Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Zinfan on July 20, 2016, 11:08:26 PM
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So my first crash while riding my road bike happened today. I was riding through the town of John Day when a lady jaywalked right in front of me from the right. I tried to dive left but I think my hand guard clipped her and we both went down. I was only going 20 mph and wearing all my gear so I was fine, the lady had a bloody nose and went with her husband to the hospital to get checked out.
I was fortunate that a state cop happened by just a minute or so after the crash and while my bike was still on it's side and the lady still on the ground so he could figure out what happened. Plus plenty of witnesses as well. I have no idea what she was thinking, it's not like a fully loaded Stelvio is easily missed and I had cars behind me as well, she just didn't look at all I suppose (she did not have a cell phone). Needed those loud pipes to warn her of impending traffic.
The bike had minor scratches on the plastic hand guard and mirror and my left side driving light is pretty scratched up but I was thinking of replacing that anyways. Police said it wasn't my fault and said I could go but I did wait until he checked on the lady to make sure they weren't going to change their story but that wasn't an issue and after he got back to me I took off. I had actually planned to spend the night in John Day but after this incident I headed south the Burn, Or fully expecting a deer to add to my days excitement but at least they managed to see me coming and stayed away. Oh Vey what a day!
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Glad you're OK. Glad the lady is OK. Glad the Stelvio is OK.
Put a Mistral carbon pipe on it.
Stay safe.
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Dangit !
Dusty
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No, you don't need loud pipes. Fiamms are your best friend. Hitting the button on those things will alert anyone on the street to you being in traffic.
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I'm a loud pipe believer,,, I do like the sound,,, but I also like the commanding presence that they give me on the bike,,, people around me,,, notice me and my bike,,, that is a good thing.
In the last few years,,, I've had many more, close encounters, with mindless pedestrians and cyclists,, than vehicles,,, I can usually watch the cars and predict what they're going to do,,, and respond accordingly,,,, but I find that lots of cyclists and pedestrians,,, just seem to be in their own fog, not paying attention at all
Glad you're ok,,, and it worked out reasonably well,,, could have ended much worse.
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Doesn't hurt to hit the horns to get pedestrians to recognize the danger. This is on an '80 SP1000NT stock exhaust w/Fiamm horns going down the same street in John Day, OR.
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There was no time to use the horn. She stepped out from in front of a large pickup truck that blocked me from being able to see her until the last second. I was riding carefully near the centerline but had no time to react.
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maybe she had a fantasy about running into a biker to sweep her off her feet?
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There was no time to use the horn. She stepped out from in front of a large pickup truck that blocked me from being able to see her until the last second. I was riding carefully near the centerline but had no time to react.
First glad all is well and no person or bike were badly damaged. I do feel sorry for the lady and for you its a helluva shock when that happens. I end up shaking like a leaf and I've been on both sides of that sort of accident.
As I was reading this and before I got to your reply here, I was thinking exactly the same thing.
Horns are fine when you have the time, a lot of the time you don't.
I also believe (just from personal anecdotal experience) if the horns are too loud it can often make people go into "Rabbit in the headlight mode". The horns overload their senses and they freeze.
As far as pipes go, I run both the Ducati and the Guzzi with louder end cans, mainly because I like the sound.
Providing the cans are more towards bass end of the scale, then they don't usually attract the winces that I see when the open pipe brigade pass BUT they are sufficiently loud to make people aware of your presence.
I'll probably get stick for this of course, its just my opinion
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Given what I'm reading, no pipes after the headers, 2 pairs of Fiamm Freeway Busters, and lights and sirens from a firetruck would not have helped here. She was in a trance (not paying attention), she was entering the road from an obstructed view, and the rider just happened to be in her path at the wrong time, hidden from the rider's view. She should be lucky it wasn't a freight truck the clipped her.
No, loud pipes would do nothing here. Except upset the local population as a whole. I wish the motorcycling community could get over this whole fascination with loud exhaust. You may like it. The majority of those around you don't . We do not have the right to run non-EPA mufflers. We do not have the right to impinge upon the peace of others. And you are fooling yourself thinking loud pipes are safety items. If a ped turns their head and sees you coming it's because they were taught how to cross the street at age 5. If they don't, they probably weren't.
