Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: robdrobd on August 22, 2016, 01:52:17 PM
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2013 V7 Stone. I discovered a small puddle of oil underneath my bike yesterday. It appeared that the oil was on the bottom of the starter motor. After removing the starter motor I found a Y connector with oil all over it. I now have several questions:
1) Where is this oil coming from
2) Why is there oil in my airbox
3) Why does the hose in the picture seem to end at the airbox, but no hole appears in the airbox
4) My bike barely if ever starts, every day, every time then runs flawlessly when it finally fires. I'm 24 hours away from trading it in. I've heard AND read a lot of posts about people who are not happy with the fuel/oil systems on these bikes. Others love them to death. 5) How is this possible?
6) Depression from buyers remorse is setting in.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nkK9Jv/20160822_142507.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nkK9Jv)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/n1WOdv/20160822_142634.jpg) (http://ibb.co/n1WOdv)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/e4uyBF/20160822_142659.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e4uyBF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bsrpJv/20160822_142716.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bsrpJv)
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Don't despair Rob , one of our small block gurus will be along shortly . This a common problem , although the fix eludes me at the moment .
Dusty
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If you buy a motorcycle and don't make an effort to understand how it works, you have only yourself to blame when something goes wrong and you can't understand why. Have you ever read the service manual or looked at the parts book? The info you get from those sources will be more reliable than what you will get from forums like this one. I can tell you that your oil leak is a very minor problem that is easily fixed. If this "problem" induces buyer's remorse, then perhaps you'd be better off selling your bike and getting a Toyota.
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Edited so it is easier for the gurus to spot .
Dusty
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Toyota doesn't build motorbikes , and the idea that Pete , Guzzisteve , or one of our other experts can't help with this is silly . Patience .
Dusty
Edit , yes reading the manual is a good idea .
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The oil in the airbox is from blow-by. It's there because there is too much oil in the engine. You only need to fill it to about 75-80% full, otherwise it can get 'blown' into the air box. There are little spongy filters to soak up the oil, but they can only do so much.
As for the poor starting. It's the fuel map. You should consider getting the update to the latest factory map, or seek a custom map.
Don't despair, the V7 is a good bike. We can fix it for you. Despite what some say, there are many knowledgeable and helpful peeps on this site.
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If you buy a motorcycle and don't make an effort to understand how it works, you have only yourself to blame when something goes wrong and you can't understand why. Have you ever read the service manual or looked at the parts book? The info you get from those sources will be more reliable than what you will get from forums like this one. I can tell you that your oil leak is a very minor problem that is easily fixed. If this "problem" induces buyer's remorse, then perhaps you'd be better off selling your bike and getting a Toyota.
I came here so someone would help me with my "minor" problem and tell me how to fix it.
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The oil in the airbox is from blow-by. It's there because there is too much oil in the engine. You only need to fill it to about 75-80% full, otherwise it can get 'blown' into the air box. There are little spongy filters to soak up the oil, but they can only do so much.
As for the poor starting. It's the fuel map. You should consider getting the update to the latest factory map, or seek a custom map.
Don't despair, the V7 is a good bike. We can fix it for you. Despite what some say, there are many knowledgeable and helpful peeps on this site.
Beetle, thank you. I read that that might be the issue so I checked the oil. It was serviced at 600miles in Kentucky and the oil read 1/4 above the full line. I also read that I can buy cables to do diagnostic tests. WI'll those same cables re map with the right software?
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Sure will. Get the GuzziDiag cables and software and I'll do you a solid by giving you one of my custom maps.
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Sure will. Get the GuzziDiag cables and software and I'll do you a solid by giving you one of my custom maps.
1) Where can I get them?
2) Do they plug into that extra little cable hanging out behind my triple tree, green 4 prong?
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2013 V7 Stone. I discovered a small puddle of oil underneath my bike yesterday. It appeared that the oil was on the bottom of the starter motor. After removing the starter motor I found a Y connector with oil all over it. I now have several questions:
1) Where is this oil coming from
2) Why is there oil in my airbox
3) Why does the hose in the picture seem to end at the airbox, but no hole appears in the airbox
4) My bike barely if ever starts, every day, every time then runs flawlessly when it finally fires. I'm 24 hours away from trading it in. I've heard AND read a lot of posts about people who are not happy with the fuel/oil systems on these bikes. Others love them to death.
5) How is this possible?
6) Depression from buyers remorse is setting in.
