Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Hymes Inc. on August 25, 2016, 10:08:12 PM
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So I hear so many people calling the V9 a cruiser, and giving it hate because it's labeled as such. So if a V9 is a cruiser then what is considered a standard? I was under the impression that motorcycles like my old Yamaha xj550 and my Moto Guzzi V65C were standard motorcycles. Other then the more forward foot position, what makes the V9 a cruiser?
Just for visual reference.
(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy254/Hymes_Inc/V9.jpg) (http://s797.photobucket.com/user/Hymes_Inc/media/V9.jpg.html)
(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy254/Hymes_Inc/V65%20SP.jpg) (http://s797.photobucket.com/user/Hymes_Inc/media/V65%20SP.jpg.html)
(http://i797.photobucket.com/albums/yy254/Hymes_Inc/V65%20C.jpg) (http://s797.photobucket.com/user/Hymes_Inc/media/V65%20C.jpg.html)
Sorry the pictures are different sizes, I'm crap with computers.
The V9 looks like a modern version of the V65 SP. The SP was not classified as a cruiser. Move the pegs back and lower the handlebars and it's not far off from the V7. I'm not trying to sell the V9 or make people change their minds, just trying to see where the dislike is coming from. I do like the V9, I don't like it's feet forward setup and if I was ever able to buy one I would have to find a way to move them back. Has the Standard label gone away? Seems that if you're not laying on the tank it's labeled a cruiser. Let the education commence.
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Had the V9 been a standard, I might have bought one. I got a Triumph Street Twin instead. Now that's a great retro standard. If your toes are pointing up, you're on a cruiser. Feet foward is not conducive to good handling, plus you can't stand up on the pegs while crossing rr tracks and such. I think standards are making a comeback of sorts. It's all about the ergos...mid mounts and heads up riding position.
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Cruiser: Torture devices on which middle-aged men spend a gazillion dollars trying to see how much chrome or black they can fit onto one bike and then not ride said bike due to the fact their arse and tailbone can't take it with their feet so far forward. Also, the height of the handlebars is inverse to the size of the man's manhood.
Standard: A real motorcycle :grin:
Oh, and to me, the V9 is a standard all the way. All of this is in good fun btw. Don't get all bent out of shape cruiser owners.
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To me, the V9 is on the edge of a cruiser and a standard. The footpegs are a bit too far forward, and the seat just a bit low, leaving the seating position just a little bit to far down/back and the legs too far out to be a pure standard. A good measure is to look at where the pegs are compared to the starter just above. The lowered seating position combines with this to put your weight on your tailbone, your feet out in front and your hands high compared to your shoulder position.
The Cali, both old and new, is a more clear example, as are many other classic Guzzis.
I like having my ankle almost straight below my hip, with my weight mostly on my pelvis, so my definition of a cruiser is anything that puts weight on my tailbone and spine :wink:
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According to Buddy's own characterization the V9 is NOT a cruiser and I agree. I.e. your toes are not pointed up.
That's my personal definition.
To ME a cruiser prioritizes form over function in multiple categories like suspension travel/ride height/ground clearance, seat comfort, fuel capacity, instruments, etc. Because of the form over function choices is limited in performance and comfort and has most/all of the following characteristics:
* Laid back seating position. True forward controls (positioned at very front of the frame so your legs are basically straight and your toes are pointed upward. This means you're not sitting straight and down, but actually leaning back in most cases. Straight up and down, feet in front of you and still basically below your knees like a chair is a standard to me.
* Minimal seat, often no passenger accommodations over even less suitable passenger seat.
* Extreme low seat height, often the ability to walk over it from the back and just sit down. This seat height is usually the result of compromised cornering and suspension quality.
* Exaggerated tire sizes - often tall and skinny up front, fat and wide in the rear.
* Minimal instrumentation - not only one pod, but few functions.
* Minimal fuel capacity often in a highly stylized fuel tank.
A "Cruiser" to me is characterized by the Chopper, is meant for nothing but short runs up and down the boulevard. It's meant to look good to the fans of the type before it is meant to give any creature comfort or capability.
Now I recognize that most of my definition is subjective, and the person who rides sport bikes would be tempted to throw the V9, Cali (Tonti and 1400) and basically every Harley produced all in the Cruiser category.
And if the world is full of nothing but cruisers and sport bikes they're right.
But I see more subtle differences.
The huge difference in comfort and function between a Cali or Harley FLH (touring model) and a Softail, Wide-Glide, or even many modern Sportsters (that are lowered with forward controls) are the differences that I'm talking about.
