Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Mikecocos on June 20, 2016, 09:04:00 AM
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I own a 2014 V7 stone with about 4,000 kms. For a couple of days now and after the bike runs a bit, I am having real trouble finding neutral. Sometimes, I also have trouble changing gears and have to apply significant of pressure to the shift pedal in order to shift up or down gears.
I am assuming this is some short of issue with the cable running from the shift pedal to the engine. Anyone experience similar issues? Anyone have any suggestions regarding cause or a potential fix?
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If you have excessive play in the cable going to the clutch activation arm it will do that.
On the left handlebar there is an adjuster, back off the large lock ring, then back out the part the cable goes in, retighten lock ring. Continue until it shifts nice. Should be about 3/16 or so gap by the clutch lever pivot on left bar.
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it's also wise to check the routing of the cable. From the factory it runs right up against the bottom of the right hand cylinder. The rubber block they put on it is inadequate and will actually melt into the fins. At the recommendation of a friend I've tied mine up away from the cylinder, but not so much as to kink it or change the angle at the point it mounts at the rear. Seems to work, I've only adjusted mine once, and that was very little. Have 3,000 miles on it. His is a 2010 that had all the seem cable issues until he did this.
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Thanks guys.
wahoo650- I tied my clutch cable away from the cylinder, shortly after buying the bike. Was blown away that MG would sell the bike like that. Seems reckless.
guzzisteve- I'll adjust the cable as you suggest tonight. Will get back to you later with an update.
Cheers,
Mike
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after the bike runs a bit, I am having real trouble finding neutral.
This happens often. When the bike warms up the the mechanism seems to stretch a tad, and it'll be hard to shift or find neutral.
Adjust the clutch just a hair tighter (i.e. less play in cable).
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My V7 is the same. Goes into neutral easily when cold and not too bad when changing down the box when hot. But change down into first gear and come to a stop and then try to shift up into neutral and it's like somebody has welded the gear lever into place.
I haven't adjusted the cable but I am learning to make sure the bike is in neutral just before I come to a complete stop.
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My V7 is the same. Goes into neutral easily when cold and not too bad when changing down the box when hot. But change down into first gear and come to a stop and then try to shift up into neutral and it's like somebody has welded the gear lever into place.
I haven't adjusted the cable but I am learning to make sure the bike is in neutral just before I come to a complete stop.
There's no reason the clutch/shifter on these things have to act that way, just take out a smidge more freeplay to sure the clutch really does disengage when you pull on the lever.
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Insert a good video on adjusting a V7 clutch here :popcorn:
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Insert a good video on adjusting a V7 clutch here :popcorn:
There's an idea. I'll post this to remind me once I get back home in a month or so - if someone else doesn't get to it in the meantime.
Mal (16,000km down on the trip so far)
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There's an idea. I'll post this to remind me once I get back home in a month or so - if someone else doesn't get to it in the meantime.
Mal (16,000km down on the trip so far)
Yeah, where are you? I have these poxy heated grips for you and I don't know where to send them! I thought you'd croaked! Idiot!
Pete
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We are back in the bosom of civilisation at Port Augusta, have organised a new tyre & a replacement brake light switch for the Special here. I'll send you a PM with the address.
(http://i1138.photobucket.com/albums/n538/hatihati/2%20x%20V7s%20around%20Oz/A0EADC0B-5BFE-495E-9D06-59DA0C1EE04E.jpg)
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One day I hope to have this same picture with my V7 in it.
I lived in Alice for a while and want to go for a ride back there.
The rock is a bit of a detour, but it's worth it.
Did you get caught by the big storms they've been having in Centralia (god I hate that name but they all use it :rolleyes:)
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There's no reason the clutch/shifter on these things have to act that way, just take out a smidge more freeplay to sure the clutch really does disengage when you pull on the lever.
:1: on that. There has to be some free play but I have seen levers that have WAY too much. My Breva will find neutral no problem, will engage 1st no problem but still has a small amount of free play.
I also have the lever packed a bit so it is closer to the handlebars, just so that I can reach it. (short fingers :rolleyes:) Adjustment range is very fine but still doable.
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I fear that the big issue is that owners are either unwilling or can't read the owners handbook.
Yes, I know it's a recurring issue but the simple fact is that any Bowden cable of this type will compress in service. The outer, especially in hot weather, will compress when the clutch lever is pulled and with a new cable the outer will, over a comparatively short period of time, shorten. This means that the effective travel of the cable will be reduced and therefore the cable will need adjusting.
