Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: boatdetective on July 11, 2016, 10:30:48 PM
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OK- so I have the itch. I feel like I have too many bikes (I know, silly me). I'm hoping to sell two and replace them with one. So, I have Gina the V50- may keep just for sentimental reasons- but selling still a possibility. There's the 1200 sport. Great bike, but not much wind protection and no real options to improve that. Then there's the Shiver- great bike, but doesn't fill the spot for highway use.
I'm trying to find a mid sized sport tourer that will be planted on the highway with some windscreen- yet nimble enough around town. It has to be able to mount hard cases. I'm not sold on the gigantic ADV bikes. Seems a bit much to me. I am OK with working on my own bikes- but I really don't want to go through another Guzzi "re engineer 12 things so the bike works the way it should have originally from the factory" experience. I would like to have nice suspension over high horsepower (the suspension is what I miss most about the Griso).
Yes- I know about the Norge - and it's not on the list. I've narrowed things down to the latest version of the Honda VFR 800 and the BMW F800GT. Seems like the BMW ergos may be easier around town. The Aprilia 1200 caponord is much larger- but certainly seems capable.
Anyone have experience with the VFR or F800? Any thoughts on other candidates?
Thanks!
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Ducati ST3.
Guzzi V11 LeMans.
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I faced a similar question and bought a Ducati ST3.
Mike
(http://thumb.ibb.co/miqAaa/4301_2004_ducati_st3.jpg) (http://ibb.co/miqAaa)
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At least take a look at the 800 CC Triumph , yeah , kind of an ADV bike , but the owners seem to be pleased with them .
Dusty
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Aprilia Futura?
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Triumph Sprint?
Yamaha FJ-09?
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At least take a look at the 800 CC Triumph , yeah , kind of an ADV bike , but the owners seem to be pleased with them .
Dusty
Test rode one a while ago the motor is still obviously based on a 600 super sport motor yes they've lengthen the stroke and done various things to make it make more torque than a 600 super sport which it does. It still only has more torque than a 600 super sport.
KTM super duke GT is high on the list of bikes to test ride soon.
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At least take a look at the 800 CC Triumph , yeah , kind of an ADV bike , but the owners seem to be pleased with them .
Dusty
Good call. Met a guy on the Beartooth on an 800XC. He was leading a pack of riders from Panama to Alaska. Seems like a very capable bike. I have plenty of respect for Triumph. I believe this bike has very nice WP suspenders as well.
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Charlie mentioned the Futura. There is one for sale in the classifieds as we speak and I know the owner. In fact I have ridden that bike. It probably checks all the boxes you request. John is near Lexington Kentucky. He bought a Stelvio but I was surprised to see this for sale. It is a very nice bike!
John Henry
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The Ducati ST range. The 4s has more top end, the 3 is supposed to be better at low rpms but my 4s is smooth all the way through. There's a styling change in '04 for the 4s so take your preference. An amazing bike if you're willing to learn how to maintain it and don't mind the chain. Here's a forum: http://www.ducati.ms/forums/40-sport-touring/
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Yes- I know about the Norge - and it's not on the list. I've narrowed things down to the latest version of the Honda VFR 800 and the BMW F800GT. Seems like the BMW ergos may be easier around town. The Aprilia 1200 caponord is much larger- but certainly seems capable.
Anyone have experience with the VFR or F800? Any thoughts on other candidates?
Thanks!
I haven't ridden the latest VFR800, but, I do have a 2013 F800GT. I sold my Breva 1100 and 2001 VFR800 to buy it. The ergos are between the VFR800 and the Breva. More lean than the Breva, less than the VFR. I find ergos to be perfect, esp. for my back issues. The foot pegs directly below my butt -- perfect.
While I love the V4 sound (esp. with aftermarket exhaust), I'm not a fan of chain maintenance. The F800GT is belt drive, vs. the VFR's chain -- win BMW.
The BMW touring cases are nice. The mounts pretty much disappear visually when they are not on the bike. I have a Hepco & Becker top case mount on it, since I already have the H&B top cases. I used the F800ST mount (yes it fits). It looks better than the one that they list for the F800GT. The case that BMW sells for it is small, only about 30 liters IIRC. I have not seen the VFR luggage in person, though, I'm sure you can get H&B or Givi mounts for it too. The only complaint that I had about the H&B side cases on my VFR800 is that they stuck out quite a bit. I'm sure that Givi are the same. For that matter, while the BMW cases are form fit to the F800GT, they're wide. Total width is about 38 inches, vs. 31 or 32 inches for the 30 liter H&B cases on my V7 Special.
Fuel capacity is slightly lacking, only 4 gallons, but, it is efficient. I almost never get less than 50 MPG, usually 53-55 in the summer, up to 60 w/o any luggage mounted. In the summer, the low fuel light comes on at 175 miles. I usually fill up at around 200 miles. Winter MPG with the colder temps, and the larger Madstad windshield installed in place of the stock on, drops to 47-48.
