Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: jackthebiker on September 06, 2016, 08:19:36 PM
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I purchased a Dodge Ram 1500 regular cab truck with a 8'0" bed. I am thinking of buying a 6 foot ramp at Harbor Freight to load the V7 in the truck to haul it around when needed. Do I need a wheel chock to hold the front wheel in place, or can I just leave the bike on the side stand and strap it down?
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Buy the chock .
Dusty
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I use a Condor wheel chock up in the front of the bed of my Tacoma. Locks it in place, and makes it easier to get it strapped down. All about the piece of mind.
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I use a Condor wheel chock up in the front of the bed of my Tacoma. Locks it in place, and makes it easier to get it strapped down. All about the piece of mind.
And not breaking a sidestand , or gashing the PU bed .
Dusty
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Spend the money on the wheel chock.I picked one up on sale for $40.
I wouldn't trust the side stand or the center stand for transporting.
Tex
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You wouldn't tie it down on the sidestand anyway. Without the chock you brace the tire against the front of the bed and strap it down upright with the forks heavily compressed.
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Chock or not, don't use the side stand. Just use some good straps and attach them on the Ram's provided bed-tie-down brackets. (your truck should have two on each side)
Here a picture of my Norge on my short-bed Ram
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s180/ndicroce/Norge/Norge-Ram_zpspouwtlyf.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/ndicroce/media/Norge/Norge-Ram_zpspouwtlyf.jpg.html)
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Chock or not, don't use the side stand. Just use some good straps and attach them on the Ram's provided bed-tie-down brackets. (your truck should have two on each side)
Here a picture of my Norge on my short-bed Ram
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s180/ndicroce/Norge/Norge-Ram_zpspouwtlyf.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/ndicroce/media/Norge/Norge-Ram_zpspouwtlyf.jpg.html)
What's all that white stuff Nick :shocked:
Dusty
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And he probably rode it up the ramp in all that snow!
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i went without a chock for years ....and when i finally got one ..i though what the hell was i waiting for they are the only way to go... get a good that not only locks the wheel but clamps on the the sides of your tire as well they are worth the $$
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I'm with Keener, you can usually securely tie a bike down without a chock, but you've really got to think about it, use multiple straps, and every once in a while you'll have one that's tough. Happened to my MV Agusta. Couldn't get enough load on the front tire, and it kept wanting to walk around on the bed. Almost tipped it over before I noticed it while driving in the rear view mirror of the truck and repositioned it in the bed and tied it a different way. Since then I made a custom chock and worlds of difference. Two straps and that bike ain't going nowhere with that front wheel locked in the chock. Made me wonder as well "What the hell was I wating for".
TDF
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If you decide to go without a chock just make sure you tie down at four points.
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Proper loading technique....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T2xpAdKIS74
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Better have two to three strong guys to load.
I've spent decades pushing 350 lbs+ of concrete in wheel barrels, pushing a 450 lb motorcycle up a ramp is difficult and dangerous.
Heck at 62 and 235 lbs yeah, with 45 lbs of chub I wouldn't push my Griso up onto a trailer by myself then again I've lost loads before and know how bad it is when they get away from you.
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I found a reasonably priced 48" wide ramp that is fairly long; makes it riding the bike a breeze and I can walk it down just as easily. The ramp splits into thirds so that it is fairly easy to stuff the bits along the bike (wrap the ramps in a canvas tarp to control noise and abrasion).
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I found a reasonably priced 48" wide ramp that is fairly long; makes it riding the bike a breeze and I can walk it down just as easily. The ramp splits into thirds so that it is fairly easy to stuff the bits along the bike (wrap the ramps in a canvas tarp to control noise and abrasion).
What is the name of the ramp? I found a 6'0" ramp at Harbor Freight for $149 dollars. About 3' wide I think and solid plate alum. If I put my rear wheels of the truck in the end of the driveway gutter I only have 29" to the tail gate from the ground, still 6' seems a little short, 8' would be better.
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Chock or not, don't use the side stand. Just use some good straps and attach them on the Ram's provided bed-tie-down brackets. (your truck should have two on each side)
Here a picture of my Norge on my short-bed Ram
(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s180/ndicroce/Norge/Norge-Ram_zpspouwtlyf.jpg) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/ndicroce/media/Norge/Norge-Ram_zpspouwtlyf.jpg.html)
Nick, looks like what I need to escape this winter.
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Better have two to three strong guys to load.
I've spent decades pushing 350 lbs+ of concrete in wheel barrels, pushing a 450 lb motorcycle up a ramp is difficult and dangerous.
Heck at 62 and 235 lbs yeah, with 45 lbs of chub I wouldn't push my Griso up onto a trailer by myself then again I've lost loads before and know how bad it is when they get away from you.
I am 64 and 200 lbs and spent most of my life watching other people work, and sitting behind a desk. And my helper would be my 130 lb wife. Sounds like trouble doesn't it.
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What's all that white stuff Nick :shocked:
Dusty
That white stuff just made my stomach turn.. Summer is dwindling down... noOOOoooooo :cry:
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Nick, looks like what I need to escape this winter.
That was in Feb. 2007. I had just purchased the Norge from a dealer in northern NY State and could not wait to pick her up and ride her back, until the snow storm the day before dumped 2ft of the white stuff in the area. So, the first ride for the brand new Guzzi was on my pickup truck :wink:
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Uh OH , this could lead to a thread on the Harley forum about guzzi's always riding around in the back of pick up's. :laugh:
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Uh OH , this could lead to a thread on the Harley forum about guzzi's always riding around in the back of pick up's. :laugh:
Let me just go ahead and apologize for this .
"You ain't nuthin but a hound dog" .
Just couldn't help myself :embarrassed:
Dusty
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Like others have said.... get the chock. I have a Condor I use to do oil changes, etc.
I'm thinking of getting a Chevy Colorado short bed and want to put a smaller bike (250cc - 350cc) in the bed with the rear wheel sitting on the tailgate. Anybody have any pictures of that set-up?
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Get the widest ramp possible. All you have to do is watch one guy step off the tailgate, miss the ramp, and fall on his ass with the bike then falling in his direction. Youtube is full of proof.
+1 on the chock. Remember that as you go down the road the suspension will compress. Your straps will be tight, then loose, then tight. Too loose and the bike starts to walk, too tight and you risk blowing the fork seals. Also, on the loose cycle a hook can come free and all hell will follow. With a chock at least you can keep the front end under control.
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yeah, I always use masking tape on hooks and the bitter ends of straps. It is amazing how low stick masking tape will keep a hook from unhooking if it gets a slack moment.
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Let me just go ahead and apologize for this .
"You ain't nuthin but a hound dog" .
Just couldn't help myself :embarrassed:
No worries Dusty,,I knew I had it coming.
Very nice looking Norge by the way!
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A wheel chock is a great option especially loading and lashing down by yourself but not a necessity. Another welcome addition unless using wrap around hand guards is a Canyon Dancer. It slides over the grips and give you a place to hook the tie down straps keeping the hooks and metal parts of the ratchet strap away from the tank and other painted surfaces.
Another bit of advice is when ratcheting down the straps the idea is not to see how tight you can get them totally compressing the suspension. Tie straps need only be tight enough to support the bike from either swaying L/R or back and forth. I have sold bikes and watched guy use 6 or 8 straps compressing the daylight out of he suspension and making the bike an integral part of the truck. All of it was overkill and bad for the suspension. With a proper wheel chock, a Canyon Dancer and two straps compressing the front suspension maybe a 1/3rd of the way is all you need.
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I just use soft loops on the bike and then attach the ratchet hook to the other end of the soft loop.
