Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Arizona Wayne on August 27, 2016, 11:22:20 PM
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.............going sky high all of a sudden? When you have done nothing wrong and suddenly 18% is the new low rate? :huh: Glad I don't owe any $ for stuff I have already bought. This reminds me of the 80s when 18% interest was the norm for credit(Jimmy Carter). :evil:
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usury, at least it used to be.
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usury, at least it used to be.
This time I think it has to do with printing too many dollar bills with nothing to back them up.
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Oklahoma allows 21.99% , in fact HD finances bikes in OK at that rate for some customers .
Dusty
No wonder HD is so profitable. :violent1:
We don't sell MCs, we sell a lifestyle.......... ...........yea, baby, an expensive lifestyle only an idiot can appreciate. :grin: "There's a sucker born every minute."
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Certainly part of it . Not everyone gets charged that rate . My nephew the HD salesman clued me in on this . Haven't had a CC in years , a friend says his goal is to run up a million dollars in CC debt before he passes , leave the bastages holding the bag :evil:
Dusty
He could do like an ex neighbor I had who went into bankruptcy. Wait a few years and go into bankruptcy again!! :boozing: Some people never learn.............. like drunk drivers
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My take on credit:
I decided when I got my very own credit card (wasn't till this century when e-commerce happened) that I would treat it like cash. Up until then I used cash, up front, pay-as-I-go. It works good. Self limiting and real. I just bought a truck with a stack of unhappy-looking Benjamins, handed to a happy-looking guy not named Benjamin. We shook hands. That felt real. More secure than a credit card transaction, too.
When I can no longer pay my balance at the end of the month I'll stop using the credit card -- just like I stop using cash when it runs out. With the credit card (and an ungodly credit line :shocked: I have the option of spending money I don't have if I'm in a bind (or buying a Goldwing -- the more you pay your bill the more they dare you to charge more with a higher spend limit), but I haven't ever carried a balance to the next month except that time I spaced out and forgot to pay it. I generally round the payment up to the next hundred just to make my math easier, and because I'll owe it in a month anyway. No interest, no late fees. Just their yearly fee. And they guarantee my purchases and give me airline miles. I don't owe anything anywhere except maybe the current cable modem bill. I must be banking's worst nightmare.
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Usury is a crime in most states. The credit card companies have an office in a state that has no usury law and so call it their headquarters. That way they can charge what ever they want anywhere in the country.
It's how bussiness is done these days thanks to lawyers and rental politicians.
It is also whyy I cut up all my cards 25 years ago.
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No I havn't mind you I don't have a credit card, I finally broke down and got a master debit card in the last few years for e-commerce. Without getting too political Govts will happily stand in front of a TV camera and claim their management has resulted in low interest rates. They will disown high interest rates as market forces reality says very low interest rates are the signs of a struggling economy, very high interest rates are the sign of an overheated economy this is generally set by market forces, govts have very little influence on this.
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I was a cash payer too until recently, figuring if I couldn't afford it, I probably didn't need it, but there are some benefits to CCs. Probably the biggest plus is that they're much safer than a debit card. If your credit card gets stolen, they're spending the banks money. If your debit card gets stolen the money comes right out of your account, which I've had happen a few times, and you're at the mercy of your banks policy as to how fast you'll get your money back.
The second is the cash back. I probably make $600-800 a year using my CCs for cashback, which isn't a huge amount, but it's basically free money over swiping a debit card or paying with cash/check. I can thankfully afford to pay my bills every month since my needs are modest, so I won't get hit with interest charges.
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I was a cash payer too until recently, figuring if I couldn't afford it, I probably didn't need it, but there are some benefits to CCs. Probably the biggest plus is that they're much safer than a debit card. If your credit card gets stolen, they're spending the banks money. If your debit card gets stolen the money comes right out of your account, which I've had happen a few times, and you're at the mercy of your banks policy as to how fast you'll get your money back.
The second is the cash back. I probably make $600-800 a year using my CCs for cashback, which isn't a huge amount, but it's basically free money over swiping a debit card or paying with cash/check. I can thankfully afford to pay my bills every month since my needs are modest, so I won't get hit with interest charges.
This.
We make more money from cash back on credit cards than CDs. :smiley:
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Use them as needed or convenient then pay off in full each month. When we took over my Mom's finances she had a Bank of America card. We contacted them by phone requesting cancellation, sent them a fax with the cancellation request along with copies of the conservator papers. What did they do? They add me and my wife to the card instead. I was not as nice the second time around but they did close the account.
GliderJohn
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The big rule with credit cards-NEVER run a balance. If you pay 18% on your card, do whatever you have to to dump that debt.
Money is a commodity, and there is a cost to it. Find a better price, dumopthe expensive card debt, and never sin again.
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I used to pay cash for everything now I rarely carry cash for reason like Chuck in Indiana stated. I also in 24-1/2 years of having a CC have only once carried a balance for only one month while I was in the middle of switching CC companies. I have gotten several $500 cash back checks during this time and have only paid about $3 in total interest. I have never cared if CC interest rated were 0%, 100% or somewhere in between because I pay the bill in full every month.Only buy what I can afford to payoff every month and a CC is an asset not a burden.
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Image the money people waste on iPhones. :evil:
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This time I think it has to do with printing too many dollar bills with nothing to back them up.
That's voodoo economics.
I haven't paid a cent of credit card interest in several decades. It's the absolute worst way to borrow money, even worse than going to Vinny down at the bar. On the other hand, I net about $1000 in rewards every year, because I charge everything I possibly can to my cash back cards, even my insurance premiums. I make the credit card companies work for me. You can, too.
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That's voodoo economics.
I haven't paid a cent of credit card interest in several decades. It's the absolute worst way to borrow money, even worse than going to Vinny down at the bar. On the other hand, I net about $1000 in rewards every year, because I charge everything I possibly can to my cash back cards, even my insurance premiums. I make the credit card companies work for me. You can, too.
yet how much do you blow on that iPhone per year? $1,200. :evil:
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Usury is legal in Va. The government has been in the pockets of bankers since the end of the civil war.
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In my opinion, which usually kills threads, the government has enormous influence on interest rates. However it is mostly on rates we can earn, not pay, especially when it comes to credit cards.
Banks have successfully lobbied the government to severely limit the ability of serial bankruptcies due to credit card misuse. I don't believe the average consumer can do that any more. The issuers favorite kind of client is a client that carries a balance, but pays some amount regularly, in other words, the financially fragile yet honest. They are bombarded with offers for new cards from a variety of banks. The banks woo the vulnerable rather than the sophisticated. The sophisticated can apply for lines of credit or home interest loans. Those are scrutinized a little more closely now than they were a few years ago, and I'll bet a majority of us on this forum would qualify. But would you take one to buy a mint T-3? It's tempting at 2.9% for the first year. Almost free money, for a while.
In our house, we are like Rodekyll, we use credit cards, but don't carry balances.
The most visible battle for the money industry to protect their ability to charge usurious rates is the payday loan industry. Those at the bottom of the pecking order, the most vulnerable and least sophisticated, are the most likely to have to do business with them ( I'll bet that not many on this forum have a cash store at their bus stop). And the providers can pretty much do what they want with a minimum of effective government interference.
Phones are another type of industry that camouflages your losses with their "plans." When I am in Europe, I have an unlocked phone, a sim to stick in my phone, buy some minutes and data (more when I run out (it takes a very long time of inactivity for unused minutes to expire), and know exactly what I pay for, interest free. To my knowledge, such plans do not exist here in that very simple form.
But, of course, none of this is illegal. So it is buyer beware, it is a jungle out there.
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I operated without a card until I started traveling for business
Try getting a rental car or booking a hotel or a flight in a foreign country without one.
It's also not possible to pay off your balance from overseas, i just put in an expense report ASAP and pay it straight off Visa.