And to the rider who said he likes the commanding presence loud pipes give him... it seems to me that notion is ego talking. A commanding presence would assume those around you will obey the noise of your machine. That's a false statement (and a false sense of security), proven daily by emergency responders who can't get walkers or riders or drivers to get out of their way when they are traveling with lights and sirens. Your defensive skills as a properly trained rider are what give you the best chance to survive a ride, not loud exhaust.
Steve.
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A loudspeaker playing "Stars and Stripes Forever" playing all the time...that would get us noticed.
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have room for passenger?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZjb29a1JzY
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"SHEEPLE".
Definition: /She-pull/. 1. By nature, humans that prefer to sleepwalk through life and would rather follow others with their head down than walk tall with situational awareness of their surroundings. 2. The majority of human beings that live life with their head up their ass.
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Thanks for the thoughts guys. To be clear I was trying to lighten my mood by bringing up the loud pipes, I didn't have a decent title for this thread but since I've been on the road for two weeks and have seen (or heard) numerous loud bikes I went with it. I have no plans to make my bike louder.
Old Jock and Steve are right, she had no awareness at the time and I had the bad luck to be there when she stepped out. As I talked to the police i watched others cross the road at that same spot.
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Have you heard from her lawyer yet?
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I was on a modern, uphill freeway entrance ramp this morning driving my 2-ton work vehicle, a lovely late model Ford Crown Victoria PI. Clear weather, moderate traffic. My windows were open, the radio was off, and I was a bit over 50mph getting ready to merge in. My door mirror showed a clear path for me to enter traffic. I turned my head hard left to check my blind spot. Whoa! Pacing my speed in the right traffic lane was a big bagger with a big dude on it. I took my foot off the gas and even waved at him to pull ahead of me. Instead, he guns it and veers left. Only then did I hear the straight pipes as he pulled ahead of and away from me. I never heard those pipes while he was behind me.
I concluded that the guy thinks I saw him from the beginning and that I would be the one to alter my course away from him. First lethal mistake on his part. I follow that with the notion he's thinking I should hear the warning of his pipes. Second lethal mistake on his part. Yep, me hitting him would probably have been my fault, but that wouldn't help him feel any better if my big car would have hip checked his relatively small bike.
Be careful out there.
Steve.
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I was on a modern, uphill freeway entrance ramp this morning driving my 2-ton work vehicle, a lovely late model Ford Crown Victoria PI. Clear weather, moderate traffic. My windows were open, the radio was off, and I was a bit over 50mph getting ready to merge in. My door mirror showed a clear path for me to enter traffic. I turned my head hard left to check my blind spot. Whoa! Pacing my speed in the right traffic lane was a big bagger with a big dude on it. I took my foot off the gas and even waved at him to pull ahead of me. Instead, he guns it and veers left. Only then did I hear the straight pipes as he pulled ahead of and away from me. I never heard those pipes while he was behind me.
I concluded that the guy thinks I saw him from the beginning and that I would be the one to alter my course away from him. First lethal mistake on his part. I follow that with the notion he's thinking I should hear the warning of his pipes. Second lethal mistake on his part. Yep, me hitting him would probably have been my fault, but that wouldn't help him feel any better if my big car would have hip checked his relatively small bike.
Be careful out there.
Steve.
Do you wear your seat belt, do you follow speed limit laws? :evil:
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Pedestrians can be almost squirrel-like in their randomness.
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Steve your story is a lesson for EVERYONE!!! Stay out of the BLIND Spot!! I've had cars and Bikes come up behind me and then pace me to stay on my left or right smack in my blind spot. VERY aggravating!! STAY out out of the Blind spot!!
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IMHO horns are useless except to display anger after the fact , kind of a waste of time and energy . As mentioned before , loud horns usually just confuse the whole situation , if someone has already pulled a bad move , what is honking going to accomplish ? In fact , I have witnessed a driver relentlessly honking at a car in front of them when the driver in front can't move because their path is blocked . One guy did that to me after my old Chevy truck had stalled in an intersection , I got out , walked back to him and politely asked him which side of his face he wanted punched .