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/34477/i/steadymate-soft-loops
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Loop strap extenders help with tieing down a bike for transport. Don't have or use a wheel chock. I can see the positive uses for them. I would roll the bike in at an angle with the front wheel/tire going into the left front corner (looking from the rear of the truck). Kickstand goes down. 4 straps. 1st strap goes to the left front side. 2nd goes to the right front. Other 2 go to the rear. Crashbar mounts are good. They all get tightened but not were they're compressing the suspension. Tight so that the bike doesn't move. Bike ramp goes in last behind the front tire wedging it in. I use 2 ramps one for the bike and one for me to walk on. Ancra bike tiedowns. Loading sometimes I need help. Unloading is not a problem since the driveway slopes up to the garage.
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Like others have said.... get the chock. I have a Condor I use to do oil changes, etc.
I'm thinking of getting a Chevy Colorado short bed and want to put a smaller bike (250cc - 350cc) in the bed with the rear wheel sitting on the tailgate. Anybody have any pictures of that set-up?
Short bed and tailgate down, no problem. Chock up front, and 4 tiedown straps - 2 up front, and 2 toward the rear. For extra security, put it in gear and run another strap across the rear tire left/right. That's how I do it every time. Bike is slightly to the right in the bed leaving room for my folded ramp, also secured from sliding off with a strap. Piece of cake, especially with a small bike.
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Problem with the sidestand is that it's rigid -- if overloaded it will bend or snap. Unlike the suspension, which still has internal bumpers when snugged down full stroke.
I long ago gave up trying to get bikes into pickup trucks. I can load and unload a receiver-mounted rack by myself in a pinch and with my 100-lb wife pushing it's really really easy.
This is what I bought for the van: http://www.discountramps.com/hitch-mounted-steel-motorcycle-carrier/p/MCC-600/
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Two ramps work better,one for you one for the bike,i usually load mine alone,bike in 1st gear and walk up my own ramp beside it,princess auto has a cheep knock off of the baxley chalk.
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Loaded lots of bikes for years w/o a wheel doo dad, always side stand up, center stand? Hell no. Just 4 tiedowns. Never had a problem. Don't guess a wheel thingy would hurt<shrug>
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I have the cheepo Harbor Freight over-center wheel chock. I mounted that to a set of boards that fit snugly between the wheel wells and the front wall of the bed of the pickup. The device just drops in and out easily and the chock is a big help in stabilizing the tie down process. Nothing permanent involved.
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/wheelchock/MVC-178X.jpg)
(http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t61/pehayes/wheelchock/MVC-177X.jpg)
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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Like Patrick sez. Still only $39. I have two of them in toy hauler.
http://www.harborfreight.com/motorcycle-wheel-chock-69026.html
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Kickstand goes down...
every time i try that someone yells at me...THEY say, (not me I haven't seen it happen) kickstand breaks on the frame mounting point and or it punchs a hole in the floor and then falls over
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another :1: for using a chock. My LeMans did 1,000 miles in my truck bed like this:
(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/timscudder/v11com%20misc%20photos%20posted/IMG_3593.jpg) (http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/timscudder/media/v11com%20misc%20photos%20posted/IMG_3593.jpg.html)
I use a free-standing wheel-chock that holds the bike up by itself (same one I use it in the garage). I secure it in the front of the bed with carabiners and turnbuckles (so the front cannot go side-to-side). As for straps, I use two at the rear to prevent side-to-side movement. Then for added security, I run a strap from the rear of the bike to a hook in the front of the bed (not visible in this picture) - just to be sure it can't shift backwards.
As for loading, I do it by myself with the skinny, folding dirt-bike ramp. But I cheat. I look for an incline, ideally one where I can drop the rear wheels in a gutter as in this photo. When I load it in my sloped driveway, the ramp's incline is very slight. Strap the ramp to the truck - especially when unloading.
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Short bed and tailgate down, no problem. Chock up front, and 4 tiedown straps - 2 up front, and 2 toward the rear. For extra security, put it in gear and run another strap across the rear tire left/right. That's how I do it every time. Bike is slightly to the right in the bed leaving room for my folded ramp, also secured from sliding off with a strap. Piece of cake, especially with a small bike.
Why in gear? If there's any play at all the would repeatedly allow things to bang with every acceleration or braking force no?
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Why in gear? If there's any play at all the would repeatedly allow things to bang with every acceleration or braking force no?
Overkill I know. Makes ME feel warm and fuzzy. I rarely truck my bikes.
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I rarely truck my bikes.
That's probably a good thing as I kinda wonder if you might be doing damage to the driveline.
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Why in gear? If there's any play at all the would repeatedly allow things to bang with every acceleration or braking force no?
If your not using a wheel chock and there's enough play in the straps to allow the bike to move back and forth (even a slight amount) the only thing its going to bang into is the bed and side rail of the truck when it falls over.
Cam3512 is using a wheel chock and 5 straps (3 of which are overkill IMO) I can't imagine anything is moving back and forth.
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If your not using a wheel chock and there's enough play in the straps to allow the bike to move back and forth (even a slight amount) the only thing its going to bang into is the bed and side rail of the truck when it falls over.
Cam3512 is using a wheel chock and 5 straps (3 of which are overkill IMO) I can't imagine anything is moving back and forth.
Perhaps, but seems like an unnecessary risk. Maybe I'm just being overly cautious.
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I have never had any problem with two straps and the front shocks compressed 25-50% and no wheel chock. Of course the wheel chock would prevent the tyre from rubbing a clean spot on the front wall of the truck bed.
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I have never had any problem with two straps and the front shocks compressed 25-50% and no wheel chock. Of course the wheel chock would prevent the tyre from rubbing a clean spot on the front wall of the truck bed.
The wheel chock also keeps the wheel from turning. If for some reason you can't tie to the handlebars, forks or triples and tie only to the frame the front wheel can turn and down goes the bike.
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Depending on the height of your tailgate, 6 feet is a pretty short ramp. My F350's tail gate is 34" off the ground. A 6 foot ram would be a 50% grade, steeper if it has a breakover curve at the top (which would DEFINITELY be needed with a ramp that short).
I have this:
http://www.discountramps.com/black-widow-motorcycle-ramp/p/BW-40-AMR/ (http://www.discountramps.com/black-widow-motorcycle-ramp/p/BW-40-AMR/)
Three piece set of folding rams, 9' long, and 40" wide, assembled. It has a curve for the break over at the top to avoid bottoming, and is plenty wide for both feet to be down to slowly walk the bike down the ramp (while seated on it) using the clutch as a brake (engine off, of course), as the front brake will just slide the wheel, since much of the weight will be on the back wheel when descending the ramp backwards.
Loading, you can ride up, nailing the brake before hitting the back of the cab, or, if you have good clutch control, and don't mind abusing your clutch, paddle walk up the ramp sliding the clutch.
$349 -- worth every penny. If you scrimp and get a narrow 6 foot ramp, you will regret it.
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Just picked this up two weeks ago, no chock, two ties downs. Drove from San Diego to Phoenix no problem. Have made similar trips with other bikes the same way. The chock is not a bad idea, but I have found it to not be necessary. This F150 wasn't mine and only had the 5.5' bed as well
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cumCqa/115641_1.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cumCqa)
l.
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Just picked this up two weeks ago, no chock, two ties downs. Drove from San Diego to Phoenix no problem. Have made similar trips with other bikes the same way. The chock is not a bad idea, but I have found it to not be necessary. This F150 wasn't mine and only had the 5.5' bed as well
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cumCqa/115641_1.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cumCqa)
l.
WOW, you might have dodged a bullet, were both those straps on the front?
Depending on the front suspension (and the amount the truck itself bounces) I've seen bikes tied down with just 2 straps loosen, cock sideways (when the rear moves) and go down in the trailer or truck.
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WOW, you might have dodged a bullet, were both those straps on the front?
Depending on the front suspension (and the amount the truck itself bounces) I've seen bikes tied down with just 2 straps loosen, cock sideways (when the rear moves) and go down in the trailer or truck.
With just two straps in the front I have hit a horrid RR track and walked the rear wheel all the way over to the side of the bed and the front was fine and the bike stayed up. So log as the suspension is tensioned enough so the two straps don't loosen and the tyre is tight against the bed wall all will be well.
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Who wants to half-ass it and even have to worry about that! What, to save a few bucks on a chock and a couple more straps?
When I was loading my V7 Special into my pickup truck the day I bought it, the dealer told me how another customer recently LOST his Ducati OUT of the back of a truck due to improper, half-assed tie downs and no chock. When I say "LOST", I mean it flew right out of the truck bed onto the highway.
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With just two straps in the front I have hit a horrid RR track and walked the rear wheel all the way over to the side of the bed and the front was fine and the bike stayed up. So log as the suspension is tensioned enough so the two straps don't loosen and the tyre is tight against the bed wall all will be well.
You can have all the positive outcomes in the world, but it only takes one negative to change an opinion.
Like I said, I've seen it happen to people before. One example, two friends (professional truckers used to checking loads) got to their destination with an enclosed trailer and found one bike on top of the other and realized that's how it happened. Might have something to do with the suspension on the trailer vs. most trucks, but still if the rear can move, the bike can come down.
Like Cam says, why risk it?
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(http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo165/1000s1991/Vacationshots008.jpg) (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/1000s1991/media/Vacationshots008.jpg.html)
(http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo165/1000s1991/Vacationshots010.jpg) (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/1000s1991/media/Vacationshots010.jpg.html)
'97 Daytona RS and '97 1100 Sporti on the wayfrom Torrance/Signal Hill to San Diego to be shipped out to Hilo, Hawaii. No chocks. Strapped down. 4 straps each always. Short bed, extend cab truck. Ramp to load at Ed Milich's house and Mark's MG Classics to loading dock at Pasha's warehouse.
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You can have all the positive outcomes in the world, but it only takes one negative to change an opinion.
Like I said, I've seen it happen to people before. One example, two friends (professional truckers used to checking loads) got to their destination with an enclosed trailer and found one bike on top of the other and realized that's how it happened. Might have something to do with the suspension on the trailer vs. most trucks, but still if the rear can move, the bike can come down.
Like Cam says, why risk it?
I'll stick with what I said. Regardless of what the back wheel does if the front wheel is secured properly with two straps and the suspension is properly tensioned the bike is going to stay upright. If the wheel turned either the straps were not installed properly or the suspension was not compressed sufficiently or the tire was not braced to a forward wall.
OK, I'm done.
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I'll stick with what I said. Regardless of what the back wheel does if the front wheel is secured properly with two straps and the suspension is properly tensioned the bike is going to stay upright. If the wheel turned either the straps were not installed properly or the suspension was not compressed sufficiently or the tire was not braced to a forward wall.
OK, I'm done.
At what point is the suspension compressed so far it threatens fork seals?
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At what point is the suspension compressed so far it threatens fork seals?
Isn't that rather how quickly is the suspension compressed? If your forks cannot handle full compression without damage then you need to either get new forks or have someone ride ahead of you looking for potholes.
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Isn't that rather how quickly is the suspension compressed? If your forks cannot handle full compression without damage then you need to either get new forks or have someone ride ahead of you looking for potholes.
Or is it an issue of taking a harder hit (momentum/mass of truck moving upward) when the forks where already mostly compressed? I suspect the forces might be greater than a single pothole while riding and braking. And potentially could happen repeatedly over a given stretch of road.
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Or is it an issue of taking a harder hit (momentum/mass of truck moving upward) when the forks where already mostly compressed? I suspect the forces might be greater than a single pothole while riding and braking. And potentially could happen repeatedly over a given stretch of road.
With the suspension of the truck any shock or energy is going to be slower than for instance if you hit a pothole or climb a curb on your bike.
The fork seals are under no more stress at full compression than they are at rest. All they do is seal dust out and oil in. They don't seal any pressure.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSUc95xWliVcp2FC0gKia4fx2GQQm-OkBswj7XQHunvgPtfEpA6)
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With the suspension of the truck any shock or energy is going to be slower than for instance if you hit a pothole or climb a curb on your bike.
The fork seals are under no more stress at full compression than they are at rest. All they do is seal dust out and oil in. They don't seal any pressure.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSUc95xWliVcp2FC0gKia4fx2GQQm-OkBswj7XQHunvgPtfEpA6)
So it's coincidence when I've seen fork seals fail immediately after trailering? (Honestly asking). You're claiming the whole don't fully compress the suspension when trailering is myth?
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I'd say the OP got enough advice, good and bad, to make an educated decision about buying a chock.
His decision.
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Who wants to half-ass it and even have to worry about that! What, to save a few bucks on a chock and a couple more straps?
:1:
You can have all the positive outcomes in the world, but it only takes one negative to change an opinion.
.....
Like Cam says, why risk it?
THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Just my 2 cents, don't cheap out on the ramp. Check the rating on the HF unit and you may find that the bike and a person will overload the unit.
I bought 2 ramps from Cycle Gear ( yeah still made in China, I know ), on sale, the wide one and a narrow one, I walk up the narrow one next to the bike.
I also have a friend standing by, if nothing else just moral support.
kjf
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I'd say the OP got enough advice, good and bad, to make an educated decision about buying a chock.
His decision.
I am looking for a used enclosed trailer. Or build a 8 foot long ramp in two 2 foot sections to clamp together.
Thanks everybody for the advice. I will get a wheel chock.
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With the suspension of the truck any shock or energy is going to be slower than for instance if you hit a pothole or climb a curb on your bike.
The fork seals are under no more stress at full compression than they are at rest. All they do is seal dust out and oil in. They don't seal any pressure.
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSUc95xWliVcp2FC0gKia4fx2GQQm-OkBswj7XQHunvgPtfEpA6)
Not being an expert on suspension, just someone who has had to fine tune a few front ends:
I'm pretty sure the seals are actually sealing in pressure too. When the forks compress, at least with a metering rod design, the air gap gets compressed. This air compression gives variable resistance....more resistance as the gas is compressed more. Without the air gap the forks would reach full compression in a much more violent manner and run the risk of damage. Your diagram does not show the top of the fork tube but I bet it is capped off with an air tight seal. I know mine are.
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IIRC If the fork tubes of the bike you're transporting has conventional legs then compression is a factor. If you're transporting a damper cartridge Guzzi then not so much a problem. However cinching down a front end of a bike is necessary but to totally collapse the front end isn't.
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Not being an expert on suspension, just someone who has had to fine tune a few front ends:
I'm pretty sure the seals are actually sealing in pressure too. When the forks compress, at least with a metering rod design, the air gap gets compressed. This air compression gives variable resistance....more resistance as the gas is compressed more. Without the air gap the forks would reach full compression in a much more violent manner and run the risk of damage. Your diagram does not show the top of the fork tube but I bet it is capped off with an air tight seal. I know mine are.
If you look at the diagram the volume of the pieces inside has not changed, they just changed position. The shock works by compressing a spring and sliding the damper valve through a viscous liquid.
I know in the 70's it was popular to try to improve pre-load by jerry-rigging air shocks by drilling and tapping a Schrader valve in to the tube plug at the top. The results were less than stellar.
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:1: The fork seals would blow since the system wasn't designed to be air forks. Even the ones that were designed were marginal at best.
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Enclosed Trailer - I have a toy-hauler, also use a wheel-chock in it. One chock - with carabiners and turnbuckles - and multiple uses. I do not compress the front-end when I use the chock.
Fork seals- I think there's a reason to be concerned about fork seals if you compress the front end for the ride. I don't use the chock for my dirt bike - just strap down the handle-bars. I (and others I ride with) found that seals tend to go out prematurely with that practice. Therefore, I bought a special block (with a Husky "H" on it) to put between front tire and lower triple clamp. A lot of people use these blocks when hauling dirt bikes, some even call them seal savers.
Bottom line - it's a good idea to haul your bike if circumstances make riding it impossible or inconvenient. Take a bike with you whenever you can. It makes every trip more fun.