I've had zero trouble with the bike, but, I'm only at 11k miles on it. I bought it used, last August with 5k miles on it.
Handling is very good, as are the brakes. The ABS works great (yes, I've tried it), but, is not intrusive. It has plenty of power for me, though, coming off the B11, I downshift twice if I want to pass in a big hurry. Power delivery is nice and smooth. The torque is pretty linear form 2k to 8k RPM. It is as quick, or a little quicker than the B11, though, it is a higher revving engine, though not has high as the VFR. Torque is comparable to the VFR, though, the VFR has a bit more top end, as that torque carries through to about 10k RPM (redline is 11,500). I almost never revved the VFR over 9k though, as you need to be doing to pretty ridiculous speeds to use that part of the tach. Redline in first gear is about 65 MPH IIRC.
I'd definitely recommend test riding both and buy the bike that calls to you.
Regarding the Ducati ST3 and ST4, I'm sure that they're great bikes, but, consider the maintenance. The F800GT has an 18k mile valve clearance interval. Modern liquid-cooled Ducatis have a similar interval, but, the ST3 and ST4 need their valves done much more often (6k miles, IIRC), and being Desmo valves, are more labor intensive (two shims per valve, open, and close).
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My friend sold his Triumph and replaced it with a '15 Super Tenere. He seems happy with the switch.
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The local Honda dealer has a VFR with more dust on it than the moon. A couple of BMW's come along for the Sunday ride. I think the Aprilia would be the best suited. I have zero complaints with the V11.
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Like jas67 I currently own an F800GT and I have owned previous iterations of VFR800's. I agree with most of his assessment. The F-bike, a 2014, was purchased new two years ago, and now has 19K miles on the odo. My VFR's did have significantly more power, but I find the HP of the BMW to be more than adequate. The torque curves of the two bikes seem to be similar; plenty down low. While both bikes have good brakes and handle well in the twisties, I find the BMW to be more nimble; it is also easier to handle at parking-lot speed and while pushing it around the garage.
Gas mileage on the VFR's was in low forty mpg; for the F-bike in the low fifty mpg with a range slightly over 200 miles. I have side-cases and a Givi trunk on the F-bike; use it for short rides, day-long rides and cross-country trips. In fact, I recently returned from a 5,500 mile tour of the southern-central Rocky Mt. states on the BMW; the bike performed very well. I sold the VFR's and bought the F800 because my aging body (I'm 67) could no longer tolerate the riding position of the VFR's. I did not want a big, heavy sport-tourer like an FJR.
The F800GT has been problem-free. However, it took some mods to get the wind protection suitable for touring; I have a Givi touring windscreen plus an X-screen on top. The bike does throw off some heat to the thighs; bothers some riders, but not a big deal for me. The only negative that remains about the bike for me is that the motor feels a bit buzzy over 75 mph; the VFR's were smoother at high speed.
Get a long test ride on both.
Jon
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I just took the plunge on a MV Agusta Turismo Veloce Lusso. Can't say enough good things about it. It meets your criteria in spades. It's quick and agile, yet stable at high speeds. Just as good in the city as on the open road. Extremely comfortable. Maybe not the greatest mile muncher, but for my west coast twisty road adventures, I don't know if there's anything better.
About 5 years ago I owned an F800ST. I liked it. Overall great bike, but really devoid of character, suspension too soft to be really sporty, and very cramped leg room. The F800GT seems to be much improved over the ST, but I suspect it would still be rather lacking in character. Then again, character isn't necessarily what one wants/needs in a touring bike.
Negatives of the MVTV:
-- Expensive? Maybe. But by the time you add hard cases to other bikes, the price differential is less. And the MV luggage system is really a thing of beauty, with the cases less wide than the handlebars. I got an extremely good deal on mine, which is probably in part due to the bankruptcy and the need to move inventory.
-- Bankruptcy? You'll have to reach peace of mind about this. My feeling is that with its brand recognition and MV making great bikes like the TV and the new Brutale, someone will pick up the pieces even if it doesn't stay in the familia.
-- Reliablity? I haven't heard of any major reliability issues, though with all those electronics, I do worry about getting caught out on the road without an MV expert nearby.
In sum, though it's expensive, I think it's actually a great value for one of the best bikes on the road today.
I still need a Guzzi however.
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VFR1200X- a VFR with range and a sweet engine. New to the US this year. A tad porky
Ducati Multistrada- wow, they nailed it with this one. 160+HP, 15k mile Desmo service, amazing engine, comfortable.
FJR, Connie, etc- standard Japan engineering, will run forever, not exactly awe inspiring
KTM super duke GT or super adventure- when too much isn't enough
I'm sold on the adv style for long range touring. I've done it on a KTM 990 ADV and now a Stelvio. I like the upright seating for long stints.
