Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: guzziknight on June 01, 2016, 04:34:08 PM
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Hi all,
I'm on my road trip, 3rd day. My 98 EV is acting up. It's hesitating in most gears, at varying speeds. I thought it might be a transmission issue, but the it began having starting problems as well. It also seems very down on power.
I'm going to try to make it to the Guzzi dealer in Goshen, NY first thing tomorrow to have them look at it. Hopefully it'll make it there, which I think it will.
Is there anyone near Berwick that has the diagnostic software and the skill to look at it tonight? I know it's a long shot, but figured I'd ask.
If so, call me at 770-634-6967.
Thanks,
Yaniv
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I am very close to Goshen if I can be of assistance. The tech there has plenty of experience so he should be able to help you.
P.M. if you get there tomorrow. I may or may not be working but I will be finished by 3:00 regardless. DW
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It could be a spark plug issue.
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did u bring your extra TPS with you
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Hello.
If you are staying in PA tonight.
You may want to try reaching out to Eurosports. In Cooperburg ,PA
Closer than Goshen NY.
A Guzzi dealer. I recommend them.
Ph. 610 282 9300
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Hesitating do you mean missing?
Does it seem more like starving for fuel, dies on a hill, does the pump seem extra noisy, mine had a plugged fuel filter I let the fuel run out of the filter backwards, lots of rust
Missing? get hold of a multimeter and measure resistance from plug cap to chassis, should be 5 - 8 kOhm, mine had shitty carbon core HT lead that was not making contact at the coil end.
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I once had similar problem. turned out to be plug wire. you could try cutting down the plug end an inch or so (if it's long enough) and re-seat the cap..
also could be a tank vent problem?
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I'll go with a gas filter change first.
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I'll go with a gas filter change first.
The filter can be cleaned by the roadside by simply backflushing it with the gas trapped inside.
Check if the filter is plugged first by removing the return line at the steering column, direct it into a bottle.
If it's plugged you will just get a dribble of gas as the pump primes.
(on the 98 EV the pressure regulator is bolted to the chassis under the tank, the return line is low pressure high volume)
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I'll go with a gas filter change first.
That was my thought as well.
NAPA Gold 3008 is the filter IIRC. Needs some duct tape around the body to tighten in the clamp but otherwise is correct.
John Henry
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90% of it was an air leak at the right cylinder intake boot. Fixed that. Still has a little hesitation which I think is the TPS. Should be good for now. Thanks all!!
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90% of it was an air leak at the right cylinder intake boot. Fixed that. Still has a little hesitation which I think is the TPS. Should be good for now. Thanks all!!
How was that leaking? Throttle body backed away from the boot? Boot backed away from the manifold? Such things happen because of high pressure of an internal backfire.
With variable and constant missing, my first thoughts were spark secondary wires. Both of our 98EVs had chaffed the right cylinder spark wire exactly where it squeezes between the cylinder and the old hole/plate where a distributor used to reside on earlier motors. The wire was jammed in tight and chafed until it started to short. Regina's was lighting up like a Christmas tree. Once I solved hers, I inspected mine and caught it before the shorting started.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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After lighting up my leg for a day of rain I ran my plug wires through plastic tubing. I also routed them around the front of the valve covers instead of up my legs.
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After all that, I think the bike is toast. Later in the day, the bike became harder and harder to start. I got stuck in a traffic jam for about 60 minutes, and the bike got so hot, I could smell the clutch frying. Bike ran even worse after that. It's now parked at a friend's house and we rented a car to continue the trip, or part of it at least.
I'm now trying to figure out how to get the bike and trailer back to Georgia. Not sure I'm going to bother trying to fix it at this point. I'm pretty sure I did more damage to it yesterday. May just donate it to charity up here and not waste the money bringing it back.
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Ouch!
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Replacing clutch friction discs is a time-consuming but relatively cheap exercise. I'd offer to buy it from you but it would cost me $1500 in fuel just to tow it home.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Replacing clutch friction discs is a time-consuming but relatively cheap exercise. I'd offer to buy it from you but it would cost me $1500 in fuel just to tow it home.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
700 gallons of fuel ??? WTH are you driving Patrick :shocked:
Dusty
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Replacing clutch friction discs is a time-consuming but relatively cheap exercise. I'd offer to buy it from you but it would cost me $1500 in fuel just to tow it home.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
The clutch was replaced last year. No idea if I fried it, the engine, tranny, or something else. Either way, I can't ride it back to Atlanta, and found it'll cost me $1300 to rent a truck to haul it and the trailer home. The bike probably isn't worth that, especially since I'd then have to spend money to fix it.
I'm in Boston continuing our trip and trying to figure out a solution.
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Maybe a simple clutch adjustment will put things in order.
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Maybe you should get a proper diagnosis from a reputable dealer before throwing in the towel?
aside from the clutch smell...
if a simple TPS or cam/crank sensor replacement fixes it.. it would be a shame to abandon the poor thing..
Swarf on the crank sensor?
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700 gallons of fuel ??? WTH are you driving Patrick :shocked:
Dusty
San Francisco to Boston to San Francisco is 6196 miles. My camper van gets 14mpg when I tow. 443 gallons at $3 per gallon. Add some tolls and I have to sleep somewhere. Oh, wait. That's right. You're not all in California paying $3 per gallon when lucky.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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I understand the feeling of defeat a guy gets when he's that far from the barn and the horse is limping. It seems no longer worth it. But a day or two to sort it out and you might have a different outlook. We don't know anything more than it's running poorly and stinking. And really that's all it tells us. It could mean anything or nothing.
Considering the possible costs I agree that you need a better idea of what just happened before making your next move. If it's a $1500 proposition to get it home and it's totaled, then you should leave it there and try to sell it as damaged.
If it's a $50 fix and you can drive it home . . . .
I'm putting my money on a combination of not having found the original problem and that problem acting up moreso in the traffic jam.
I lost power completely on a '68 BSA once passing through Spokane on my way to Yellowstone. With no tools, book, experience or clue about BSA's beyond spelling it, I took almost a week to sort it down to a bad zener diode, and after several adventures, many miles of walking in extreme heat, and the sympathy of a 'lil cutie who lived in an efficiency apartment overlooking my efforts, I got it going again. I became determined to out think Joe Lucas and his legions of darkness. NOTE: Empire Cycle was in business back in '72 . . .
So all fixed up and smarter for it, I took some roads not taken and ended up finally in 3rd gear pushing my way over the summit of Lolo Pass. The bike was running smoothly -- probably the best it ever had -- and as I passed under the sign that said "Welcome to Montana", the center portion of the A65's left con rod beat me over the state line. That was the same con rod that Cisco Gonzales of Gonzales Motors in Tacoma charged me $425 to replace not a thousand miles ago. After Spokane and now this, I was determined to understand mechanical things and keep my own stuff running.
Still undaunted, I coasted as far down the pass as gravity would take me and found a comfy turnout. I witnessed my first display of Northern Lights. I thought it was Calgary on fire until someone pulled over to also watch and explained what I was seeing. I stayed the night there, determined to figure out how to photograph the northern lights, mostly on account of the guy who explained them to me assured me that they could not be captured on film.
The next morning a drunk cowboy (yeah, I said "morning" and "drunk") helped toss it into the back of his pickup and took all but my last $5 to haul me to Missoula. He spent all but about $5 of that on booze along the way, so we didn't get to the bike shop in Missoula until after midnight. He unceremoniously dumped the bike in a dirt pile behind the shop and disappeared into the night. I knocked on the door of the house attached to the bike shop where loud party music blared. A biker answered, listened to my story, handed me a joint and a beer, and told me to go away until tomorrow. So I made camp in the dirt pile next to the bike and spent the night smelling Castrol 20/50 and listening to Cheech explain to Chong that "Dave's not here, man!" endlessly, for the rest of the night. Well, Dave certainly was here, and the mosquitoes rejoiced.
I spent about 6 weeks in Missoula working in the stockyards and washing dishes trying to get the money together to repair the Beezer. I wasn't getting anywhere. The bike shop pushed the hulk into the back room and I headed for Yellowstone and the Park Service. There I made enough to buy a VW van by doing road matienance, perimeter patrols, trails maintenance, and fire fighting under the job description of "truck driver, which is the one thing I never did. At the end of the park season I'd learned a heck of a lot about all that stuff and pushed snow back to Missoula to get my bike. All that remained was the stripped frame, identifiable because of the awful paint job I'd inflicted on it. The shop claimed to have no knowledge of me or the bike, and offered to explain it more emphatically if I persisted with my objections. I became determined to never take anything to a shop again.
That trip took almost a year to complete, and it wasn't until a decade later that I finally did get a bike from the coast to Yellowstone and back -- in a week of easy travelling on my Ambassador. But I wouldn't have missed the experience for anything. I've become an accomplished northern lights and night photographer, I've not had anything in the shop since, I've had a career as a mechanic, and a vehicle electrician, and came to understand stuff well enough to help out others and design and build my own motor trike concept.
All because my piece of shit motorcycle kept breaking down and stranding me. So hang in there. These things can work out even when they don't seem to be. :)
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Wonderful story Roadkill.
