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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ScepticalScotty on July 27, 2016, 05:04:27 PM
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Well, we have been restructured and they certainly had thier sights on well paid specialists* like EHOs, so 4 of us will now have to compete for 2 jobs - and even if you are lucky to get one of the two jobs, the job spec has been written by someone who does not have a clue. :angry: If we dont get that we will be "expected" to apply for 2 lower level jobs at a mere £7500 pay cut. Or be made redundant.
Great fun eh???
*Talking to a few freinds current management practice really hates people who don't manage anyone, but really know what they are talking about and are experienced and highly qualified.
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Almost as much as being told to go to half time, or being fired (PC term is laid off). BTDT too.
The joys of being in a company or in government. It seems the folks on top have no clue what is going on, even if they worked their way up from the trenches.
Glad I retired.
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Sorry to hear this news, and I feel your pain.
Having been "downsized" several times myself in my 40+ year career, in the soul-draining semiconductor industry, my only advice is put your best foot forward for those two jobs slots, and also have a "Plan B."
Also, use your NETWORK to land your next gig. It gets much tougher after age 50, believe me....
"Adapt-Improvise-Overcome" as they say in the US Marines, and good luck! :thumb: :cool:
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Been there, as have most of us in the wonderful world of Capitalism. The more you cost your company, the brighter the target on your shirt. Best of luck, perhaps you'll be the kept 50%. As many suggested to me at the time, warm up your telephone list and reach out ....someone might need you making for a smoother transition. Perhaps the management saw too many pictures of the lone piper. :laugh:
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Good luck Scotty .
Dusty
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That is tough to deal with, I understand. If you are a survivor you get to do the departed guys work as well as your old job. Sometimes getting laid off can be a blessing in disguise. I hope it works out to your advantage.
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Well, we have been restructured and they certainly had thier sights on well paid specialists* like EHOs, so 4 of us will now have to compete for 2 jobs - and even if you are lucky to get one of the two jobs, the job spec has been written by someone who does not have a clue. :angry: If we dont get that we will be "expected" to apply for 2 lower level jobs at a mere �7500 pay cut. Or be made redundant.
Great fun eh???
*Talking to a few freinds current management practice really hates people who don't manage anyone, but really know what they are talking about and are experienced and highly qualified.
Most of us have been through it ... just like you have the freedom to move around and take a better job if one comes up, the company has the freedom to eliminate your job if they restructure or merge.
It often can be a blessing in disguise ... you might realize that you were just marking time, or getting stale, and a forced move can be the thing that makes you refocus and refigure what it is you really want to do.
The one thing I can tell you IF you are "out" and looking for a job is that the new job will most likely come from a network of people you know; a Friend of a Friend, maybe. Looking for a job is itself a full-time job - you'll be spending your days making phone calls, meeting people you know, having lunch with someone who knows someone that you know. Gotta keep after it and not give up.
Hope whatever the outcome is, it's the best one for you!
Lannis
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What Lannis said. Doors close and a window will open.
I had four major relocations and job changes in my working life.
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Best of luck.
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Retired @ age 50 (how did I do it, my lips are sealed), enjoy...
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I got $*!+canned from a 14 yr job just about a year ago. I'm thankful for the door that opened, much happier now.
Good luck!
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Lannis speaks truth.
Many times in my 40 year oil industry career: same situation. Be flexible. Be the willow in the wind.
Cast your nets. Keep your self confidence.
"Non illigetimus carborundum"
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Retired @ age 50 (how did I do it, my lips are sealed), enjoy...
That's OK; I got MY retirement advice from a famous retired-at-age-50 guy on this very list, our own Texas Turnip, probably 15 years ago. I've never forgotten it. He approaches life like he approaches a long motorcycle ride ...
It takes realism, the right attitude, the right work ethic, lots of flexibility. I quit at 52 and took a year off (how often do you get a year's vacation at that age?), and then went back to work and retired for good at age 60.
Do it if you can! If not, keep on finding work, it might not be what you thought it would be, but it's out there.