1. All modern internal combustion 4-stroke motors are plumbed to catch and burn oil blowby and misting from the crankcase, so the crankcase ventilation system is always routed to the intake tract. On many Guzzis if you run the oil level all the way up to the full mark you will likely get more oil misting. The smallblock uses two vents from the heads each plumbed to spongy filters inside the airbox where the oil can condense and separate from the air. Vapors are drawn into the air box itself and burned through the intake tract, while condensed oil drains back through two hoses, a Y-junction, a check valve or something like that and finally a single hose back into the crankcase.
2. See #1 - no big deal, wipe it with a rag every 5k-10k miles. But the higher you run the oil and the faster you spin the motor (more rpms) the more oil you'll find.
3. See #1 - the oil/vapor separators are in another part of the airbox and shouldn't need to be accessed. Oil drains from them, and air passes from them internally into the airbox for burning.
4. Not sure what you mean, but my V7 has never had a problem starting. You could need a valve adjustment, or spark plugs (if you're burning too much oil vapor they could be getting fouled), or a remap, or ________________. But there's no reason it shouldn't be turn-key reliable like mine, or Cam's, or Jay's or ....
5. See #1 and #4 - many of us have completely trouble-free bikes, could boil down to simple maintenance.
6. Nah, we can help you get it sorted.
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Told ya Rob , thanks guys :bow:
Dusty
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1. All modern internal combustion 4-stroke motors are plumbed to catch and burn oil blowby and misting from the crankcase, so the crankcase ventilation system is always routed to the intake tract. On many Guzzis if you run the oil level all the way up to the full mark you will likely get more oil misting. The smallblock uses two vents from the heads each plumbed to spongy filters inside the airbox where the oil can condense and separate from the air. Vapors are drawn into the air box itself and burned through the intake tract, while condensed oil drains back through two hoses, a Y-junction, a check valve or something like that and finally a single hose back into the crankcase.
2. See #1 - no big deal, wipe it with a rag every 5k-10k miles. But the higher you run the oil and the faster you spin the motor (more rpms) the more oil you'll find.
3. See #1 - the oil/vapor separators are in another part of the airbox and shouldn't need to be accessed. Oil drains from them, and air passes from them internally into the airbox for burning.
4. Not sure what you mean, but my V7 has never had a problem starting. You could need a valve adjustment, or spark plugs (if you're burning too much oil vapor they could be getting fouled), or a remap, or ________________. But there's no reason it shouldn't be turn-key reliable like mine, or Cam's, or Jay's or ....
5. See #1 and #4 - many of us have completely trouble-free bikes, could boil down to simple maintenance.
6. Nah, we can help you get it sorted.
Is there any kind of electric safe guard that would prevent the engine from starting if a signicant amount of oil mist is getting in the intake? I just have a feeling that the ECU is reading too much of something and not allowing the bike to fire as a safety measure. What do you think?
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The V7 ECU has an air pressure sensor built into the throttle body. I suppose if that got clogged with oil it could affect many things. The intake-pressure correction table in the map has a significant affect.
You can get the cables from Amazon or eBay, just make sure they have the FTDI chip. You can get them from Lonelec in the UK, but they might take a week or more to get to you.
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Is there any kind of electric safe guard that would prevent the engine from starting if a signicant amount of oil mist is getting in the intake? I just have a feeling that the ECU is reading too much of something and not allowing the bike to fire as a safety measure. What do you think?
Beetle would know better than me, but I think the basic answer is no. I mean, not purposely designed to do that, but too much mist could be fouling things (like the spark plugs, or the pressure sensor, the later could give the ECM bad data regarding how much fuel is necessary, which could cause trouble starting).
When you're having trouble starting what happens, it cranks and cranks but doesn't fire/catch? Or does it catch and die?
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Kev's right. There's nothing specifically designed to prevent the engine from starting. The excess oil could foul the plugs however.
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Is there any kind of electric safe guard that would prevent the engine from starting if a signicant amount of oil mist is getting in the intake? I just have a feeling that the ECU is reading too much of something and not allowing the bike to fire as a safety measure. What do you think?