Dusty
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sorry for your misfortune
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A music player loudly playing the Mexican version of "Deguello" might help.
It's the music Santa Anna played to the defenders of the Alamo before his big attack.
It is famous as the throat cutter song meaning "No quarter will be given".
Click here to hear Santa Annas' version.
https://www.awesomestories.com/asset/view/Santa-Anna-Orders-No-Quarter-Bugle-Sounds
If my horn button played this, no could ignore me. Although I might get shot by a Texican.
Deguello is to a Texan much like Gary Owen is to a Lakota.
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Have you heard from her lawyer yet?
No but if I'm honest it preys on my mind a bit. Small town local lady (the state policeman knows the family as well) and I'm from California, 850 miles from home so anything can happen I guess. I stayed longer than required to get info from the police and tripled checked that they had no concerns about my riding or culpability in the matter. No report filed but that is due to technical reasons (report needed if $1500 damage done to my bike) and I have the incident number and business card of the trooper who responded to the accident.
I believe the trooper also had a body camera recording the entire time and his patrol car camera would have been able to film the area as well. As stated above she was still on the ground along with my bike, both in the original positions when he showed up so there should be enough evidence to show fault I hope. Mostly I hope she is ok and we all go our separate ways. I don't plan to pass through John Day any time soon that is for sure. I
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I'm a loud pipe believer,,, I do like the sound,,, but I also like the commanding presence that they give me on the bike,,, people around me,,, notice me and my bike,,, that is a good thing.
[snip]
You can make the same maturity statement and get just as much 'commanding presence' without all the noise by wearing your underpants on the outside of your jeans. If you REALLY need to say to the world at large "Look at me -- I'm a biking moron who got off my leash." then yes, you need to do both.
[edited for language - Rk]
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:grin:
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You can make the same maturity statement and get just as much 'commanding presence' without all the noise by wearing your underpants on the outside of your jeans. If you REALLY need to say to the world at large "Look at me -- I'm a f***ing moron who got off my leash." then yes, you need to do both.
But you get noticed and have exactly the same 'commanding presence' AND you emphasize your maturity level without all the noise if you wear your underpants on the outside of your jeans.
Thank You! Saved me a lot of typing.
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Loud pipes for the sake of being loud will put you in the same group as the LOUD PIPE HD riders. :tongue: If tuning your bike with a more open exhaust results in a little louder exhaust because it's less restrictive then that's the end result. Not because you want your bike to be LOUD!!! :grin:
If better horns don't help in an emergency situation then look at your riding style in the same situation that was described. The last part is that sometimes an accident will bite you. :embarrassed:
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I have found that wearing underwear on my head is a very effective method of attracting attention :shocked:
Dusty
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This should help the OP in the same situation if you had loud pipes. Look at page 2. Even though it was the pedestrian's fault. You could have ended up with an equipment violation per Oregon vehicle equipment requirements. From there, I not sure how an interstate ticket would be handled. OR to CA.
http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/TS/docs/VehEq/OregonEquipmentHandoutcolor.pdf
�
Vehicle must be equipped with a muffler
that meets the following noise levels:
�
Motor vehicles: before 1976, 94 dBA
�
Motor vehicles 1976 & after, 91 dBA
�
Motorcycles before 1976, 94 dBA
�
Motorcycles 1976, 91 dBA
�
Motorcycles after 1976, 89 dBA
�
Emission of any loud or unnecessary noise from
a motor vehicle is prohibited.
�
Less restrictive exhaust systems may not meet
exhaust emission standards.
�
Permitted dB levels vary according to vehicle
type and year of manufacture.
�
Removal of catalytic converters is not permitted
by state and federal emission laws.
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I agree that there are degrees of loudness over stock, and that there is a point between stock and no-effing-ends-on the-headers where the extra noise is acceptable. I also agree that there are legitimate reasons for some extra exhaust note. But to be noticed as the motorcycling equivalent of a chrome-codpieced He-Man action figure so's to command attention isn't one of them.
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:1:
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Louder pipes for 40 years. Never had anybody walk into my bike.