Entertaining and insightful :bow:
Dave
Galveston
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Wow Roadkill, just wow! :bow:
My take away is "dig the experience", don't freak out, keep on truckin'.
er, I mean biking! :thumb:
We are all there with you Guzziknight.
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I read quite frequently about folks shipping a bike across the country for 500-700 bucks with one of the bike transport companies. Why doesn't it apply in this case? Seems a workable solution to the problem at hand....
Edit: I see the other thread has addressed this issue with the same suggestion.
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Sorry to hear about this. When I saw you at TWS you were really excited about this trip but hey it goes on. Just a curve ball on the road!
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I read quite frequently about folks shipping a bike across the country for 500-700 bucks with one of the bike transport companies. Why doesn't it apply in this case? Seems a workable solution to the problem at hand....
Edit: I see the other thread has addressed this issue with the same suggestion.
My thoughts too.
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I understand the feeling of defeat a guy gets when he's that far from the barn and the horse is limping. It seems no longer worth it. But a day or two to sort it out and you might have a different outlook. We don't know anything more than it's running poorly and stinking. And really that's all it tells us. It could mean anything or nothing............ .........
..................A ll because my piece of shit motorcycle kept breaking down and stranding me. So hang in there. These things can work out even when they don't seem to be. :)
Loved that tale Roadkill. Pity about the Beeza though. (I suspect a blocked up sludge trap may have accounted for your con rods)
I am another who is very reluctant indeed to use a bike shop, for reasons similar to yours, and others.
To the OP, I would also be reluctant indeed to give up on the bike at this point, especially as the fact that you own it means that you like it, at least in principle. I can understand though the emotional temptation to do so.
As for getting it home Check out all the possibilities. There are trains and freight lines amongst other things. Perhaps even store it somewhere and do another road trip yourself in the not to distant future to retrieve it? You might need a mate with a ute or a van. Or even buy a cheep van. They can be useful things. Such retrieval trips can be fun in themselves.
Chin up Yaniv. Some trips go bad and worse things happen at sea.
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I doubt you hurt the new clutch. you know how to ride too well.
I got the old Harley dresser so hot in Gatlinburg one time it destroyed the resistor plugs. a new set brought it back to life. try new ones. I bet the engine is fine once you find the original problem.
although you'll never hear the end of it put the wife on a bus, leave the trailer at some nice Guzzi guy or dealer there and I bet you can ride it home unloaded. you are demanding a lot from it. again if that TPS has 40000 miles on it $100 spent at the Harley shop might cure it.
it is usually something simple.
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A Guzzi engine is one of the most robust IC engines ever designed. As Pete says, if it hasn't made the "Dogga dogga" noise it's still alive. I wouldn't give up on it yet...
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Good story RK. :cool:
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I read quite frequently about folks shipping a bike across the country for 500-700 bucks with one of the bike transport companies. Why doesn't it apply in this case? Seems a workable solution to the problem at hand....
Edit: I see the other thread has addressed this issue with the same suggestion.
To get that price, you have to be willing to wait until they have a load going your way. It might be a month or more.
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Roadkill that is the best trip report I've read in a LONG time! Good job.
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Is that EV still hanging in there and going?
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Roadkill that is the best trip report I've read in a LONG time! Good job.
I was 18. That BSA has taught me a lot in the 40+ years since.
The purpose in retelling was to give our OP some encouragement.
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well GK what did you wind up doing?
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That's right. You're not all in California paying $3 per gallon when lucky.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Fuel has been under $2/gal here in flyover country for quite some time, now.
The Wal-Mart down the street from my office is currently $1.98/gal.
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well GK what did you wind up doing?
He has been up in Canada for a while in a rental car, so he doesn't spoil his vacation.
Later this week he will get back to the EV and let us know more. He said the spark plugs were black, but no "hard bits" stuck in them. So I don't think the motor is broken, just something simple like a bad TPS. Maybe a bad clutch, but I would think he would recognize that at the lever.
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In 1999, out in the middle of nowhere Utah, my Sport 1100 started acting like that.
Intermittently running on one cylinder below 4500 rpm.
I looked at it and couldn't find anything wrong, so nursed it into the dealer at Salt Lake City.
In a few minutes, the mechanic there discovered the left plug wire burned inside the plug cap. I had not thought to remove the NGK plug cap and look at the end of the plug wire.
Anyway, he snipped about a quarter inch off that wire and screwed the plug cap back on. The bike has been running fine on that wire ever since!
So yeah. It's probably something simple. Plug wire, TPS, side stand switch, etc...
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In 1999, out in the middle of nowhere Utah, my Sport 1100 started acting like that.
Intermittently running on one cylinder below 4500 rpm.
I looked at it and couldn't find anything wrong, so nursed it into the dealer at Salt Lake City.
In a few minutes, the mechanic there discovered the left plug wire burned inside the plug cap. I had not thought to remove the NGK plug cap and look at the end of the plug wire.
Anyway, he snipped about a quarter inch off that wire and screwed the plug cap back on. The bike has been running fine on that wire ever since!
So yeah. It's probably something simple. Plug wire, TPS, side stand switch, etc...
I once had similar problem. turned out to be plug wire. you could try cutting down the plug end an inch or so (if it's long enough) and re-seat the cap..
also could be a tank vent problem?
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Fuel prices mentioned above make me green with envy. Currently in NZ we are paying $5.35 USD per us gallon at the pump!!! .... and I don't like it!
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You guys are treated like the EU tax wise. :tongue:
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True. And it's something I would like to change. You should see the price of tobacco too!
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/Angry%20emoticon.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/Angry%20emoticon.jpg.html)
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Aren't manufactured goods taxed heavily too?
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True. And it's something I would like to change. You should see the price of tobacco too!
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/Angry%20emoticon.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/Angry%20emoticon.jpg.html)
Let's talk about addictive drugs, John.. Oh, never mind. :smiley: The 20 year old kid that is working for me chews. :rolleyes: I've mentioned as gently as I can that it's an addictive drug. Quitting smoking was one of the hardest things I've done. You're old enough to know better. :evil: After Dorcia surviving breast cancer (so far) and my little cancer thing (prostate and kidney) I *could* get get on a soap box about adding to your chances with tobacco. I guess I just did. :smiley:
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Kiwis are too damn ornery!
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Aussies are. Not Kiwi's. :grin: Ask Pete. Oh......wait, he's a reject Brit. :evil: :tongue: :grin:
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Just got back to Hartford. Got new Iridium plugs and put them in. The ones I took out didn't look too bad. The right one was a little darker than the left. Checked the plug wires, which didn't look bad to me. Took it out for a ride with my wife on the back.
It ran slightly better than before. After it warmed up, it started to hesitate again, at times very strongly. It did struggle a little when I got gas and restarted it, but it didn't die at least.
I think the plugs helped a little, but didn't solve the problem. I really believe it's the TPS. Going to ride it home, taking my time getting there. If it starts to have serious problems, I'll get it towed.
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That's hanging in there! Perhaps someone in the area will ride sweep for you or give you some bases to touch on the way home. I would, but it's just too darn inconvenient for me. :boozing:
Remember -- if you give up now, the terrorists win!
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Buy or borrow a cheap multimeter
Measure from plug cap to chassis, both sides should be similar about 8,000 ohms from memory, the point is they should be similar left to right.
Measure Voltage to chassis at the TPS it should increase smoothly from about 150 mV to jut over 4 V as you open the throttle
There are 3 wires to the TPS
One will have a steady 5 Volts on it
One will be 0 Volts or chassis
The third is the one of interest 150 mV** to over 4.5 Volts, I believe it goes to pin 30 of the P8 ECU and pin 11 of the 15M but you can access the wire
directly by making a nick in the insulation or poking it with a sewing pin.
** the 150 mV is with the butterfly fully closed, more like 400 - 450 mV at idle setting.
A Voltage test is really the only way, Ohms makes no sense since it's NOT a simple potentiometer as the schematics show
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Just got back to Hartford. Got new Iridium plugs and put them in. The ones I took out didn't look too bad. The right one was a little darker than the left. Checked the plug wires, which didn't look bad to me. Took it out for a ride with my wife on the back.
It ran slightly better than before. After it warmed up, it started to hesitate again, at times very strongly. It did struggle a little when I got gas and restarted it, but it didn't die at least.
I think the plugs helped a little, but didn't solve the problem. I really believe it's the TPS. Going to ride it home, taking my time getting there. If it starts to have serious problems, I'll get it towed.
I wonder if the TPS has shifted position, or failed. Or something related to it like that temperature sensor switch that you have. Maybe it is rich, meaning, it will run worse when hot.
Keep an eye on the oil level. If the oil level goes UP, or gets thinned out by gasoline, it may be time to stop riding it until fixed.
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With the hesitating occurring over various speeds and increases as the engine warms up somewhat, I would doubt that the TPS is the issue. I would suspect one of the coils breaking down under load. Of course, as others have have said, it could be a plug cap or the HV wire ends. But not being there, its just a guess. Any car shop that has an oscilloscope should be able to determine the problem if it is ignition related.
Have a safe and a trouble free trip back home.
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.....All because my piece of shit motorcycle kept breaking down and stranding me. So hang in there. These things can work out even when they don't seem to be. :)
Great story. Its amazing things you can do and put up with when one is young and naive.