Short answer, no - the ECU isn't that 'smart'. Rob's comment is relevant, but would be very unusual. The 2013 V7 Stone definitely needs a map update - several have been issued by the factory since then, but Beetle's are almost always significantly better for most riders. The oil level is almost certainly too high - anything above mid-level on the indicator section of the stick would be too high on any small block I've seen. The plugs may well be fouled, and should be either cleaned or replaced once the oil level has been lowered. Drain the oil from the airbox (if the plug still is in the drain hose); if you like, you can also go into the airbox and wipe up the extra with paper towel or a shop rag. If the starter relay modification has not been done, do it - the motor will crank and fire more easily in both good situations and bad.
Once these things are done, you'll be well on your way to a reliable and very enjoyable bike. I owned a 2004 Breva small block for more than 5 years - it had a few issues, which I fixed, but was a great motorcycle that I didn't sell until I bought my Norge.
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Beetle would know better than me, but I think the basic answer is no. I mean, not purposely designed to do that, but too much mist could be fouling things (like the spark plugs, or the pressure sensor, the later could give the ECM bad data regarding how much fuel is necessary, which could cause trouble starting).
When you're having trouble starting what happens, it cranks and cranks but doesn't fire/catch? Or does it catch and die?
Cranks and cranks and cranks.......and cranks. When it catches it stays at idle and ride fine. Can take 25 cranks on bad days to fire.
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Could be you're starting procedure. I know some people like to grab a handful of throttle while pushing the starter button. My 2013 special starts first time every time without touching the throttle at all.
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Could be you're starting procedure. I know some people like to grab a handful of throttle while pushing the starter button. My 2013 special starts first time every time without touching the throttle at all.
I've tried every suggested starting procedure from coast to coast. With EFI I certainly didn't touch the throttle for the first ten tries, however after numerous failed attempts it was definitely tried.
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Rob I'd start with basics. Wipe up oil in airbox, maybe replace filter if necessary, check spark plug gap and condition, check valve clearances. Go from there.
Drain the oil from the airbox (if the plug still is in the drain hose); if you like, you can also go into the airbox and wipe up the extra with paper towel or a shop rag.
No drain hose/plug per se, the oil drains back into the crankcase on the 1TB smallblocks.
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There is a hole in the front of the airbox, below the intake. It's high enough off the bottom where any oil blown in won't drain out.
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On the subject of the factory map updates for the single TB V7's and V7-II's I've has several machines that ran significantly worse after the new map was installed. Why? I have no idea! But it has caused me to not even bother installing it if the bike is currently running OK.
My concrete suggestion is that owners try a Beetlemap. If they don't like it we can easily reinstall what they had before and refund their money. So far I have had to repay zero monies and people seem to be as happy as pigs in shit.
Overfilling of the sump will cause all the issues with leakage and poor running you're currently experiencing. Get the service and tune right first and see what happens. My bet is your air filter is like a sodden, oily sponge! That won't help!
Pete
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...6) Depression from buyers remorse is setting in.
Yep, It's not much fun when a newly acquired bike doesn't run as one hopes.
My 2015 V7 can be a bit finicky. Really cold blooded when I first start it, takes a lot of revs to get it going without stalling. Once it's warm, no issues. I have had a rare occasion where it does start hard when it's really, really hot (and the bike has been ridden hard :laugh: ).
I'll probably re-flash the ECU sometime, but I'm waiting until I replace the stock pipes so I only have to do it once.
But my colleagues on this forum have enough knowledge that they'll have you sorted in no time.
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Your 'other' motorcycle journey will now start. Be advised and enjoy the expertise of our fine company, the ones with the thinner wallets. :rolleyes:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/perfect%20italian_zpsegllk5dc.jpg)
:laugh:
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I have had a rare occasion where it does start hard when it's really, really hot (and the bike has been ridden hard :laugh: ).
For hot starts, try starting at 3/4 open throttle.
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Probably of little relation to your bike, and the posters are far more knowledgeable than I.
But I've noticed that when my Bassa doesn't readily wake up, continuously cranking it just makes me despair.
Whereas letting off on the starter button, waiting several seconds, and then trying anew usually yields better results. There is probably a technical explanation for this, but I'm still at the sacrificing chickens stage, so I dunno.
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Norm , I see the problem , it isn't chickens :shocked:
Dusty
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Mapping & bad starts
Try ditching the factory map (you can always put it back if you want)
This is a cut & paste from one of my entries in another thread
Just ask if your having trouble (but please be polite - find something else to vent at first)
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Read the start of this thread just to familiarise yourself with GuzziDiag.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69168.0 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69168.0)
Get the cable interface from here - seriously, FROM HERE! They work, no brainer.
http://lonelec.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=57_20&product_id=51 (http://lonelec.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=57_20&product_id=51)
Download the software from here.
http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/ (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/)
You need
- GuzziDiag V0.47 (This enables you to view diagnostics live)
- IAWMIUG3Reader (This enables you to upload and save the current map in the bike)
- IAWMIUG3Writer (This enables you to download a new map to the bike)
I'm running Windows 7 and it was simple Plug & Play (I know, amazing!)