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And I've run mostly stock pipes for 55 years with the same result.
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I have had quiet bikes for 50 years and never had anyone walk into them...yet :laugh: Each to their own point of view and mine is that quiet is better, I don't need to command many things, especially a presence (then why am I posting here? whoops!)..OK,..OK a loud presence that is. I don't need a chain on my wallet, a scarf on my head, the urge to wave to every rider that I see, with my hand off the grip ,especially two fingers toward the ground??...have I insulted anyone? I am just giving my view.I don't want to come across arrogant, just saying Loud has purpose in some folks reality, along with the chains vests and other things a "biker" has to display. True, I don't ride much anymore but from the very beginning, 1972,some cliche's never made any sense to me. Loud being one. I must be out of the loop? (pun intended)
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and honestly Zinfan, sorry for your encounter with the unpredictable pedestrian . sometimes, no mater how hard we try to be prepared, be cautious, and alert to our surroundings,something out of our control interjects into our day. hope the next one for you is a welcome interjection.
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I have had quiet bikes for 50 years and never had anyone walk into them...yet :laugh: Each to their own point of view and mine is that quiet is better, I don't need to command many things, especially a presence (then why am I posting here? whoops!)..OK,..OK a loud presence that is. I don't need a chain on my wallet, a scarf on my head, the urge to wave to every rider that I see, with my hand off the grip ,especially two fingers toward the ground??...have I insulted anyone? I am just giving my view.I don't want to come across arrogant, just saying Loud has purpose in some folks reality, along with the chains vests and other things a "biker" has to display. True, I don't ride much anymore but from the very beginning, 1972,some cliche's never made any sense to me. Loud being one. I must be out of the loop? (pun intended)
:1:
Dean
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I hope this didn't happen anywhere near an intersection including a t-intersection?
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Was on the T-3 in Wichita when just starting out from a stoplight when out of my right vision was a quick blur and then a bicycle with a woman down beside me. I stopped, not sure what had just happened as I didn't feel any impact. Police and EMS arrived quickly. Turned out it was a street person that they were very familiar with that had just had a seizure. They said it happened with her on a regular basis but she wouldn't stay off the bike.
GliderJohn
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I hope this didn't happen anywhere near an intersection including a t-intersection?
Nope, middle of the block
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I have had quiet bikes for 50 years and never had anyone walk into them...yet :laugh: Each to their own point of view and mine is that quiet is better, I don't need to command many things, especially a presence (then why am I posting here? whoops!)..OK,..OK a loud presence that is. I don't need a chain on my wallet, a scarf on my head, the urge to wave to every rider that I see, with my hand off the grip ,especially two fingers toward the ground??...have I insulted anyone? I am just giving my view.I don't want to come across arrogant, just saying Loud has purpose in some folks reality, along with the chains vests and other things a "biker" has to display. True, I don't ride much anymore but from the very beginning, 1972,some cliche's never made any sense to me. Loud being one. I must be out of the loop? (pun intended)
NOTE: All the sport bikes running open cans. :boozing:
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https://goo.gl/photos/51Ji2PhWyJmWKDfy8
Hope the link to google photos works, if not I'll upload elsewhere and link in. This pic shows the damaged driving light but check out the background... see the RadioShack store front? Now an overhead pic showing where the RadioShack is in John Day, this is within a couple of feet of where the accident took place so you can see it was clearly in the middle of the block. I wish I had a pic of the truck parked on the side of the street blocking my view of the lady stepping out.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/RickFi/johnday_zpsae3ixj1r.png) (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/RickFi/media/johnday_zpsae3ixj1r.png.html)
The blue circle is where the accident occured.
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You can make the same maturity statement and get just as much 'commanding presence' without all the noise by wearing your underpants on the outside of your jeans. If you REALLY need to say to the world at large "Look at me -- I'm a biking moron who got off my leash." then yes, you need to do both.
[edited for language - Rk]
RK you're killing me,,, it's got nothing to with maturity or being moronic.
I don't like loud obnoxious open pipes, or the riders that like to wind them up going through crowded areas,,, any more than most.