A Goldwing, FLH, Cali are comfortable bikes capable of decent performance (all seen at that Street Skills track day i posted about recently). I can stand on the pegs/floorboards of all of them. They have decent ranges, they have more than enough clearance for street riding and out pace most rider's abilities even if they are more limited than the extreme bikes we call sports today.
The same is said for my mid-mount equipped Sportster.
To me those are all STANDARDS, the V9 included.
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Better thread title maybe??? "You might be a cruiser if..."
-You have a cup holder on your handlebar
-You are often seen rolling down the highway with a bandana rider in leather vest
-You are certainly a cruiser if you are often seen rolling down the highway with a bandana rider in leather vest and pillion wearing EXACTLY the same thing
-You have more chrome than a classic American automobile
...others?
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I've ridden the V9 Roamer. The pegs are NOT "forward" by most standards. More forward than rearsets, of course. Just a few inches more than the V7 - yes. Take a look at the picture. Not even close to the forward peg position of the Scout or Sportster.
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I've ridden the V9 Roamer. The pegs are NOT "forward" by most standards. More forward than rearsets, of course. Just a few inches more than the V7 - yes. Take a look at the picture. Not even close to the forward peg position of the Scout or Sportster.
Remember the Sportster comes in 2 configurations.
1. The ONE you HAVE IN YOUR GARAGE RIGHT NOW has the Forward Controls.
2. The OTHER ONE that I HAVE IN MY GARAGE RIGHT NOW has the mid-mounts.
The Mid-Mounts are no different from the pegs on a Jackal, which I suspect are pretty similar to the peg position on a V9.
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Remember the Sportster comes in 2 configurations.
1. The ONE you HAVE IN YOUR GARAGE RIGHT NOW has the Forward Controls.
2. The OTHER ONE that I HAVE IN MY GARAGE RIGHT NOW has the mid-mounts.
The Mid-Mounts are no different from the pegs on a Jackal, which I suspect are pretty similar to the peg position on a V9.
Just for the record the one in my garage is not mine, and is a temporary storage thing. Good point, it's a MUCH different machine than yours. Havn't ridden it yet, so that tells you something.
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Just for the record the one in my garage is not mine, and is a temporary storage thing.
YEAH, you keep telling people that... But I've seen no evidence. :police: :evil:
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The V9 looks like a modern version of the V65 SP. The SP was not classified as a cruiser.
The picture you are calling a V65SP is not an SP at all. It's a V65C. (Cruiser)
My definition of cruiser is if my feet are in front of me, rather than properly under or behind. :evil: The V9 is definitely a cruiser with the handling issues caused by the type. (Feet forward, high bars.)
Some people like em. <shrug>
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Guzzi said in their intro package the v9 is based directly on the v7 nevada smallblock
Nevada has the lower seat height, 16 inch wheel fatter rear, 18 skinny front, but the rear is so fat it almost comes to the diameter of the front...I'm using a v7 Nevada to overcome health issues and get on the road for an hour or two. Very easy to maneuver, just a tad twitchy out front compared to a 70-80s tonti, more of a 50-75 mph bike instead of a 65-90mph...but with the new v9 motor should be comparable to the grunt of the 80s tontis...seating position more on the tailbone then the butt/legs
I'm hoping they take the v9 motor and put it into a standard, dual sport, and stornello over the next few years...v9 is euro 4 (?) compliant, v7's aren't?
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To me, the V9 straddles the dividing line between cruisers and standards. Maybe just a little to the cruiser side of things, but still actually somewhere in the middle. The pegs are a perfect example. As I said in another post, I found the pegs to be very oddly and uncomfortably positioned - too far forward for a standard, but not far enough forward for the feet-forward cruiser riding position. The forwardish pegs, the low seat, the smallish tank, and the speedo tilt it toward the cruiser end of the spectrum even if it isn't all the way there.
My personal opinion is that the seat necessitated the odd peg placement. With the low seat height, moving the pegs back to a more "standard" position would have resulted in a really cramped leg position. I would have liked the thing a lot lot more with a slightly higher seat and with the pegs a few inches further back. But even then, I would still think it was somewhere between a cruiser and a standard.
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The V9 is definitely a cruiser with the handling issues caused by the type. (Feet forward, high bars.)
What handling issues are you talking about?
You don't get a defacto handling issue (not for anything remotely street riding) just because your feet aren't behind you or the handlebars aren't clip ons.
Trust me when I say this instructor had no problem outriding everyone on a Guzzi that day:
http://572creations.zenfolio.com/p944128457/e799ca53b
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I'm sure he did, but as you and I have noted, a really good rider can do amazing things with pedestrian equipment. Most of us are not "that good", so some like to take advantage of the added ease a standard or sport gives you when riding twists and such.
I think your off on your direct comparison of the peg position of the v9 to Jackal. I had a Bassa, which I had the same peg set up, and those pegs were not as far forward as the v9. The Bassa/Jackal has the pegs so the knee is bent just about 90 degrees, the v9s are at least a couple inches, maybe three more forward. Enough so that is feels quite a bit different.
I liked the Roamer, but my knees wanted to start to splay when I relaxed my thighs, I didn't like that.
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Had a 20 something refer to the beater /5 as a cruiser ???? Previous owner of the Jackal calls it a sport cruiser . Dunno , maybe I should buy a full face that mimics a doo rag and start drinking PBR .
Dusty
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Had a 20 something refer to the beater /5 as a cruiser ???? Previous owner of the Jackal calls it a sport cruiser . Dunno , maybe I should buy a full face that mimics a doo rag and start drinking PBR .
Dusty
You might be a hipster if...you're wearing a full face that mimics a doo rag and drinking PBR
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A cruiser isn't a machine. It is a guy who wears his motorcycle as butt jewelry.
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You might be a hipster if...you're wearing a full face that mimics a doo rag and drinking PBR
Hipster .
Well shoot , was kinda hoping no one would expose ... wait , Bipper , don't you own some skinny jeans ? :laugh:
Dusty
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I think they call it a cruiser because of the bikes it is designed to compete with. Namely, Sportster, or bikes that copy Sportster. Yes, some Sportys have mid mounts. But, at least around here, the vast majority of them are the Custom model, with forward controls. You know. Cruisers. Maybe they need to call it a cruiser in an attempt to gain new customers.
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A cruiser isn't a machine. It is a guy who wears his motorcycle as butt jewelry.
:1:
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Hipster .
Well shoot , was kinda hoping no one would expose ... wait , Bipper , don't you own some skinny jeans ? :laugh:
Dusty
Not as skinny as they used to be :sad:
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I'm sure he did, but as you and I have noted, a really good rider can do amazing things with pedestrian equipment. Most of us are not "that good", so some like to take advantage of the added ease a standard or sport gives you when riding twists and such.
I think your off on your direct comparison of the peg position of the v9 to Jackal. I had a Bassa, which I had the same peg set up, and those pegs were not as far forward as the v9. The Bassa/Jackal has the pegs so the knee is bent just about 90 degrees, the v9s are at least a couple inches, maybe three more forward. Enough so that is feels quite a bit different.
I liked the Roamer, but my knees wanted to start to splay when I relaxed my thighs, I didn't like that.
The point is and remains how much more capable the average MACHINE is than the average rider. The Sport Tourer or Sport Bike doesn't make the rider any better. And unless the machine is ridiculously lowered (see my cruiser definition) then the average rider isn't going to scrape anything on a Goldwing, RK, Sportster, V9, Jackal etc.
I can't say for sure on the Jackal vs. V9 peg position yet until I actually get to sit on one, but judging from the pictures, peg placement with regards to seat etc., it sure looks pretty damn close, which puts it in my Sportster territory. Maybe that feels weird to some used to rearsets the first time (just like rearsets feel weird to me) but it's hardly a big change.
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I think they call it a cruiser because of the bikes it is designed to compete with. Namely, Sportster, or bikes that copy Sportster. Yes, some Sportys have mid mounts. But, at least around here, the vast majority of them are the Custom model, with forward controls. You know. Cruisers. Maybe they need to call it a cruiser in an attempt to gain new customers.
And all my life, I thought Sportsters were the original American Standard Motorcycle.
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People call anything a cruiser if they think it's not sporty enough for them. Nothing else matters. Some called the Griso a cruiser when it came out!
The market now has only two types in the minds of the masses. Sport bikes and cruisers. You just put any given model on a scale that has each type at either end, and make up your own mind where to draw the line separating them.
CRUISER ------------------------------<YOUR BIKE HERE>-----------------------------SPORTBIKE
Why worry about it?
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And all my life, I thought Sportsters were the original American Standard Motorcycle.
They were, and some still are, but in Shorty's defense, a lot of them have morphed into cruisers - the 1200C variants are mostly that, and 48, and maybe even the short lived 1200V are arguably cruisers too...
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People call anything a cruiser if they think it's not sporty enough for them. Nothing else matters. Some called the Griso a cruiser when it came out!