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What is a credit card? I do have a debit/credit card with Chase. 36.?? something rate. I have never used it. Unbelievable that a bank can make such excessive profits. Paying less than 1/2% interest on their capital and then selling at 72 times cost? What other business can get away with this? The overhead on the capital is very small. Not like manufacturing or retail.
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yet how much do you blow on that iPhone per year? $1,200. :evil:
Well, I just bought a new iPhone SE 64GB for $533.93, at my local Apple Store, including sales tax, unlocked and with no contract. However, I paid for it with a new Chase Freedom Visa credit card that offered $150 cash back if I spend $500 within 3 months, plus $25 more if I get another person on the account (my wife), plus 1.5% cash back on all purchases. So, I paid a net of $533.95 - $150 -$75 - 0.015 x $533.93 = $350.92. I don't plan to use this card again since I have another card that gives back 2% on all purchases (it's a no-fee card, as are all of my cards). Moreover, I sold my old iPhone 5 on Craigslist for $175, so the new phone only cost me $350.92 - $175 = $175.92. I consider that to be a good deal.
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never notice the interest rate, I pay the balance when due
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No interest, no late fees. Just their yearly fee.
It seems like you need to find a card that doesn't have a yearly fee. I don't pay any.
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The CC companies have a name for those of us who pay their balances in full every month. They call us "deadbeats".
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This time I think it has to do with printing too many dollar bills with nothing to back them up.
Hardly the case. Govt treasuries are < 1%.
The banks are getting away with it because the debtors are trapped and usury laws were gutted 30 years ago. it's no more than treasuries having a bearing on your local loan shark.
(The topic was brought up and it's been answered. Academic, not political answer.)
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About those cash back cards , someone is taking a beating , no such thing as free money .
Dusty
I've been using 1% back Discover card for 25 years (since it was part of Sears). I only use cash when forced to.
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The CC companies have a name for those of us who pay their balances in full every month. They call us "deadbeats".
My wife's credit score is perfect and mine is 2 pts under her's. I guess they know she pays all the bills and I just ask "what?"
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I operated without a card until I started traveling for business
Try getting a rental car or booking a hotel or a flight in a foreign country without one.
It's also not possible to pay off your balance from overseas, i just put in an expense report ASAP and pay it straight off Visa.
Really?
The only 'Credit' card we have is an AMEX which is a charge card so we have to pay it off every month or they get crappy. We just look up the balance in line and pay it off though our banking app. Nothing could be simpler.
As for other cards? We have Visa debit cards linked directly to our current account. They work pretty much everywhere apart from some odd places in the US! :laugh: this trip we're also using a pre-loaded cash card that is issued through MasterCard. We loaded it up with Sterling after Brexit. That was a good move.
Really though, credit card charges are usurious. Luckily we haven't used credit apart from for a mortgage since the early nineties. What scares me is kids who are in hock to cards up to their eyeballs and people our age who seem determined to leave their children nothing but debt!
Pete
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I use cash for day to day expenses. Use a credit card for traveling. I pay it off every month.
I borrowed money for a vehicle way back in 1995. Borrowed money for my house in 1994. Casual debt is a sure way to stay poor.
People in the U.S. like to complain about how poor they are, but most of us have much, much more than our grandparents. Multiple tvs, much larger homes (tho smaller yards) more vehicles than adults per home, computers, cell phones, and lots of debt because of the desire for instant gratification.
Whew!
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskimo Spy
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Testify Bill :laugh:
Dusty
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I've been using a line of credit, max amount 5k. Rates have been historically low for quite a few years now. My Monthly payment is $50 on about 3k.
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...most of us have much, much more than our grandparents. (snip)...more vehicles than adults per home...
Whew!
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskimo Spy
Hey - if those extra vehicles are motorcycles, what's the problem! :grin:
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Ok, you guy's made me feel guilty, just paid off my VISA. :evil:
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I've been using a line of credit, max amount 5k. Rates have been historically low for quite a few years now. My Monthly payment is $50 on about 3k.
That works out to 20 percent per year!
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That works out to 20 percent per year!
No, 3.49%. Anyhoo at my age it's time to start the Snowball to Hell. :evil:
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Hardly the case. Govt treasuries are < 1%.
The banks are getting away with it because the debtors are trapped and usury laws were gutted 30 years ago. it's no more than treasuries having a bearing on your local loan shark.
(The topic was brought up and it's been answered. Academic, not political answer.)
I see. so that's why the USA is approaching 20 Trillion $ in debt right now. I guess according to you it's no biggee, right?
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Hey - if those extra vehicles are motorcycles, what's the problem! :grin:
It is not a problem as long as you realize how wealthy you are.
Perspective.
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I use cash for day to day expenses. Use a credit card for traveling. I pay it off every month.
I borrowed money for a vehicle way back in 1995. Borrowed money for my house in 1994. Casual debt is a sure way to stay poor.
People in the U.S. like to complain about how poor they are, but most of us have much, much more than our grandparents. Multiple tvs, much larger homes (tho smaller yards) more vehicles than adults per home, computers, cell phones, and lots of debt because of the desire for instant gratification.
Whew!
I use CCs for every day transactions and cash for little, paying off all when they come due. Only time I carry extra cash is for a trip in case I need it for meals or such. Everything we own is paid for(took a long time to get here) and it feels good. :thumb: But I'm an old fart too.
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I see. so that's why the USA is approaching 20 Trillion $ in debt right now. I guess according to you it's no biggee, right?
apples and oranges.
My response was to your statement where you made an inference about govt debt linked to high credit card interest rates and I gave you a fact that made your claim totally bogus.
I didn't make any argument whether the debt was a problem or not. I prefaced that by not going there as I said that it wasn't a political answer. I know that you begged the question and were looking for a political fight. I was only pointing out a simple fact that proved you 100% wrong.
Cheers.
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No, 3.49%. Anyhoo at my age it's time to start the Snowball to Hell. :evil:
Huh? 50/3000=0.0167 That's 1.67% per month. Pay that 12 times per year and you paid 20% on the money that year.
Edit: Maybe I misunderstood, and most of that $50 goes toward paying down the debt. I thought you meant you paid $50/month interest on the $3,000.
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About those cash back cards , someone is taking a beating , no such thing as free money .
Dusty
But if your going to spend money on something anyway you might as well get a 1 to 3% discount. I have yet to get a check in the mail for spending cash.
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But if your going to spend money on something anyway you might as well get a 1 to 3% discount. I have yet to get a check in the mail for spending cash.
1 to 3% of what ? I am really curious about what is actually happening here .
Dusty
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What is a credit card? I do have a debit/credit card with Chase. 36.?? something rate. I have never used it. Unbelievable that a bank can make such excessive profits. Paying less than 1/2% interest on their capital and then selling at 72 times cost? What other business can get away with this?
No one is "making" anyone take on a credit card. Per the rules today, the banks can't "hide" the annual interest rate, so if it's 36%, you can see that right on the front of the application.
Someone who wants to buy things that he has no money for won't care if the interest rate is 1000% a year - very many of them won't pay the balance they owe anyway, will either die or go bankrupt first (see several posts). It's like a 4-year-old - promise them a piece of candy RIGHT NOW or they can have a gallon of ice cream EVERY DAY THIS WEEK, they'll take whatever you're offering NOW and bugger tomorrow.
I have one credit and one debit card. I pay them off every day on-line, always have. Some things you just can't use cash for.
In 12 years, I've had my credit card scammed for $1100 and my debit card for $2500. Each time, one visit to the bank and my money was magically back, and the merchant who took the card number for a purchase was "out" the money, not me .... Well worth the convenience of thousands of transactions ....
Lannis
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No one is "making" anyone take on a credit card. Per the rules today, the banks can't "hide" the annual interest rate, so if it's 36%, you can see that right on the front of the application.
Someone who wants to buy things that he has no money for won't care if the interest rate is 1000% a year - very many of them won't pay the balance they owe anyway, will either die or go bankrupt first (see several posts). It's like a 4-year-old - promise them a piece of candy RIGHT NOW or they can have a gallon of ice cream EVERY DAY THIS WEEK, they'll take whatever you're offering NOW and bugger tomorrow.