I'm reasonably sensitive to those around me,,, keep my revs and noise level down so not to offend neighbors passers by, short shift, etc, but I do like the sound of a healthy set of pipes. Go ahead,,, shoot me now,,,lol.
Our joys in life that we've grown up with involve many of our senses,,, riding a motorcycle and the pleasurable sensations if provides,,,, are not just a simple straight forward energetic movement,,, there are a whole lot of things going on,,,.
When I ride a motorcycle or appreciate one going by,,,, something that sounds like a sewing machine, turbine, or electric motor doesn't cut it for me,,,, I'm not alone,,, the electric car designers realize this as well,, and the lack of positive auditory confirmation of a combustion fired engine is a disappointment often heard voiced by people driving electric cars.
I grew up loving the sound,,,, "brappp brappp brappp",,,, yup that's a motorcycle,,, I can feel the butterflies in my stomache
"hmmmmmmm hmmmmmm",,,, no that doesn't cut it,,, was that a mosquito or someone working on a Singer nearby.lol
When I pull up to an intersection,,, depending on the size and the traffic level,,,, there are potentially 100 people there with me, any one of whom could potentially end my life,,, odds are at least one daydreaming preoccupied idiot among them,,, I want each one of them,,, to know that I'm there,,,, that's got nothing to do with self centered moronic immaturity,,,, simply trying to stay alive.
The op describes his accident as being caused by a lady hidden from view obstructed by a parked truck, walking out directly in front of him,,, no time for evasive action,, no time to sound a horn or alarm,,, the only thing that would have prevented the accident,,,, was for her to be aware of his approach out of sight,,, for her to somehow be aware of the op's presence,,, hidden from view behind the truck,,, the sound of his bike was the only clue she was going to get that he was coming up the street,,, classic loud pipes saves lives scenario.
fwiw ymmv
ride safe,,,,, brapppp brappp brappp,,lol
take care
Kelly
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Given what I'm reading, no pipes after the headers, 2 pairs of Fiamm Freeway Busters, and lights and sirens from a firetruck would not have helped here. She was in a trance (not paying attention), she was entering the road from an obstructed view, and the rider just happened to be in her path at the wrong time, hidden from the rider's view. She should be lucky it wasn't a freight truck the clipped her.
No, loud pipes would do nothing here. Except upset the local population as a whole. I wish the motorcycling community could get over this whole fascination with loud exhaust. You may like it. The majority of those around you don't . We do not have the right to run non-EPA mufflers. We do not have the right to impinge upon the peace of others. And you are fooling yourself thinking loud pipes are safety items. If a ped turns their head and sees you coming it's because they were taught how to cross the street at age 5. If they don't, they probably weren't.
And to the rider who said he likes the commanding presence loud pipes give him... it seems to me that notion is ego talking. A commanding presence would assume those around you will obey the noise of your machine. That's a false statement (and a false sense of security), proven daily by emergency responders who can't get walkers or riders or drivers to get out of their way when they are traveling with lights and sirens. Your defensive skills as a properly trained rider are what give you the best chance to survive a ride, not loud exhaust.
Steve.
:1: :thumb: :bow:
Great piece.
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:1: :thumb: :bow:
Great piece.
I agree,,, it's a great piece of writing,,, an opinion voiced from someone who wasn't there,,,
The op was,,, how did he title his original post,,,? "Maybe I needed loud pipes!"
I would counter that in a court of logic,,, the greatest piece of writing, bearing the most weight on the the op's accident, would be his. He was there, he saw how it unfolded, and logically he came to a conclusion of how it could have been prevented, and posted it here. js
Continue with the piling on,,, let the merriment continue,,lol
ride safe, take care
Kelly
ps brappp brappp
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I agree,,, it's a great piece of writing,,, an opinion voiced from someone who wasn't there,,,
The op was,,, how did he title his original post,,,? "Maybe I needed loud pipes!"