Lannis
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I hope you find what you want! :thumb:
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Sometimes getting laid off can be a blessing in disguise. I hope it works out to your advantage.
:1:
I worked for the same company 15.5 years. Getting kicked got me to Germany!
Had I not , I'd still be fat, single and sitting in the same desk. :grin: :grin: :grin:
Tom
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It's called the "Global Economy". Jobs go overseas unless it can be done for competitive prices here. Notice all the fast food chains installing kiosks. They cannot afford to pay the new $15 minimum wages. They have 20 $10.00 an hour jobs or 13 $15.00 an hour jobs. 7 people less needed.
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Yes actually, capitalism is great.
It is if you're willing and able to make your own way in the world, to take the initiative, to find something you're good at and do it, and to accept that nothing is guaranteed.
If you just want any sort of job "guaranteed" to you so you never have to "worry" and don't have to compete, well, history shows us the alternatives. All on the ash heap now, though.
Lannis
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:1:
I worked for the same company 15.5 years. Getting kicked got me to Germany!
Had I not , I'd still be fat, single and sitting in the same desk. :grin: :grin: :grin:
Tom
Tom - Consider yourself "blessed and fortunate!" :thumb: :cool:
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Part of the reason we stayed near Houston was the possibility of consulting in an oil gig. Oil prices and the crash, have so far, prevented that.
Frankly I prefer to let those who need a job to have the few available ones.
Did get approached to move and live and work in Cairo by former employer. Decided the new Pharaoh is not much to my liking. Had my fill of North Africa living. Crummy beer there anyway, and the riding is pretty insane in the city. View of pyramids is supreme though.
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It's called the "Global Economy". Jobs go overseas unless it can be done for competitive prices here. Notice all the fast food chains installing kiosks. They cannot afford to pay the new $15 minimum wages. They have 20 $10.00 an hour jobs or 13 $15.00 an hour jobs. 7 people less needed.u
The Global economy changed everything, especially in my old industry, (semiconductors).
"Adaptability is the key to survival..." True in nature...and absolutely true in the business world.
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It is if you're willing and able to make your own way in the world, to take the initiative, to find something you're good at and do it, and to accept that nothing is guaranteed.
If you just want any sort of job "guaranteed" to you so you never have to "worry" and don't have to compete, well, history shows us the alternatives. All on the ash heap now, though.
Lannis
Well Spoken!!
I have never been un-employed except when I wanted to be.
Now for the rest of the story:
That means that I have dug ditches for laying sewer lines, stood in sh8t up to my knees when some joker (my Dad LOL) opened the wrong valve, changed clutches while snow & ice ran down my shirt, worked 60hrs a week in a gas station for $125.00 @ week, opened my own shop, spent a lot of money on cars & bikes, closed shop due to finances, worked, saved, opened another business, succeded/failed, get the picture???
Yeah capitalism has got my vote. I'm 64, semi retired, have 4 bikes, and everything I have is paid for including the business & inventory. Oh, I have never taken a dime from the government.
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Part of the reason we stayed near Houston was the possibility of consulting in an oil gig. Oil prices and the crash, have so far, prevented that.
Frankly I prefer to let those who need a job to have the few available ones.
Did get approached to move and live and work in Cairo by former employer. Decided the new Pharaoh is not much to my liking. Had my fill of North Africa living. Crummy beer there anyway, and the riding is pretty insane in the city. View of pyramids is supreme though.
Back when I was working on an advanced physics degree at Georgia Tech, our department director introduced us to a Libyan official who wanted to speak to us.
At the time, Libya was flush with oil money, and had the intention of creating a world-class, cost is no object university that would be the pride of the Near East. The man speaking to us was the head recruiter, and they wanted a mix of experienced professors and new PhDs to staff their new school, and Georgia Tech had one of the top nuclear physics programs (we even had our own on-site reactor) in the USA.
The terms were unbelievably liberal, but vouched for by our department. Eight months on site in Libya each year, four months at home. Salary was $80,000 a year (this at a time when a Georgia Tech assistant professor starting salary was $13,000 a year), paid in GBP to the Swiss bank of your choice. Housing already paid for.
We were all abuzz, with many of the more adventurous ready to pull the trigger and go. And then, two weeks later, Gaddafi took over and the whole country went to shyte. I'm not even sure we'd have had time to get out of the country .... ! So my ambition and initiative thereafter was focused on the good ol' US of A ....
Lannis
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I worked as a construction electrician...Was union so we worked from a hiring hall and were on the job for one minute or until it was done. There were no guaratees of work or senority...If the contractor had more work I might be sent to another job or sent back to the hall....Some years work was slow, some years were great. I was often a foreman but after a year or two with the same contractor I was ready to move on......Many people can't deal with this and it does require careful spending and thinking ahead...I loved being a hired gun and not going to the same place for years on end...At 56 I retired and started my own small electric contraction business..Retired again a few years ago at 65....
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Beer, Bread and salt. :boozing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_HrYdMlppE
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Yeah, I was hired 4+ years ago, didn't get a raise the first year, as "yearly pay increases" came only a couple of months after I was brought on.
Wage freeze the next year.
Promoted the next year, came with a small raise.
Wage freeze the following year.
This year, a 10% salary cut.
I now make less than I did before I was hired.
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Yeah, I was hired 4+ years ago, didn't get a raise the first year, as "yearly pay increases" came only a couple of months after I was brought on.
Wage freeze the next year.
Promoted the next year, came with a small raise.
Wage freeze the following year.
This year, a 10% salary cut.
I now make less than I did before I was hired.
Your namesake wouldn't have stood still for that! Get on the bike and get to another town where the pickings are better .....
Lannis
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It's been more than 20 years since a company came across with the money they offered me to sign on with them. Revenue sharing always seems to evaporate or be halted as soon as I'm eligible.
I'm beginning to think those sports stars with their insistence on a signing bonus are on to something.
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Did get approached to move and live and work in Cairo by former employer. Decided the new Pharaoh is not much to my liking. Had my fill of North Africa living. Crummy beer there anyway, and the riding is pretty insane in the city. View of pyramids is supreme though.
Ah perspective...sort of makes Houston traffic look like a day at Disneyland by comparison, doesn't it?!! Cooler too!!
It's always relative...some countries have figured out the proper balance between providing a safety net at a reasonable cost on some items, others don't. The U.S. model is most definitely sink or swim and you had better be swimming all the time, there's plenty of stability and upside for those who have the education/skills/guts/willingness/flexibility and are able to jump or relocate when their job gets shifted elsewhere, but lots of downside if you're not and your skill set isn't needed any longer. It's a country of extreme contrasts, but luckily with a massive middle class, and yet still quite a large number of people in poverty, but the country doesn't lack in resources, just isn't aligned always on where to spend them. Not so bad as many 3rd world countries which typically have a very small upper class, a very modest sized middle class and a massive lower class with no safety net either and not as much access to resources - natural, physical or financial.
Wish you the best on finding something new that you enjoy and keeps the lights on and the Guzzi's fully tanked up!
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*Talking to a few freinds current management practice really hates people who don't manage anyone, but really know what they are talking about and are experienced and highly qualified.
Most senior level managers these days came out of business school and not up through the ranks like in the old days. Therefore they know nothing of the product or industry and don't see that knowledge as having any value. All they see is how this or that effects the bottom line and that is why they make so many stupid decisions. The fallout can't be seen on a spreadsheet so people with knowledge who can explain why a certain decision was dumb are seen as a threat.
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We did have an engineer who came up through the ranks as a CEO. He became just like the rest. Cut about 1/3 of the workforce and got the company into the 'modern' technologies years after the competition.
OTOH, in a previous life had a company CEO who also came up from operating a machine in a factory. Worked up to the top and made the company a lot of money. Financial investment company bought us. Within a year our 30% return on investment was down to 10% and they started selling off factories to make money. They went from a 70% of market share in that sector to less than 10%.