Start by opening GuzziDaig to confirm you have connection.
Then run the Reader and upload/save the current map. (Make another backup copy if you want) - now nothing can go wrong because you can always re-download the factory map.
Talk sweetly to Mark (Beetle) and offer some kind of recognition for his work!
Run the Writer to download the new map.
Test the bike. Give feedback.
DONATE TO THE GUZZIDIAG GUY(S) - They've put in a lot of effort for YOUR benefit.
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Oil in Airbox
The higher your oil level & the harder you run the bike, the more oil will blow into your airbox.
I put too much in it once and went for a hard ride on a stinking hot day and ended up soaking the air filter. My stuff up.
Try filling to mid way point only.
(I ended up adding a sump extender then keeping the oil at the lowest marking. I still get some oil misting in the airbox, it's just part of having an air cooled engine)
Your oil leak
This looks to be coming from the Y-Connector on your oil return line to the sump.
Most of the blowby oil on your model is seperated from the air/gasses at sponges located in the front of the airbox.
There are 2 of them.
The seperated oil runs down 2 return lines that are joined at the Y-Connector.
Check the connector and the hose clamps for failure or further up at the airbox end of the hoses (the oil could be running down the outside of one of the hoses).
Hope this helps.
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Mapping & bad starts
Try ditching the factory map (you can always put it back if you want)
This is a cut & paste from one of my entries in another thread
Just ask if your having trouble (but please be polite - find something else to vent at first)
==========
Read the start of this thread just to familiarise yourself with GuzziDiag.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69168.0 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=69168.0)
Get the cable interface from here - seriously, FROM HERE! They work, no brainer.
http://lonelec.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=57_20&product_id=51 (http://lonelec.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&path=57_20&product_id=51)
Download the software from here.
http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/ (http://www.von-der-salierburg.de/download/GuzziDiag/)
You need
- GuzziDiag V0.47 (This enables you to view diagnostics live)
- IAWMIUG3Reader (This enables you to upload and save the current map in the bike)
- IAWMIUG3Writer (This enables you to download a new map to the bike)
I'm running Windows 7 and it was simple Plug & Play (I know, amazing!)
Start by opening GuzziDaig to confirm you have connection.
Then run the Reader and upload/save the current map. (Make another backup copy if you want) - now nothing can go wrong because you can always re-download the factory map.
Talk sweetly to Mark (Beetle) and offer some kind of recognition for his work!
Run the Writer to download the new map.
Test the bike. Give feedback.
DONATE TO THE GUZZIDIAG GUY(S) - They've put in a lot of effort for YOUR benefit.
=====
Oil in Airbox
The higher your oil level & the harder you run the bike, the more oil will blow into your airbox.
I put too much in it once and went for a hard ride on a stinking hot day and ended up soaking the air filter. My stuff up.
Try filling to mid way point only.
(I ended up adding a sump extender then keeping the oil at the lowest marking. I still get some oil misting in the airbox, it's just part of having an air cooled engine)
Your oil leak
This looks to be coming from the Y-Connector on your oil return line to the sump.
Most of the blowby oil on your model is seperated from the air/gasses at sponges located in the front of the airbox.
There are 2 of them.
The seperated oil runs down 2 return lines that are joined at the Y-Connector.
Check the connector and the hose clamps for failure or further up at the airbox end of the hoses (the oil could be running down the outside of one of the hoses).
Hope this helps.
Thanks, I ordered the GuzziDiag cables today. Do your think any of the excessive oil would cause starting problems, or may likely the mapping?
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I'm not a mechanic, but as a controls engineer I can tell you that if everything else isn't right mechanically then a good program won't do shit.
So check everything others have mentioned as well.
A beetle map WILL make the bike run better, however I've NEVER had any problems starting mine so I can't answer definitavely about that.
Good luck. Check in with us.
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In my experience the running and starting issues are always the result of the mapping changes. Why? I'm not sure but my guess would probably be a mixture of their cheap, crude, control unit, (The GUI3 is used on a host of super-cheap scooters etc. they can be neither expensive or sophisticated.) and variances in its manufacture and operation. And the fact that the maps themselves seem crude and pretty poorly developed.
The fact that the only tuning option available from the factory is 'Replace the control unit' is extremely frustrating and if it wasn't for the Guzzidiag guys we'd still be at the mercy of that doctrine or the 'off the shelf' answers from some of the big aftermarket suppliers who, while they may make better stuff 'Off the shelf' for other brands offer only slightly less crude 'Sollutions' for Guzzis because the market is so tiny.
As has been the case since forever, when you're dealing with Guzzi you either put up with the foibles or you learn to 'Roll yer own'.
Pete
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I'll mention it one more time in the spirit of helping. Call Jim at Hamlin Cycles in CT and ride your bike there for a full service. It'll be perfect when it's done. You'll also be right there to see and learn about your bike. Easy ride: 390 to 17 to 17K to bridge in Newberg to 84 to exit 5 (RT 53 S) to the shop. A nice 5 hour ride thru pleasant countryside. Stop in Appalachian just our side of Binghamton at the BBQ place you'll see off of the 17 1 mile before the exit. It's also where the Sunoco is.
Enjoy the nice day ride down and the ride back on your perfect V7 will be a great one. There's a Days Inn a few miles from the shop for 73 bucks a night. Great food and bar 2 minutes walk from the Inn as a bonus.
Seriously. Get it fixed right. My V7 runs as well as any vehicle of any sort I've ever owned. Yours should too.
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Can anyone give me a quick run down on what the new mapping will most likely do? I'm fairly certain my bike currently has the original factory map. I'm just curious as to what it tweaks to help performance, starting, idling, etc.
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12-14 V7 1TB 5 speed gearbox, original map = 3523V702, updated map = 352BV738
The factory updated map helped w/cold starts, you could go off riding before 2min was up. Some say it helped in other areas also.
Never saw a mention on mileage of service & what was performed, or if it has ever been serviced. EDIT: just read serviced at 600mi, sorry.
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12-14 V7 1TB 5 speed gearbox, original map = 3523V702, updated map = 352BV738
The factory updated map helped w/cold starts, you could go off riding before 2min was up. Some say it helped in other areas also.
Never saw a mention on mileage of service & what was performed, or if it has ever been serviced.
Mine (2104 Special) has the updated map. Still has the cold start issue, but has really smoothed out the shifting and riding at low speed/RPMs.
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My map will give you better cold start (30 second warm-up), smoother low-end riding and a linear power curve.
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Can anyone give me a quick run down on what the new mapping will most likely do? I'm fairly certain my bike currently has the original factory map. I'm just curious as to what it tweaks to help performance, starting, idling, etc.
for my 2014:
Better cold starts.
Better running upon cold start in cool weather.
Better idle. Less hunting.
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I lived with the original map for a couple of years and more than half of the 12.5k miles on my V7 right now.
The new map did VERY LITTLE (maybe even nothing).
Cold running is still a problem from the second it tries to enter closed loop for the first few minutes until the heads/combustion chambers start to come up to temperature.
As a matter of fact I thought of the OP today when I started the bike and realized I was running late for a business meeting.
I tried to pull away after only maybe 20 seconds and the bike stalled (predictably).
But then when I went to restart it, the first attempt failed (which almost NEVER happens on my bike). Then the second attempt failed too.
Third attempt (after cycling ignition and waiting a few seconds) let it start but it hunted more violently than ever before.
My SWAG is the failed starting attempts led to minor flooding, which made it hard to start, and once it did start gave the now warmed 02 sensors (thanks to the heaters) absolute fits as the ECM tried to start the feedback loop right away.
I still rode off after only a minute or so of warmup, sooner than I should have (see that being late thing) and it surged and bucked like it has never done before.
Minutes later it was absolutely fine as usual.
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I lived with the original map for a couple of years and more than half of the 12.5k miles on my V7 right now.
The new map did VERY LITTLE (maybe even nothing).
Cold running is still a problem from the second it tries to enter closed loop for the first few minutes until the heads/combustion chambers start to come up to temperature.
As a matter of fact I thought of the OP today when I started the bike and realized I was running late for a business meeting.
I tried to pull away after only maybe 20 seconds and the bike stalled (predictably).
But then when I went to restart it, the first attempt failed (which almost NEVER happens on my bike). Then the second attempt failed too.