Instructions on how to do this are IN THE OWNER'S HANDBOOK!.
Yes, I don't doubt for a minute that set-up at a lot of dealers may be a bit ho-hum but surely adjusting clutch free play isn't beyond the ken of ordinary human beings? When I got my first bikes they were all ancient, worn out, shitters! I would of loved to have to have had an owner's handbook or instructions but I managed to nut it out!
It's not rocket science! Use your eyes and intelligence. None of you are stupid! Use your brains.
Pete.
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A shift linkage with a loose clamp bolt (either #6) or linkage locknuts (#8) on the 2009 V7 Classic model, will definitely cause that.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic001/shift%20linkage_zpsyekiuiwh.jpg)
Also, at a complete stop, the shift drum in the tranny may need a little little little bit of clutch slippage to engage /disengage. Or you can rock the bike back and forth a little little little bit (like a half inch) to help get the shift drum to move out of the 'dead zone'. Click
:wink:
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When I got my first bikes they were all ancient, worn out, shitters!
Pete.
You too huh? :grin:
Mine was an old wartime model Matchy. :rolleyes:
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Also, at a complete stop, the shift drum in the tranny may need a little little little bit of clutch slippage to engage /disengage. Or you can rock the bike back and forth a little little little bit (like a half inch) to help get the shift drum to move out of the 'dead zone'. Click
Correct. Those of us with experience may forget that some don't realize this.
As a way aside, for those of you in AU, the Alice Springs photo reminded my to mention my dad flew 24's out of Darwin. While on booze runs (!) to the south they's use the rock to assist getting back to base. There's WAY more to the story!
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Pete, thing is, I suspect the OEM materials/specs are part of the problem in this case. IIRC setting up at the far end of OEM spec doesn't allow the clutch to fully disengage. I think it's part of the reason I've run into the issue on a number of freshly dealer prepped bikes.
King, I certainly can remember instances on both BMWs (airheads) and Guzzis where this helped. Maybe it does when this particular problem occurs on a smallblock because it allows the input shaft to spin enough to engage/disengage a gear. The irony is that this particular problem occurs when the clutch doesn't fully disengage, so one would probably but think to slip it more to shift, as it seems counter intuitive. Thing is, I feel compelled to mention, that since tightening up the cable sufficiently fully disengage the clutch, I don't think I've ever had to slip it again to shift into neutral or first at a stand still. <shrugs> Unless, as you suggest, I'm doing it subconsciously, which I don't THINK I am, but I'll pay specific attention next time out of curiosity.
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Also, at a complete stop, the shift drum in the tranny may need a little little little bit of clutch slippage to engage /disengage. Or you can rock the bike back and forth a little little little bit (like a half inch) to help get the shift drum to move out of the 'dead zone'. Click
It has bugger all to do with the shift drum. It's to do with the engagement dogs and their alignment. That isn't the issue though. If the bike is creeping it's to do with the clutch not engaging. That means it's not adjusted right.
Pete
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I fear that the big issue is that owners are either unwilling or can't read the owners handbook.
Yes, I know it's a recurring issue but the simple fact is that any Bowden cable of this type will compress in service. The outer, especially in hot weather, will compress when the clutch lever is pulled and with a new cable the outer will, over a comparatively short period of time, shorten. This means that the effective travel of the cable will be reduced and therefore the cable will need adjusting.
Instructions on how to do this are IN THE OWNER'S HANDBOOK!.
Yes, I don't doubt for a minute that set-up at a lot of dealers may be a bit ho-hum but surely adjusting clutch free play isn't beyond the ken of ordinary human beings? When I got my first bikes they were all ancient, worn out, shitters! I would of loved to have to have had an owner's handbook or instructions but I managed to nut it out!
It's not rocket science! Use your eyes and intelligence. None of you are stupid! Use your brains.
Pete.
Sorry, Pete you are not right here. Neither in my German handbook that came with my V7 Stone nor in the English version I downloaded the setting of the clutch is described. If you have a version of the handbook with a proper description of the justage please post it.
I adjust my clutch lever in a way that in idle position of the lever the compression die has minute freeplay from the cantilever that operates it via the clutch cable. The location of the compression die of course is the back of the gearbox. It is visible when a the right side cover is removed.
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OK. I give up. Be sad and desperate and don't use your brains. No wonder Piaggio see the 'Future' in the 'Bobber' and 'Roamer'.
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side topic:
what do you call the kind of head on the screw inside the locknut that adjusts the cable at the gearbox end?
the head has a flatened end which can be sdjusted with a very small adjustable spanner. Is there a specific tool for this kind of head?
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It's just a 1mm grub screw with a locknut. Back in the old days when people were expected to do basic running maintenance themselves there was a grotty, poorly made, (But in extremis it would do the job.) *Tool* in the tool pouch provided with the bike to twist it. In reality if you get a bit of 2mm bar and cut a slot in the end with a 3mm angle grinder wheel you have the same *Tool*. Piaggio no longer provide such a frighteningly complex bit of technology so hi yourselves hence to Harbour Freight and make one or quit whining.
Pete
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Not everyone is like us Pete , starting out when when tires were still made of stone and electric starters were a sign of being less than manly ...
Dusty
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It's just a 1mm grub screw with a locknut. Back in the old days when people were expected to do basic running maintenance themselves there was a grotty, poorly made, (But in extremis it would do the job.) *Tool* in the tool pouch provided with the bike to twist it. In reality if you get a bit of 2mm bar and cut a slot in the end with a 3mm angle grinder wheel you have the same *Tool*. Piaggio no longer provide such a frighteningly complex bit of technology so hi yourselves hence to Harbour Freight and make one or quit whining.
Pete
Thanks,
I actually had the grinder out and was going to make one by grinding a slot in an 8mm allen key. But finding the key for the grinder to change the disk I found a small adgustable wrench first which did the trick. Will need to find the key for the grinder though I should tie it to the grinder flex.
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side topic:
what do you call the kind of head on the screw inside the locknut that adjusts the cable at the gearbox end?
the head has a flatened end which can be sdjusted with a very small adjustable spanner. Is there a specific tool for this kind of head?
Well I never! I had better go and have a look at the Breva. In 20,000 miles (low mileage as it was off the road for "some time" :rolleyes:) I have never needed to look as i have never needed it. Shows how little creep there actually is in the cable/cable outer/clutch plate wear. Been able to take it all up at the lever end so far.
edit: must have seen it as I have had the box out twice. :embarrassed:
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It is rather dumb of Guzzi to omit the clutch lever adjustment from the MoM.
Charm? Quirkiness? Nope, just dumb.
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I've read many (too many) threads on hard shifting on the V7s and V7II's. With truly rare exceptions, the problem is always a clutch cable needing adjustment. It's not hard to do. I consider these kinds of adjustments as analogous to adjusting the seat and mirrors when you get into a car. Everyone needs to know how to be responsible for these very basic adjustments. It doesn't even get your hands dirty. It's part of riding a motorcycle.
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A couple of weeks ago I recieved a letter from the Aussie supplier containing an "additional attachment" to the owner's manual.
It's for the clutch freeplay adjustment!
Guess that shows that it wasn't originally included inthe manual.... :rolleyes:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/c6qZJv/V7_Clutch_Adjustment_1.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c6qZJv)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bDb8dv/V7_Clutch_Adjustment_2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bDb8dv)
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I've read many (too many) threads on hard shifting on the V7s and V7II's. With truly rare exceptions, the problem is always a clutch cable needing adjustment. It's not hard to do. I consider these kinds of adjustments as analogous to adjusting the seat and mirrors when you get into a car. Everyone needs to know how to be responsible for these very basic adjustments. It doesn't even get your hands dirty. It's part of riding a motorcycle.
THIS!
Ok, thank's Craig. I must of missed its omission in the V7-II book but even so, it's just something that, at least to me is completely intuitive, like wiping one's arse!
Pete
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I never realised it was missing either - the adjustment is basic and logical.
After you mentioned that I should keep an eye on it I check it regularly .
Someone else on the forum had mentioned 2mm of freeplay (and using a 2mm drill bit to check it.)
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THIS!
Ok, thank's Craig. I must of missed its omission in the V7-II book but even so, it's just something that, at least to me is completely intuitive, like wiping one's arse!
Pete
I had a chap say to me that his car wouldn't go along properly and smelt funny. You've got a brake dragging says I which was proved to be right when he finally got the garage to take a look.
The sad thing was that he was one of our Mechanical Design Engineers :shocked:
I'm not saying this applies to the OP (indeed he might be an Electrical Engineer and therefore beyond hope :wink: :azn:) but simple good understanding of the mechanics of machines seems to be sadly lacking these days
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I never realised it was missing either - the adjustment is basic and logical.
After you mentioned that I should keep an eye on it I check it regularly .
Someone else on the forum had mentioned 2mm of freeplay (and using a 2mm drill bit to check it.)
Strange, the clutch adjustment info IS present in my pdf copies of 3 V7II user manuals: English only Ed. 02_01/2015; Dutch/German Ed. 01_11/2014; and English/Spanish Ed. 01_11/2014. But it is missing from the earlier (1TB) V7 Stone/Special/Racer manual Ed. 02_06/2012. I no longer have the paper version of that manual to compare.
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Irrelevant really to my mind. If you can't work this sort of thing out you don't need a motorbike, you need a bus pass. (Cue whining umbrage and first world complaining about how things should always be easy and perfect.).
Pete
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Irrelevant really to my mind. If you can't work this sort of thing out you don't need a motorbike, you need a bus pass. (Cue whining umbrage and first world complaining about how things should always be easy and perfect.).
Pete
I do think that people who drive or ride (more so those who ride) should learn something about the mechanics of their vehicles if only from a safety standpoint. They should know when to pull over to the side of the road with an overheating air-cooled motor or when a brake or clutch is dragging. Yes.
That said, there are plenty of people out there who ride or drive who far surpass you and me in other areas of expertise. Hell, I have no doubt that you and many here far surpass me in the area of mechanics.
But what I really find funny is your complete umbrage at realizing this and to listen to you well, frankly, you sound an awful lot like some of the Moco "faithful" who feel that anyone who can't replace a piston on the side of the road have no business riding a motorcycle.
I just think there's an awful lot of gray area between the two and I'm sure there are plenty of people here willing to help those who are far to the beginner's side on the sliding scale to understand what seems to basic to some of us.
We were all there at one point...
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...like some of the Moco "faithful" who feel that anyone who can't replace a piston on the side of the road have no business riding a motorcycle....
Well, if you can't fabricate a replacement block at the side of the road, then you're a hopeless wuss.
But, seriously, please neither of you go off in a huff. You're among the more valuable members of this forum and I enjoy reading all of your comments, even the abrasive ones.
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Thanks. the pics are appreciated.
A couple of weeks ago I recieved a letter from the Aussie supplier containing an "additional attachment" to the owner's manual.
It's for the clutch freeplay adjustment!
Guess that shows that it wasn't originally included inthe manual.... :rolleyes:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/c6qZJv/V7_Clutch_Adjustment_1.jpg) (http://ibb.co/c6qZJv)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bDb8dv/V7_Clutch_Adjustment_2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bDb8dv)
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Well, if you can't fabricate a replacement block at the side of the road, then you're a hopeless wuss.
But, seriously, please neither of you go off in a huff. You're among the more valuable members of this forum and I enjoy reading all of your comments, even the abrasive ones.
Pete knows I love him and have enjoyed sharing a pint more than once.
I also have no problem with Pete as I understand his nature (and he mine).
But I don't want to see either of us chase someone else off.
And, if I can compare him to the Moco faithful, well, I get a certain delight in poking the bear. :evil: :boozing: :wink:
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I totally get Pete's frustration. After a couple of years in the motorcycle rider training field, I concur with the basic premise (if for perhaps different reasons): "If you don't care enough about motorcycling to become somewhat of an expert at it, maybe it isn't for you."
IMO we simply can't sell motorcycling as a hobby, like stamp collecting or tennis, because the cost of "doing it wrong" can be up to, and including, paying the ultimate price. No such risk in tennis or stamps, as far as I know! Also, we get 10 threads on the difficulties of shifting.
It's true, we were all new once. "Way back" in the pre-internet days, when the now-grizzled veterans were just getting started, they learned a few things by asking their more experienced cousin or by hanging out at the shop or the track. Their "dumb" questions were witnessed by a few; today's are asked here in full view of all of us idiots. :grin:
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Thanks. the pics are appreciated.
Those factory images on adjusting the clutch are interesting. Sadly, the translation was done by a high school student, so it's fairly useless.
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I do think that people who drive or ride (more so those who ride) should learn something about the mechanics of their vehicles if only from a safety standpoint.
As part of the motorcycle course I did 150 years ago it was part of it. The course was not a short 2hr jobbie but took about 6 weeks of Saturday mornings. Not only covered the riding and safety aspects but basic mechanicing and servicing of the bike.
Well worth it.
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Well, seeing the missing pages of the manual I�m happy to realise that my way of adjusting the clutch that I found intuitively albeit being an electronics engineer is right on the spot :azn:.