Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: canuck750 on September 16, 2016, 06:08:33 PM
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Finishing off a weeks ride through Arizona and New Mexico with my two sons, 150 miles out of Phoenix and my older son riding a bit back of me and younger son is out of view. I double back to find him at the side of a road, pulled into a gas station on an Indian Reserve 40 miles east of Globe Arizona. Bike just lost power and died, cranks over but will no start, not even a sputter, Gas - check, pull the tank to check the spark - good strong spark. And then I notice the oil site glass on the side of the engine (KLR 650), its broken and I can see a trail of oil on the rear foot peg and swing arm. I popped out the broken glass, placed a dime into the recess and epoxied up the site glass hole, then I filled the crankcase with oil and crossed my fingers.... nothing.
After a two hour wait, and a big tow bill (thank god AMA covered the first 100 miles), it was left at a small repair shop in Phoenix. The shop tore down the top end, two burnt cams, the head is shot due to the cam races being destroyed, piston, small end, barrel and oil pump no better, basically destroyed the motor. I have found a used motor, not cheap but low miles, the bike is worth saving. I will need to come back down to Phoenix to get the bike, the one bright spot. At least we were on the last day of what was a great trip, no one got hurt and we have another story to tell. I have fixed snapped clutch and throttle cables, bent forks, broken spokes, snapped chains and flat tires and still got back on the road. Even bypassed a punctured radiator on a Husky to limp out of the bush once.
I have had KLR's for 10 years, and not once have I had a break down I could not fix on the side of the road, to loose one to a stone, what are the odds of that!!
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So a stone broke the glass on the side of the engine? Is that possible?
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Yep. the site glass sits just above the skid plate, my guess is a passing vehicle lifted up a stone, it probably struck the brake lever tip and ricocheted into the site glass (it is tempered glass) and just like that at 70 mph the oil (there is only 2.5 litres) pumps out of the crank case. My son felt no seizure as there was none, just the rapid deterioration of the whole top end until the cams, valves, etc... were chewed up and the compression fell rapidly until the engine died.
I have dropped KLR's so many times in the mud and sand, all over the place and not once has anything like this happened. Other stuff breaks, like levers, foot pegs, typical dirt bike damage.
The repair shop specializes in dirt bikes and they have seen a couple of these failures in the past. A taller skid plate is the only protection.
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Or epoxy a disc of clear acrylic over the sight glass?
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I'll bet the glass just was weak and broke on its own
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when you started out about a KLR I was ready to say get a DR... but it has the same type sight glass.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-6MqL2LH/0/M/IMG_2115-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-6MqL2LH/A)
the CS is the best piece of bling I've gotten for it..
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I'll bet the glass just was weak and broke on its own
Could be, I learned a long time ago from a Pittsburgh Corning glass engineer that all tempered glass will eventually fail, but most pieces of tempered glass will last for 100's of years. Tempered glass fails due to impurities in the glass, the surface tension the temper process induces and stress on the glass, such as being struck by a stone, vibration etc...
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Shot at by pellet gun? slingshot? some other nefarious device as you went by?
An unlucky hit could do it.
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Shot at by pellet gun? slingshot? some other nefarious device as you went by?
An unlucky hit could do it.
Jim , any chance you had a , er , colorful youth ? :evil:
Dusty
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Sort of, I discovered explosives at a young age. Some of the stuff we did for fun .are now called federal felonies.
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So the problem with this bike is No OIL PRESSURE WARNING light?
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So the problem with this bike is No OIL PRESSURE WARNING light?
Yep, that would sure help!! I hadn't thought of that, it should be pretty simple to connect a sensor and fit an idiot light to the dash pod.
I have an oil pressure gauge on my Eldorado and it provides a level of assurance that I appreciate having, same for the voltage gauge, it's nice to know the lubrication is at pressure and the battery is charging. I wish gauges these two gauges were fitted on all of the machines I have owned,
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It sounds to me like the bike was ridden until it was destroyed from lack of oil...There are warning signs like a reduction in power, engine noise and heat.....This may or may not have been noticed by the rider.. Or the damage was done so quickly it made no difference what the rider did...
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I'll tel ya, I've been spending the last coupe days adjusting the valves on my Bandit. A comedy of errors.
first, I bought spark plugs for a 600 bandit. They are smaller hex. Duh.