Third attempt (after cycling ignition and waiting a few seconds) let it start but it hunted more violently than ever before.
My SWAG is the failed starting attempts led to minor flooding, which made it hard to start, and once it did start gave the now warmed 02 sensors (thanks to the heaters) absolute fits as the ECM tried to start the feedback loop right away.
I still rode off after only a minute or so of warmup, sooner than I should have (see that being late thing) and it surged and bucked like it has never done before.
Minutes later it was absolutely fine as usual.
The end of your post sounds like my problem every day. As of its flooding out.
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The end of your post sounds like my problem every day. As of its flooding out.
How rushed are you when you leave in the morning?
Do you:
1. Turn ignition key on.
2. Let fuel pump run/instrument cluster initialize
3. LEAVE THE THROTTLE ALONE.
4. Hit starter and continue to leave the throttle alone for a minute or so as it warms up?
That's my usual routine, an 99% of the time there's no problem, unless I start touching the throttle and try to put it in gear/pull away.
If you're doing all that and it seems like it is flooding I'd be very tempted to check the basics as I mentioned earlier (spark plug and wire condition, valve adjustment, maybe even throttle cable adjustment if it seems tight, the condition of the air filter etc.).
IF it's still not right - try a Beetle map.
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How rushed are you when you leave in the morning?
Do you:
1. Turn ignition key on.
2. Let fuel pump run/instrument cluster initialize
3. LEAVE THE THROTTLE ALONE.
4. Hit starter and continue to leave the throttle alone for a minute or so as it warms up?
That's my usual routine, an 99% of the time there's no problem, unless I start touching the throttle and try to put it in gear/pull away.
If you're doing all that and it seems like it is flooding I'd be very tempted to check the basics as I mentioned earlier (spark plug and wire condition, valve adjustment, maybe even throttle cable adjustment if it seems tight, the condition of the air filter etc.).
IF it's still not right - try a Beetle map.
Turn key, wait for everything to "run the checks", don't touch the throttle, push the button, cranks strong, doesn't start, ending with a quick suction sound coming from airbox. Plugs are dry, new, and gapped. Have not checked valves.
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Hmmm, and have you tried a cold start with the fuel cap removed from the tank to confirm there are no pressurization/vacuum problems?
After that check the valve lash, and meanwhile order those cables so you're ready for a Bettle map.
Maybe consider looking down the throttle body to see if oil has fouled anything in there.
Would love to know what the MAP sensor thinks about ambient pressure (in case it's fouled).
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Just a thought.
As mentioned before in this thread, have you checked the air cleaner? Could it be soaked with oil? I don't know how hard it is to check, but it might be worth checking?
Good luck!!!!
Tom
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Just a thought.
As mentioned before in this thread, have you checked the air cleaner? Could it be soaked with oil? I don't know how hard it is to check, but it might be worth checking?
Good luck!!!!
Tom
Very easy to check and yes... I'm hoping it's been cleaned and checked by now!
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Step by step
1. remove a couple of hundred ml of oil from the sump
2. replace the spark plugs with new ones
3. remove the breather hoses & clean them, inside & out & replace them.
4. remove the air filter.
5. clean the air box thoroughly - paper towels in all the nooks & crannies. Wipe again with a solvent on the towel.
6. replace the air filter with a new one.
7. test the spark on each side - the standard plug caps have been known to make bad connections on the plugs' posts - I've replaced my plugs & caps with ones that grip the thread.
8. try starting procedure again.
Keep an eye on more oil coming into the bottom of the airbox. and clean the bottom out every service/air filter change.
If you still have problems, it may be that oil from the airbox has coated the inside of the throttle body and the inlet manifold and is now gunked up. They can be accessed in situ from the top with clean rags & a light application of solvent, but it helps to know what the inside looks like. Try it - can't hurt & worked on my V7 Special. BTW when I removed the twin throttle bodies on the V7C they were were black inside with oil & dust- over-filled the oiled filter I'd guess - I now use paper filters only - and the bike ran better afterwards.
Good luck
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Can anyone give me a quick run down on what the new mapping will most likely do?
MY experience with a Beetle map:
- Smoother engine run at idle (Pete, Michael & I instantly noticed this the moment the bike was first started with the new map)
- Improvement at lower revs (in city traffic)
- Improvement at higher revs (when fanging it)
- Smooth acceleration, in any gear, all the way to 7k
- No notchy "happy" place in the rev range. Engine is happy to sit & cruise on any revs in any gear.
- Smooth roll on/off with the throttle (no statchyness)
- Improved start & go (but I still start it then put on my gloves & helmet. It's a habit, but also gives zero problems)
- Zero 'warm start & go' bogging down issues :bow:
- No noticible loss in mileage
I love the Beetle map. It shits all over the factory map I had.
I wouldn't even mind a decal for the bike saying "BeetleMapped" :evil:
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I decided to change oil and filter while it's up on the blocks before I put everything back together. Should I add the full 2 liters since the stick was reading 1/4 inch above? Also, since this bike isn't starting well is there an estimate of where the dips tick should read without the bike being run?
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No never put in the full capacity for a myriad of reasons.
Put in 1.5L, crank to fill filter, check and make sure oil is only about 1/2 way up range.
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I decided to change oil and filter while it's up on the blocks before I put everything back together. Should I add the full 2 liters since the stick was reading 1/4 inch above? Also, since this bike isn't starting well is there an estimate of where the dips tick should read without the bike being run?
Do NOT add the two full liters. Put in 1 1/2, then run it. Let it settle then check the level. Top it off until it's in the middle of the high/low on the stick.
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Do NOT add the two full liters. Put in 1 1/2, then run it. Let it settle then check the level. Top it off until it's in the middle of the high/low on the stick.
If the bike won't fire, is there a spot on the stick I should be at with the engine cold?
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If the bike won't fire, is there a spot on the stick I should be at with the engine cold?
Cranking it will fill the oil lines and filter, so half way should still be good. I keep my level there, and I still wipe out the air box every once in a while. But I rev the hell outta mine.
Try some SeaFoam in the gas in case your injectors are clogged?
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Cranking it will fill the oil lines and filter, so half way should still be good. I keep my level there, and I still wipe out the air box every once in a while. But I rev the hell outta mine.
Try some SeaFoam in the gas in case your injectors are clogged?
I havent tried an additive yet. Also, will the GuzziDiag give readings if something is wrong or just remap?
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I havent tried an additive yet. Also, will the GuzziDiag give readings if something is wrong or just remap?
Don't know, haven't used GuzziDiag yet.
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Here's an easy question amidst all the others. How do you guys get those darn hose clamps off!?!
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GuzziDiag or any scan tool only tell you;
1. If there is a fault that the ECM recognizes because the value of the circuit is so far out of wack that it sets a code. And then there is normally a check engine light to have earned you that you need to check the code.
Or
2. Maybe you can catch an obvious sensor value that's just a bit out of range, like an ambient temperature rating 20°F higher than actual temp or something like that.
As for the hose clamps, bad news. They're "crimped" meaning they are use once, cut off (by sniping the crimp itself) and throw away.
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GuzziDiag or any scan tool only tell you;
1. If there is a fault that the ECM recognizes because the value of the circuit is so far out of wack that it sets a code. And then there is normally a check engine light to have earned you that you need to check the code.
Or
2. Maybe you can catch an obvious sensor value that's just a bit out of range, like an ambient temperature rating 20�F higher than actual temp or something like that.
As for the hose clamps, bad news. They're "crimped" meaning they are use once, cut off (by sniping the crimp itself) and throw away.
After numerous starting attempts I do get a check engine light. How do I read the code it's producing?
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After numerous starting attempts I do get a check engine light. How do I read the code it's producing?
GuzziDiag will help you out there and that might give you a clue as to what is happening. But I assume it goes away shortly after startup, so it may not even be stored when it's not present, depends on the code and how Guzzi programmed the self-diagnosis memory functions.
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GuzziDiag will help you out there and that might give you a clue as to what is happening. But I assume it goes away shortly after startup, so it may not even be stored when it's not present, depends on the code and how Guzzi programmed the self-diagnosis memory functions.
Yep, once the bike fires it goes away and doesn't return.
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Here's an easy question amidst all the others. How do you guys get those darn hose clamps off!?!
Those wire clamps - best off (& back on) with big long nose pliers; still awkward though. It gets easier (but not easy) with practice.
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MY experience with a Beetle map:
- Smoother engine run at idle (Pete, Michael & I instantly noticed this the moment the bike was first started with the new map)
- Improvement at lower revs (in city traffic)
- Improvement at higher revs (when fanging it)
- Smooth acceleration, in any gear, all the way to 7k
- No notchy "happy" place in the rev range. Engine is happy to sit & cruise on any revs in any gear.
- Smooth roll on/off with the throttle (no statchyness)
- Improved start & go (but I still start it then put on my gloves & helmet. It's a habit, but also gives zero problems)
- Zero 'warm start & go' bogging down issues :bow:
- No noticible loss in mileage
Clancy, could you tell me which map version are you using? Could you post checksum?
I love the Beetle map. It shits all over the factory map I had.
I wouldn't even mind a decal for the bike saying "BeetleMapped" :evil:
Me too, me tooo :) Come on Beetle, make some fork stickers :evil:
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Those wire clamps - best off (& back on) with big long nose pliers; still awkward though. It gets easier (but not easy) with practice.
Yep. Real PIA. Make sure they are close to the end of the hose or you'll never get them back on.
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Yep. Real PIA. Make sure they are close to the end of the hose or you'll never get them back on.
Back on, aren't those crimped???
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GuzziDiag or any scan tool only tell you;
1. If there is a fault that the ECM recognizes because the value of the circuit is so far out of wack that it sets a code. And then there is normally a check engine light to have earned you that you need to check the code.
Or
2. Maybe you can catch an obvious sensor value that's just a bit out of range, like an ambient temperature rating 20�F higher than actual temp or something like that.
As for the hose clamps, bad news. They're "crimped" meaning they are use once, cut off (by sniping the crimp itself) and throw away.
Or buy the correct pliers so you can re-use them. Generally though I agree, they suck! :grin:
Pete
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I thought they were always supposed to be replaced???
No?
Or is that just good practice?
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I thought these were Oetiker clamps, and always had to be replaced with new even when using the correct pliers. I know there are some clamps that are not Oetiker and are not screw-type (Tridon, et al) that use a ratcheting-style tightenting using a plier, that can be re-used, but I didn't think they were used on this application (or most, for Moto Guzzi).
Personally, I have shifted over to using all Oetiker clamps, and only use the Tridon style for my on-the-road repair kit.
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Step1- I found the oil leak. The Y connector behind the starter was broken in the leg that drains in the sump. Where can I get another one of these babies? Can I get a brass one that won't break?
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mjUjJv/20160824_183541.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mjUjJv)
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Step1- I found the oil leak. The Y connector behind the starter was broken in the leg that drains in the sump. Where can I get another one of these babies? Can I get a brass one that won't break?
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mjUjJv/20160824_183541.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mjUjJv)
Some autoparts stores? Look for vacuum fittings. Otherwise start with the favorites such as McMaster.
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Back on, aren't those crimped???
I assumed he was talking about the hoses coming off of the valve covers.
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If you're looking for an inexpensive tool to crimp Oetiger clamps, here's one that was recommended to me a few years ago on this forum:
PT (Performance Tool) - W83013
CV JOINT BOOT CLAMP PLIERS (ear type)
Advance Auto
The tool manufacturer address is
P O Box 88259
Tukwila, WA 98138
1-800-497-0552
www.wilmarcorp.com
For clamps ….. these work and I found them locally at NAPA. I used these to replace the fuel pump filter on my 1200 Sport.
SUR and R
3/8” seal clamp
P.N 2982
Bar code: 90453 00275
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Step1- I found the oil leak. The Y connector behind the starter was broken in the leg that drains in the sump. Where can I get another one of these babies? Can I get a brass one that won't break?
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mjUjJv/20160824_183541.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mjUjJv)
T-shaped ones in brass are readily available; a Y-shaped one may take a bit of searching, but is probably available at a specialty hardware store. If you want to try eBay, a search for "Y barb fitting brass" shows a couple dozen choices in different sizes, etc.
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The oil in the airbox is from blow-by. It's there because there is too much oil in the engine. You only need to fill it to about 75-80% full, otherwise it can get 'blown' into the air box. There are little spongy filters to soak up the oil, but they can only do so much.
As for the poor starting. It's the fuel map. You should consider getting the update to the latest factory map, or seek a custom map.
Don't despair, the V7 is a good bike. We can fix it for you. Despite what some say, there are many knowledgeable and helpful peeps on this site.
Beetle, My old map is backed up and the cables are ready to roll! Where can I get one of your fancy custom maps?
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Fancy map dispatched via interwebs.
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After a failed start, turn the kill switch to off, then back on before another start is attempted . Usually works but I don't know why. I was taught that by Ace when I started riding fuel injected, back in '99