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Regarding the Ducati ST3 and ST4, I'm sure that they're great bikes, but, consider the maintenance. The F800GT has an 18k mile valve clearance interval. Modern liquid-cooled Ducatis have a similar interval, but, the ST3 and ST4 need their valves done much more often (6k miles, IIRC), and being Desmo valves, are more labor intensive (two shims per valve, open, and close).
Ducati's STs are the benchmark SPORT-touring bikes. Yes, maintenance is a little more involved, but the rewards are many. If you're into what they provide, that is. A BMW F800 pales in every comparison of handling, performance, and feel.
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BMW R1200RT an option? Very nice bike...not sure if it's too big for what you're looking for, but silky smooth, all day riding, nimble enough to throw around the twisties and very easy around town.
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At least take a look at the 800 CC Triumph , yeah , kind of an ADV bike , but the owners seem to be pleased with them .
Dusty
:1: If you don't test ride one of these you'll be sorry. IMHO the Triumph triples going back to at least '03 are some of the best and most versatile engines built. The 800's are available in many forms, including factory lowered, and a lot of available extras. Probably my next and last bike, when I decide to let my Sprint ST go.
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You mentioned the Norge is not on your list. Seems like it might meet your needs and the new ones are pretty well sorted. Just curious what gets it crossed off your list ?
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:1: If you don't test ride one of these you'll be sorry. IMHO the Triumph triples going back to at least '03 are some of the best and most versatile engines built. The 800's are available in many forms, including factory lowered, and a lot of available extras. Probably my next and last bike, when I decide to let my Sprint ST go.
What he said. Triumph has it all together now. Mine's been great. Js
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One of the coffee klutch guys as a VFR1200 and rides the snot out of it but recently picked up an older (2004?) SV650 and that is pretty much all we see him on now.
I'd have you take a look see at the CB1100. She is a sleeper, very low key when out and about and super easy to ride in town. Get the rpms up and the frisky red head comes out. Being a true standard, she does a lot of different things.
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I put >80,000 miles on Honda ST1100 and ST1300. Loved them both.
Both bikes were fast, comfortable, and bulletproof.
Of the two, I preferred the ST1100.
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BMW R1200RT an option? Very nice bike...not sure if it's too big for what you're looking for, but silky smooth, all day riding, nimble enough to throw around the twisties and very easy around town.
Don't forget about the R1200RT's lighter weight sister, the R1200RS. These water cooled boxers make some serious torque.
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Well, this all depends. What do you mean by wind/weather protection? When I say it I mean that I can create a bubble of air around me and the helmet with maybe only the shoulders getting some air. I also want the air diverted around my legs, or at least my knees. There are very few lighter bikes that will do that. F800GT comes close. The boring Honda NT700V (Deauville) works with an aftermarket screen (the Honda Accord of motorcycles).
Once you get past those two you end up dealing with the 600lb bikes. ST's, RT's, Triumph Trophy, FJR, Connie, etc.
But, if by wind pretection you mean just getting the pressure off your chest, then the whole world opens up to you, including the whole range of ADV bikes.
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I am very impressed with my R1200RS. Serious motor, great handling, comfortable. One of the few sport touring bikes with an emphasis on sport. A few too many electronic doo dads for my taste, but they don't detract from the ride. Their integrated GPS is very well done if you are in to them. I've got about 8000 miles and not a glitch. The new water head engine is nothing like any of the past boxers. Smooth throughout the rev range and a ton of torque.
Some may find the ergonomics a bit too sporty, but I think they are about perfect for the bike. It is made for 300 - 400 mile days through the twisties. I'll be on my way to Eastern Oregon this weekend to do just that.
Biggest problem? High speeds are effortless, and tickets too easy to get.
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I've done 11k miles on my F800GT that I bought new. The other 2 responders are spot on in there comments. I'm 5'9" with 31 inch inseam and i could use a little more legroom at my age. Younger person would probably have no problem. Does have a "lean forward" riding position. Bike is a lot more "sport" than "touring". If you plan on a lot of touring expect to upgrade the seat and windsheild. Has great power from 5500 rpm up but not much low end. Or it's geared a little high. Easy to stall.
I do like it but not sure I'd reccomendation it for touring.
I'm taking a hard look at a versys 1000 since local dealer doesn't want to sell his Norge's. 1.5 inch taller than the Beemer, more leg room and more upright riding position.
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An SP1000 NT. Easy around town. Does highway mileage with no problems. Has a full fairing for the inclement weather. Parts readily available. Easy to work on. Great forum to help new owners. :grin:
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An SP1000 NT. Easy around town. Does highway mileage with no problems. Has a full fairing for the inclement weather. Parts readily available. Easy to work on. Great forum to help new owners. :grin:
:1: this or
Post 80's BMW R100RS
I like simple machines.
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I think the friend in Sandpoint might sell his. He's having a hard time getting behind the windscreen. Arthritis plus he's too tall for it. One of the few Beemers, I'd consider buying. The R90S being the other one.