I have one credit and one debit card. I pay them off every day on-line, always have. Some things you just can't use cash for.
In 12 years, I've had my credit card scammed for $1100 and my debit card for $2500. Each time, one visit to the bank and my money was magically back, and the merchant who took the card number for a purchase was "out" the money, not me .... Well worth the convenience of thousands of transactions ....
Lannis
At my age the last thing I'm worried about is debt, time to increase it as much as possible! :evil:
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1 to 3% of what ? I am really curious about what is actually happening here .
Dusty
I need to by a widget. I find said widget on widget.com and it cost $100. If I use cash it costs me $100. If I use a "cash back" credit card I am charged $100 but 1 to 3% of that total cost is put into a "savings" account for me. When a certain level of saving is accrued I can choose it withdraw that in the form of a check and spend it however I want. Since I don't carry a balance I don't have to pay interest charges so I end up saving 1 to 3% when I use a CC over cash. Pretty complicated I know.
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Back to the title of the thread, I have no idea what my credit card interest rate is. I have always paid it off every month. Don't spend it if you don't have it. I guess it was the way I was raised. One time there was a charge for interest on my card. I had paid for pre registration to a BMW rally using a card. The company treated it like I was borrowing cash I guess. Never used that card again.
Pete
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I need to by a widget. I find said widget on widget.com and it cost $100. If I use cash it costs me $100. If I use a "cash back" credit card I am charged $100 but 1 to 3% of that total cost is put into a "savings" account for me. When a certain level of saving is accrued I can choose it withdraw that in the form of a check and spend it however I want. Since I don't carry a balance I don't have to pay interest charges so I end up saving 1 to 3% when I use a CC over cash. Pretty complicated I know.
So the seller is effectively discounting their product ?
Dusty
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I need to by a widget. I find said widget on widget.com and it cost $100. If I use cash it costs me $100. If I use a "cash back" credit card I am charged $100 but 1 to 3% of that total cost is put into a "savings" account for me. When a certain level of saving is accrued I can choose it withdraw that in the form of a check and spend it however I want. Since I don't carry a balance I don't have to pay interest charges so I end up saving 1 to 3% when I use a CC over cash. Pretty complicated I know.
But obviously the seller's credit card processing fees cover this discount to you, which means that they charge more for things they sell to cover it. So it ends up being a fee for paying cash, rather than a discount for using a credit card.
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But obviously the seller's credit card processing fees cover this discount to you, which means that they charge more for things they sell to cover it. So it ends up being a fee for paying cash, rather than a discount for using a credit card.
Ahh , that is what I am thinking . Cash discounts are usually easy enough to negotiate .
Dusty
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My brother in law decades ago found out if he wants to build a credit history he has to have a credit card or make payments on a loan. Up to that point he had always just paid cash. To lenders he had no history of credit worthiness and they wouldn't take a chance on him.
My 1st CC was a Standard gas card back in the 60's. Back then there were no Mastercards, Visa, etc. With that 1 CC I was able to rent a car in the SF Bay area and none of my sailor buddies could because they had no such CC. Now everyone has at least 1 CC unless they don't want any or can't qualify for 1. I currently have 4 CCs and have paid 0 for any of them. Have more for backup in case something happens and I don't lose options.
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Ahh , that is what I am thinking . Cash discounts are usually easy enough to negotiate .
I don't know about usually, but it doesn't hurt to try. I doubt if I can get a cash discount at my grocery store or gas station, for example. I did get one on some land I bought a while back. I remember when gas stations could offer a discount for cash, but I think credit card laws have squashed that. If I remember correctly, and I might not, back in MD in the late '70s or '80s, gas stations were given the option of offering a discount for cash, or offering revolving charge accounts, but they were forbidden from offering both, so most went with the revolving charge option and eliminated the cash discount.
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I don't know about usually, but it doesn't hurt to try. I doubt if I can get a cash discount at my grocery store or gas station, for example. I did get one on some land I bought a while back. I remember when gas stations could offer a discount for cash, but I think credit card laws have squashed that. If I remember correctly, and I might not, back in MD in the late '70s or '80s, gas stations were given the option of offering a discount for cash, or offering revolving charge accounts, but they were forbidden from offering both, so most went with the revolving charge option and eliminated the cash discount.
Some gas stations around here as we speak offer two prices, cash and credit and it's advertised on a sign... ...We use a credit card like it was cash and the balnce is paid every month like some here have said... I like the radio commercials saying how you only need to pay 10 cents on a dollar if you file with us...Many think the credit card companies actually steal your money with brutal interest...Just more victims looking to blame lack of self control on someone else...
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Here in Az., Cal. some gas stations have 2 prices cash or CC .
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At my age the last thing I'm worried about is debt, time to increase it as much as possible! :evil:
Yes, a wise and experienced investment councilor once told me that my strategy should be "you want your last check to bounce".
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Ahh , that is what I am thinking . Cash discounts are usually easy enough to negotiate .
Dusty
I like when I'm selling a motorcycle and people make a "cash" offer thinking I'll accept 100's less because they have a pile of green. I kindly tell them I'll accept payment with a check and or PayPal F&F and take the full asking price. Actually I'd probably take less if they used PayPal for the convenience of not having to go to the bank.
Try to buy a new car/motorcycle with cash and see what happens. You are treated like you are laundering money. You have to fill out a form declaring you didn't get the money from an illegal activity and potentially have to prove so. Good, bad or indifferent cash is almost more of a burden to deal with anymore.
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I like when I'm selling a motorcycle and people make a "cash" offer thinking I'll accept 100's less because they have a pile of green. I kindly tell them I'll accept payment with a check and or PayPal F&F and take the full asking price. Actually I'd probably take less if they used PayPal for the convenience of not having to go to the bank.
Try to buy a new car/motorcycle with cash and see what happens. You are treated like you are laundering money. You have to fill out a form declaring you didn't get the money from an illegal activity and potentially have to prove so. Good, bad or indifferent cash is almost more of a burden to deal with anymore.
Yes , for purchases of $10,000.00 or more with cash a statement is required . Still , many stores locally are encouraging cash transactions . Nothing worse than standing behind a customer in the dollar store whose plastic won't work , while my green stuff always works .
Dusty
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Yes , for purchases of $10,000.00 or more with cash a statement is required . Still , many stores locally are encouraging cash transactions . Nothing worse than standing behind a customer in the dollar store whose plastic won't work , while my green stuff always works .
Dusty
There is worse! The old head breaking out their rubber squeeze change purse placing each coin individually in the cashiers hand and counting as they go.
Are you able to negotiate a discount at the dollar store when paying with cash?
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So the seller is effectively discounting their product ?
Dusty
The seller gives a portion of every credit card sale to the credit card company for the convenience of collecting payment via customers' cards. The credit card company is, in effect, giving the money to the vendor in advance - and thereby assumes the collection risk from the buyer. Fees can be complex and based on transaction, dollar volume, sliding scales - or some combination. For simplicity, let's say the credit card company takes 3% from the seller. Then it gives 1% back to the customer (long after the customer has paid). Companies estimate what percentage will pay cash and what will pay by credit. Some mark up their products to cover the average credit card transaction costs. But I think most factor in CC fees for every transaction - and those who pay cash are, in effect, failing to claim their discount.
The credit card industry philosophy is essentially this: To make transactions convenient, we'll advance the money, take net 2% of every sale for ourselves, and if any borrower doesn't pay us on time, we'll make money on that too.
In my own business I look at the amount we pay annually for the privilege of taking credit cards and it is enough to put several new motorcycles in my garage every year... but... when a customer pays with credit, the business gets cash immediately and doesn't have to spend any time/money on collections or facilitating other types of transactions. Whether it's a necessary evil or a cost of doing business depends on one's point of view. I see it as a cost of doing business - and I take advantage of airline miles, cash rewards, etc. as a consumer (and never pay interest).
Credit limits also provide a nice safety net in case of emergency - and the ability to take advantage of an opportunity (new guzzi content).
As to the original question re rates - if you have a good history and they've raised the rates, just call and ask to be put on a lower-rate program - you can threaten to cancel and apply for a new, low-rate card if asking nicely doesn't work.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXId5jOTxdg
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Bobby Layne (famous UT & NFLI Detriot football player):
"My only request is that I draw my last dollar and my last breath at the exact same moment."
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The seller gives a portion of every credit card sale to the credit card company for the convenience of collecting payment via customers' cards. The credit card company is, in effect, giving the money to the vendor in advance - and thereby assumes the collection risk from the buyer. Fees can be complex and based on transaction, dollar volume, sliding scales - or some combination. For simplicity, let's say the credit card company takes 3% from the seller. Then it gives 1% back to the customer (long after the customer has paid). Companies estimate what percentage will pay cash and what will pay by credit. Some mark up their products to cover the average credit card transaction costs. But I think most factor in CC fees for every transaction - and those who pay cash are, in effect, failing to claim their discount.
The credit card industry philosophy is essentially this: To make transactions convenient, we'll advance the money, take net 2% of every sale for ourselves, and if any borrower doesn't pay us on time, we'll make money on that too.
In my own business I look at the amount we pay annually for the privilege of taking credit cards and it is enough to put several new motorcycles in my garage every year... but... when a customer pays with credit, the business gets cash immediately and doesn't have to spend any time/money on collections or facilitating other types of transactions. Whether it's a necessary evil or a cost of doing business depends on one's point of view. I see it as a cost of doing business - and I take advantage of airline miles, cash rewards, etc. as a consumer (and never pay interest).
Credit limits also provide a nice safety net in case of emergency - and the ability to take advantage of an opportunity (new guzzi content).
As to the original question re rates - if you have a good history and they've raised the rates, just call and ask to be put on a lower-rate program - you can threaten to cancel and apply for a new, low-rate card if asking nicely doesn't work.
That's an excellent summary of how the system works. AND how you can make it work to your advantage. I only spend about $20,000 a year using the credit card (groceries, equipment parts, most on-line purchases) so I send for the little $200 check each year as a result. Not much but can't get that when you pay cash ... !
Lannis
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What is a credit card? I do have a debit/credit card with Chase. 36.?? something rate. I have never used it. Unbelievable that a bank can make such excessive profits. Paying less than 1/2% interest on their capital and then selling at 72 times cost? What other business can get away with this? The overhead on the capital is very small. Not like manufacturing or retail.
Uh..no.
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The sophisticated can apply for lines of credit or home interest loans. Those are scrutinized a little more closely now than they were a few years ago, and I'll bet a majority of us on this forum would qualify. But would you take one to buy a mint T-3? It's tempting at 2.9% for the first year. Almost free money, for a while.
Just a related note. I've had equity lines of credit in the past, but the landscape has changed significantly since the housing crash.
The amount of hoops necessary for a regular mortgage these days is incredible compared to pre-07, and I suspect there have been similar complications to the home equity market.
Our own bank turned us down for one last year, with over $100k in equity, credit ratings north of 800, and not insignificant income. The stated reason for rejection was "insufficient equity" which was shocking to us.
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The real reason is the price of money is too low. High interest, high profits allow banks to take more risk. Some underwriters and bank boards get very scared..
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Just a related note. I've had equity lines of credit in the past, but the landscape has changed significantly since the housing crash.
The amount of hoops necessary for a regular mortgage these days is incredible compared to pre-07, and I suspect there have been similar complications to the home equity market.
Our own bank turned us down for one last year, with over $100k in equity, credit ratings north of 800, and not insignificant income. The stated reason for rejection was "insufficient equity" which was shocking to us.
HARP ->FHFA Announces New Streamlined Refinance Offering for High LTV Borrowers: HARP Extended through September 2017
http://www.fhfa.gov/Media/PublicAffairs/Pages/FHFA-Announces-New-Streamlined-Refinance-Offering-for-High-LTV-Borrowers-HARP-Extended-through-September-2017.aspx
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Best rule of thumb for ANY credit card / credit card rates.............. ...just PAY THEM OFF each month - then you have 0% interest!! :shocked:
"Debt is the modern form of slavery..." :cool:
JJC
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Best rule of thumb for ANY credit card / credit card rates.............. ...just PAY THEM OFF each month - then you have 0% interest!! :shocked:
"Debt is the modern form of slavery..." :cool:
JJC
Why even use them then? Do you like being tracked on every purchase? Why not just carry a few huns instead?
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The tracking thing cracks me up! Sure, use cash if you worry about that. Don't carry a cell phone if you don't like being tracked..
The convenience of a CREDIT card is safety in the purchase. If my wallet is lost or stolen, only a small amount of cash is lost-if any.
However, a debit card, not so much. Avoid using those for purchases.
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Why even use them then? Do you like being tracked on every purchase? Why not just carry a few huns instead?
Three reasons, for me anyway:
1) On line purchases (probably half of what I spend)
2) Car/equipment rentals. Can't do that with cash.
3) Emergency purchases on a trip.
And if you're carrying $2500 in cash and you lose it, you lose it. Cards (debit or credit), you don't lose a thing. Banks don't treat debit and credit cards differently when reimbursing you for a loss - it's all funny money anyway.
Come to think of it, cash is funny money too, but as long as we all believe it's worth something, then it is ....
Lannis
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The tracking thing cracks me up! Sure, use cash if you worry about that. Don't carry a cell phone if you don't like being tracked..
The convenience of a CREDIT card is safety in the purchase. If my wallet is lost or stolen, only a small amount of cash is lost-if any.
However, a debit card, not so much. Avoid using those for purchases.
Correct, no shill-phone either, worried about the boogieman eh. How often does one get their wallet stolen or lost? Also, those small venders luv when you use your CC on a cup of coffee.
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Best rule of thumb for ANY credit card / credit card rates.............. ...just PAY THEM OFF each month - then you have 0% interest!! :shocked:
"Debt is the modern form of slavery..." :cool:
JJC
There's an 18th century quote that goes like that.
"Gold is the money of kings, silver the money of gentlemen, debt is the money of slaves".
Lannis
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Want to beat the system? Over pay your account and carry a positive balance. Since saving accounts do not pay any interest to brag about and what is paid is taxable income and credit card interest is not deductible for most people.
When I had over draft protection on my debit card, I would pay the bank back within a day or less and add a couple of extra dollars onto the payment. The bank would send me a statement monthly for a $0.29 balance and then after 3 months, mail a refund check. If you are not regular user of your credit card and plan on using it, go on line to your bank, make a payment to the credit card account in the amount you expect to spend while on vacation or car rental or airplane tickets or where ever. Then you will not be charged any interest for the using the credit card.
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Want to beat the system? Over pay your account and carry a positive balance. Since saving accounts do not pay any interest to brag about and what is paid is taxable income and credit card interest is not deductible for most people.
When I had over draft protection on my debit card, I would pay the bank back within a day or less and add a couple of extra dollars onto the payment. The bank would send me a statement monthly for a $0.29 balance and then after 3 months, mail a refund check. If you are not regular user of your credit card and plan on using it, go on line to your bank, make a payment to the credit card account in the amount you expect to spend while on vacation or car rental or airplane tickets or where ever. Then you will not be charged any interest for the using the credit card.
Our bank card hates for you to do that, and tries to make it difficult. If you have a zero or positive balance, you can't pay ahead. But if you have a $200 balance, you can pay $400 and treat the card as an interest-free savings account, which is what the bank does with your cash balance anyhow ....
Lannis
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If my wallet is lost or stolen, only a small amount of cash is lost-if any.
However, a debit card, not so much. Avoid using those for purchases.
Oddly enough, my new ATM card just arrived, and in the page accompanying it there were brags about the same level of protection that only credit cards used to have, so something is driving the market in that direction.
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Well, Norm, they mnay say that, but with a credit card the bank works to protect THEIR money. With a debit card, they are protecting YOUR money.
In a chargeback on a credit card it is generally the acquiring bank that is exposed, and they will pass it to the merchant if possible.
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To me it seems that people who constantly discuss money actually have none....Without being disrespectful, some of you ,based on the things you say and what you purchase, are in deep debt...That's ok, it's good for the merchants...
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To me it seems that people who constantly discuss money actually have none....Without being disrespectful, some of you ,based on the things you say and what you purchase, are in deep debt...That's ok, it's good for the merchants...
Money, it's A gas.......
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/funeral-080210-lg-48699272.jpg)
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To me it seems that people who constantly discuss money actually have none....Without being disrespectful, some of you ,based on the things you say and what you purchase, are in deep debt...That's ok, it's good for the merchants...
So (upon reading your impression) I went back and read every post on this thread. Only ONE person (CoolRunnings) currently says he's running a $3500 line of credit (not a credit card, probably a 3% equity or unsecured personal line). Not unreasonable in an era of low to zero interest.
Every other person that posted said that they are NOT running a balance on their credit card, that they pay it off every day, every week, or every month, and don't pay a cent of interest; many have said they are taking advantage of the "cash back" feature of their card and getting back 1% of the 2.5% interest that the MERCHANT pays the CC company.
Sure, the "world at large" is running in debt, buying stuff they can't afford, defaulting on their payments and letting the other interest-payers cover their cheating .... but it doesn't sound like this WG bunch is doing anything like that. All I've heard here is good ideas of how to take advantage of the convenience of a card, and letting other people pay the cost ... ?
When it comes to retirement planning, investing, or using credit wisely, it's a big advantage having a bunch of tightwad nickel-squeezing old toots to get advice from ...
Lannis
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So (upon reading your impression) I went back and read every post on this thread. Only ONE person (CoolRunnings) currently says he's running a $3500 line of credit (not a credit card, probably a 3% equity or unsecured personal line). Not unreasonable in an era of low to zero interest.
Every other person that posted said that they are NOT running a balance on their credit card, that they pay it off every day, every week, or every month, and don't pay a cent of interest; many have said they are taking advantage of the "cash back" feature of their card and getting back 1% of the 2.5% interest that the MERCHANT pays the CC company.
Sure, the "world at large" is running in debt, buying stuff they can't afford, defaulting on their payments and letting the other interest-payers cover their cheating .... but it doesn't sound like this WG bunch is doing anything like that. All I've heard here is good ideas of how to take advantage of the convenience of a card, and letting other people pay the cost ... ?
When it comes to retirement planning, investing, or using credit wisely, it's a big advantage having a bunch of tightwad nickel-squeezing old toots to get advice from ...
Lannis
The ones with high CC debt ain't sayin' so. Human nature, only say good things regarding ones self.
The Average Credit Card Debt in America is $3,779
https://www.credit.com/debt/average-credit-card-debt/
TransUnion's estimate of average card debt per borrower, at $5,234
To define the average American's credit card debt, CreditCards.com turned to impeccable sources -- and came up with a multitude of credible numbers.
•$1,098, per card that doesn't carry a balance.
•$1,648, per account, U.S. adults with a credit report and Social Security number.
•$3,600, per person, resident U.S. adults.
•$5,234, per cardholder, excluding unused cards, store cards.
•$5,596, per U.S. adult with credit card.
•$5,700, per household with credit card debt.
•$7,743, per card that usually carries a balance.
For an in-depth look at all types of credit card debt, see "Credit card debt statistics"
When it comes to credit card debt, that average Joe is one elusive fellow.
All of the numbers above are from impeccable sources defining "average credit card debt" for Americans. As you can see, the numbers vary greatly, so depending on how debt is measured, we're either doing pretty well when it comes to managing our credit cards, or horribly.
"You think these things are simple, but they're more subtle and complex than you imagine," said Ezra Becker, vice president of research and consulting at TransUnion's financial services unit. His firm came up with the $5,234 number, which includes actual amounts spent and reported to the giant credit bureau, but excludes unused cards and store cards.
The hunt for average
The complications stem from different ways of defining credit cards, different ways of counting the card-carrying population, and the different ways people use their cards. Finding the typical balance is like the parable of the blind men identifying an elephant from the shape of its parts -- each observation is part of a larger truth.
The Federal Reserve, which runs the national banking system, is a natural place to start looking for the average credit card balance. The Fed's monthly G.19 Consumer Credit report -- drawn from banks' lending reports -- shows revolving debt of $880 billion in July 2014. Divided by the U.S. Census Bureau's estimate of the U.S. adult population in 2013 of about 242.5 million people, that comes to just over $3,600 each.
However, the revolving debt category includes bank loans and finance company loans other than credit cards, and many people over 18 do not have a credit card. Adjusting for the fraction of adults who do not have a card, the per person balance is about $5,121.
The Federal Reserve Bank of New York tries for a more precise look at credit card debt by excluding other types of revolving debt. The average credit card balance in the U.S. was $1,648 per account in the second quarter of 2014.
http://www.creditcards.com/credit-card-news/average-credit_card_debt-1276.php
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By saying some are carrying high dept is based on their new cars ,trucks and several new bikes,a fine house in good neighbor hood and perhaps kids in college...Not just what they say about credit card balances....
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The ones with high CC debt ain't sayin' so. Human nature, only say good things regarding ones self.
And from RER .... "Without being disrespectful, some of you ,based on the things you say and what you purchase, are in deep debt...That's ok, it's good for the merchants..."
I do understand human nature, but I'd also stake a month's pension check that the guys who have posted on this list (including me, and I KNOW my situation) who say they carry no credit card balance actually carry no credit card balance.
Do other guys on the list who have NOT posted carry credit card balances? I'm sure they do, but they are wisely not discussing that, as they've realized it's not a good financial decision.
Do the guys who have posted saying they have no credit card balances have OTHER debt, on houses, cars, businesses, motorcycles? I'm sure they do; but ....
.... the point of this thread was the massive, silly interest rates on credit cards. I think everyone agrees that's a bad idea, even though many (as indicated by the statistics) do it. Carrying a 2.9% mortgage at the moment is NOT a bad idea, but I don't think most of us had that in mind when discussing it ....
Overall, after reading 8 years and 500,000 posts worth of material on this list, I think that most people here are handling their finances pretty well, from what they say. Lots of good advice, as you'd expect from someone who runs a Guzzi ....
Lannis
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Last week when the local internet went down, the whole local world stopped.
I tell everyone to put some good hard cash back for an emergency. Not just some change, but several thousand dollars. Reach in your pocket and see how far you can go. If not far, you will be one of the first ones in the government assistance line. My plan, be the money changer when the time comes.
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We planted a couple of these money trees but I think we got bananas instead. Darn.
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/money-tree_zpswoftbnur.jpg)
:wink:
Yes, we have no bananas.
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Last week when the local internet went down, the whole local world stopped.
I tell everyone to put some good hard cash back for an emergency. Not just some change, but several thousand dollars. Reach in your pocket and see how far you can go. If not far, you will be one of the first ones in the government assistance line. My plan, be the money changer when the time comes.
Not a bad idea, but when you say "hard cash" do you literally mean "hard cash" or do you mean the funny green paper stuff we trade back and forth?
Depending on the type of emergency, I think the smart guy will have dropped back to that soft sort of metal that's been good for 10,000 years, regardless of local conditions.
But maybe it won't get that bad.
Lannis
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Do the guys who have posted saying they have no credit card balances have OTHER debt, on houses, cars, businesses, motorcycles? I'm sure they do; but ....
Lannis
No but, debt is debt... And yes I know the tread is about CC debt............... ......... :wink:
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Mr. Down , I give you exhibit A . The Penn Square Bank , Oklahoma City Oklahoma .
Dusty
That story serves to illustrate how institutions are inter-linked & dependent upon one another with the potential to behave like domino's if pushed too far. That and a propensity to push too far.
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No but, debt is debt... And yes I know the tread is about CC debt............... ......... :wink:
Well, just to be a little picky, and maybe telling you something you already know ....
... but debts are not necessarily equal. If I borrow $50,000 on 84 payments at 4% interest to buy a Dodge Ram 3500 Crew Cab Dually pickup truck with all the gadgets so I can drive it to the store and show it off to my boys and go hunting in it ... that isn't the same as borrowing $50,000 to help buy a used Peterbilt so that I can haul loads and produce income and pay the truck off and still have an asset that is worth something and is still making me money.
Or if I open a car repair garage and borrow $90,000 to buy a full set of Snap-On tools and cabinets, and I use those tools to make money, and $15 of my $90 shop rate is paying off those tools, then in 3 years I will have paid off those tools, made a living, and I still have the tools! If I hadn't borrowed the money, I couldn't have made a living during that time. But if I borrowed $90,000 for a Winnebago, and drive it around the country getting 6 MPG and paying $60 a night to park up, in a few years it's worth almost nothing; "enjoyment-wise" it might have been worth it, but I have no money at the end, unlike the Snap-On set.
Same for a house. Borrowing money in order to be able to make MORE money is how the world works. Borrowing money for junk you don't need and can't make the payments on is the bane of the financially dim .....
Lannis
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Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
Hamlet Act 1, scene 3, 75–77
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Well, just to be a little picky, and maybe telling you something you already know ....
... but debts are not necessarily equal. If I borrow $50,000 on 84 payments at 4% interest to buy a Dodge Ram 3500 Crew Cab Dually pickup truck with all the gadgets so I can drive it to the store and show it off to my boys and go hunting in it ... that isn't the same as borrowing $50,000 to help buy a used Peterbilt so that I can haul loads and produce income and pay the truck off and still have an asset that is worth something and is still making me money.
Or if I open a car repair garage and borrow $90,000 to buy a full set of Snap-On tools and cabinets, and I use those tools to make money, and $15 of my $90 shop rate is paying off those tools, then in 3 years I will have paid off those tools, made a living, and I still have the tools! If I hadn't borrowed the money, I couldn't have made a living during that time. But if I borrowed $90,000 for a Winnebago, and drive it around the country getting 6 MPG and paying $60 a night to park up, in a few years it's worth almost nothing; "enjoyment-wise" it might have been worth it, but I have no money at the end, unlike the Snap-On set.
Same for a house. Borrowing money in order to be able to make MORE money is how the world works. Borrowing money for junk you don't need and can't make the payments on is the bane of the financially dim .....
Lannis
yes, but if consumers didn't go into debt and purchase Dodge pickup trucks that mechanic wouldn't have customers and would have never taken a loan to buy Snap-On tools in the first place. Worse yet, the car company would have fewer customers ...well you can see where that's going?
Yes, it does take producers but there would be no producers without customers buying services and products.
Moral: credit can be useful tool to grow the economy and benefits both producers and customers. And the economy won't function unless there is balance of both types of credit.
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We're in debt, to our eyeballs.
Current numbers are around
$340k balance on house (purchase price was much higher). And Fwiw we showed some restraint as we looked at and could have bought a much bigger and more expensive place(were approved for much more).
$140k on student loans (down from 200k at peak about 8 years ago, and dropping at about $1k/month) but at least interest rates are 0.6-1.8% on most of it (the small amount that is not is on a much more aggressive payback plan). Some friends of Jenn and I who differed their loans through residency/fellowship hit peaks the $350k range and some are just beginning to pay them back (meaning we're about 6 years ahead of them just in the amount of time we've been paying), so I feel we're doing OK.
We do have one car loan at < 2% and we do have some CC debt at 0% (which should paid off before the 0% runs out).
Truthfully we have spent a lot of money over the years on cars and motorcycles purchased new, and that includes interest. But no one is guaranteed tomorrow and that's been our biggest indulgence.
Still we were in borrow mode for a long time and now are in pay off and save mode as well as we can be.
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yes, but if consumers didn't go into debt and purchase Dodge pickup trucks that mechanic wouldn't have customers and would have never taken a loan to buy Snap-On tools in the first place. Worse yet, the car company would have fewer customers ...well you can see where that's going?
Yes, it does take producers but there would be no producers without customers buying services and products.
Moral: credit can be useful tool to grow the economy and benefits both producers and customers. And the economy won't function unless there is balance of both types of credit.
I agree with all that.
Lannis
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I've had a AMX for the past 22 years. It had been compromised twice with fraudulent billings, but AMX has been quick to shut the account and issue a new card. Always pay the balance every month and no fees. Problem is, not everyone takes AMX especially some restaurants (and some only take cash) because of higher cost to merchants for using their cards. I've been curious about this: is loosing a sale better than making a sale with less profit because of the extra expense? Maybe the volume of use of that particular card is not enough to justify the expense of having multiple accounts - to the merchant.
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Not a bad idea, but when you say "hard cash" do you literally mean "hard cash" or do you mean the funny green paper stuff we trade back and forth?
Depending on the type of emergency, I think the smart guy will have dropped back to that soft sort of metal that's been good for 10,000 years, regardless of local conditions.
But maybe it won't get that bad.
Lannis
I mean the green folding kind and coins. Not the ruby, gems and precious metals. Have you ever tried to trade a diamond for a loaf of bread? Seriously. How do you make change? The reason for the invention of money. Sure the apocalyptic situation can arise sometime. When that happens, there will be much bigger problems to deal with. My money changer comment is my plan. Trade cash early in the meltdown for the rubies, gems and precious metals and then as you expect, have the trading beads for later. I keep cash on hand for the initial meltdown and the purchase starter trading beads. Which will be plentiful. I am ready.
Debt is one part of economic, cash on hand is the other. Someone listed in one of the post the various reported consumer/credit card debt. What is worse is the actual amount of "cash" available to the average America household. Less than $400. Giving me the opportunity to buy up many trading beads early and at a deep discount. Why buy now when the market will be flooded with precious stones and metal because the $400 in the average household is gone. People cannot eat "money". Economics 101 will still be in place if there is an apocalyptic event. Supply and demand.
Right now, the American economy is sliding into a "buyers market". Just try to sell one of your toys or have a yard sale. You will either sell your toys cheap or give them away.
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Well, just to be a little picky, and maybe telling you something you already know ....
... but debts are not necessarily equal. If I borrow $50,000 on 84 payments at 4% interest to buy a Dodge Ram 3500 Crew Cab Dually pickup truck with all the gadgets so I can drive it to the store and show it off to my boys and go hunting in it ... that isn't the same as borrowing $50,000 to help buy a used Peterbilt so that I can haul loads and produce income and pay the truck off and still have an asset that is worth something and is still making me money.
Or if I open a car repair garage and borrow $90,000 to buy a full set of Snap-On tools and cabinets, and I use those tools to make money, and $15 of my $90 shop rate is paying off those tools, then in 3 years I will have paid off those tools, made a living, and I still have the tools! If I hadn't borrowed the money, I couldn't have made a living during that time. But if I borrowed $90,000 for a Winnebago, and drive it around the country getting 6 MPG and paying $60 a night to park up, in a few years it's worth almost nothing; "enjoyment-wise" it might have been worth it, but I have no money at the end, unlike the Snap-On set.
Same for a house. Borrowing money in order to be able to make MORE money is how the world works. Borrowing money for junk you don't need and can't make the payments on is the bane of the financially dim .....
Lannis
..I ran a very successful electrical contracting business using a well used Jeep Cherokee and tools bought used ....I never had stock and bought the materials needed for a particular job.. My monthly bill at the local electrical supply house was often 2500 bucks and paid in full before the end of the month....My competitors had new vans full of new tools and nice clothes with the company name on their shirts...But I could under bid them and still make 45 bucks an hour after expenses...I learned this when previously running for large contractors and bring in jobs on tight competitive budgets..
Like many here my first house was not the best, because I bought what I could afford if I lost my job.....It's easy to spend money, it's a lot more difficult not to spend :laugh:
Of course while trying to be cheap I can get into trouble..The cheap can become expensive
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yes, but if consumers didn't go into debt and purchase Dodge pickup trucks that mechanic wouldn't have customers and would have never taken a loan to buy Snap-On tools in the first place. Worse yet, the car company would have fewer customers ...well you can see where that's going?
Yes, it does take producers but there would be no producers without customers buying services and products.
Moral: credit can be useful tool to grow the economy and benefits both producers and customers. And the economy won't function unless there is balance of both types of credit.
The borrowing of "cash flow/capitol expenses" is one concept, but borrowing to meet your "wants" is another.
I have borrowed money to make money many times. It works, its a risk. I have avoided consumer debt. With today's extremely low borrowing interest rates, there are a lot of people making money off other peoples money.
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I've had a AMX for the past 22 years. It had been compromised twice with fraudulent billings, but AMX has been quick to shut the account and issue a new card. Always pay the balance every month and no fees. Problem is, not everyone takes AMX especially some restaurants (and some only take cash) because of higher cost to merchants for using their cards. I've been curious about this: is loosing a sale better than making a sale with less profit because of the extra expense? Maybe the volume of use of that particular card is not enough to justify the expense of having multiple accounts - to the merchant.
Good question. I will admit, I am in the processing business, have been for 20 years. I have accounts that do not make me money as an individual account. I have accounts that make me good money. I look at the average revenue stream per account. The reason, customer relations. A merchant may have more than one retail location or give my name to their friend that is opening a retail location.
While many have talked about the liability of a CC, as the sales rep, I am the last man out. I am personally responsible for the merchants account. We are talking Million$ in transaction annually. Have I had to pay up? Yes, but not much. Do I make money, yes, but not as much as in the past. I have more accounts now than ever, but make 1/8 as much profit per transaction. Why keep doing it? Because I am established with a very large base. Someone wanting to get into the business would have to be willing to work many months without pay just to create a base and make a few hundred dollars a week in 6 months. There is plenty of business, but very few sales people.
I learned many years ago, I can sell my time to someone or I can sell something else. I chose the something else. I only get 168 hours per week to sell. When I switched from selling my time to selling something else, my income went up 5 times.
Yes, some merchant will give up a sales rather than pay the higher fee to process some cc's.
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We're in debt, to our eyeballs.
Current numbers are around
$340k balance on house (purchase price was much higher). And Fwiw we showed some restraint as we looked at and could have bought a much bigger and more expensive place(were approved for much more).
$140k on student loans (down from 200k at peak about 8 years ago, and dropping at about $1k/month) but at least interest rates are 0.6-1.8% on most of it (the small amount that is not is on a much more aggressive payback plan). Some friends of Jenn and I who differed their loans through residency/fellowship hit peaks the $350k range and some are just beginning to pay them back (meaning we're about 6 years ahead of them just in the amount of time we've been paying), so I feel we're doing OK.
We do have one car loan at < 2% and we do have some CC debt at 0% (which should paid off before the 0% runs out).
Truthfully we have spent a lot of money over the years on cars and motorcycles purchased new, and that includes interest. But no one is guaranteed tomorrow and that's been our biggest indulgence.
Still we were in borrow mode for a long time and now are in pay off and save mode as well as we can be.
New row houses in the area are selling for $275,000, single family over 400k. I can't imagine what it costs to live in the East or West coast areas.
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New row houses in the area are selling for $275,000, single family over 400k. I can't imagine what it costs to live in the East or West coast areas.
Literally just on our small lake houses range anywhere from $200k-$1.2M.
Considering we hoped to settle into a house to raise our kids while Jenn settled into her career I think we were very conservative and fall well into the lower half of that range.
Truthfully even here in this community there are plenty of smaller, reasonably-priced places to live. Of course taxes, which are ridiculously high in this state, change that profile a bit.
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I've had a AMX for the past 22 years. It had been compromised twice with fraudulent billings, but AMX has been quick to shut the account and issue a new card. Always pay the balance every month and no fees. Problem is, not everyone takes AMX especially some restaurants (and some only take cash) because of higher cost to merchants for using their cards. I've been curious about this: is loosing a sale better than making a sale with less profit because of the extra expense? Maybe the volume of use of that particular card is not enough to justify the expense of having multiple accounts - to the merchant.
The American Express thing is status. They have traditionally made up for not getting interest on balances by charging high annual fees to card holders, and high merchant fees, and promoting the idea that people with their highest annual fee cards have higher status in life than those with regular cards like Visa and Mastercard.
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..I ran a very successful electrical contracting business using a well used Jeep Cherokee and tools bought used ....I never had stock and bought the materials needed for a particular job.. My monthly bill at the local electrical supply house was often 2500 bucks and paid in full before the end of the month....My competitors had new vans full of new tools and nice clothes with the company name on their shirts...But I could under bid them and still make 45 bucks an hour after expenses...I learned this when previously running for large contractors and bring in jobs on tight competitive budgets..
Like many here my first house was not the best, because I bought what I could afford if I lost my job.....It's easy to spend money, it's a lot more difficult not to spend :laugh:
Of course while trying to be cheap I can get into trouble..The cheap can become expensive
The difference in your business model and the guy with the nice "trucks" and "employees", if he takes a day off or is sick, his employees are still making money for the him/her. You are carrying 100% of the liability with the 168 hours a week God gave you. He/She spread the liability out thru all the employees. Your $2,500 may have been 1/10 of New truck guy. If you make 50% margin on materials, New Truck guy is making 10 times as much.
Many people have got mad at the boss because he was wealthy, charging customer $75 an hour and paying the labor $20. The problem, the employee thought they could do the same job and make $65 an hour. Not realizing they would also have to be a salesman, a buyer, an office manager, a shop manager, and a laborer. Leaving them 15 hours a week to do the job.
There is something to be said about being self employed though. Been doing for 20 years and love it.
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The difference in your business model and the guy with the nice "trucks" and "employees", if he takes a day off or is sick, his employees are still making money for the him/her. You are carrying 100% of the liability with the 168 hours a week God gave you. He/She spread the liability out thru all the employees. Your $2,500 may have been 1/10 of New truck guy. If you make 50% margin on materials, New Truck guy is making 10 times as much.
Many people have got mad at the boss because he was wealthy, charging customer $75 an hour and paying the labor $20. The problem, the employee thought they could do the same job and make $65 an hour. Not realizing they would also have to be a salesman, a buyer, an office manager, a shop manager, and a laborer. Leaving them 15 hours a week to do the job.
There is something to be said about being self employed though. Been doing for 20 years and love it.
Nephew make $1,000 + a day doing spray foam insulation and HATES it! :evil:
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I agree with all that.
Lannis
Dammit Landis. I was set up for a big fight with you and.... and....crap!
OK, I got your name wrong. Take that!
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Dammit Landis. I was set up for a big fight with you and.... and....crap!
OK, I got your name wrong. Take that!
I know. Part of the curse of the Internet. I don't know how many times someone says "Stop The Presses! Oh My God! I Agree With Lannis" ... and it's someone that I agree with 95% of the time ...
The typical problem with communication is that people don't respond to what you actually WRITE. They see one or two "keywords" in the post, instantly set up their pre-fabbed favorite Straw Man (white supremacist, communist, fascist, puritan, capitalist swine, storm trooper, whatever) and then respond to HIM, because they have such a good answer for THAT s.o.b.! Meanwhile, I'm poring over their response in befuddlement, trying to figure out who they're talking to ...
And don't worry about the name. It's such an unusual one that I've been responding to Lantis, Landis, Lannie, Lonnie, Atlantis, Lanis, Lanice ad infinitum ever since kindergarten .... !
Lannis
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Nephew make $1,000 + a day doing spray foam insulation and HATES it! :evil:
Yeah, I have a brother that owns a plumbing company and 10 employees. He makes a $1,000 a day while fishing in Florida.
Your nephew doesn't make anything while fishing. But, again, that is o.k. if it works for him and he is happy. I like being my own boss sometimes. Other times I hate my boss because he make me work when I don't want too.
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I know. Part of the curse of the Internet. I don't know how many times someone says "Stop The Presses! Oh My God! I Agree With Lannis" ... and it's someone that I agree with 95% of the time ...
The typical problem with communication is that people don't respond to what you actually WRITE. They see one or two "keywords" in the post, instantly set up their pre-fabbed favorite Straw Man (white supremacist, communist, fascist, puritan, capitalist swine, storm trooper, whatever) and then respond to HIM, because they have such a good answer for THAT s.o.b.! Meanwhile, I'm poring over their response in befuddlement, trying to figure out who they're talking to ...
And don't worry about the name. It's such an unusual one that I've been responding to Lantis, Landis, Lannie, Lonnie, Atlantis, Lanis, Lanice ad infinitum ever since kindergarten .... !
Lannis
I agree.
Dammit.
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I know. Part of the curse of the Internet. I don't know how many times someone says "Stop The Presses! Oh My God! I Agree With Lannis" ... and it's someone that I agree with 95% of the time ...
The typical problem with communication is that people don't respond to what you actually WRITE. They see one or two "keywords" in the post, instantly set up their pre-fabbed favorite Straw Man (white supremacist, communist, fascist, puritan, capitalist swine, storm trooper, whatever) and then respond to HIM, because they have such a good answer for THAT s.o.b.! Meanwhile, I'm poring over their response in befuddlement, trying to figure out who they're talking to ...
And don't worry about the name. It's such an unusual one that I've been responding to Lantis, Landis, Lannie, Lonnie, Atlantis, Lanis, Lanice ad infinitum ever since kindergarten .... !
Lannis
Ludicrous
You wrote communist, no political post or you will be banned from posting.
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Atlantis is a nice name.
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The difference in your business model and the guy with the nice "trucks" and "employees", if he takes a day off or is sick, his employees are still making money for the him/her. You are carrying 100% of the liability with the 168 hours a week God gave you. He/She spread the liability out thru all the employees. Your $2,500 may have been 1/10 of New truck guy. If you make 50% margin on materials, New Truck guy is making 10 times as much.
Many people have got mad at the boss because he was wealthy, charging customer $75 an hour and paying the labor $20. The problem, the employee thought they could do the same job and make $65 an hour. Not realizing they would also have to be a salesman, a buyer, an office manager, a shop manager, and a laborer. Leaving them 15 hours a week to do the job.
There is something to be said about being self employed though. Been doing for 20 years and love it.
No, the difference I did not work 168 a week...On the average it was about 35 hours....times the 45 bucks an hour clear money before taxes is 1500 bucks a week gross... after taxes and health insurance it was around 1000 clear a week. dump 200 a week into some sort of retirement and 800 clear a week was great money for me..it was actually a bit more than what a union construction electrician made at the time...
I spent less than an hour a week doing paper work...
The other factor is I did specialized work, medical offices, gas stations, food industry, machine shops, auto salvage yards etc...All my work was references from customers..You can almost name your price in this situation...And I did turn down work if the customer appeared shady....
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Amex has chaged their merchant model, generally lower costs to the processor and settling with the bank cards.
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No, the difference I did not work 168 a week...On the average it was about 35 hours....times the 45 bucks an hour clear money before taxes is 1500 bucks a week gross... after taxes and health insurance it was around 1000 clear a week. dump 200 a week into some sort of retirement and 800 clear a week was great money for me..it was actually a bit more than what a union construction electrician made at the time...
I spent less than an hour a week doing paper work...
The other factor is I did specialized work, medical offices, gas stations, food industry, machine shops, auto salvage yards etc...All my work was references from customers..You can almost name your price in this situation...And I did turn down work if the customer appeared shady....
168 hr/wk = 24 hrs x 7 days
i.e., 24/7
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...... Sure the apocalyptic situation can arise sometime. When that happens, there will be much bigger problems to deal with. ....
The two most important items to have when the apocalyptic situation happens..... bullets and toilet paper...... those will get you whatever else you need. :grin:
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New row houses in the area are selling for $275,000, single family over 400k. I can't imagine what it costs to live in the East or West coast areas.
SF Bay Area is friggin' high......
"July's median price rose year-over-year by 4.3 percent to a whopping $1.2 million in San Mateo County and by 5.9 percent to $980,000 in Santa Clara County. Across the bay, it climbed by 3 percent to $731,000 in Alameda County and by 8 percent to $540,000 in Contra Costa County." "Late last year, she sold her 774-square-foot condo in Campbell for $382,000. "
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_30262947
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Neither a borrower nor a lender be,
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
Hamlet Act 1, scene 3, 75�77
Shakespeare did have this advice come from Polonius, however, sort of a dim older fellow lecturing at his son.
Here's what Wiki has to say about Polonius:
Polonius is a character in William Shakespeare's Hamlet. He is chief counselor of the king, and the father of Laertes and Ophelia. Generally regarded as wrong in every judgment he makes over the course of the play, Polonius is described by William Hazlitt as a "sincere" father, but also "a busy-body, [who] is accordingly officious, garrulous, and impertinent." In Act II Hamlet refers to Polonius as a "tedious old fool" and taunts him as a latter day "Jeptha".
Polonius connives with Claudius to spy on Hamlet. Hamlet unknowingly kills Polonius, provoking Ophelia's fit of madness, ultimately resulting in her early death and the climax of the play: a duel between Laertes and Hamlet.
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SF Bay Area is friggin' high......
"July's median price rose year-over-year by 4.3 percent to a whopping $1.2 million in San Mateo County and by 5.9 percent to $980,000 in Santa Clara County. Across the bay, it climbed by 3 percent to $731,000 in Alameda County and by 8 percent to $540,000 in Contra Costa County." "Late last year, she sold her 774-square-foot condo in Campbell for $382,000. "
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_30262947
That's where Californians get all the motorcycle/ toy money, use equity from their homes. :boozing:
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The two most important items to have when the apocalyptic situation happens..... bullets and toilet paper...... those will get you whatever else you need. :grin:
I can imagine that TP might be worth more than bullets.
for all you survivalists here, how do plan to spend that gold? And no matter how many guns you have, how do expect to keep it?
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I can imagine that TP might be worth more than bullets.
for all you survivalists here, how do plan to spend that gold? And no matter how many guns you have, how do expect to keep it?
There's a Gold lady just down the road. Just counting on her to steer me to keep on keeping on............... :bow: Have some silver too fwiw. :smiley:
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Shakespeare did have this advice come from Polonius, however, sort of a dim older fellow lecturing at his son.
Here's what Wiki has to say about Polonius:
Polonius is a character in William Shakespeare's Hamlet. He is chief counselor of the king, and the father of Laertes and Ophelia. Generally regarded as wrong in every judgment he makes over the course of the play, Polonius is described by William Hazlitt as a "sincere" father, but also "a busy-body, [who] is accordingly officious, garrulous, and impertinent." In Act II Hamlet refers to Polonius as a "tedious old fool" and taunts him as a latter day "Jeptha".
Polonius connives with Claudius to spy on Hamlet. Hamlet unknowingly kills Polonius, provoking Ophelia's fit of madness, ultimately resulting in her early death and the climax of the play: a duel between Laertes and Hamlet.
Yes - we must consider the source. Thanks for pointing that out. :-)
If I were to advice the young man, I'd say: Use debt sparingly and as leverage for things you can control or influence (eg your own business or home). Avoid debt for toys and entertainment.