Then I got it together and it was puking oil from the #2 sparkplug. It's a "mickey mouse" gasket. The valve cover will comeback off. Also, the plug wires have lost their numbers so now I am guessing which wire goes to which cylinder.
Called a Bandit buddy in Texas and he gave me the right order. It's great talking to folks I haven't seen in a year or more. Trying to get him to come to Dusty's campout.
Gotten plenty of use of the old torquer. 80k miles on it. maybe 4 of 16 valves were tight.
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It sounds to me like the bike was ridden until it was destroyed from lack of oil...There are warning signs like a reduction in power, engine noise and heat.....This may or may not have been noticed by the rider.. Or the damage was done so quickly it made no difference what the rider did...
[/quotes
A broken site glass leaves a big hole in a crank case combine that with 70 mph speeds and the oil exits in a big hury. On top of that air temperature was close to 100F and my older son does not have a lot of experience. I am thankful the piston did not seize and cause a lock up. I went to the shop and looked at all the damage, ugly. I have seized a couple two stroke dirt bikes way back when, holed a piston on a RD 350, but this was in a whole new category of Oh Shit!!
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Makes me think if they can wire a light to indicate oil pressure loss, why can't they rig it to stop the motor?
Or does that just make too much sense?
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Oil Pressure Is Sometimes Low When You Initially Start The Engine And The Light Comes On Momentarily. Wiring It To Cut The Engine Would Make It Cut When You Are Trying To Start The Bike
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So the problem with this bike is No OIL PRESSURE WARNING light?
The oil presure light saved my engine when the crank case plug fell out (at 80mph) after I purchase the bike. Sure saved my bacon. I hate to think what a new engine would have cost for my Breva 750. I now safety wire all plugs on the engine. And if I had a sight glass, I'd put some kind of screen over it. Jürgen
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A sight glass seems pretty silly to me. "So lets add a piece of GLASS to our engine so we can see how much oil is in there". Isn't that what a dip stick is for?
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A sight glass seems pretty silly to me. "So lets add a piece of GLASS to our engine so we can see how much oil is in there". Isn't that what a dip stick is for?
Unless you have a 2007 Norge...(http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s180/ndicroce/emoticons/flush.gif) (http://s152.photobucket.com/user/ndicroce/media/emoticons/flush.gif.html)
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A sight glass seems pretty silly to me. "So lets add a piece of GLASS to our engine so we can see how much oil is in there". Isn't that what a dip stick is for?
This is the only time I've heard of site glass failure. They are common on lots of bikes. Great to check the oil level any time you're parked.
And great to get an accurate fill when you change oil :thumb:
Other than this, the only negative I've ever heard regarding oil windows is when Slick 50 and those teflon oil additives became popular, these additives paint the window black so you could never check the oil level again.
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This is the only time I've heard of site glass failure. They are common on lots of bikes. Great to check the oil level any time you're parked.
And great to get an accurate fill when you change oil :thumb:
Other than this, the only negative I've ever heard regarding oil windows is when Slick 50 and those teflon oil additives became popular, these additives paint the window black so you could never check the oil level again.
Really didn't like the one on my R1150RT - almost impossible to read.
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That's 2 dead engines from oil pressure in recent months on this forum. A V11 Sport whose oil filter backed off - and the warning light was out. And now this one.
I've had a few bikes with oil sight glasses. I liked them on the street BMWs - and only a low-probability incident (such a the ricocheting-rock hypothesis tendered here) could cause a problem. They seem a bigger potential risk on dirt bikes that are likely to be tipped over regularly. My Husqvarna has only a weep-hole plug. You fill the oil until it comes out the weep-hole - then screw in the plug. Pain in the ass just to check oil level - but it's not gonna be the cause of a failure.
I would certainly look into adding a low-pressure light and/or an oil pressure gauge to the new motor. Some electronic pressure gauges give you both: they have programmable warning lights on the gauge face, so you can set it to light up at any pressure you want.
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Really didn't like the one on my R1150RT - almost impossible to read.
Even more so with a layer of road grime that was very difficult to clean off while on a road trip. Factor in geezer eyesight and, well, ... :rolleyes:
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Even more so with a layer of road grime that was very difficult to clean off while on a road trip. Factor in geezer eyesight and, well, ... :rolleyes:
:thumb: :thumb:
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Really didn't like the one on my R1150RT - almost impossible to read.