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One of the coffee klutch guys as a VFR1200 and rides the snot out of it but recently picked up an older (2004?) SV650 and that is pretty much all we see him on now.
I'd have you take a look see at the CB1100. She is a sleeper, very low key when out and about and super easy to ride in town. Get the rpms up and the frisky red head comes out. Being a true standard, she does a lot of different things.
I've always admired the CB1100. Fabulous looking and painful attention to detail. There's a custom out there that is rumored to go into production. I'll have to look it up. A bit ore of an "angry" look. However, the original red bike is wonderful to look at.
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Great variety of responses- thank you! Once again, this group shows a great depth of experience as well as a willingness to accept all types of machines.
I'm on a road trip for work (in a Ford🙁). Pulled into the motel and there's an older guy on an F800GS with Iowa plates. Totally experienced road warrior. The bike has serious wabi and Caribou /Pelican bags.
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:1: for the ST3.
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Great variety of responses- thank you! Once again, this group shows a great depth of experience as well as a willingness to accept all types of machines.
I'm on a road trip for work (in a Ford🙁). Pulled into the motel and there's an older guy on an F800GS with Iowa plates. Totally experienced road warrior. The bike has serious wabi and Caribou /Pelican bags.
Get an old Kwacker connie (cheap as hell). :evil:
(http://a4.ec-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/112/576a339358aee25b1462ea86c8b9051a/l.jpg)
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Well, if dreaming, SPIII.
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What's wrong with the Breva?
(https://cdn2.cycletrader.com/v1/media/576a23168cbd11af181b14f7.jpg?width=1024&height=768&quality=70)
http://www.bmwmcofokc.com/default.asp?page=xPreOwnedInventoryDetail&id=1834737&p=1&s=Year&d=A&t=preowned&fr=xPreOwnedInventory (http://www.bmwmcofokc.com/default.asp?page=xPreOwnedInventoryDetail&id=1834737&p=1&s=Year&d=A&t=preowned&fr=xPreOwnedInventory)
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As many former first generation Concours owners have discovered, the Honda NT 700 V is a fine touring bike which weighs about 100 pounds less than the Concours, handles better though not quite as quick. Cheap, reliable (it's a Honda after all) and for those preferring European iron, it's made by Montessa in Spain. Worth a look.
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So many variables.
Are you looking new? used? and how old? Price range? What is medium sized to you? Weight? Size? REAL fairing or 1/2 fairing? Why not a Norge? Depending on how big you are will determine how 'big' a bike feels to you, and how stable. IMO, the BMW f800 though a nice bike would not be for someone over 170lbs for more than a commuter. Same for VFR.
You mention the F800 and VFR, both new, so I am guessing you are willing to lay down some coin.
The only new Japanese ST with any soul are the FJR (likely too big), and the FZ1(sets up very nice with bags, and Canada had lowers available as well), maybe the VFR with a nice can and new fuel map, but the rest are so bland....... generic, vanilla...........
New: Triumph Tiger, Aprilia Caponord with the travel pack, Multi Strada are all great midsize options, with great motors with a bit of the Adventure thing, but not like the goofy GS.
The R 1200 GT or RS are midsize BMW ST, and very nice. The Honda VC700 and Suzuki GSX 1000 get good press. A buddy of mine got the MV Turismo VELOCE 800. Is kinda weird, but he loves it. Too small for me.
Used: Gen 2 FJR, Sprint ST, Gen 1 Concours C10, are all good options as well.
It really is what YOU want..... GO ride and buy.
You need to go ride!
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To answer your question, yes, I've had experience on a F800.
Rode one 800 miles from Munich into Italy, Switzerland, Austria, over a few different passes. Great bike plenty of punch, only the seat was a little high for me. The belt drive seemed flawless.
No experience with the Honda.
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My brother had the GS version and liked it. It was his 'beginner' bike so now he has the boxer GS. He can flat foot the big GS where I cannot. The little GS was quite a bit faster than my T5.
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This is a category that has always interested me, and in which I've dabbled, but I always walk away from because in the end it doesn't suit my desires in reality as much as it does in theory.
The examples I've owned were on the periphery - R1100RSa, Breva 1100, Buell S3T.
Obviously FOR ME I've always prioritized EASE OF SERVICE, so everything had easily accessible valves or hydraulic lifters, and a belt or shaft.
If I had to make the choice again today traits would probably still factor highly in the discussion.
I mean, IF I WASN'T worried about service - then I would probably chose the Ducati.
Though IF I was going for practicality - then I would seriously consider the Honda NT700.
Of course then I'd likely wake up, say screw them both, and get either a T120 or new Harley CX with bags....or if I WAS SERIOUSLY thinking about highway travel and pounding out miles, then I'd just buy an RK.... so yeah, other than reflecting on what traits are important to YOU, I'm no help.
But have fun, I think it's hard to go wrong in this category from the point of view of buying a bad bike. So I guess you really just need to figure out what speaks to you.
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i'll add a blessing for the NT700V. not spectacular in any way but a really good tourer. front suspension is a little soft but otherwise a great bike. low maintenance. only negative is the integrated bags. after owning them i'd prefer the detachable bags.
if you're stuck on a beemer the f800S or f800ST msy be a better choice then the GT. same bike obviously but more of a tourer.
of course the GT is such a beauty.
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Not sure where the Sport part of a Sport Touring bike is for the NT700V
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Not sure where the Sport part of a Sport Touring bike is for the NT700V
Well, that's up to BoatD.
One MIGHT argue that performance is all relative.
The NT shares the following traits with a typical Sport/Tourer:
1. Relatively light weight.
2. Relatively nimble performance.
3. Some wind protection.
4. Some luggage/cargo capacities/options.
Sure it's not a SPORT-bike, but I'm not certain I read into BD's desires that it HAD to be a high performer in that area.
But if that is one of his concerns, then ok, the NT is probably not on the list.
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Suzuki SV650 or the Yamaha FZ07. Both mid-size twins. Good reviews for general use. Get one and outfit for your type of riding. Easy to use in town. You have to get past the commercial.
www.motorcyvideos/on-two-wheels?video=x4i693gclistonline.com/
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The NT700V is a really good all around bike. It is great for in town. Can handle curves at moderate speeds (at least as good as any non-adjustable suspension Tonti and there are after market shocks/springs). Really good wind protection if you get a larger windscreen. Not too tall and there is a lowering kit for it as well. Custom seats from the regular places (mine was done by Russell).
Not a speed demon but quite adequate for 90% of riding.
I have never liked removable cases. I want them there cause I always need to carry something, not to take them off and leave them at home. And the times when touring they get dirty. Take them off the bike into the room and you track dirt everywhere, including on you as you carry them. And the removable cases are like really heavy luggage. I just pack my stuff in a small duffle and shove it in the case, leave the cases outside.
You can get the oversize lids for the NT, which means you can put a FF helmet in the side case. Also lowers if you want to keep the wind off your feet (only really needed in cold/wet weather).
Some will say it gets tossed around in the wind. But, it is better than my T5 with the fairing on it. Feels fairly well planted at speed, even up to it's top end somewhere just south of 120mph. I was following a couple of cars (Audi and Mercedes) one morning out here and was surprised to look down and see we were going over 105mph.
Reliable. Several here in the states have over 100k on them. One has been in the Iron Butt rally twice now and several have done the shorter Iron Butt runs. At least one has been to the north and south end of the Americas. But, if it needs to be worked on chances are the Honda mechanic has never seen one before. They are more rare than Guzzi's.
It is on the touring side of sport touring. If you want more sport this isn't it. And, they haven't sold them in the states for several years now.
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I'm right there. Keeping my '81 cafe thing, but need a rider fr retirement. My shortlist;
MV Tourismo Veloce Lusso, for reasons listed above. But I'd add that This is a lightweight nimble bike that suits smaller roads that comprise much of NorCal riding. 800 cc's is enough and hard cases are a must. Check the MV forum which now has enough posts to indicate the biased early lovefest is over. Actual issues discussed.
BMW R1200RS checks all the boxes, but it is big and not less costly than the MV. Good local dealer and shaft drive, some character.
Ducati ST3 or ST4, (S preferred), whatever is a bargain.
Looking for same thoughts you are.
Best of luck.
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I think you are suffering from the same delusion that I have- some mystical bike that does all things well. I am not sure that bike exists. You're describing several different requirements that are orthogonal. Good handling in town (low speed) suggests light bikes, while stability on the highway is heavier bikes.
So, I propose the following- there is nothing wrong with having two or more bikes. Ride one long distance, the other in town.
My criticisms of other suggestions (of bikes that I have had)-
Ducati ST- I had an ST4s. Brilliant bike, but the turning radius was a full two lane street. Hard to work on the bike because the fairing is a pain to take off. The range was too low for that bike also, just over a hundred miles if I recall. Super fun to ride, though and it sounded glorious.
Ducati Multistrada 1200- my current ride (ok, no one has suggested this one). It's a pretty decent jack of all trades. Goes like stink, handles on rails. Doesn't sound as good as the ST4s. Weird lookin' beak on the front. Shitty rear brake. I like the multi over the ST because I sit upright and it doesn't put strain on my elbow. It is bigger than a 'mid size' bike. Also, very tall.
Guzzi Breva- wife has a 750. Also a decent all-rounder, but not particularly sporty. I managed to ride one from St. Louis to Maine and back without too much discomfort, so they have that going for them. My wife's has been absolutely stone axe reliable. Very short.
I enjoy riding the SP and G5 Guzzi's but they are getting kind of old, so will often require more attention. They are heavy bikes also and not particularly fast. But they are fun to ride.
So, I would suggest getting a Multistrada for trips and mid-1950's or so Guzzi Galleto for around town. Bet you didn't see that coming.
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Good handling in town (low speed) suggests light bikes, while stability on the highway is heavier bikes.
I'm not sure I accept this premise.
I will admit that I think it's EASIER to make a heavier bike feel stable on the highway as it seems to be a factor, just like center of gravity and wheelbase.
But our 696 is extremely stable on the highway and it is a very light, short wheelbase bike without a particularly low center of gravity.
I think therefore that there must be other, more important factors in stability.
I would guess that quality of suspension, along with frame/steering architecture, and possibly even tire size/type/compounds play more important roles.
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Ducati ST- I had an ST4s. Brilliant bike, but the turning radius was a full two lane street. Hard to work on the bike because the fairing is a pain to take off. The range was too low for that bike also, just over a hundred miles if I recall. Super fun to ride, though and it sounded glorious.
Ducati ST fuel tank capacity 5.5 gallons.
So, even if you were getting only 30 mpg, it would go 150 miles...
If you were getting 40 mpg, it would go 200 miles.
Yes, the fairing is a pain. They all are. Just look at the Norge. It has a fairing that's a pain.
Yes, maintenance can be expensive at a dealership.
Yes, it's the benchmark sport-touring bike. A sportsbike with bags. The way it should be.
A 450 lbs sporty bike with a decent fairing, nice luggage, comfortable seating, and a killer V-twin engine!
:bike-037:
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I'm not sure I accept this premise.
Me, either.
My 485 lbs Sport 1100 is one of the most Stable motorcycles I've ridden at speed.
I think a big part is aerodynamics.
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A bike that seems to get overlooked is the relatively new Kawasaki Versys 1000. IThey seem to have been aiming for a cross between and ADV bike and standard. Comes with luggage and priced very reasonably at about $12k. I test rode one recently and although I didn't buy it (got an FJR) it would seem to meet your criteria very well. The most outstanding thing about it was that it had loads of power and torque and felt lighter than a 650. It carries its weight as well as any bike I have ridden making it a great all around be machine. It only narrowly lost out to the FJR, but my criteria are maybe different that yours.
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>Ducati ST fuel tank capacity 5.5 gallons.
And it's metal. Magnetic tank bags welcome.
ST3 sits nicely between the easy to work on, but sedate ST2 and the wild and wooly ST4.
No flaking rocker issues, a nice broad spread of power and fewer valves to maintain than the 4.
Ducati's best street motor imho
M
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OK- so I have the itch. I feel like I have too many bikes (I know, silly me). I'm hoping to sell two and replace them with one. So, I have Gina the V50- may keep just for sentimental reasons- but selling still a possibility. There's the 1200 sport. Great bike, but not much wind protection and no real options to improve that. Then there's the Shiver- great bike, but doesn't fill the spot for highway use.
I'm trying to find a mid sized sport tourer that will be planted on the highway with some windscreen- yet nimble enough around town. It has to be able to mount hard cases. I'm not sold on the gigantic ADV bikes. Seems a bit much to me. I am OK with working on my own bikes- but I really don't want to go through another Guzzi "re engineer 12 things so the bike works the way it should have originally from the factory" experience. I would like to have nice suspension over high horsepower (the suspension is what I miss most about the Griso).
Yes- I know about the Norge - and it's not on the list. I've narrowed things down to the latest version of the Honda VFR 800 and the BMW F800GT. Seems like the BMW ergos may be easier around town. The Aprilia 1200 caponord is much larger- but certainly seems capable.
Anyone have experience with the VFR or F800? Any thoughts on other candidates?
Thanks!
I keep my Beemer Roadster largely because it checks all the boxes you mention.
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Clearly the best option available to you, is a Motus.
I recommend the MST-R. All the beautiful engine characteristics of the Guzzi, but with a bit more...."muchness".
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/2012/03/2013-motus-mstr.jpg)
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I'm not sure I accept this premise.
I will admit that I think it's EASIER to make a heavier bike feel stable on the highway as it seems to be a factor, just like center of gravity and wheelbase.
But our 696 is extremely stable on the highway and it is a very light, short wheelbase bike without a particularly low center of gravity.
I think therefore that there must be other, more important factors in stability.
I would guess that quality of suspension, along with frame/steering architecture, and possibly even tire size/type/compounds play more important roles.
There are many factors that contribute to stability. Of course!
Perhaps I should have said 'much lighter'. My around town bike is a KTM350 (~250 lbs), which is just frightening above about 65 mph. I guess the knobbies and height don't really contribute to a planted feel at that speed, eh?
The difference I was thinking was between something like my wife's Breva750 and my Eldorado. The Breva is just a lot easier to drive and I prefer it in town. The Breva is really nice on the highway as well but I rather like the heavier Eldo for long distance.
Anyhow, I believe we are in agreement here.
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Clearly the best option available to you, is a Motus.
I recommend the MST-R. All the beautiful engine characteristics of the Guzzi, but with a bit more...."muchness".
(http://thekneeslider.com/images/2012/03/2013-motus-mstr.jpg)
You sir, are a scallywag!
Now that I think about it, I'm trying to imagine Witchy as a lad. I'm SURE your mother called you a "rascal".
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There were times that "rascal" would have been high praise.
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Flip reckons a Trimph Sprint, I did 70,000 on a '07 Sprint ST and would not have sold it except wanted shaft drive by then. They're cheap ( inexpensive) strong, pullhard at medium revs, they have 85% of their peak torque @ 5,000 rpm and they sound great. Also hundreds on the 'net
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Me, either.
My 485 lbs Sport 1100 is one of the most Stable motorcycles I've ridden at speed.
I think a big part is aerodynamics.
My Spot1100 was much more stable at speed than my BMW R1100RT. Ducati ST4s is very stable too. Not sure why, but not a function of weight in my limited experience. All sorts of confounding variables could be lurking!
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There are many factors that contribute to stability. Of course!
Perhaps I should have said 'much lighter'. My around town bike is a KTM350 (~250 lbs), which is just frightening above about 65 mph. I guess the knobbies and height don't really contribute to a planted feel at that speed, eh?
The difference I was thinking was between something like my wife's Breva750 and my Eldorado. The Breva is just a lot easier to drive and I prefer it in town. The Breva is really nice on the highway as well but I rather like the heavier Eldo for long distance.
Anyhow, I believe we are in agreement here.
Ah, yeah, I got ya.... I'm probably just being pedantic again! :boozing:
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All interesting discussion. I should point out the range of machines noted as well as the fact that folks here as a rule seem pretty open minded. Asa thought, I test rode a friend's Ducati Multi DS1000. Cornered very easily, but felt too tall, too light, and the dash rattled. I jumped back on my 1200 S right afterwards and the difference was remarkable. The Guzzi certainly felt more composed. I'm sure weight had something to do with it- yet not all. The concept of a light, yet stable bike at speed (as Kev mentioned with the 696) must take some careful engimaneering.
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I'm sure a big part of that composure has to do with the longitudinal crank. I rode the monster 1200S and my very first impression of it was that it was MUCH harder to tip into turns than the guzzi because the gyro effect of the engine resists it so much.
As for options, I think the triumph and the BMW are among the best options out there. I'd personally go with the triumph just for the smoothness of the triple. Not that I could get a foot down easily on either of those bikes in stock form... and the BMW has a rotax engine and no paralever so it might actually be reliable!
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You really should take a Stelvio for a ride.. All day comfort, borders on Sport bike handling, pretty quick, etc etc
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I'm not sure I accept this premise.
I will admit that I think it's EASIER to make a heavier bike feel stable on the highway as it seems to be a factor, just like center of gravity and wheelbase.
But our 696 is extremely stable on the highway and it is a very light, short wheelbase bike without a particularly low center of gravity.
I think therefore that there must be other, more important factors in stability.
I would guess that quality of suspension, along with frame/steering architecture, and possibly even tire size/type/compounds play more important roles.
:1: on the Monster, I have a Monster 796, definitely very stable.
The F800GT is only 460 lbs. and is also very stable.
Also, while the subject of the F800GT, if it wasn't mentioned before, the fuel tank is under the seat, and the air box, above the engine where a fuel tank would normally be. This helps keep the center of gravity low, making the bike feel even lighter when stopped, or pushing it around the garage, lifting it off the side stand, etc.
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There are many factors that contribute to stability. Of course!
Perhaps I should have said 'much lighter'. My around town bike is a KTM350 (~250 lbs), which is just frightening above about 65 mph. I guess the knobbies and height don't really contribute to a planted feel at that speed, eh?
Knobbies at speed on the road can be downright squirrely. I've got a Honda NX250 with Bridgestone Trailwing tires on it, which an 80/20 (80% road) mostly road oriented tire that does well on gravel and easy dirt roads, and Yamaha WR250R with DOT knobbies on it. The Honda is very stable at 70-75 MPH, where the Yamaha is very squirmy at that speed, and has a disconcerting "drop-in" going into turns on asphalt. But, those same knobbies are great in the dirt.
Both bikes weigh about the same, but the Yamaha is about 5 inches taller.
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You know I rode the Triumph 675 STRX today. All it needs to be a sport tourer: add larger tank ring bag and the rear soft bags from SW Mo-Tech. Otherwise it is a beauty: comfortable and smooth. Tends to eat gas on spirited rides, but incredible handling, and light. Not sure if I could pack enough for camping though, but there might be option to add items above the front fender? Pondering that concept. Too damn hot for any longish riding right now in Texas, at least for this fellah.