The market now has only two types in the minds of the masses. Sport bikes and cruisers. You just put any given model on a scale that has each type at either end, and make up your own mind where to draw the line separating them.
CRUISER ------------------------------<YOUR BIKE HERE>-----------------------------SPORTBIKE
Why worry about it?
That's a REALLY good point and I'm probably doing it too...
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The V9 Roamer is NOT a cruiser...IMHO. This...on the other hand...is an 871 pound cruiser! :thumb: :1: :cool:
Moby Dick - aka, The Great White Whale! (lol) :grin: :laugh:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/e5oGWF/IMG_0239.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e5oGWF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cQG3BF/moby_DICK.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cQG3BF)
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The V9 Roamer is NOT a cruiser...IMHO. This...on the other hand...is an 871 pound cruiser! :thumb: :1: :cool:
Moby Dick - aka, The Great White Whale! (lol) :grin: :laugh:
That's not a cruiser - it's a Minnesota pleasure yacht!
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The V9 Roamer is NOT a cruiser...IMHO. This...on the other hand...is an 871 pound cruiser! :thumb: :1: :cool:
Moby Dick - aka, The Great White Whale! (lol) :grin: :laugh:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/e5oGWF/IMG_0239.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e5oGWF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cQG3BF/moby_DICK.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cQG3BF)
How do ya like the way that whale handles?
I love messing with sport bikes on my '13 Cross Country Tour!
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What handling issues are you talking about?
You don't get a defacto handling issue (not for anything remotely street riding) just because your feet aren't behind you or the handlebars aren't clip ons.
Trust me when I say this instructor had no problem outriding everyone on a Guzzi that day:
http://572creations.zenfolio.com/p944128457/e799ca53b
Yeah, you do. The farther your hands are from the forks, the less feed back the front end gives you.
When you sit on the roamer, your feet are in front, and your hands are high. That makes it impossible to get weight forward, needed for "good" handling. You sit back far enough that your knees can't grip the tank. I can get my calves on the throttle body covers, but that's about it.
So. You are sitting back with little feed back from the front end, and can't get proper weight distribution. I call that handling issues. <shrug>
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Yeah, you do. The farther your hands are from the forks, the less feed back the front end gives you.
When you sit on the roamer, your feet are in front, and your hands are high. That makes it impossible to get weight forward, needed for "good" handling. You sit back far enough that your knees can't grip the tank. I can get my calves on the throttle body covers, but that's about it.
So. You are sitting back with little feed back from the front end, and can't get proper weight distribution. I call that handling issues. <shrug>
You didn't bother looking at the photo then.
My point was that didn't have to limit the bike's handling for any remotely real world riding.
Now the fact the YOU don't like it, that's fine, but it's not an actual problem with what the bike can or cannot do.
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Ten years riding a big heavy cruiser, oh my aching back. :thewife:
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A 'Cruiser' is the fantasy of people who don't want to own a motorbike of what a motorbike actually is.
YOMV. IGNAS.
Pete
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To your question kind of like a herley although possibly more so if lacking the HD badge.
but what do we think a Guzzi is?
I'd probably be even less successful I answering that, for what it's worth i think Luigi needs a check list:
something thike this:
Motorcycle blue print:
Fuel tank: big enough for 200 mile range.
final drive: shaft
engine layout: longitudinal obviously (as dictated by shaft drive)
Instrumentation: one dial for speed, one dial for rpm always worked fine.
Seat: Generously padded with room for pillion.
centre stand: at least the option to fit one.
ground clearance: Why does this even need mentioned, it should not be an issue.
Styling: not to detract from function.
luggage: should not be an issue to fit if required.
riding position: neutral�
Maintenance: should be relatively simple.
wheels: conventional sizes please, so there's some choice of rubber.
bits that snap off: no thank you.
bits that might shake off: I've learned to deal with that.
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A 'Cruiser' is the fantasy of people who don't want to own a motorbike of what a motorbike actually is.
YOMV. IGNAS.
Pete
So does that include Calis?
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'Fraid so. The Cali 14 is a great 'Cruiser' but it's not what I consider a motorbike to be.
I tried to like it. I really did. But at the end of the day it was still an evil handling, chromed whore's purse. Expensive mistake. Not one I'm going to make again.
Seems though that as far as Piaggio is concerned Guzzi is going to be condemned to making these things and dross like the V9's. At least with the V9's it looks like there might be something interesting engine-wise in the pipeline.
I don't reckon they'll be able to get the big block compliant without the 7SM and all the extra munt on the 'Cruisers' so any new Stelvio or other similar bike will have to be small block based or a clean sheet design. Where's the money for that going to come from?
Pete
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The problem with cruiser bikes is beginning in the 1990's frames were lowered along with seat height because they look cooler. The trend continues today. Most people that don't know any better think this is the proper riding position when it's not. Highway pegs are required due to lower back/ butt hurt after a spell of riding, foot/ leg position must continually be adjusted to fight the pain. Also, corner control of these monstrosities is painful as they are unwilling to change direction easily with the scrape, scrape noise. :popcorn:
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'Fraid so. The Cali 14 is a great 'Cruiser' but it's not what I consider a motorbike to be.
I tried to like it. I really did. But at the end of the day it was still an evil handling, chromed whore's purse. Expensive mistake. Not one I'm going to make again.
Seems though that as far as Piaggio is concerned Guzzi is going to be condemned to making these things and dross like the V9's. At least with the V9's it looks like there might be something interesting engine-wise in the pipeline.
I don't reckon they'll be able to get the big block compliant without the 7SM and all the extra munt on the 'Cruisers' so any new Stelvio or other similar bike will have to be small block based or a clean sheet design. Where's the money for that going to come from?
Pete
The MG reps told me the Norge/ Stelvio engine can't meet the new Euro 4 emissions?
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The 1400 Eldorado is better than the Cal 1400 Touring and Custom for handling and a non-cruiser. The Griso is a "power cruiser" bike. :grin: :grin: :grin:
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No, the Griso is a motorbike. The Cali's are fashion accessories or two wheeled equivalents of invalid scooters for people who don't want a motorbike or haven't grown up.
(That should get 'em going! :evil:)
Pete
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:grin: :grin: :grin:
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Yeah , but some folks think that riding an over sized scooter from Aprilia is the epitome of motorbiking :evil:
Dusty
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I have to go with the "toes up" definition as to what a cruiser is. While I won't classify my 96 Cali as a sport bike, it sure as heck isn't a "cruiser", just a good handling (albeit overweight) standard. If every motorcycle with pegs that are forward of your hips is considered a cruiser, where does that leave the classic Bonneville? Never, ever heard of them referred to as cruisers!
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Had a 20 something refer to the beater /5 as a cruiser ???? Previous owner of the Jackal calls it a sport cruiser . Dunno , maybe I should buy a full face that mimics a doo rag and start drinking PBR .
Dusty
PBR is the official beverage for SPORTRIDERS!!! .... something you /5 riders obviously wouldn't understand.
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You didn't bother looking at the photo then.
My point was that didn't have to limit the bike's handling for any remotely real world riding.
Now the fact the YOU don't like it, that's fine, but it's not an actual problem with what the bike can or cannot do.
<shrug>
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I have to go with the "toes up" definition as to what a cruiser is. While I won't classify my 96 Cali as a sport bike, it sure as heck isn't a "cruiser", just a good handling (albeit overweight) standard. If every motorcycle with pegs that are forward of your hips is considered a cruiser, where does that leave the classic Bonneville? Never, ever heard of them referred to as cruisers!
They became 'choppers'. :popcorn:
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The picture you are calling a V65SP is not an SP at all. It's a V65C. (Cruiser)
The middle bike is an SP without the fairing. The bottom bike is the V65C
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You didn't bother looking at the photo then.
My point was that didn't have to limit the bike's handling for any remotely real world riding.
Now the fact the YOU don't like it, that's fine, but it's not an actual problem with what the bike can or cannot do.
Ok. I was on the Snake one day, and came upon a Harley something or other. (They all look the same to me.) But it was a big booger with bags, etc. The rider decided he should show me something.. and he did. He was going through the Snake throwing serious sparks from the floorboards on left and rights. His wife/girlfriend/ significant other was beating on his back with both hands. :)
He was a *very* good rider, but totally hampered by the bike he was on. I just don't understand why you think a cruiser will handle perfectly well in "real world" riding. They don't. We'll just have to agree to disagree. :)
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<shrug>
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There are motorcycles that handle and those that don't. Found that out that my Reconstruct Shovelhead doesn't. My Eldo did. This was in the late 70's. I used the Recon for around town and short hauls with friends and the Eldo for serious touring by myself.
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A cruiser is a lazy boy with a big fart trapped in the cushion.
