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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: KraZ440 on July 26, 2016, 01:13:38 PM
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Hi all.
I'm working hard to get used to my new Stelvio, but she is still a big girl for me. Also, the clutch and throttle are a lot more sensitive than I'm used to (and I tend to have the finesse of a rampaging elephant).
I'm trying to improve my low speed technique, but I'm getting some confusing information. Many people talk about slipping the clutch during low speed maneuvers, but I've also seen many people talk about the dangers of slipping a dry clutch, like my Stelvio. I've also people talk about how much the Stelvio pulls at low RPMs, so slipping is not as necessary.
What technique works well for riding the Stelvio slowly?
Thanks.
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My humble recommendation is to use the clutch as it is intended -- yes, slip it for low-speed maneuvers. Does a dry clutch wear faster than a wet clutch, all other things being equal? Sure. But it might be the difference between a clutch change at 78k miles instead of 79k miles.
Also, lightly dragging the rear brake will help smooth things out at low speeds.
Overall, the low-speed stuff is a very small % of overall mileage, unless you are a motor cop, in the precision drill team or gymkhana competitor, so don't sweat a little clutch wear.
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For really slow, like below idling speed, you must bring the RPM up and slip the clutch while gently riding the brake. It's how to win the slow race at gatherings.
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My Stelvio will pull itself along at just over idle, but that is about 11 mph (maybe a tad less). If you need to go really slow you will need to slip the clutch. More important than the clutch/engine work you need to put time into slow speed balance. It is much easier to balance the machine if you are standing on the pegs because you can then weight the outside peg while you hang your ass to the outside, all the while turning the bike incredibly sharply. This is a skill that is worth practice, you will need it some day when you need try to maneuver through a parking lot or campground.
Peter Y.
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Get yourself a trials bike. You'll get REALLY good at going slow.
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Is slipping the clutch good for the bike? Not really. But, if you don't do it very often it won't hurt anything either.
Reminds me of a police riding instruction course. They said to expect to drop your bike 10 or 20 times and to burn out at least one clutch in a one week course.
So, practice a little every now and then, letting the clutch cool between attempts until you get the hang of it. After that you wont use the skill that much...at least I haven't.
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Yep. At idle speeds, you'll have to add some throttle and slip the clutch. Don't turn it up to four grand on the tach. Just add a few hundred RPM.
It's a basic technique that everyone should know how to use. How else are you able to do full-lock U-turns and other tight maneuvers?
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All good advice. If you're trying to ride like the PD guys. Don't. They don't own the bikes they ride unless you want to do a clutch job and pay for it. Easy for PD guys to thrash a bike when they aren't footing the bill. As for low speed riding. Pick a parking lot that's empty on a weekend. Do figure 8's and use the curb stones for obstacles. Practice. A major portion of this is ride, ride, ride. Get out of your comfort zone and ride in rush hour traffic for slow speed with both feet on the pegs. You'll get a feel of the torque of the engine and a feel for the driveline with feathering the clutch.
Before every Ironman Championship in Kona. The CHP and Denver PD guys run a workshop/rider course for the Moto Journalist bikes. Kind of unrealistic as you're not going that slow with a photog on board. Very similar to the PD courses that they use for training. Going slow with a passenger on board while they're leaning out with a camera/vid cam can make for some interesting riding. :shocked:
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One more tip: When pulling a tight u-turn, be sure you are looking far in the direction you want to go.
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Fixate at the ground and that's where you're headed. :tongue:
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To quote Charlie B
Reminds me of a police riding instruction course. They said to expect to drop your bike 10 or 20 times and to burn out at least one clutch in a one week course.
That sounds as if the Police expect all new riders to be as inept as they were.
Fortunately most of them learned well.
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One more tip: When pulling a tight u-turn, be sure you are looking far in the direction you want to go.
So that you can see the guy that is tailgating you.
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When you hit full lock while moving put your foot down. You have very little control when you can't move the bars.
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I have a Norge, and I have to ride very slowly every weekday in traffic. I believe the Norge and Stelvio have very similar if not identical clutches and drive trains.
For me, the trick to crawling at below first gear is indeed to slip the clutch. However, the motor has such great "flywheel" effect that I rarely need to give it any throttle, even going up a slight incline.
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When you hit full lock while moving put your foot down. You have very little control when you can't move the bars.
What? :shocked:
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What? :shocked:
Try it. Go slow, go to full lock and see what happens.
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It takes practice but it is possible to do full lock turns and keep your feet on the pegs, I do it often, but it's something I work at. You do have to throttle up a little, slip the clutch and cover the rear brake. Did it in every trials section I've ever ridden. (Or didn't take a 5 on)
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It takes practice but it is possible to do full lock turns and keep your feet on the pegs, I do it often, but it's something I work at. You do have to throttle up a little, slip the clutch and cover the rear brake. Did it in every trials section I've ever ridden. (Or didn't take a 5 on)
I can do it on a trials bike all the time too. 500lb street bike? Be careful. Since this thread was started by someone who seemed apprehensive my advice stands.