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You really should take a Stelvio for a ride.. All day comfort, borders on Sport bike handling, pretty quick, etc etc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPw-3e_pzqU
I could have expected as much from you- thanks a lot, Doug!
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Boat comes from Marblehead MA but I don't know if his riding is more city or rural. If city riding is a big part of the day, then performance in stop and go traffic matters. For that, I would ideally want a water cooled bike with a more upright seating position. My RT was great in traffic except when it was hot, and then I needed to pull over and let it cool off. My 97 was air cooled but if you're ok with an inline 4, a Bandit 1250 would make a great platform for a sport tourer that would be good in traffic as well as the open road.
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Funny, I figured a 1200 Sport would be a great sport tourer..
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Funny, I figured a 1200 Sport would be a great sport tourer..
I bet it is. Haven't heard much about Guzzis overheating in traffic.
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Late model Connies are good deals. The CTX 1300 can be had on the affordable side. Some people say the CTX is soul less.
My theory is sometimes after riding soulful bikes. It's ok to transition toward some normalcy. The Connies may have too much horsepower if you been out of the horsepower power games for a while.
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A bike that seems to get overlooked is the relatively new Kawasaki Versys 1000. IThey seem to have been aiming for a cross between and ADV bike and standard. Comes with luggage and priced very reasonably at about $12k. I test rode one recently and although I didn't buy it (got an FJR) it would seem to meet your criteria very well. The most outstanding thing about it was that it had loads of power and torque and felt lighter than a 650. It carries its weight as well as any bike I have ridden making it a great all around be machine. It only narrowly lost out to the FJR, but my criteria are maybe different that yours.
a year ago I bought one of the 1000 Versys after selling the 2010 Stelvio I so loved. at the time I still had (and still do) a 2001 EV. might be my all time favorite ride out of 10 Guzzi's and 30 other bikes. last week I sold the 2012 Gold wing. great bike but not perfect either. But, too heavy! the Versys is as good as they get and is a great deal. I also bought a 2015 V7 this Feb. I have 8000 miles on it and keep it in Az. It's like a trimmed down Ev with more power per pound. I might buy another one for Ga. next spring to keep the Versys company. I did a 10 day 3000 mile New Mexico / Colorado run with it in June and it's great up to 300 miles a day. Versys 400 a day. go ride one. bags are standard and 5.5 gallon tank with 48-555 Mpg.
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Ah, Vagrant ! Was hoping/waiting for you to post on the Kawasaki.
I knew you crunched miles and awaited your input on this subject.
p.s. Lisa STILL gives me grief for letting your old Stelvio go,
the Griso accommodations suck for her. :thewife:
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I'm trying to find a mid sized sport tourer that will be planted on the highway with some windscreen- yet nimble enough around town. It has to be able to mount hard cases. I'm not sold on the gigantic ADV bikes. Seems a bit much to me. I am OK with working on my own bikes- but I really don't want to go through another Guzzi "re engineer 12 things so the bike works the way it should have originally from the factory" experience. I would like to have nice suspension over high horsepower (the suspension is what I miss most about the Griso).
Yes- I know about the Norge - and it's not on the list. I've narrowed things down to the latest version of the Honda VFR 800 and the BMW F800GT. Seems like the BMW ergos may be easier around town. The Aprilia 1200 caponord is much larger- but certainly seems capable.
Anyone have experience with the VFR or F800? Any thoughts on other candidates?
Thanks!
I got a decent ride on a VFR800 last year, to see what all the hype was about, and it really did not impress. Not fast...actually quite boring. The FJ-09 was light years faster and better. Never ridden the Beemer.
I am curious as to why the Norge is not on your list? I just went from a Stelvio to a Norge. The Norge is very light and good handling, eats up the miles, and my girlfriend enjoys riding on the back. After having ridden a lot of other highly rated touring bikes, I find the Norge to be a real sleeper. It is deceptively fast and easy to live with. My other candidate is the FJ-09. It is a whole lot of bike for the money.
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I'm not sure what the availability is like your way but I'd give a big vote for the Triumph Sprint GT. I've owned both the 955ST and 1050ST before this and they were cracking bikes but IMHO the GT is the most complete of the lot. Plenty of power, good luggage and a good fuel range as well as having that lovely triple sound and character. This last point is of course enhanced if you replace the rather-too-large standard silencer too.
Consumption-wise I get 50-55 Mpg (UK gallons to boot) from mine which, given the 20 litre tank will give you a good 200 miles before you're looking to top up.
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Ah, Vagrant ! Was hoping/waiting for you to post on the Kawasaki.
I knew you crunched miles and awaited your input on this subject.
p.s. Lisa STILL gives me grief for letting your old Stelvio go,
the Griso accommodations suck for her. :thewife:
not hard to find a new one.
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You're the second poster to praise the versys 1000 which I wa already taking a serious look at. Are you using the stock seat?