Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: waxi on June 09, 2016, 09:32:24 AM
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Hi, :bow:
Has anyone figured out if it's possible to read engine temperature on a dash (while driving, so GuzziDiag is probably not an option here)? I don't know if big blocks have this integrated in speedo, but on small ones you surely don't have this information. Found this little gauge on eBay as oil dip stick replacement... Any experiences with it?
(http://thumb.ibb.co/h7hTva/12.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h7hTva)
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Do you want head temperature, or oil temperature.
Using Guzzidiag would be an issue, because Guzzi puts the engine temp sensor in some mediocre locations that don't work out so well.
I have one of the oil temp dipsticks. What I learned was, the oil is over cooled in almost all cases. Unless you are stuck in rush hour traffic in the summer in Atlanta, then it gets too hot. :angry:
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If you really want to measure temps then get a couple of the spark plug style thermocouples and a gauge. Or, more ugly, weld a bung on the headers and put in an EGT sensor and gauge.
But, to answer the question, yes, those measure oil temps as long as the end of it is in the oil :) I knew of a guy who bought one and never wondered why the temp was so cool. The thing was too short and it was just measuring the crankcase air temp.
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Yeah. air-cooled engine temps are usually measured at three different places, for different reasons.
1) oil temperature
2) cylinder head temperature
3) exhaust temperature
If you want a temperature gauge to look at while riding, as Charlie mentioned, the common spark plug style cylinder head temperature senders and a mechanical temp gauge will get it done.
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I don't know which temperature GuzziDiag displays as "Engine temperature". This seems to be quite representative.
Yeah, problem is where to put the display. It will definitely look ugly. I have already tested the EGT sensor (it fits into the cylinder fins perfectly), but it was cheap Chinese item. You can imagine how accurate it was. Is another option smartphone and TuneECU? Then you can get all parameters there... maybe it works... and it's detachable... :lipsrsealed:
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I have a dip stick thermometer like the one you show. It's Chinese and accurate, at least at 212F. I think some of the oil has leaked out of the face, otherwise it works just fine. My highest temp so far has been around 250F. That's well below the 350F point where my synthetic oil would start breaking down. Oil analysis has confirmed that the oil is holding up nicely. Oh, and I have a sump spacer so 1L more in the sump than stock.
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Sorry, but a gauge you have to stop and get off the bike and onto your knees beside it to use isn't a tool -- it's comic relief. I installed regular gauges on mine -- a VDO analog on one and a Dakota Digital on the other. I drilled and tapped the sumps just above the drain plug to install the sender. The gauges are easily read while riding.
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https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=scantwin.scanmM5.AllinOne
This may or may not work for your ecu but you can monitor temps with a bluetooth transmitter to your phone.
Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
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Cheapest ( read Guszziest) temp gauge is to take off gloves and put hands on engine. If you smell frying meat, the engine is too hot.
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What will you do with the data when you get it ?
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Old thread coming to life...
What will you do with the data when you get it ?
Well, nothing. It's just very informative when you're riding in different conditions (hot/cold weather, driving hard, slow, traffic jams...).
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Old thread coming to life...
Well, nothing. It's just very informative when you're riding in different conditions (hot/cold weather, driving hard, slow, traffic jams...).
Hmmmm..
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I installed the Micro 1000 dual cylinder head temperature gauge from Aircraft Spruce, more expensive than similar-looking gauges but it compensates for ambient temperature. They even did a special order for me with neon orange gauge pointers that are easier to read. I bought the probes that are rings that go on the spark plug leads and routed them along the crashbars.
I've been pleased to see that the temperature holds around 300-350 under most normal conditions, and I haven't yet seen it reach 400. We'll see what happens riding into the desert this summer!
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I installed the Micro 1000 dual cylinder head temperature gauge from Aircraft Spruce, more expensive than similar-looking gauges but it compensates for ambient temperature. They even did a special order for me with neon orange gauge pointers that are easier to read. I bought the probes that are rings that go on the spark plug leads and routed them along the crashbars.
I've been pleased to see that the temperature holds around 300-350 under most normal conditions, and I haven't yet seen it reach 400. We'll see what happens riding into the desert this summer!
:thumb:
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What will you do with the data when you get it ?
I would stop and let the engine cool (at least!) I understand that its unlikely to overheat unless in traffic situation. Some face that as normal riding ...Chicago is one situation...I can sweat a damn lot when it 90ºF and 90% humid, and traffic is walking speed.
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I never understood taking a reading from base of the sparkplug. The top of the combustion chambers has varying temperature swings and does not directly relate to the oil temperature. The base of the plug can be a couple hundred degrees within a minute of startup but the oil is ice cold. Since air cooled motors are actually air/oil cooled isn't it more prudent to know what the temperature of the oil is in case it reaches a temperature where thermal breakdown can occur?
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I've an oil-temp. gauge in the fairing of my Magni, and it is handy to be able to glance down and see it on the move. I didn't fit it myself: if I had I'd have left the fairing alone and put it somewhere on the dash. The temp-sender screws into an adapter on the rear of the sump. It's a very simple set-up (see pics).