I would counter that in a court of logic,,, the greatest piece of writing, bearing the most weight on the the op's accident, would be his. He was there, he saw how it unfolded, and logically he came to a conclusion of how it could have been prevented, and posted it here. js
Continue with the piling on,,, let the merriment continue,,lol
ride safe, take care
Kelly
ps brappp brappp
As the OP I might point out that in another post I commented that I was just looking for a "catchy" title for the thread and didn't think the loud pipes would have helped. I apologize to all for misleading the readers as to what may or may not have helped (IMO nothing would have helped, she wasn't thinking or looking or listening before she stepped out in front of me). Everyone has their opinion and I can respect that.
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As the OP I might point out that in another post I commented that I was just looking for a "catchy" title for the thread and didn't think the loud pipes would have helped. I apologize to all for misleading the readers as to what may or may not have helped (IMO nothing would have helped, she wasn't thinking or looking or listening before she stepped out in front of me). Everyone has their opinion and I can respect that.
I'm just glad you weren't seriously hurt,,, I had my run in with a day dreaming old lady almost 40 yrs ago in a parking lot,,, my right ankle through the side engine case of my KZ400,,, 3 pins and a little bit of arthritis I got off easy,,, I drive and ride very defensively now,,, as I'm sure you do too.
ride safe take care
Kelly
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I'm just glad you weren't seriously hurt,,, I had my run in with a day dreaming old lady almost 40 yrs ago in a parking lot,,, my right ankle through the side engine case of my KZ400,,, 3 pins and a little bit of arthritis I got off easy,,, I drive and ride very defensively now,,, as I'm sure you do too.
ride safe take care
Kelly
She and I were both lucky, I had a sore wrist for a day but that was the extent of it. I also ride and drive defensively. Take care as well.
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RK you're killing me,,, it's got nothing to with maturity or being moronic.
I don't like loud obnoxious open pipes, or the riders that like to wind them up going through crowded areas,,, any more than most.
I'm reasonably sensitive to those around me,,, keep my revs and noise level down so not to offend neighbors passers by, short shift, etc, but I do like the sound of a healthy set of pipes. Go ahead,,, shoot me now,,,lol.
Our joys in life that we've grown up with involve many of our senses,,, riding a motorcycle and the pleasurable sensations if provides,,,, are not just a simple straight forward energetic movement,,, there are a whole lot of things going on,,,.
When I ride a motorcycle or appreciate one going by,,,, something that sounds like a sewing machine, turbine, or electric motor doesn't cut it for me,,,, I'm not alone,,, the electric car designers realize this as well,, and the lack of positive auditory confirmation of a combustion fired engine is a disappointment often heard voiced by people driving electric cars.
I grew up loving the sound,,,, "brappp brappp brappp",,,, yup that's a motorcycle,,, I can feel the butterflies in my stomache
"hmmmmmmm hmmmmmm",,,, no that doesn't cut it,,, was that a mosquito or someone working on a Singer nearby.lol
When I pull up to an intersection,,, depending on the size and the traffic level,,,, there are potentially 100 people there with me, any one of whom could potentially end my life,,, odds are at least one daydreaming preoccupied idiot among them,,, I want each one of them,,, to know that I'm there,,,, that's got nothing to do with self centered moronic immaturity,,,, simply trying to stay alive.
The op describes his accident as being caused by a lady hidden from view obstructed by a parked truck, walking out directly in front of him,,, no time for evasive action,, no time to sound a horn or alarm,,, the only thing that would have prevented the accident,,,, was for her to be aware of his approach out of sight,,, for her to somehow be aware of the op's presence,,, hidden from view behind the truck,,, the sound of his bike was the only clue she was going to get that he was coming up the street,,, classic loud pipes saves lives scenario.
fwiw ymmv
ride safe,,,,, brapppp brappp brappp,,lol
take care
Kelly
You're not discussing anymore, you're trolling.
Ride safe.
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I was reviewing my sat tracker and saw this;
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a189/RickFi/sattrack_zpscdbthsmy.png) (http://s11.photobucket.com/user/RickFi/media/sattrack_zpscdbthsmy.png.html)
Just a few seconds before the impact my InReach sent a tracking data point showing me traveling at 22.5 mph (speed limit 25 mph) and you can see where the crash zone was as I was still for quite some time afterwards.
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Congrats on surviving and not getting a citation. :thumb: