mph I was usually in 4th and that seamed to keep the bike happy. It's a mystery to me why he's having his issue when the last owner of the bike had such glowing reviews of this V7 here on WG.
I've been riding with Dofin once a year for a week in the mountains for the last 6-7 years and he's a damned fine rider, smooth and a nice pace all day long. I know he rides further than a lot of people and his arm fatigue on this bike really upsets me. I just wish I lived closer to spend a day or two with the bike to see if we couldn't figure it out.
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Just boght a brand new left over V7 from Kustom Workz near Buffalo NY and totally loving this bike! Have owned many thumpers and Harley's and I find no more vibration in this bike compared to the others. I definitely agree with others you should try another V7 for comparison.
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Just boght a brand new left over V7 from Kustom Workz near Buffalo NY and totally loving this bike! Have owned many thumpers and Harley's and I find no more vibration in this bike compared to the others. I definitely agree with others you should try another V7 for comparison.
For me, it's not so much the amount of vibration, but the type, that's annoying. More buzzy than I prefer. Higher frequency than my other bikes.
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Upon reading the OP my first thought was to wonder if he was lugging it.
:1: Dofin and I have had some communication; afterall, he has my specific former and beloved motorcycle. He is a very nice fellow with some great experience and miles on other brands. Even said, I suggested this exact same thing after he described when and where the vibration is/was occurring. You know, this very thing happened to me when I first started riding Guzzis. I would stick it in top gear and ride along on the highway or long stretches at 65 or even 75. I thought the vibration was really bad. A longtime Guzzi owner suggested I gear down at those speeds. I thought he was nuts. But it worked. Later, I sadly began riding faster instead of gearing down :wink: :sad:
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Sorry for the delay in getting back on the board, had Jury Duty. Thanks so much for the inputs especially for the support from Craig and previous owner bprey. I will find a V7 same year to get a ride on. Problem is I need to be at highway speeds, under 3.5k it is smooth. Not easy to get a test ride at highway speeds.
For those asking about the type of vibration at 70mph 5th gear, There is the Buzz that I find comfortable but the major "thump" in the handle bars at 70 is what is fatiguing and uncomfortable over time. yes it is also in the foot pegs but I am use to that with my GT500 and it is isolated through my foot ware.
I know what you all mean about lugging the engine and the resulting bump/thump and it is similar to the thump at 4K (70mph) and above. Sorry I just cant see running 70 in 4th gear, I did try it and it increases the RPM but the Thump does not go away, even at 80 the disagreeable thump is still there. I only go over 75 when passing and very seldom, I just don't need that, I prefer the twistes and use highways to get to them.
I do have a Guzzi dealer in Pensacola but I feel bit self conscious about buying this V7 from a friend, Craig a Dealer out of town, if I go to the dealer for help. I know the owner and friends with most of the folks in the Dealership so "awkward".
I'm 195lbs, 6ft, l like the seating and handling is fantastic, reminds me of my RD400, V7 way tighter and more flick able in corners, big reasons I am trying to sort it out, I so want to keep it. This is my kind of bike, simple, except for the darn fuel injection, small, light and amazing handling.
I have check the engine mounts, spark plug cables/caps and the other suggested comments. Thanks again for the comments. I think we have hammered this one as much as we can. I will be having the oil checked for possible engine problems.
Speaking of oil problems, after completely draining the oil, replacing oil filter, "measuring" and adding 2 liters of oil, running the engine a few minutes, letting it set for a bit, checked the oil on the wheels straight up and dip stick screwed out, as Guzzi directs in the manual I found the dip stick is grossly out of wack for the hash mark indications of full oil indication!!!! Checking the oil level on the dig stick shows the oil level at about 1/2 inch above the hash marks!!! I put about 1k miles on the bike and checked the oil both on the wheels and on the (add-on) center stand a few times with the same indication, about 1/2 inch above the hash marks. This is crazy and I don't know what folks who don't do their own oil changes think when they check the oil level when the dealer does the service??
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Speaking of oil problems, after completely draining the oil, replacing oil filter, "measuring" and adding 2 liters of oil, running the engine a few minutes, letting it set for a bit, checked the oil on the wheels straight up and dip stick screwed out, as Guzzi directs in the manual I found the dip stick is grossly out of wack for the hash mark indications of full oil indication!!!! Checking the oil level on the dig stick shows the oil level at about 1/2 inch above the hash marks!!! I put about 1k miles on the bike and checked the oil both on the wheels and on the (add-on) center stand a few times with the same indication, about 1/2 inch above the hash marks. This is crazy and I don't know what folks who don't do their own oil changes think when they check the oil level when the dealer does the service??
2 liters? Where did you read that?
The manual I have says 1780cc of oil for the small block 750:
Page 12: http://www.guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/750/V7Classic_022009_Atelier(GB).pdf
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Sounds like you have over filled your crank case. You'll probably end up with an airbox of full of oil.
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OK, let's assume it's just plain normal.
Let's take the position that IF Dofin wants to keep the bike, he's going to need to deal with the vibration.
How about a play from Harley's old handbook - could you find or fabricate some rubbermounted risers to help isolate the handlebars slightly from the vibration?
Similarly - larger or softer grips and footpegs with more generous rubber?
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Yep, already thought of isolater mounts, have installed vibration tape on grips and will be checking into gloves.
Hey, 2 liters is two lts. Sump aint over filled, oil levels has stayed the same over last about 1K miles and no oil in the air box, also I have been at higher RPMs +7K.
I read 2000 cc/122.05 cu oil and oil filter change on page 192 in my Guzzi Use+Maintenance book Ed. 01_03/2014. It's a V7 stone 2015.
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How about a play from Harley's old handbook - could you find or fabricate some rubbermounted risers to help isolate the handlebars slightly from the vibration?
I think you'll find that the V7s already have rubber mounted handlebar risers.
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I think you'll find that the V7s already have rubber mounted handlebar risers.
I assume you're referring to 24 - Rubber Spacer:
(https://www.harpermoto.com/images/pl/2010/v7%20special%20-%20stone%20750%202012-2013/images/frame-front-fork-ii.jpg)
Crap, guess I ASSumed they were solid mounted.
Maybe a different material? (I'm probably stretching looking for solutions). Dofin probably has it right, gloves might be part of the answer.
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Nope Mine definitely does not have rubber isolated handle bar mounts. My GT500 does and that reminds me that I might not want to add them to the V7 the GT handling is VERY rubbery in hard turns, do not want my V7 the same way.
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Well, what ya know! the handle bars sure feel solid! Gotta go, work calls.
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Well, what ya know! the handle bars sure feel solid! Gotta go, work calls.
The bolt that holds the riser to the triple clamp floats in rubber.
Trust me. I'm not talking out my arse, and I actually had mine apart a couple weeks ago...
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use 2 quarts with a new filter or it will be over full. and that's a bit too full.
did you ad a crash bar or any thing else attached to the engine or frame?
80 on the speedo is 76 at best and that's about when to shift into 5th. keep the bike at 4000 RPM min. 4500 is perfect.
you shouldn't feel any real tingles until about 6000-6500. that's your shift indicator.
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did you ad a crash bar or any thing else attached to the engine or frame?
Good point. I put an Agostini's crash bar on my 2014 V7 Special. For a short time. I rode it to Tulsa and back, a 250 mile round trip, and removed it ASAP upon returning home. The darned thing magnified the vibrations to the point where they were almost intolerable at 80mph tollway speeds.
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My 1TB V7 Special vibrates. I don't believe it's because something is "wrong", just that the engines aren't well balanced.
So does mine. Enough that my feet occasionally start to tingle after a couple of hours.
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wally world has some cheap foam for bicycle H bars that will slide over the foot pegs.
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Firstly, got it the handle bars are mounted in rubber bushings.
Interesting about the crash bars, I have not added crash bars but did add a center stand. The Thump was there before I installed the stand.
4.5K would put me pretty close to 80mph. Dont want to run that fast. Again I want to be sure you guys with recent V7s run 70mph in 4th gear on the highway?? :undecided: It doesnt matter if I am in 4th at 70 or run 80 in 5th I still have the uncomfortable thump in the bars. The buzz type vibration is acceptable in all operation speeds. I think it is odd that I would have to run in 4th gear at 70mph all the way to Alaska from Pensacola???
Can we switch the oil conversation to the oil post I started? thanks
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I've made plenty of isolation mounts for motorcycles, mostly handle bars. Here is one way for round tube type bars.
Those #24 in the drawing are half measures, they could be made far better and work much better too.
Two places to put them, as isolation mounts for the bolts going into the top triple clamp or spanning the tube as it is captured by the bar clamps.
There are other ways though.
For the bolts holding the lower bar clamps going into the triple clamp. Drill the threaded portion of the triple clamp (where the bolts go through) or enlarge them if they are through holes with bolts held by nuts. Before you drill them out get bushings the diameter of the original hole. Drill the hole out to a greater size.
Cut the bushings to a slightly longer length so that each end of the bushing extends past the top and bottom of the triple clamp. Insert the bushing into the hole keeping it centered and the bushing end slightly above and below as described above.
Fill thegap between the bushing and hole with a rubber of appripriate durometer to give the isolation you need. It must be a very tough material, not soft. Allow to cure. Alternatively just fill the gap and bushing, drill out bushing afterwards.
Now when you insert the bolts, the component (bar mount) get tightened to the bushing, nothing above the bushing touches the triple clamp. The bar holders ride effectively in the isolator.
There will be some flex but how much depends on how much wider the hole was made than the original and the type of rubber used.
They can be made very thin yet effectively reduce most vibration.
BTW, this is how Moto Guzzi does it, in essence but they might press fit their mounts (Norge 8V)
The other way uses the bar tube where it is held by the top clamps to do the same thing. You need an extra set of bar mounts. Treat the tube as the bolts in the above example and use larger bushings inside of the larger bored hole ofnthe top and bottom bar mount. You can use split rings to do this. Much easier than splitting a bushing.
This way you aren't boring larger holes into the triple clamp. The big difference is how the isolators affect the feel of the bars and how easily you can experiment with different durometer rubber.
3M makes suitable materials for making isolator mounts.
The same ways can be used for footrests.
Done properly, the bars don't get that flexible feel to them but vibes can be reduced to nearly nil over much of the engine rpm range.
But then it won't feel like a V7 anymore either. :lipsrsealed:
Oops, back to the oil. :embarrassed:
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:Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu Okey Dokey, thanks everyone for the inputs. I think much like Rocker59 and RSS29 the the V7 just thumps cause it does not have the additional internal balancing that some of the more refined new bikes have. I like them now believe they were not ment for LONG distance, I will figure out what I need to do ether way. Thanks so much for the input and interesting opinions.
Time for me to move on and let you folks help some other need person? :drool:
Woop, Woop! going riding in the morning!! Oh yea, Last Saturday I took my brother out for a ride with his new to him 2013 Yamaha 1200 Tenere. start at 7am breakfast break at 9am road all around lower Alabama, stopped at 1pm for bbq lunch. got back home at 4pm, 320 miles. Great day riding, very seldom over 65mph on the country roads, he fell behind the V7 in the twisties but of course caught up in the straights! :thumb: