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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: JQ on July 11, 2016, 04:10:50 PM

Title: Harley help?
Post by: JQ on July 11, 2016, 04:10:50 PM
This is at least the eighth attempt at selling this bike on Ebay this Spring.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-Touring-/182195207849?vxp=mtr
I'm surprised, because I think it's one of the coolest looking Harleys I've ever seen - and a fair price, so I thought it would sell right away.  But, no.  No takers.
Anyone have an opinion as to why this bike continues not to sell?
I've never owned one, and I don't know much about them.
(I'm not the owner; it's not mine.  I'm just curious.)
Thanks,
JQ
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: twowings on July 11, 2016, 04:14:40 PM
Um...no one wants it?
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: slopokes on July 11, 2016, 04:21:14 PM
that is one pretty bike--I think you should put it up for bidding--start at 2k and set the reserve at what you want--
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: guzzisteve on July 11, 2016, 04:26:15 PM
Market is flooded w/ HD's
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: oldbike54 on July 11, 2016, 04:31:36 PM
Market is flooded w/ HD's

 Yep , and the dealers won't give but maybe $6K trade in on that bike . The $14K figure the seller is claiming is completely ridiculous , one of the reasons this bike won't bring much is that HD made a large improvement in their FL frames 4 years or so later , kind of knocked the value out of that generation FL .

 Dusty
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Triple Jim on July 11, 2016, 04:36:58 PM
Serious question:  What is meant by "big bore"?  Aftermarket cylinders, bored stock cylinders, big-bore carb/throttle body?  Or something else?
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: oldbike54 on July 11, 2016, 04:39:36 PM
Serious question:  What is meant by "big bore"?  Aftermarket cylinders, bored stock cylinders, big-bore carb/throttle body?  Or something else?

 None of the above , it literally means it is a big bore  :shocked: :evil:

 Dusty
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: fotoguzzi on July 11, 2016, 05:16:52 PM
not a chrome fan but the front fender is cool, nice looking bike.. but market is flooded with them.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: K250 on July 11, 2016, 05:26:30 PM
If he can get that much out of a 10 year old bike it's held it's value really well.  It is a good looking motorcycle.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: K250 on July 11, 2016, 05:30:57 PM
Just read that he selling to pay for a house rehab.  HAHAHA whew.  He hasn't gotten very many quotes on a rehab yet!  That won't pay for a whole lot. 

a quick Google shows that the bike came with 1442 cc's, so if the ad is correct that it has 1557 now, it's been super sized a bit.  Not an HD expert by any means...
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Tom on July 11, 2016, 05:44:27 PM
KBB math calculates high $9K retail and $7k trade-in.  If he's cashing out then he has to sell it.  KBB is a marketing tool for vehicle sales people.  YMMV.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: oldbike54 on July 11, 2016, 05:51:26 PM
KBB math calculates high $9K retail and $7k trade-in.  If he's cashing out then he has to sell it.  KBB is a marketing tool for vehicle sales people.  YMMV.

 Unfortunately that isn't really valid anymore since HD dealers are actually discounting new bikes
now . Maybe , and I say maybe $6.5K trade in on something like an Ultra .

 Dusty
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Kev m on July 11, 2016, 06:40:45 PM
Late to the party.

2006 was the last year of the TC88 (88 cu in./1442cc Twin Cam motor).

Starting in 2007 all big twins used the TC96 (96 cu in./1584cc) motor which shares the same stroke but gets its large displacement from a "bigger bore/larger piston."

There have always been bigger bore kits available from the factory or aftermarket for Harley motors, which sounds like what this guy had installed at some point.

Hopefully he also installed the new oil pump and hydraulic timing chain tensioners which also debuted in 07 because the spring loaded ones used on all the TC88's (except the one year only 2006 TC88 found only in Dyna models that also used the hydraulic tensioners) wear too quickly. Anyway if that wasn't done already that's another potential $1500 that should come off the value.

Not a bad looking bike except that horrible air cleaner.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Guzzistajohn on July 11, 2016, 07:01:56 PM
I hope he not a lurker here, he would probably set it on fire somewhere and report it stolen after seeing how bad it is  :evil:
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Kiwi_Roy on July 11, 2016, 07:11:18 PM
It's a big fat ugly pig.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Dilliw on July 11, 2016, 07:20:45 PM
Late to the party.

2006 was the last year of the TC88 (88 cu in./1442cc Twin Cam motor).

Starting in 2007 all big twins used the TC96 (96 cu in./1584cc) motor which shares the same stroke but gets its large displacement from a "bigger bore/larger piston."

There have always been bigger bore kits available from the factory or aftermarket for Harley motors, which sounds like what this guy had installed at some point.

Hopefully he also installed the new oil pump and hydraulic timing chain tensioners which also debuted in 07 because the spring loaded ones used on all the TC88's (except the one year only 2006 TC88 found only in Dyna models that also used the hydraulic tensioners) wear too quickly. Anyway if that wasn't done already that's another potential $1500 that should come off the value.

Not a bad looking bike except that horrible air cleaner.

Kev I had the '06 Dyna (not sure if it is the same as this model) and it had a known issue with the stator coming apart.  Also there was the service issue on the primary bearings but the Motor Co. was paying for those at least for the original owner. 

In the end when we sold the Dyna its value wasn't as good as a 2007.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Triple Jim on July 11, 2016, 07:20:59 PM
2006 was the last year of the TC88 (88 cu in./1442cc Twin Cam motor).

Starting in 2007 all big twins used the TC96 (96 cu in./1584cc) motor which shares the same stroke but gets its large displacement from a "bigger bore/larger piston."

Thanks Kev, I get it now. 

The listing ended, maybe it sold.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: power685 on July 11, 2016, 07:27:47 PM
It is way to easy to find Harley's with much lower miles on them in that price range.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: oldbike54 on July 11, 2016, 07:28:25 PM
I hope he not a lurker here, he would probably set it on fire somewhere and report it stolen after seeing how bad it is  :evil:

 Wouldn't you ? :evil: Seriously , not that this is a bad motorbike , but his idea  that it is worth $14K is silly . Talked to Ron , he said $6.5K trade in at most , $8.5K retail at a dealer . Oh , that is with the cam chain tensioner update , and a fresh service with tires . The Harley market ain't what is used to be .

 Dusty
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: leafman60 on July 11, 2016, 09:31:51 PM
This is at least the eighth attempt at selling this bike on Ebay this Spring.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Harley-Davidson-Touring-/182195207849?vxp=mtr
I'm surprised, because I think it's one of the coolest looking Harleys I've ever seen - and a fair price, so I thought it would sell right away.  But, no.  No takers.
Anyone have an opinion as to why this bike continues not to sell?
I've never owned one, and I don't know much about them.
(I'm not the owner; it's not mine.  I'm just curious.)
Thanks,
JQ

That's a Road King Custom from 2006.  Stock engine is an 88CID.  This bike has a popular big bore kit to punch it out to 95CID. Stock transmission is a 5-speed.

The RK Custom differed from the other Road Kings in that the suspension was about an inch lower. The tank console was different and, I believe the handlebars were different. It also had a little chrome wind spoiler.

Yes, the '09 and '10 frames were vastly improved but, so what? This RK Custom is not intended for curve strafing. It's a genuine cruiser and probably does just fine for that purpose as well as a little touring.

Taller shocks and a drive train stabilizer will help tame the suspension but, again, for most folks this may be fine just as is.

$8400 is a little below average retail book.  Looks like a nice bike at a reasonable price.

H-D is so dominant in the market that there is no telling why it hasn't sold as quickly as you may expect. Eventually, it will sell.   Ebay is loaded with H-D's. Yes, there's a lot of them out there but there are a lot of people out there buying them.

I'd much rather be trying to sell a used H-D than anything else.

One of my local H-D dealers is only a small to medium dealer and, still, they sell more motorcycles in a year than Guzzi sells in a year in ALL of the USA and Canada.

I had an '06 Road King Classic (not Custom).   It was a fine machine on a much higher level of reliability than all the European bikes I've owned. The 88CID motor was smooth on the road and I loved the torque. I sold the '06 and bought an '07 with the 96CID motor and new 6-speed. I liked it too.  All of them are fantastic machines.

I currently have a '12 Super G with a 103CID 6-speed and Ohlins suspension.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Kev m on July 12, 2016, 06:28:47 AM

Yonker's Motor Cop Training Video.

If you ever wanted to see a Harley dresser catching air off-road give this a look:

Off-road starts around 2:29, sand pits around 3:00, air at 3:48!

https://youtu.be/PanXb75Qqs4

Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: leafman60 on July 12, 2016, 06:53:05 AM
Yonker's Motor Cop Training Video.

If you ever wanted to see a Harley dresser catching air off-road give this a look:

Off-road starts around 2:29, sand pits around 3:00, air at 3:48!

https://youtu.be/PanXb75Qqs4

Yeah, I saw that last week.

Wow, looks like an adventure bike would be more appropriate!

.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Tom on July 12, 2016, 07:14:35 PM
I'm surprised that they didn't have full protective gear on.  Would they do the same if they owned the bikes?  Easy to take chances when you don't foot the bill.  Otherwise some good training.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Lannis on July 12, 2016, 08:24:42 PM
Thanks Kev, I get it now. 

The listing ended, maybe it sold.

It's been relisted with a "Buy It Now" of $8000.

If the bike needs to be sold, then an auction is the right way to do it.   If the seller doesn't mind holding on to it, then it can be listed as it's listed now.

I agree that it will take a while to sell.   Our Harley shop has hundreds of clean late-model trade-ins in the back warehouse.   Even though there are a lot of people buying Harleys, in a glutted market there will ALWAYS be bargains from people who need to sell their bike and either auction it or offer it at a price that will sell it TONIGHT.   They're not going to look at a "market-priced" bike.

Lannis
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Cool Runnings on July 12, 2016, 08:43:58 PM
Someone goes WOT at 7:00 am every morning by my house. The HD couldn't be any louder. Time to turn the sprinkler on him as soon as he turns the corner (stands by water valve).   :evil: Why must some of these people be complete jerks?
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Cool Runnings on July 12, 2016, 08:46:09 PM
FYI: going to have all kinds of fun blowing away Hardley's at Sturgis with the 8V Norge next Month.  :evil:
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: oldbike54 on July 12, 2016, 08:49:55 PM
FYI: going to have all kinds of fun blowing away Hardley's at Sturgis with the 8V Norge next Month.  :evil:

 No room anywhere near Sturgis to do that , plus , there will be at least a few big inch HD's that will be damn quick  :shocked:

 Dusty
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Cool Runnings on July 12, 2016, 10:03:05 PM
No room anywhere near Sturgis to do that , plus , there will be at least a few big inch HD's that will be damn quick  :shocked:

 Dusty

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: leafman60 on July 13, 2016, 07:02:18 AM
No room anywhere near Sturgis to do that , plus , there will be at least a few big inch HD's that will be damn quick  :shocked:

 Dusty

ditto

Again, some people labor under misinformation and old ideas about H-D's.

A good friend has big CVO Ultra Touring bike and he recently installed the H-D 117 kit.  These big bore kits are very reasonably priced. Another mutual riding friend has a late model BMW 1600GTL 6-cylinder.  The Harley will walk away from the BMW under acceleration.

Oh and by the way, he also has upgraded suspension on the big H-D and you better be really on your game if you try to stick with him on a curvy road! We had a Norge (!) rider trashed on a curve in NC trying to stay up with the H-D.

.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Triple Jim on July 13, 2016, 08:27:36 AM
...and you better be really on your game if you try to stick with him on a curvy road! We had a Norge (!) rider trashed on a curve in NC trying to stay up with the H-D.

What did he do to it to keep it from dragging parts in the curves?
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: leafman60 on July 13, 2016, 10:11:00 AM
What did he do to it to keep it from dragging parts in the curves?

As I said, suspension upgrade. Jack it up about 2 inches with premium shocks and fork cartridges.

My Super Glide has Ohlins suspension and will run with any European bike that I have.

Even the latest models H-D Touring bikes don't do too badly in stock form. It's all about what the customer wants.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Kev m on July 13, 2016, 10:12:20 AM
What did he do to it to keep it from dragging parts in the curves?

Well, he did say he has an upgraded suspension. I mean even the stock non-lowered ultras can lean about 32 degrees, so I imagine raising it a little would buy you a bit more.

That said, sounds like it was on the street, so at the end of the day rider skill (body shifting, picking the proper line etc.) probably played an important part.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Shorty on July 13, 2016, 11:30:47 AM
The advantage of Ebay is a nation wide audience. Works well with semi-rare bikes that are not available everywhere.  This guy is trying to sell a 10 year old, mildly modified Harley.....in Milwaukee :evil:. -
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: oldbike54 on July 13, 2016, 11:36:11 AM
The advantage of Ebay is a nation wide audience. Works well with semi-rare bikes that are not available everywhere.  This guy is trying to sell a 10 year old, mildly modified Harley.....in Milwaukee :evil:. -

 Probably better there than Menomonee Falls  :rolleyes:

 Dusty
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Cool Runnings on July 13, 2016, 12:04:52 PM
ditto

Again, some people labor under misinformation and old ideas about H-D's.

A good friend has big CVO Ultra Touring bike and he recently installed the H-D 117 kit.  These big bore kits are very reasonably priced. Another mutual riding friend has a late model BMW 1600GTL 6-cylinder.  The Harley will walk away from the BMW under acceleration.

Oh and by the way, he also has upgraded suspension on the big H-D and you better be really on your game if you try to stick with him on a curvy road! We had a Norge (!) rider trashed on a curve in NC trying to stay up with the H-D.

.

2013 Harley-Davidson CVO Road Glide 3.7 12.49 sec. @ 104.83 mph 107 bhp 824 lb

2010 Moto Guzzi Stelvio ABS 3.91 11.94 sec. @ 111.2 mph 104 bhp 612 lb(wet)  :evil:
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Farmer Dan on July 13, 2016, 12:05:09 PM
Harley made the mistake of increasing production now you can find a new or used one anywhere.  People are starting to realize there are better bikes available at a better price.  14K for a 10 year old bike!  I could buy a brand new and better bike for that.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Triple Jim on July 13, 2016, 12:07:29 PM
I follow you leafman60 and Kev m.  I guess sufficient cornering clearance is subjective.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Cool Runnings on July 13, 2016, 12:08:01 PM
Harley made the mistake of increasing production now you can find a new or used one anywhere.  People are starting to realize there are better bikes available at a better price.  14K for a 10 year old bike!  I could buy a brand new and better bike for that.

The new Harley motors are designed to last around 35k before things start going south.  :evil:

Here we go…..

The problem is the design of the cam chain system.  It uses plastic “shoes” riding on the cam chains that can (and do) wear out. Harley has made some changes in later model bikes, but even with the new hydraulic tensioning system, it is not a true fix.  What is the problem?  The shoes rub against the two chains and the plastic shoes wear out.  When they wear in extreme cases, there will be metal to metal contact and this grinding creates metal shavings that can result in a catastrophic engine failure. If not caught soon enough, this can be so bad that the entire engine can be destroyed; cams, pistons, crankshaft and even engine cases broken.  It is a wickedly serious possible engine problem.  Be aware… it can fail as soon 15,000 miles (in extreme cases).  Even the newer hydraulic system can fail at 50,000 miles or less.  The cam chain tensioners have a section in every service manual that covers the Twin Cam engines and is very enlightening.


http://blog.jpcycles.com/2012/11/i-love-harley-davidson-but-you-must-know-this/
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: oldbike54 on July 13, 2016, 12:17:53 PM
2013 Harley-Davidson CVO Road Glide 3.7 12.49 sec. @ 104.83 mph 107 bhp 824 lb

2010 Moto Guzzi Stelvio ABS 3.91 11.94 sec. @ 111.2 mph 104 bhp 612 lb(wet)  :evil:

 A K1600 GTL is capable of 11.7 sec 1/4 mile times . 160 HP will make even a heavy bike fast .

 Dusty
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Lannis on July 13, 2016, 12:49:26 PM
ditto

Again, some people labor under misinformation and old ideas about H-D's.

A good friend has big CVO Ultra Touring bike and he recently installed the H-D 117 kit.  These big bore kits are very reasonably priced. Another mutual riding friend has a late model BMW 1600GTL 6-cylinder.  The Harley will walk away from the BMW under acceleration.

Oh and by the way, he also has upgraded suspension on the big H-D and you better be really on your game if you try to stick with him on a curvy road! We had a Norge (!) rider trashed on a curve in NC trying to stay up with the H-D.

.

I labor under an inability to put trust in any anecdotal data about "How Fast My Motorcycle Is" that doesn't have a timing slip with it.

Along with any data about "He's on a Really Fast Bike" that isn't from a track.   Data from the street is more about degrees of idiocy, risk-taking, and bones with morphine already in them than anything about actual rider skills ...

Lannis 
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Kev m on July 13, 2016, 12:53:22 PM
2013 Harley-Davidson CVO Road Glide 3.7 12.49 sec. @ 104.83 mph 107 bhp 824 lb

2010 Moto Guzzi Stelvio ABS 3.91 11.94 sec. @ 111.2 mph 104 bhp 612 lb(wet)  :evil:

Well, not for nothing but the 2013 CVO was only a 110" (1802cc) motor.

And Leaf did say his friend had a 117" (1917cc) motor.

And I'd expect a stock CVO to be emissions compliant, which can mean a big hit in hp.

So not exactly apples to apples.
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: arveno on July 13, 2016, 12:53:31 PM
The new Harley motors are designed to last around 35k before things start going south.  :evil:

Here we go�..

The problem is the design of the cam chain system.  It uses plastic �shoes� riding on the cam chains that can (and do) wear out. Harley has made some changes in later model bikes, but even with the new hydraulic tensioning system, it is not a true fix.  What is the problem?  The shoes rub against the two chains and the plastic shoes wear out.  When they wear in extreme cases, there will be metal to metal contact and this grinding creates metal shavings that can result in a catastrophic engine failure. If not caught soon enough, this can be so bad that the entire engine can be destroyed; cams, pistons, crankshaft and even engine cases broken.  It is a wickedly serious possible engine problem.  Be aware� it can fail as soon 15,000 miles (in extreme cases).  Even the newer hydraulic system can fail at 50,000 miles or less.  The cam chain tensioners have a section in every service manual that covers the Twin Cam engines and is very enlightening.


http://blog.jpcycles.com/2012/11/i-love-harley-davidson-but-you-must-know-this/

gear driven cams and te problem is solved, easy peasy..... gee........
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Kev m on July 13, 2016, 12:56:41 PM
The new Harley motors are designed to last around 35k before things start going south.  :evil:

Here we go…..

The problem is the design of the cam chain system.  It uses plastic “shoes” riding on the cam chains that can (and do) wear out. Harley has made some changes in later model bikes, but even with the new hydraulic tensioning system, it is not a true fix.  What is the problem?  The shoes rub against the two chains and the plastic shoes wear out.  When they wear in extreme cases, there will be metal to metal contact and this grinding creates metal shavings that can result in a catastrophic engine failure. If not caught soon enough, this can be so bad that the entire engine can be destroyed; cams, pistons, crankshaft and even engine cases broken.  It is a wickedly serious possible engine problem.  Be aware… it can fail as soon 15,000 miles (in extreme cases).  Even the newer hydraulic system can fail at 50,000 miles or less.  The cam chain tensioners have a section in every service manual that covers the Twin Cam engines and is very enlightening.


http://blog.jpcycles.com/2012/11/i-love-harley-davidson-but-you-must-know-this/

Uh, old news.

1. That hasn't applied to new Harleys since 2007 when they replaced the TC88 motor with the TC96. The TC88 used spring loaded timing chain tensioners which were basically too strong and promoted wear. The TC96 uses hydraulic controlled tensioners that varies and better matches tensioning force to ideal needs in during operation.

2. Even if you have TC88 with the spring loaded tensioners (and you CAN retrofit the new system) it ONLY really means that you need to add inspection (small cover, a few bolts) to the maintenance routine to decide when to replace them.

Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Kev m on July 13, 2016, 12:57:34 PM
gear driven cams and te problem is solved, easy peasy..... gee........
Ha ha true, or that!  :thumb:
Title: Re: Harley help?
Post by: Cool Runnings on July 13, 2016, 04:02:06 PM
I labor under an inability to put trust in any anecdotal data about "How Fast My Motorcycle Is" that doesn't have a timing slip with it.

Along with any data about "He's on a Really Fast Bike" that isn't from a track.   Data from the street is more about degrees of idiocy, risk-taking, and bones with morphine already in them than anything about actual rider skills ...

Lannis

Problem is, Harley's have to 'short shift', tell me some big Harley twins will red line at 8,000 rpm? Then again, our BIG BLOCKS run of  steam @ 8K while the likes of FJR's pull strong all the way to 11k.  :evil: