Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chuck in Indiana on August 07, 2016, 12:29:28 PM
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Dorcia and I were on the poker run at the Wisconsin rally, and we ran into an issue I've never heard of on the 6 speed. Shifted down just fine, and when we left a stop it wouldn't go past second gear. It's *not* the shift spring issue.. it will go into first, neutral, second.. but that's all. Came back to camp at 5000 rpm in second, and put it in the van. The chook was *not* happy to be back in the coop.. :smiley:
So. What am I looking at?
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Its all down hill from here, Chuck. I'll give you fifty bucks for it.
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<shrug> says it all. :undecided:
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The 'Old' six speeds are generally reliable apart from that wretched spring. Before you fly into a frenzy of spannering just pull the cam plate cover and have a look. Only other thing that springs to mind is the sintered bushings used somewhere in the box but I thought that only affected a few earlier models!
Try asking on V11.com. If there is a problem someone there will probably of seen it!
Pete
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Its all down hill from here, Chuck. I'll give you fifty bucks for it.
Cash? Got any left after that valve job? :evil: :smiley:
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The 'Old' six speeds are generally reliable apart from that wretched spring. Before you fly into a frenzy of spannering just pull the cam plate cover and have a look. Only other thing that springs to mind is the sintered bushings used somewhere in the box but I thought that only affected a few earlier models!
Try asking on V11.com. If there is a problem someone there will probably of seen it!
Pete
Yeah, maybe the problem will be obvious when I pull off the cover. My first thought was shifter fork, but there weren't any loud noises. At any rate, I was on high alert on the way back just in case there was a big piece floating around in the transmission..(!!)
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I heard somewhere that there is a guy in Indiana, with an Aero Lario and a kid who has an 1100 Sport with white wheels, that's a pretty good wrench. Maybe you could look him up and ask for help. I met him at a rally once seemed an alright fella. :grin:
Brian
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I heard somewhere that their is a guy in Indiana, with an Aero Lario and a kid who has an 1100 Sport with white wheels, that's a pretty good wrench. Maybe you could look him up and ask for help. I met him at a rally once seemed an alright fella. :grin:
Brian
That guy's pretty busy right now. Fortunately, I have a couple of (reliable) :evil: spare small blocks to finish out the riding season.. :smiley:
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Cash? Got any left after that valve job? :evil: :smiley:
The doc said I'll feel ten years younger. I can get a loan.
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The doc said I'll feel ten years younger. I can get a loan.
Don't be too sure about that loan. The reason I have the Scura is the guy Pete sold it to couldn't get one. I don't understand the problem. Just because it was titled to an Australian national and had Texas plates on it? :smiley:
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Dorcia and I were on the poker run at the Wisconsin rally, and we ran into an issue I've never heard of on the 6 speed. Shifted down just fine, and when we left a stop it wouldn't go past second gear. It's *not* the shift spring issue.. it will go into first, neutral, second.. but that's all. Came back to camp at 5000 rpm in second, and put it in the van. The chook was *not* happy to be back in the coop.. :smiley:
So. What am I looking at?
You may have checked this and neglected to mention it but have you checked to see there's no issue with the gear change lever or linkage fouling on something?
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Chuck...I think this is a sign the Scura needs to be sold...back to Texas!! :thumb: :thumb:
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Chuck, Sorry to hear of the problem but I am so glad I didn't take you up on the offer,( keys are in it)... Maybe we will have better luck at the Illinois rally next year! Norton - AeroLario...
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Chuck, Sorry to hear of the problem but I am so glad I didn't take you up on the offer,( keys are in it)... Maybe we will have better luck at the Illinois rally next year! Norton - AeroLario...
Yes sir. I won a FREE (Guzzi content) entry to the Illi noise rally next year. Can't let it go to waste.. :smiley:
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Try asking on V11.com. If there is a problem someone there will probably of seen it!
Uh, oh. I was afraid of that. Nobody on V11.com has heard of it, either, although Lucky Phil sez it's probably internal. Looks as if I'm treading uncharted waters here..
You may have checked this and neglected to mention it but have you checked to see there's no issue with the gear change lever or linkage fouling on something?
Yeah, although the Mighty Scura looks a little rough, I'm OCD about maintaining a bike a maintenance enthusiast. :smiley: Linkage is clean, lubed, and free.
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Don't be too sure about that loan. The reason I have the Scura is the guy Pete sold it to couldn't get one. I don't understand the problem. Just because it was titled to an Australian national and had Texas plates on it? :smiley:
That would be me. Funny thing, after I sent all the paperwork back to FGO to forward to Roper I discovered I had an available line of credit with no application. I could have just written a check. All to the good though. I probably would have killed myself on the Might Scura.
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Man, it was hot in the hanger today. The shop was full, so I couldn't stand it. Had to find out what was going on. Put a big box fan on a couple of saw horses and had at it.
It was the.. for want of a better term.. centering spring. Here you can see the broken spring and the shifter gizmo (technical term) which should be centered. With one leg broken, it won't allow the shifter to move up past second gear.
(https://c6.staticflickr.com/9/8893/28801844021_98385b6ce0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KT7YMB)1-003 (https://flic.kr/p/KT7YMB) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
If I held the gizmo on center, it would work normally. A pretty elegant design, really. Here's the offending spring.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/9/8799/28262187313_556ea1c407_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/K4r6DB)1-005 (https://flic.kr/p/K4r6DB) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
$9.88. Cheap. (Guzzi content) :)
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Looks like a shift return spring to me.
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Looks like a shift return spring to me.
You are right. The return spring never breaks, though. :) Rick and Gordon don't even stock it.
The one that breaks all the time looks like this.. it's the pawl spring.
(http://www.mgcycle.com/images/atrex/04238300.jpg)
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See Chuck, I knew that guy in Indiana would get you fixed right up, he's a great guy, as well as a pretty fair hand with a spanner!!
Brian,
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See Chuck, I knew that guy in Indiana would get you fixed right up, he's a great guy, as well as a pretty fair hand with a spanner!!
Brian,
Well.. like some dealers.. he works on the "earn while you learn" plan. The good part is he doesn't charge me anything. :)
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Yeah free is good. Same charge from my mechanic but mine's lazy as all get out. He's had the convert for a while now and all he's done is screw up a heli-coil for the transmission drain plug. I know he can fix it he's just lazy. Doesn't like to work when its hot, AC has spoiled him. He should be doing something about his weight too, fat slob just keeps getting fatter. Its all good. Those six speed gearboxes are so robust, you could almost call them indestructible, but if you did someone would blow one to bits. I was sure it would be simple, turns out it was, cool.
Brian
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Well that IS good news. The bike is back in play for Kentucky!
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My fifty dollars offer still stands.
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I replaced the springs on my '02 Scura (the originals turned out to be okay). A problem back then was a casting bump that liked to wear through the spring body on some transmissions. Lots of info about it on V11 Lemans site.
Also, while I had the door off the tranny, I spent some time playing with the adjusters. After buttoning it all up again, I filled the gearbox with synthetic and added a dose of Moly. It was the finest shifting motorcycle I have ever ridden.
Of course, that single plate clutch was a big part of how nicely the bike performed. (Not a segue to argue the single plate clutch thing again.)
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I replaced the springs on my '02 Scura (the originals turned out to be okay). A problem back then was a casting bump that liked to wear through the spring body on some transmissions. Lots of info about it on V11 Lemans site.
Also, while I had the door off the tranny, I spent some time playing with the adjusters. After buttoning it all up again, I filled the gearbox with synthetic and added a dose of Moly. It was the finest shifting motorcycle I have ever ridden.
Of course, that single plate clutch was a big part of how nicely the bike performed. (Not a segue to argue the single plate clutch thing again.)
Thanks. Lucky Phil has a post on tuning them up. The only issue I've ever had with the Mighty Scura or Rosie was very occasionally the lever would stick on a down shift. I may cure that problem yet today.
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Uh, oh. I was afraid of that. Nobody on V11.com has heard of it, either, although Lucky Phil sez it's probably internal. Looks as if I'm treading uncharted waters here..
That's odd. Must be a bunch of newbies there nowadays. Back in the early 2000's there were a bunch of posts about these and other problems.
I and others posted pictorials etc. I wonder if these things are available in their archives.
It's all the distant past for me.
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That's odd. Must be a bunch of newbies there nowadays. Back in the early 2000's there were a bunch of posts about these and other problems.
I and others posted pictorials etc. I wonder if these things are available in their archives.
It's all the distant past for me.
There are still a bunch of posts, but they are about the pawl spring breaking. Here's the one that breaks.. and the one I'll replace it with that I've been carrying around in the tool kit.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8744/28796213572_85895e4b48_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KSC83U)1-001 (https://flic.kr/p/KSC83U) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
Lucky Phil is not one of the dumbest bears in the woods, and when he speaks, I listen. No matter that he doesn't care for the red gaiters on the Lario. :cool: He says the shift lever occasionally sticking down can be cured by smoothing up the pawl where the shift drum rollers ride on it.
So. I put it in my grinder vise, indicated it flat, and painted the surface with Dykem red.
(https://c5.staticflickr.com/9/8763/28796208452_a58861b427_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KSC6wC)1-003 (https://flic.kr/p/KSC6wC) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
Set it up in my ancient surface grinder..
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8885/28825792711_9388e272b8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KVeHU4)1-007 (https://flic.kr/p/KVeHU4) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
And took a skin cut. You can see where it's not flat or smooth on either surface..
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8321/28796205312_38514c8d5a_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KSC5Au)1-004 (https://flic.kr/p/KSC5Au) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8888/28283744824_2979f9858c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/K6kzWQ)1-006 (https://flic.kr/p/K6kzWQ) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
A couple of thousandths did the trick.
(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8769/28825797751_b11fe18245_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/KVeKoX)1-005 (https://flic.kr/p/KVeKoX) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
Installed the new spring, and reassembled. Just waiting for the new centering spring to arrive, and I'll put it back together.
I'll post a few tricks that I learned when reassembling it.
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Well, how does it work? I just did the same thing Sat on a Coppa, but taught the owner how to so he can do it next time. I changed 2 springs while I had it open, usually I do all 3 but the one is NA now.
I take it you figured out to put all 4 knobs at 1/2" from edge of case inner surface for the door to go right on slick. The wheels and door are a work of art if you like clocks.
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Well, how does it work? I just did the same thing Sat on a Coppa, but taught the owner how to so he can do it next time. I changed 2 springs while I had it open, usually I do all 3 but the one is NA now.
I take it you figured out to put all 4 knobs at 1/2" from edge of case inner surface for the door to go right on slick. The wheels and door are a work of art if you like clocks.
Absolutely.. very elegant. I posted the pitfalls I ran into on the V11 forum for first timers like me. Shifts beautifully, of course. I'll be interested to see if that very occasional sticking when shifting down is cured. We're still having rainaggedon, complete with tornadoes, so I haven't ridden it yet.
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Ok, the rainageddon has passed. Still pop ups around, but I can Shirley ride around them. I'm fully aware that if you spend a lot of money or do some work, you naturally think you did some good. :azn:
Shifting is *much* better. Props to Lucky Phil. I'm *really* aware of how the Mighty Scura shifts.. after all I've mainly ridden it in the SoCal canyons with constant shifting for 14000 miles. It's slick as snot. Neutral is just a click away..
Every time I ran into rain I turned around. Gave me more time to check out the shifting. :smiley: Eventually, the rain moved east, and I came back to the Guzzi Garage. (tm)
I wouldn't have thought that a couple of new springs and making the shift pawl flat would make such a difference, but it does. (Where's that thumbs up emoticon?)
BTW. Guzzi offers an updated shift assembly. Thanks again to Lucky Phil. P/N 01 20 16 41. Harpers wants a paltry $344.37 for it. Gulp. Ill make do, but it looks to me to be sturdier.
Put my riding gear out to dry, and called it a good day.
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Nice work, got the mighty beast back and rid yourself of low ballers for only the cost of a spring.
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Nice save, Chuck! I hope your upcoming fall rides are trouble-free! :thumb:
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Nice work, got the mighty beast back and rid yourself of low ballers for only the cost of a spring.
:grin: You know, actually that is true. Guys have dumped bikes with transmission problems when all it took was a $10 part and a little labor..