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Forgive a Newbie for butting in, but having just come from the "cruiser" end of the spectrum, I thought I'd put in my .02... I became the proud owner of an '04 Stone about a month ago. Before that I was on an Intruder 1400 with stock footrests and low, wide handlebars - I'd say a fairly representative example of a Japanese cruiser. Now I know the extremes in cruiser ergonomics - waay forward controls, ape hangers and thinly padded solo seats - are totally style over comfort, but I really liked the seating position on the Intruder. My feet were in front of me, shins vertical and with a comfortable reach to the handlebars. The pressure points on the seat were the bones inside my butt (ischium - I just looked it up), not my tailbone. It wasn't like sitting in a Lazy Boy, more like a good boardroom chair, if that make sense.
My first impression on the Stone was surprise at how un-cruiserlike it felt. The higher ground clearance, steeper rake, conservative handlebars, and the skinny (to my eye) back tire all made it feel closer to a Bonneville than a Fat Boy. For me, it finds that perfect middle ground between cruiser and standard. I find the riding position ideal for around town, and I didn't have any major comfort issues on the 3-hour ride home from where I bought the bike. However, at my age (52), the joints are starting to stiffen up a little, and I think the bend the Cali puts in my hips would get pretty uncomfortable after a full day in the saddle. I definitely want to find some highway pegs before I take on any serious road trips.
All in all, superior suspension, brakes and steering geometry make the Guzzi a much easier bike to handle and to ride fast than the old 'Truder, but there's something to be said for sitting back with your legs unfolded from under you, yes, cruising down a long stretch of highway.
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IMO, a cruiser is when your feet are anywhere even with or in front of your knees. A Standard is when feet are under your hips out to your knees, and Sport is when your feet are from under your hips or Behind.
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I tend to classify cruisers in two types: style bar cruisers for in town "posing where you are going for looks and perhaps making a statement. The second type; a touring cruiser that works very well on the big slab and eating up miles. I'd say like Easy Rider but I consider choppers to be the style bike but some riders may prefer them for touring.
Neither bike are for the Snake or scraping bits in the corners. To complain that a cruiser can't corner like your sport bike is kinda like complaining the Miata can't carry your new stove home from Lowes.
Oddly enough I've had folks call my Griso a Cruiser and I just don't see it. Near as I can tell we all have a different idea of what a cruiser is, ask ten guys what a cruise is and you'll get eleven answers. :)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxo7V2HyYS4
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Cruiser - an independant warship designed to protect sea lanes, commerce raiding, and scouting. Only the USN, Peruvian, and the Russian Navy operate them today.
My favourites are the Alaska class. :azn:
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Meh...
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Blah Blah Blah not a real motorbike. Blah Blah Blah can't go around a corner with all that chrome and seating position. I'm going to push my Cali off in a ditch.
(http://i777.photobucket.com/albums/yy52/jackmckown/IMG_5821.jpeg) (http://s777.photobucket.com/user/jackmckown/media/IMG_5821.jpeg.html)
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The March 1998 Cycle World had an article called "Lucky 13" which compared thirteen "Ameri-cruisers," including a Titan Gecko, Harley Dyna Low Rider, Big Dog, Triumph Thunderbird, BMW 1200C, Vulcan 1500, etc. The Guzzi V11 EV won!
Rich A
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The problem with cruiser bikes is beginning in the 1990's frames were lowered along with seat height because they look cooler.
The California II was before the cruiser craze, right? It's a standard, like the T3 etc. You think they lowered the California III because it looks cooler? Do think it entered anyone's thoughts that only a fraction of the adult male population is tall enough to comfortably ride a California II?
As for posture ... I spent some time poring over online photos of motorcycle police, a few days back when the subject was "bolt upright" posture. Several kinds of motorcycles showed up - Harley, BMW, Kawasaki, I wasn't really keeping score, but if the posture was any different, it sure wasn't radically different. If those Harleys weren't cruisers, I don't know what is, but those guys don't ride them with their toes pointing up.
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How do ya like the way that whale handles?
I love messing with sport bikes on my '13 Cross Country Tour!
It handles "exceptionally well" (long wheelbase) for a 871 pound sled. It's hard to convince anyone otherwise unless they own or have ridden one.
I use my Vision mostly for two up riding. If I want to play Mr. Sport Bike, I ride this:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iTaPJv/JJ_Centauro.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iTaPJv)
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Nice picture.. :thumb: and yeah I imagine that the big C could hold it's own against a
871 pound sled.
:smiley:
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Nice picture.. :thumb: and yeah I imagine that the big C could hold it's own against a :smiley:
Hi Chuck! - - and greetings from Vortex Land!
Yes, I have to get all the necessary upgrades (timing gear, oil pump, new belts, Will Creedon chip, etc., etc.) completed within the next month on the ol "Yellow Horse!" :cool:
It's a BLAST to ride...95 HP, and it weighs 300+ pounds LESS than Moby Dick!! :rolleyes: :cool: :thumb: :1:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hb1QQa/V10_1.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hb1QQa)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/ddbs5a/V10_2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ddbs5a)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cOwEJv/V10_3.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cOwEJv)
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"The California II was before the cruiser craze, right? It's a standard, like the T3 etc. You think they lowered the California III because it looks cooler? Do think it entered anyone's thoughts that only a fraction of the adult male population is tall enough to comfortably ride a California II?"
I am 5'8" on a good day, there is nothing tall about my Cal II.
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The California II was before the cruiser craze, right? It's a standard, like the T3 etc. You think they lowered the California III because it looks cooler? Do think it entered anyone's thoughts that only a fraction of the adult male population is tall enough to comfortably ride a California II?
If the Cali (in any version, I, II, III, 1400) has ever caused a fraction greater than 1/8th of the population to have height trouble, then what about the Norge, Breva 1x00, Stelvio, Quota, LeMans, or....? The Cali may have been taller than some cruisers, but it was never in any form as tall as even the most classic of standards such as the Honda CB750 / CB1000, the Brit bike standards, and all the others that definitely fall within that category.
I am 6 feet tall with a 32 inch inseam. By modern standards that's pretty much average, maybe a bit on the tall size for those in my age group (approaching 60). I can flat-foot my Norge even with a seat made 1.5 inches taller. I can easily handle a Stelvio or other adventure touring bike. Cruisers, in general, I find cramped and uncomfortable - as I do many Hondas, including Gold Wings and ST1300s. To me, a cruiser is rather like a NASCAR spec vehicle. I can't see how those guys can drive with their wrists so close to their shoulders - no other form of racing has you chewing the steering wheel!
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If the Cali (in any version, I, II, III, 1400) has ever caused a fraction greater than 1/8th of the population to have height trouble, then what about the Norge, Breva 1x00, Stelvio, Quota, LeMans, or....? The Cali may have been taller than some cruisers, but it was never in any form as tall as even the most classic of standards such as the Honda CB750 / CB1000, the Brit bike standards, and all the others that definitely fall within that category.
I am 6 feet tall with a 32 inch inseam. By modern standards that's pretty much average, maybe a bit on the tall size for those in my age group (approaching 60). I can flat-foot my Norge even with a seat made 1.5 inches taller. I can easily handle a Stelvio or other adventure touring bike. Cruisers, in general, I find cramped and uncomfortable - as I do many Hondas, including Gold Wings and ST1300s. To me, a cruiser is rather like a NASCAR spec vehicle. I can't see how those guys can drive with their wrists so close to their shoulders - no other form of racing has you chewing the steering wheel!
Jane you ignorant slut.... damn I miss classic SNL.
So here's my counter point.
It's not just about saddle height, it's also about saddle WIDTH.
I'm 5' 10" with about a 32" inseam, I'm also young enough and in shape enough that I've never found a bike i had a problem fitting. Actually I kinda feel like I'm textbook average for most cycle ergos.
But I know riders who range from 4'10" to 6' 6" and they all obviously fit bikes differently from me as they approach those extremes.
Ergonomic needs vary greatly, and even a given machine can be made to fit a lot of different needs. But people will still have their own preferences which is cool.
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There is too much bigotry among motorcyclist. I realize much of it here is just in good fun, and most of us could care less what another finds full filling, as long as it still fall under a certain umbrella, that's mostly well adjusted humanity.
It seems clear, there is no accepted definition for terms we use, but don't agree on.
What as weird species we are.
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There is too much bigotry among motorcyclist. I realize much of it here is just in good fun, and most of us could care less what another finds full filling, as long as it still fall under a certain umbrella, that's mostly well adjusted humanity.
It seems clear, there is no accepted definition for terms we use, but don't agree on.
What as weird species we are.
Yup, we're tribal in nature, even those who claim to be coyotes (lone dogs) who seek out other coyotes.
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They are called HOGS for a reason. :evil:
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There is too much bigotry among motorcyclist. I realize much of it here is just in good fun, and most of us could care less what another finds full filling, as long as it still fall under a certain umbrella, that's mostly well adjusted humanity.
It seems clear, there is no accepted definition for terms we use, but don't agree on.
What as weird species we are.
Freud had something to say about just this sort of thing, I understand, calling it the narcissism of small differences. Check out the Wikipedia article on the topic, which says
[the narcissism of small differences] is the phenomenon that it is precisely communities with adjoining territories, and that are related to each other in other ways as well, who are engaged in constant feuds and are ridiculing each other because of sensitiveness to these details of differentiation.
And this:
In terms of postmodernity, consumer culture has been seen as predicated on the narcissism of small differences to achieve a superficial sense of one's own uniqueness, an ersatz sense of otherness which is only a mask for an underlying uniformity and sameness.[6]
Nothing better expresses the foundation of Harley hating and cruiser mocking (or the reverse sentiments) than this, I think.
Moto
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If its massively over weight, with little power, bugger all ground clearance, uselessly short suspension travel and crap brakes preferably all four, where significant compromises have been made to get a look at all costs and the proportions slope towards the rear of the bike, you have a cruiser. The motorcycle industries answer to not wanting to actually engineer something.
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If its massively over weight, with little power, bugger all ground clearance, uselessly short suspension travel and crap brakes preferably all four, where significant compromises have been made to get a look at all costs and the proportions slope towards the rear of the bike, you have a cruiser. The motorcycle industries answer to not having to actually engineer something.
Fixed it for ya.
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This is all funny. A lot like the discussions over what a "sport touring' bike should be. A sporty touring bike or a touring sport bike.
"........but there's something to be said for sitting back with your legs unfolded from under you, yes, cruising down a long stretch of highway."
This is exactly what makes my back hurt in 10 minutes or less. My feet have to be under me or even behind me and then I can go all day on the bike. I hate highway pegs and floorboards.
Everyone has different seating positions that work for them. Don't care if you call a bike a cruiser, sport, touring, standard, etc. I am disappointed that Guzzi has chosen to go the "cruiser" route but if the sales increase then who am I to complain. I won't buy one anyway.
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My basic definition of a standard is comparable to dirt bike ergos. All others go from that base line.
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My 2c: If you can stand on the footpegs to absorb terrain, it's a standard. If the pegs are too far forward for that, it's a cruiser.
On the Guzzi and the F650 the pegs are almost directly under my butt. On the TR6R they're just forward of the saddle nose, which means under my knees. The Scrambler version of the Triumph has the pegs in exactly the same place, but obviously you can get up and forward over the pegs in the dirt. I don't want the pegs further forward than that.
Looks like the V9 peg position is similar to the TR6. I'll allow it's a standard.
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The V9 Roamer is NOT a cruiser...IMHO. This...on the other hand...is an 871 pound cruiser! :thumb: :1: :cool:
Moby Dick - aka, The Great White Whale! (lol) :grin: :laugh:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/e5oGWF/IMG_0239.jpg) (http://ibb.co/e5oGWF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cQG3BF/moby_DICK.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cQG3BF)
AGREED.
If you look at the controls they're not forward . They're under . Technically a Standard being marketed as a cruiser .
The bobber one is growing on me .
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I'm not too sure the average joe could stand up on the Roamer pegs? Has anyone tried?
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AGREED.
If you look at the controls they're not forward . They're under . Technically a Standard being marketed as a cruiser .
The bobber one is growing on me .
I know how you ride, Rox.. :copcar: Ride it first, you may change your mind.
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This is all funny. A lot like the discussions over what a "sport touring' bike should be. A sporty touring bike or a touring sport bike.
SPORT <--------Concours, FJR-----------RT, Norge----------------ST1300-----------> TOURING
ADVENTURE <----------KLR, DR/DRZ--------GS, Stelvio-----------V-Strom-----------------> TOURING
CRUISER <--------Fat Boy, Customs------Various HD, Vulcan, Star models------V9, some Japanese models-------CB and other replibikes, some Triumphs, etc -----> STANDARD
It's all a matter of degree...
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The CB is your classic standard and frankly I'd like to see more standards to choose from in the market. They are such a classical swiss army knife of motorcycling.
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My basic definition of a standard is comparable to dirt bike ergos. All others go from that base line.
I was about to agree with this and comment that, probably like a lot of people here, I started out on small dirt bikes and that kind of determined my definition of the standard riding position. My first street-only bike was a '72 Honda CB350 - about as "standard" as you can get. But when I think about it, it goes even further back. Standard is really what used to be a normal bicycle riding position. Oh, there were "English racers", and then they came out with the "Sting Ray" bicycles with banana seats and high bars, but the regular old bicycle was still the standard. I guess, more or less, it still is. Feet below my hips and handlebars that are neither high nor low. When my feet get much forward of that position, it's a cruiser to me. There are other styling characteristics that I associate with cruisers, but as I've thought about it and read what other people have said in this thread, I've realized that for me, it's mostly foot position that makes the difference.