(https://i.postimg.cc/k6JXBSkZ/Magni-temp-sender.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6JXBSkZ) (https://i.postimg.cc/yWfW3f6T/Magni-oil-temp-gauge.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/yWfW3f6T)
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Of the various temperatures discussed here, air (and oil) cooled aircraft engines also look at the them for the following reasons:
- oil temp: warm enough for take off?, too hot indicative of oil loss?
- cylinder head temp: adequate cooling?, appropriate mixture control
- exhaust gas temp: completeness of combustion (esp one cylinder vs others), also mixture control.
So, in rough terms, each tells us something different. Oil temp IMHO is the least informative moment to moment.
Await input from Chuck re his av experience.
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Of the various temperatures discussed here, air (and oil) cooled aircraft engines also look at the them for the following reasons:
- oil temp: warm enough for take off?, too hot indicative of oil loss?
- cylinder head temp: adequate cooling?, appropriate mixture control
- exhaust gas temp: completeness of combustion (esp one cylinder vs others), also mixture control.
So, in rough terms, each tells us something different. Oil temp IMHO is the least informative moment to moment.
Await input from Chuck re his av experience.
Yes, I want to hear from Chuck, too. In an airplane, cruising speed means a steady throttle for hours at a time, so EGT can stabilize and tell you something useful about mixture: for best economy usually a bit lean of peak, for best power a bit rich of peak. This would be pretty useless on a motorcycle unless you're absurdly serious about performance on the superslab. CHT might tell you about overheating in midsummer traffic or crossing Death Valley in August. For oil performance I think oil pressure is a more important data point than oil temp, especially as regards oil loss. As somebody mentioned it's possible for the oil to drop below the level of an oil temp sensor in which case you'll get a false low temp reading, but oil pressure tells you something serious about the fate of bearings and cams.
My CAP check pilot once survived an engine-failure crash into a forest, breaking his legs. Forever after, on check rides, he always asked "What's the most important instrument on the panel?" The correct answer was the oil pressure gauge.
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I used to run an oil temp gauge with the probe in the drain plug. through three big blocks I learned that it takes on the average thirty miles for the oil temp to come up and stabilize and from there it would fluctuate depending on engine load, stop and go traffic, etc. It never overheated the oil, more often the oil was too cold unless ambient temps were above about 80F. I realized that I needed to pay attention to hazards and while it was interesting, oil temp was not a problem unless it was too cold. Guzzi engines that are made for higher output may push the temps up but I prefer a reliable warning light for anything or I will pay too much attention to the gauges and not to the cell phone idiots who will sacrifice me to save themselves a couple seconds in traffic. If I was to run a gauge, it would be a dual cylinder head temp, like AZ rider. I would pay too much attention to it so I don't want one. A car or airplane, sure, in those I can divide my attention. I've gotten old and need my brain to look for stuff that will hurt
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My V11EV came with the pictured thermo/dipstick.
Had to calibrate the FULL line.
Used it to see that I never managed to overheat the oil.
Used it to see that the oil could get hot enough to boil out the crankcase condensation.
It's totally unnecessary. By the time you are in a bad range there must be some really obvious problems you don't need a gage for
NOW I wish they had installed a good and honest Voltmeter at the panel instead of the huge Tach and oversized indicator lights. Rev limiter works fine on the EV. :evil:
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Checking the temperature at this location is best to give you a good measurement of the actual cylinder head temperature. Oil temps will always be lower, and both matter, particularly in older motors. This of course is as important if not more so then oil temperature because it effects valve seals, valve seats and the actual cylinder head itself. On my 912, I have two Leads measuring the cylinder head temperature, and then two others for the oil, one measuring the temperature in the sump one measuring temperature post cooler.
TMI perhaps, but not a bad thing.
I never understood taking a reading from base of the sparkplug. The top of the combustion chambers has varying temperature swings and does not directly relate to the oil temperature. The base of the plug can be a couple hundred degrees within a minute of startup but the oil is ice cold. Since air cooled motors are actually air/oil cooled isn't it more prudent to know what the temperature of the oil is in case it reaches a temperature where thermal breakdown can occur?
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I installed the Micro 1000 dual cylinder head temperature gauge from Aircraft Spruce, more expensive than similar-looking gauges but it compensates for ambient temperature. They even did a special order for me with neon orange gauge pointers that are easier to read. I bought the probes that are rings that go on the spark plug leads and routed them along the crashbars.
I've been pleased to see that the temperature holds around 300-350 under most normal conditions, and I haven't yet seen it reach 400. We'll see what happens riding into the desert this summer!
I installed a similar gauge. One gauge was bad from the factory, they gladly replaced it. Works well, although one "sender" (probe) continues to be lazy and show low readings. I enjoy it greatly. Just like knowing what's going on. Others say it's a distraction / nuisance because the two cylinders never read the same.
Joe
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3843/14432268051_6652d57807.jpg)
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Having adapted a meat thermometer as a dip stick, I've found that normal operating temperature is about mid-way between roast beef and turkey.
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Having adapted a meat thermometer as a dip stick, I've found that normal operating temperature is about mid-way between roast beef and turkey.
So what would be the appropriate temp for a goose?