These days it takes a good CEO to make a company run well. Forward thinking and outguessing the competition. When the companies get really big, that's hard to do without taking a lot of risk, something boards of directors and stockholders don't like.
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Last I heard, on average a working adult in the U.S. will work for 12-15 employers in their life time. FED DOL. Don't know if that's true but you will be working for more than a couple. Good luck with fighting for that position. Consider other opportunities that come your way.
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Hang in there Scotty
I ducked the axe back in January when the MD made 50% of us redundant. But being in the oil and gas business I'm not overly optimistic about the future
Then out of the blue an old boss called me yesterday with a job opportunity
So as others have said don't despair and ring all your contacts ....... unless you fancy a break that is :thumb:
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Thanks for all the comments guys, and yes we are fighting hard. The "team" approach that I have worked in is a proven approach in my sort of job (enforcing the law - air/noise/water pollution, housing law, etc) and the idea that its best to cut us in half and scatter that knowledge to the four winds seems a bit mad to me.
I am open to new opportunities for sure, and am looking into all of the stuff right now!
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Time to freshen up your resume. Just in case. Make one with all your chronological employment history. Use that as your base to make other ones per employer. Cover letters would be the same. What state are you in? There might be some state resources that are available at no cost. Guzzi content. :evil:
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In the United Kingdom Tom, but originally from the state of New South Wales. :grin: Yes I'll be going through the resume, have already contacted other members of my profession about opportunities, and also tentatively investigating working for myself one day. One good thing is that due to my pay grade, they have to give me 3 months notice. So looking at the timelines for the restructure, applying for the job I am ring-fenced to, and then if I dont get that..applying for the "lesser" job...it would be January/Feb before I would be out of a job if the worst comes to the worst.
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Good luck. A lot of resources out there. :thumb:
some general stuff.
https://www.gov.uk/browse/working/finding-job
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In the United Kingdom Tom, but originally from the state of New South Wales. :grin: Yes I'll be going through the resume, have already contacted other members of my profession about opportunities, and also tentatively investigating working for myself one day. One good thing is that due to my pay grade, they have to give me 3 months notice. So looking at the timelines for the restructure, applying for the job I am ring-fenced to, and then if I dont get that..applying for the "lesser" job...it would be January/Feb before I would be out of a job if the worst comes to the worst.
One thing you need to be careful about ... there's a human factor that is easy to legislate against but HARD to enforce and that's "Age Discrimination". I don't know how old you are (and don't need to) but on a modern resume, I would not date my college degree or apprenticeship and earliest experience, which is usually not directly relevant anyway. If the prospective employer sees a B.A. degree earned in 1978, they can do the math pretty quick and gently set it aside, and they will.
Same for a picture. Don't include one .. unless you want to put your high-school yearbook picture in like Dear Abby used to do ... !
Lannis
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Sage advice. The actual resume you want to send out sans any dates would be more of an experience one vs. a chronological one. The age factor is a subtle discrimination that if the employer is smart. They don't say anything related to that.
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Sage advice. The actual resume you want to send out sans any dates would be more of an experience one vs. a chronological one. The age factor is a subtle discrimination that if the employer is smart. They don't say anything related to that.
It's sage because it's hard-won, based on personal experience ... both from inside and out ....
Lannis
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It's sage because it's hard-won, based on personal experience ... both from inside and out ....
Lannis
Agree 100% - - and most companies with "online job applications" now have software embedded that will automatically ELIMINATE applications with certain dates...another subtle age discrimination tactic, which is rampant out there!
So again, (IMHO), your NETWORK is one of your most valuable assets!
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Most jobs are found thru personal contacts with friends or acquaintances.
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:1: That's what I tell everyone that I work with. In getting re-employed be selfish. Use your contacts, friends and family members. There are no friends when looking for employment. Your competition is everyone till you get your next position.
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The State used to put number of issues on the Boiler Operating Engineers License. They quit doing that about 10 years ago. If they used the old system now, my Chief License would have #38 on it. Still keep renewing just in case. :whip2:
There was a time when experience carried weight, now companies seem to want that young person with a 4 year + Degree. No practical experience required.
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Somehow, Space Cowboys come to mind. :grin:
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The situation sort of brings to mind the question ... Are companies who reorganize, downsize, etc and as a result, lay people off ALWAYS just heartless bastards?
I mean, do we always expect employment forever from any company we join, regardless of anything else?
Suppose that:
1) Technology changes, and people no longer need buggy whips? Do you expect the buggy whip manufacturer to re-tool from plaiting leather and hemp fibers to casting water-pump bodies?
2) Suppose they discover fracking for cheap natural gas, and, as a result, the return on investment for building and maintaining nuclear plants drops. Does the nuclear services company just pay everyone even though though there's no business in repairing and installing new plants?
3) Suppose someone invents a machine that can wind thread onto bobbins 100 times faster than a person can do it? Do you just keep paying that thread-winding person anyhow even though there's no more need for the job? Or should that person head off to the company that makes the winding machine and look for a job there, making winding machines?
Just seems like it's something that everyone should expect and be ready for, not something where we just cuss the "bosses" for throwing us out in the cold. Very often, they didn't invent the "cold" ...
Lannis
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Seems that one should on their own become a multi-tasker. Too often I'm seeing single career goal people coming in looking for employment. Hard to tell them that age discrimination is kicking in when they want to return to a building trade but their legs or back cannot handle to work requirements or their pay demands. They have to compete against younger workers for less pay and in better physical condition.
Kona is a resort town and few restaurants and bars want to hire servers in their 50's and 60's plus they bring some employee baggage. Most of the managers are younger. Another obstacle.
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The situation sort of brings to mind the question ... Are companies who reorganize, downsize, etc and as a result, lay people off ALWAYS just heartless bastards?
I mean, do we always expect employment forever from any company we join, regardless of anything else?
Suppose that:
1) Technology changes, and people no longer need buggy whips? Do you expect the buggy whip manufacturer to re-tool from plaiting leather and hemp fibers to casting water-pump bodies?
2) Suppose they discover fracking for cheap natural gas, and, as a result, the return on investment for building and maintaining nuclear plants drops. Does the nuclear services company just pay everyone even though though there's no business in repairing and installing new plants?
3) Suppose someone invents a machine that can wind thread onto bobbins 100 times faster than a person can do it? Do you just keep paying that thread-winding person anyhow even though there's no more need for the job? Or should that person head off to the company that makes the winding machine and look for a job there, making winding machines?
Just seems like it's something that everyone should expect and be ready for, not something where we just cuss the "bosses" for throwing us out in the cold. Very often, they didn't invent the "cold" ...
Lannis
As long as there are large facilities, people like me will be required. With me kind of people, you wouldn't get nice conditioned air winter and summer. :evil:
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Kona is a resort town and few restaurants and bars want to hire servers in their 50's and 60's plus they bring some employee baggage. Most of the managers are younger. Another obstacle.
Although I must say that I've seen quite a few older guys as waiters in nice restaurants lately. It's always been fairly common to see older black guys as waiters, usually since they've hung with it since back in the days when it was the only job they could get, and found that they could do pretty well with it later; but lately, it seems that there are older white and latino professional waiters.
My great-uncle Daniel Perez, who immigrated from Cuba around 1935 and who married my grandmother's youngest sister causing a family scandal, was a professional waiter in the big hotels and restaurants in Washington DC in the 1940s and 1950s. Fancy restaurants competed for his services, and big-shots who would come in to the place would ask for him by name. (He used to take me to Washington Senator ball games when I were a lad. Really nice guy.) He retired around 1959, and a few years later bought a big home in St Petersburg, Florida and he and Aunt Viola moved there. They left seven figures of money in their inheritance when they died ....
I don't suppose every one can do that well, but you never know ...
Lannis
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Matthew Boulton and James Watt's Steam Engine: Why Industrial revolution started only in Britain :popcorn:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWppmWCW0Qw
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As long as there are large facilities, people like me will be required. With me kind of people, you wouldn't get nice conditioned air winter and summer. :evil:
But it's always something you didn't see coming that rocks your employment world.
Suppose they invent a pocket-sized power source that produces a personal invisible shield, within which you control the temperature and humidity independent of outdoor conditions? HVAC people would be hosed.
I suppose the contingency is remote, but when I was running PDP-11 computers from huge RK05 hard drives with 2.5 megabytes of storage, I would never have believed that you would soon be able to put a TERABYTE of non-volatile storage on something that would slip into your pocket.
So stay mobile anyway! :laugh:
Lannis
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I the end I always think there will be certain jobs that human beings have to do - I have always thought that my job is one of those jobs. I inspect properties for compliance with the law and then launch and se through to the end prosecutions resulting in fines of more than £20,000, can be unlimited. In some cases jail time is a possibility. Confiscation of property etc....
However there is a trend to "flat" management structures where there seems to be less space for the highly trained expert. In fact we are under threat not from machines, but from bean counters with a "tick box" mentality.
We have 5 days (counting today) in which to put our objections to the restructure. Our draft submission is in my hands and I'll read it later; it looks good but there's no accounting for what will happen. But we will have given it a very solid shot.
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Skeptic,
If you are in the UK and may be facing redundancy it can be worth knowing what your rights are. If you are served redundancy you may be entitled to additional days off to go to interviews or apply for other work.
You can get advice by joining a union such as Unite, (getting accelerated immediate full membership costs slightly more but its not a lot and you can sign up online) although employers take a dim view of union membership so its best just to use them for advice and to check over redundancy paper work if you are given notice. If anything is a miss or your getting screwed over Unite would spot it and represent you should you wish.
Also worth finding out what your companies policy is for references some companies state they only give a simple letter stating what your attendance record was in last 12 or 24 months employment.
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I'm in the Popular Peoples Front For The Liberation Of Judea. Not the Peoples Popular Front!! Splitters!!
Been a union guy since 1991 and since being in the UK have been in UNISON. :thumb:
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Laws in the UK are heavily bias towards the employer. I went through this exact scenario less than 2 years ago. My advice is start networking for a new job like your life depended on it. However depressing the thought of looking for a new job is, you will have some options no matter what happens. I have a friend who became a motorcycle instructor and loves it.
- & I ended up with a new job paying a hell of a lot more.
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Like they say. "One door closes. Another one opens." :thumb:
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Like they say. "One door closes. Another one opens." :thumb:
In my case, the door didn't close, they just shot themselves in the foot! :laugh:
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Good to hear that it worked out for you.
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Oh, I have never taken a dime from the government.
They take from us. I would have no problem taking some back.
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I the end I always think there will be certain jobs that human beings have to do - I have always thought that my job is one of those jobs. I inspect properties for compliance with the law and then launch and se through to the end prosecutions resulting in fines of more than £20,000, can be unlimited. In some cases jail time is a possibility. Confiscation of property etc....
However there is a trend to "flat" management structures where there seems to be less space for the highly trained expert. In fact we are under threat not from machines, but from bean counters with a "tick box" mentality.
We have 5 days (counting today) in which to put our objections to the restructure. Our draft submission is in my hands and I'll read it later; it looks good but there's no accounting for what will happen. But we will have given it a very solid shot.
Unfortunately you seem to have one of those jobs that is the perfect target for management. They can put together a little spreadsheet that shows how few people it takes to do the job and then fire the rest. The middle manager that suggest it will get a bonus until the company is sued due to mistakes made in the processes. Then he will get fired and the company may or many not survive depending on it's size.
It also seems to be a job that is not readily available anywhere else. I hope you survive this part. Not an easy thing to go through either. About the only thing I could think of to do would be to put together a small package that shows how much money you have 'made' or 'saved' the company over the past 5-10 years. But, that might fall on deaf ears too.
Good luck.