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KraZ,
All good advice above, and I do not claim to be an expert. Given that, when I rented the Suzuki V-Strom: much heavier and higher than my V7R, I had to make several very tight turns. The very high center of gravity was an issue. Best advice: really FULLY turn your head sharp, feather clutch, pay attention to RPMs and you can do it. Don't touch the brake especially if at full lock. Smooth. If you have a snatchy engine or clutch it is much more difficult.
Be careful where you do it if there is traffic. In my opinion, in many circumstances it is better to stop, put feet down, do a careful walking turn as to avoid possible traffic. Learned that in various gasoline stations over the years as people zip in and out in cages and do not expect a motorcycle turning a U. Your vision is pretty limited while doing the U.
Good luck, ride safe!
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Try it. Go slow, go to full lock and see what happens.
I do. Regularly. I've yet to fall over.
It's all about balance and the friction zone.
:bike-037:
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KraZ,
Maybe this video will help?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujfK6LAou8A
:evil:
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I can do it on a trials bike all the time too. 500lb street bike? Be careful. Since this thread was started by someone who seemed apprehensive my advice stands.
I wouldn't recommend starting out doing lock turns but it's something to work up to. Start out doing circles feet up then figure 8's. Work on balance and using your controls. It'll make you a better rider. And maybe you won't drag your feet like the ape hanger crowd.
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https://youtu.be/HV2dIK191SM.
Here's a good low speed Guzzi video.
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The rodeo guys have no problem dropping their $20K bikes because they didn't pay a dime for them. That's my taxpayer money they're using!
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Training wheels for everyone !!!
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Thanks for all the good advice. I've been refreshing myself on "proper" technique, since I was able to get away with sloppy technique on my old KZ (plus, that sloppy technique has atrophied over the years due to lack of use).
I've been trying to ride frequently, but most of the time I've had available has been commuting and rush-hour traffic in Seattle is not the best place to practice these types of things. I'm working on making time to just practice and I'm trying to find a big empty parking lot. In the mean time, I try to pick one thing to focus on improving while I ride.
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Not so much a problem with full lock, as when full lock happens before you expect!
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MSF coach here. Good advice on looking where you want to be. Lean the bike into the turn and counterweight with your body-lean away from the bike and put some weight on the outside foot rest. You can drag the rear brake as well to control speed and on my V11, I demo the exercise for the class will the clutch fully engaged. You should be able to do the same. Get comfy with the speed. Imagine being the sidecar monkey. Look at the ground and that is where you go.
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MSF coach here. Good advice on looking where you want to be. Lean the bike into the turn and counterweight with your body-lean away from the bike and put some weight on the outside foot rest. You can drag the rear brake as well to control speed and on my V11, I demo the exercise for the class will the clutch fully engaged. You should be able to do the same. Get comfy with the speed. Imagine being the sidecar monkey. Look at the ground and that is where you go.
:thumb:
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I can "throw" my SWB Convert from lock to lock at parade speeds like it was double-jointed -- peg the bars this way, and whip them hard over that way -- all afternoon. Figure8-s in the space of two tandem and two adjacent (a square of four) parking slots are just a warm-up for tight maneuvers :coffee:. My LWB 'vert needs another inch for the figure 8's, but it will do circles around a manhole cover very precisely. I have absolutely no issues with steering control at the locks. Oh -- I run 100 and 110 tires, and I practice a lot*.
Maybe the difference is the clearly superior MIGHTY 'VERT v the humble and obsolete dry clutches that you poor slobs are stuck with. :evil: :evil: :evil: :thumb:
*Yeah, it's all brag, but it's also all fact.
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Some bikes are difficult to ride at low speeds. Old British bikes are very easy to ride slow. What Rocker says works for some.. I ride slow by slipping the clutch slightly for a few seconds then pull in the clutch and coast a bit, then repeat....I always have my feet on the pegs unless I'm actually stopped...I see riders in traffic with their feet dangling down all the time when going 5 mph...it's a recipe for a fall over in my opinion...
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KraZ. This Vid may help. Watch the rider's hands on the bars and placement of feet when coming to a stop. Full size Guzzi. :grin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jAb0kWJHxY
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KraZ. This Vid may help. Watch the rider's hands on the bars and placement of feet when coming to a stop. Full size Guzzi. :grin:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jAb0kWJHxY
She never dabs one time! Some great riding skills! Js
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Exactly, and it's a heavy bike with reverse gear shift pattern!
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Exactly, and it's a heavy bike with reverse gear shift pattern!
Not reverse, the correct pattern :grin: When she is on the bike alongside the robed man at a slow walking speed...Is she actually riding the bike...or is the bike on a low platform being pulled?
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With her riding skills, my guess would be that she's riding it. She has the clutch pulled in a little and she's using the throttle but it's "Hollywood" and anything is possible. :wink: