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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dean Rose on September 14, 2016, 07:39:52 PM
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http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20160912-the-treacherous-road-with-318-turns
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Everyone should go there and stay away from nw Arkansas and sw Missouri much better over there. Yep, much better.
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The Dragon is a special place. There's no road like it anywhere. I know a couple of roads in Arkansas that I enjoy almost as much. Some in Black Hills, Colo and New Mexico.
But there is only one Deal's Gap.
(yes it's too crowded in the summer on weekends)
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One of the most memorable rides I have been on is the Kancamagus Highway, just beautiful and fun.
http://www.kancamagushighway.com/
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Interesting article, thanks for posting. I haven't ridden that road, but I've been hearing a lot about it lately. It's starting to make me think of a Yogi Berra-ism "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded." At least I don't feel like going there on a weekend.
And maybe it's a matter of perspective, but 11 miles of twisties... so what? Are the roads in the Eastern US so boring that 11 miles of twisties are special? I'm not trying to be a downer here... but go almost anywhere in the Rockies or the Sierra Nevadas and you can find roads that are at least equally challenging - and they have massive elevation changes - and they go on for 50 or 100 miles. I've looked at "The Dragon" on a map - and used the same scale to look at roads I know in the Western mountains - the Dragon looks like a fine road, but it would just be a short, pleasant section in the West.
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Interesting article, thanks for posting. I haven't ridden that road, but I've been hearing a lot about it lately. It's starting to make me think of a Yogi Berra-ism "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded." At least I don't feel like going there on a weekend.
And maybe it's a matter of perspective, but 11 miles of twisties... so what? Are the roads in the Eastern US so boring that 11 miles of twisties are special? I'm not trying to be a downer here... but go almost anywhere in the Rockies or the Sierra Nevadas and you can find roads that are at least equally challenging - and they have massive elevation changes - and they go on for 50 or 100 miles. I've looked at "The Dragon" on a map - and used the same scale to look at roads I know in the Western mountains - the Dragon looks like a fine road, but it would just be a short, pleasant section in the West.
There's a whooooooole lot of marketing going on .... it almost wouldn't matter what it actually IS any more; but in order to be real and have bragging rights and be "in", you HAVE to go there, and get the T-shirt. That's what I hear, anyhow.
Sort of how you can know that is to see how the surrounding Tourist Bureaus have reacted. Now every county from Beckley to Gainesville has a "Back of the Dragon" or "Claw of the Dragon" or "Devil's Triangle" or "Snake" or "Diamondback" or "Rattlesnake" or some other reptile that you must go and ride and get the T-shirt.
Sort of nice to be a major economic force in the world today - everyone's after us!
Lannis
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Interesting article, thanks for posting. I haven't ridden that road, but I've been hearing a lot about it lately. It's starting to make me think of a Yogi Berra-ism "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded." At least I don't feel like going there on a weekend.
And maybe it's a matter of perspective, but 11 miles of twisties... so what? Are the roads in the Eastern US so boring that 11 miles of twisties are special? I'm not trying to be a downer here... but go almost anywhere in the Rockies or the Sierra Nevadas and you can find roads that are at least equally challenging - and they have massive elevation changes - and they go on for 50 or 100 miles. I've looked at "The Dragon" on a map - and used the same scale to look at roads I know in the Western mountains - the Dragon looks like a fine road, but it would just be a short, pleasant section in the West.
well you took the proverbial words right out of my mouth ...scud.
and i do know this ...a great road i think has to give variety and as you stated elevation change is a whole different challenge both up and down ..for me i like fast sweepers thrown in here and there as well as the tighter stuff .. we have a road here in British Columbia Canada , its called the Monashee hwy 6 from Fauquier to Lumby
111 km of some of the best and most technical riding you could hope for and you can ride it clean for the most part.
i would love to ride the Dragon but if its full of bikes , i would have to pass
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...or some other reptile that you must go and ride and get the T-shirt.
Sort of nice to be a major economic force in the world today - everyone's after us!
Lannis
So it's just cold-blooded marketing? Sorry, couldn't resist.
I'm sure it's gorgeous, and if I were nearby with a spare day, I'd probably rent a motorcycle and check it out. But I try to avoid crowds like that - the more hype there is, the less I want to go.
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Rode the Dragon years ago , it wasn't famous at the time . Quite honestly the Talimena DR in Southeasten Oklahoma is more fun . 54 miles from end to end , high speed and low speed corners, good elevation changes , usually very little traffic , very light po po presence , and great places to stop and view the scenery .
Everyone should go there and stay away from nw Arkansas and sw Missouri much better over there. Yep, much better.
Well you are obviously correct John , I take back my comments on the Talimena DR , horrible awful place , cops everywhere , incredibly boring . Sheesh , temporary insanity must have struck again .
Dusty
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I really enjoy riding the Dragon. That 11 mile stretch has no side roads or driveways connected to it plus there are numerous other very nice riding roads in the area.
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I really enjoy riding the Dragon. That 11 mile stretch has no side roads or driveways connected to it plus there are numerous other very nice riding roads in the area.
Those are great features. :thumb: 2,000 miles from me though.
The best roads are the ones you actually ride. :bike-037:
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I saw this on the BBC site, and it didn't excite me enough to post a reference. A pleasant little article, but nothing we haven't seen.
I tend to agree with Scud and Keener. I've done the Dragon, but I can think of dozens of roads in the west (US and Canada) that are more fun, more challenging, and way less crowded. For technical, perhaps the Old Mackenzie Highway in Oregon; for sweepers, the Lolo Pass; for sheer pleasure, the Beartooth outside Yellowstone. Of course, for sheer length (outside of tourist season) there's CA-1.
Even in the east, the roads around Dahlonega GA were more interesting to me than the Dragon.
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Its a BBC article, I'm in the UK and can't read it as its part of there international service :laugh:
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Rode the tail of the dragon a few years ago an it was fun. I wouldn't go out of my way to ride it again but if I was in the area I'd give it another whirl.
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Yeah, whatever.
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"You call some place paradise, kiss it goodbye"
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The one nice thing about the Dragon is all the wonderful roads you have to navigate in order to get to it. Just pick any direction and you wont be disappointed.
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And maybe it's a matter of perspective, but 11 miles of twisties... so what?
This. Yeah, I've "done" the dragon a few times, but it's just not in the same league as some mountain roads in the west, IMHO.
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It's a cool stretch of road and the Tail is a nice little hangout spot especially if you've just come up 28. I think the most dangerous aspect of that ride has become the sports car clubs that have started showing up. They use all sorts of spotters to clear the road before a pack of them go flying through there. Last time I was there one of the Nissan's was sideways in a ditch.
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Everyone should go there and stay away from nw Arkansas and sw Missouri much better over there. Yep, much better.
I'd advise staying away from the whole border of Oklahoma and Arkansas as well as the North Cascades over Washington Pass, :grin:
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I agree that there is a lot of hype about the Dragon and having ridden it many times, I confess it isn't really all that much fun for me. I prefer a little higher speed corners, but to each his own. What I love about the Dragon is that it is a magnet for riders from all over the world and a great opportunity to meet and talk to international riders. I look forward to hanging out at Deal's Gap and socializing more than the actual ride of the Dragon. Having said that, it is a bucket list item and worth doing at least once. Oh, and there are countless GREAT roads to explore in the area.
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Everyone should go there and stay away from nw Arkansas and sw Missouri much better over there. Yep, much better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWGAdzn5_KU
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I posted it because BBC made note of it,please 'go ride it instead of the lousy roads we have here in SW Virginia/West Virginia.
Dean
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Everyone should go there and stay away from nw Arkansas and sw Missouri much better over there. Yep, much better.
:1: Yep, avoid SW Missouri and NW Arkansas at all costs !! Went through there this past weekend, nothing to see at all -- :evil:
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Having ridden the "Dragon" about a dozen times on my old K75 and a 900SS Duc. I can say it was more work than fun, now the same road on my V7C is pure joy. Feather lite handling and smooth midrange torque make it a snap. Personally, I think Wolf Pen is more picturesque and just as twisty, although a little short.
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Interesting article, thanks for posting. I haven't ridden that road, but I've been hearing a lot about it lately. It's starting to make me think of a Yogi Berra-ism "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded." At least I don't feel like going there on a weekend.
And maybe it's a matter of perspective, but 11 miles of twisties... so what? Are the roads in the Eastern US so boring that 11 miles of twisties are special? I'm not trying to be a downer here... but go almost anywhere in the Rockies or the Sierra Nevadas and you can find roads that are at least equally challenging - and they have massive elevation changes - and they go on for 50 or 100 miles. I've looked at "The Dragon" on a map - and used the same scale to look at roads I know in the Western mountains - the Dragon looks like a fine road, but it would just be a short, pleasant section in the West.
Except it's not just 11 miles of road; it's actually nearly 4000 square miles of roads that would take weeks and weeks and weeks for you to ride them all. The Dragon is in the middle of 4 national forests that all meld together in one mass and dips into 4 different states.
(http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc57/bpreynolds/image_zpsksqbv6wu.png) (http://s212.photobucket.com/user/bpreynolds/media/image_zpsksqbv6wu.png.html)
I've been a lot of beautiful places in my life here in the US and overseas, but I'm not exagerrating when I say it is the largest and most vast amount of quality riding roads I've ever seen. Lakes upon lakes upon lakes, vistas upon vistas. So yes, it is one of the greatest places ro ride in the States in my estimation. I've been twice in the last year and probably covered 1500 miles or more just in the area and haven't even touched it.
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=80097.0
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A really big :1: on that post. One of our best trips we rode from Gatlinburg to Cherokee to Fontana and on to the Dragon. Didn't even know the Dragon existed at the time. Had we stopped for every photo opportunity we would still be there 15 years later.
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I really enjoy riding the Dragon. That 11 mile stretch has no side roads or driveways connected to it plus there are numerous other very nice riding roads in the area.
well said, I don't know a stretch of road anywhere to compare it too. And Deal's Gap and Hwy 28 to Highlands and Cherohala Skyway are just the icing on the cake.
I've ridden all over Arkansas, a bit in southern Mo, Colo and NM, Talemena Dr, none can compare. But it's too commercial and it's just ruined on the weekends.
(https://g2.img-dpreview.com/F27CD7490F0D476BADB5B720D956B9E8.jpg)
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that's the deal, its too crowded for me :sad:
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I could get really enthusiastic about riding that whole region. In fact, when I looked at The Dragon on a map I did think - "there's roads in them there hills..." IMHO the article gave too much attention to one stretch of road. Maybe it's a need to focus on a highlight or destination, vs a total experience or a journey.
It's true where I live too. For example, there's a great road up and down Palomar Mountain, which just gets too crowded and I avoid it because of all the racing that goes on (especially weekends). But there are loads of great roads in the area.
I have not yet met a national forest (or national park) that I didn't love. :thumb: I am positively itching to get back into the Sequoia National Forest.
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It's a great road to get to better roads, Hwy 28 being my favorite.
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I ride the dragon quite often as I only live 65 miles from the lake side of it. I use it as a cut thru to some awesome roads in NC.
if you folks want some really good riding in the Vir, NC, Ga , Tn area I highly recommend you ordering the 9 maps set from America Rides Maps. The man who puts thee together is a Motorcyclist, Wayne does nothing but ride and verify each and every road on his maps. he grades each and every road and on the back of the maps he points out gas, lunch set seeing and other stops. Also a bit out the some of the roads.
the Dragon is a named road is all and a lot of folks have to get that t-shirt which is fine.
I didn't really care for the way the article was written. Its not a race track and it is a good ride if done in moderation and control.
Just don't pay attention to all the folks taking pics on the sides.
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It's a great road to get to better roads, Hwy 28 being my favorite.
123 to Deal's Gap to 28 to Highlands....best route ever IMO.
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State Route 191 in eastern Arizona, formally SR 666 which gave it the nick name of The Devil's Highway. I have yet to ride it, but many friends have. Long, iffy surface quality, reducing radius curves, probably open range. Did I mention it was LONG? :D
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMbomNBNQG0
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There is a 12 mile or so stretch of highway 82 in Oklahoma that runs between Lequire and Red Oak. It bisects the San Bois Mountains (OK you denizens of mountain states , just hills) , and doesn't look like much on the map . But , the elevation changes are interesting ,and several long sweepers that can be run at 100 MPH if you have the stones . It was built just a few years ago , it meets modern Federal spec , meaning long sight lines , wide shoulders , and climbing lanes . There are some amazing views as a bonus . There are lots of good roads in that part of SE Okieland , what sets this part of 82 apart are the long sight lines , most of the roads in this area are running thru National Forest or Weyerhaeuser land where the trees are bordering the road .
Dusty
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82 is the road where I discovered I chunked the rear tire on my EV when we had breakfast in Stigler. We were pushing it pretty good 85+.
Probably chunked it on way to Talihina the day before since the bike handled pretty weird.
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I rode the Dragon last month and it is a great road.
We also found rt 40 South of Boone mills in NC
new pavement No debris on the road surface properly cambered turns and15 mph switchbacks
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The thing with roads like this is in reality if your there for carving corners and "the twisties" then they are a usually mass of blind corners with tightening radia and no runoff. Throw in the regular lunatic on a bike, the dreamy/incompetent car driver, tour buses, crap on the road, more lunatics on bikes and cars and its all just a bit of a wank.
Better off in the car, less drama.
The holy "Great Ocean Road" in my state is another one, chock full of the aforementioned plus land slides and changeable weather and its just a waste of a day that you could be on Phillip Island Race track.
Seriously, for anyone at any age and level of ability once you've done a track day these type of roads lose a lot of their appeal.
Ciao
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You can see all the way through every turn on the Dragon most are constant radius and positive camber. every one is on it for pleasure so they are paying attention.
It really is a rolling amusement park
I did get stuck behind a tricycle parade but that's ok because I just got to the end turned around and did it again
And they take your photo! Just like an amusement park.
Then the cherahola skyway!!!!
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I ride the dragon quite often as I only live 65 miles from the lake side of it. I use it as a cut thru to some awesome roads in NC.
if you folks want some really good riding in the Vir, NC, Ga , Tn area I highly recommend you ordering the 9 maps set from America Rides Maps. The man who puts thee together is a Motorcyclist, Wayne does nothing but ride and verify each and every road on his maps. he grades each and every road and on the back of the maps he points out gas, lunch set seeing and other stops. Also a bit out the some of the roads.
the Dragon is a named road is all and a lot of folks have to get that t-shirt which is fine.
I didn't really care for the way the article was written. Its not a race track and it is a good ride if done in moderation and control.
Just don't pay attention to all the folks taking pics on the sides.
:1: On the America Rides maps. I've used them for both my visits to the area and been amazed at how thorough they are.
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You can see all the way through every turn on the Dragon most are constant radius and positive camber. every one is on it for pleasure so they are paying attention.
It really is a rolling amusement park
I did get stuck behind a tricycle parade but that's ok because I just got to the end turned around and did it again
And they take your photo! Just like an amusement park.
Then the cherahola skyway!!!!
I agree with the constant radius and positive camber part, not so much being able to see through every turn. The big plus that a few here have already mentioned is the fact that there are no driveways or other access roads to deal with over the 11 miles.
Its just one road among thousands of miles of great roads in the Appalachians and Smokies. Hard to name any of them the best.
Pete
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The thing with roads like this is in reality if your there for carving corners and "the twisties" then they are a usually mass of blind corners with tightening radia and no runoff. Throw in the regular lunatic on a bike, the dreamy/incompetent car driver, tour buses, crap on the road, more lunatics on bikes and cars and its all just a bit of a wank.
Better off in the car, less drama.
The holy "Great Ocean Road" in my state is another one, chock full of the aforementioned plus land slides and changeable weather and its just a waste of a day that you could be on Phillip Island Race track.
Seriously, for anyone at any age and level of ability once you've done a track day these type of roads lose a lot of their appeal.
Ciao
The beauty of the Dragon is that the road is smooth, has excellent site lines and no intersecting side roads or driveways. The big problem is traffic and folks riding beyond their ability. It's tight with only one small little straight section that you can obtain highway speeds or greater.
When I ride the Dragon, I have to ride it one time slowly to pick up a rhythm. Then I when I go back around I am more in sync and comfortable.
Arkansas Ozarks has good site lines but even my favorite roads have cross traffic and driveways. Unfortunately many of the roads were paved during the '90s and early '00s and are starting to deteriorate.
Unfortunately, eastern OK has similar terrain but even the Talemina Dr has lots of traffic, poor site lines and old pavement. Hwy 62 east of Talequah is perhaps the best OK Ozark road IMO. I took the road to Spavinaw last week on my way to Gary's campout and it's a challenge. I did over cook one corner and crossed the yellow, the first time I can remember doing it on the Greenie. Again, site lines are notoriously bad on that road and lots of gravel too. For a real challenge try hwy 127 west of Jay OK, talk about a roller coaster, it's pretty dangerous for the hills, gravel, traffic and site lines, perhaps that's why it's a challenge?
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I posted it because BBC made note of it,please 'go ride it instead of the lousy roads we have here in SW Virginia/West Virginia.
Dean
Dean, you want me to stay away from 39 ....... and 250? :grin:
Bob
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Dean, you want me to stay away from 39 ....... and 250? :grin:
Bob
Yeah and sweet 16 too.
Dean
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There's a whooooooole lot of marketing going on .... it almost wouldn't matter what it actually IS any more; but in order to be real and have bragging rights and be "in", you HAVE to go there, and get the T-shirt. That's what I hear, anyhow.
Sort of how you can know that is to see how the surrounding Tourist Bureaus have reacted. Now every county from Beckley to Gainesville has a "Back of the Dragon" or "Claw of the Dragon" or "Devil's Triangle" or "Snake" or "Diamondback" or "Rattlesnake" or some other reptile that you must go and ride and get the T-shirt.
Sort of nice to be a major economic force in the world today - everyone's after us!
Lannis
Two Devils Backbones within an hour of my home in Indiana. Plus a Honey Run and Whiskey Run. The roads around my home follow the buffalo migration trails thru the hills in Southern Indiana.
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I've ridden in Southern Indiana and there are some good roads there for sure. :thumb:
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I lived in Knoxville, TN for eight years and had ample opportunities to visit Deal's Gap. It is fantastic on a Tuesday morning...beautiful and challenging in ways that are hard to find out West. However, you could say the same about riding many parts of the Appalachians. It is lush...almost dark in places and the air has a soft quality that only a little humidity can deliver.
I also lived upstate in New York...another series of awesome riding roads. New Mexico has some unbelievable areas, too; and Idaho, Washington, Montana, Colorado, Arizona, Pennsylvania, ad infinitum. Face it, my fellow Americans: we have some extraordinary places to ride in the USA...and many are remote and lightly used. It's a great time and place to be into motorcycles...
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The Dragon is overrated. What!! that is blasphemy right? No it isn't. I've never been on it but I have spent enough time in the roads in far western N/c and too know there are plenty of roads like the dragon. Maybe not 318 curves in 11 miles but gobs of incredible roads that are just as much fun with a lot less traffic.
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However, you could say the same about riding many parts of the Appalachians. It is lush...almost dark in places and the air has a soft quality that only a little humidity can deliver.
:drool: Yes. It's not just about the road, it's the whole experience. This is also how I felt riding through the higher elevations in the Sequoias - but mix in the majesty of the worlds biggest trees. But then at lower elevations it thins out and transitions to desert.