I was riding my R1150RT when this happened. It's very hard to read the damn site glass on the RT shadowed by the plastic side fairing, covered with road grime and without my reading glasses! Even trying to read the damn thing on level ground, on the side stand with a flashlight is less than ideal. I change my oil every 2000 miles on the RT, have for ten years so I am reasonably confident that it doesn't ever drop below minimum.
I wish every manufacturer would just install a dip stick! Problem is the KLR fills directly over the clutch plates and the RT into the left hand cylinder head. It can't take too much to add a dip stick that reaches into the depths of the sump.
And on a less than happy note I got the repair estimate for new parts.... $3500 + labour, so that is not going to happen, I found a used low mile engine on Ebay for $1850 including shipping to Phoenix, add in the initial diagnostic and then the swap and I am into this thing for $2500, to keep an 8 year old KLR on the road, I must be crazy. I just couldn't walk away from a bike I had $5K into, if the failure had happened back home then I could have rebuilt it myself.
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Perhaps it's too late, or I missed something in this thread - but...
1) Can you have the wounded bike shipped home and take your time with it?
2) Have you considered buying another KLR? Maybe you can find a crashed or sunburned low-mileage example for cheap. Then you'll get a good engine and heaps of other stuff to keep in reserve or sell.
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Makes me think if they can wire a light to indicate oil pressure loss, why can't they rig it to stop the motor?
Or does that just make too much sense?
No, on this bike they fit a sight glass, nothing wrong with that but they do not fit an oil pressure light.
3 warning lights you want, : oil pressure, charing failure, overheating.
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A broken site glass leaves a big hole in a crank case combine that with 70 mph speeds and the oil exits in a big hury. On top of that air temperature was close to 100F and my older son does not have a lot of experience. I am thankful the piston did not seize and cause a lock up. I went to the shop and looked at all the damage, ugly. I have seized a couple two stroke dirt bikes way back when, holed a piston on a RD 350, but this was in a whole new category of Oh Shit!!
That's just bad luck......I have an older Suzuki quad with an oil level window slightly behind and inboard of the rear tire....It's always covered in mud..The 82 XR Honda next to the quad has the screw in dipstick on the front right and always covered in thick mud....
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I have oil pressure gauges on the Jackal and Breva that work well along with warning lights. I looked in to installing the same on my KLR but
decided it was not practical when I found out the normal operating pressure was around 16 psi (factory says 11-21) with 5 or less at idle. Couldn't find a gauge that was intended to read pressures that low. The warning light would probably have to be set at 3 or so?
I've never heard of another sight glass failure though, and much prefer it to a dipstick.
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It's not unheard of for a sight glass to fall out. Seems to me the one on my RT was plastic and just held in with friction. I think newer RTs use a retaining ring; I know my R1200R does.
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I much prefer a sight glass to a stick. I would check my oil level far more often on my bikes that had sights vs sticks. Its not much of a issue as none of my Guzzi ever use much oil anyway.
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when you started out about a KLR I was ready to say get a DR... but it has the same type sight glass.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-6MqL2LH/0/M/IMG_2115-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-6MqL2LH/A)
the CS is the best piece of bling I've gotten for it..
No foot lever on that center stand?
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I was riding my R1150RT when this happened. It's very hard to read the damn site glass on the RT shadowed by the plastic side fairing, covered with road grime and without my reading glasses! Even trying to read the damn thing on level ground, on the side stand with a flashlight is less than ideal. I change my oil every 2000 miles on the RT, have for ten years so I am reasonably confident that it doesn't ever drop below minimum.
I wish every manufacturer would just install a dip stick! Problem is the KLR fills directly over the clutch plates and the RT into the left hand cylinder head. It can't take too much to add a dip stick that reaches into the depths of the sump.
And on a less than happy note I got the repair estimate for new parts.... $3500 + labour, so that is not going to happen, I found a used low mile engine on Ebay for $1850 including shipping to Phoenix, add in the initial diagnostic and then the swap and I am into this thing for $2500, to keep an 8 year old KLR on the road, I must be crazy. I just couldn't walk away from a bike I had $5K into, if the failure had happened back home then I could have rebuilt it myself.
Bought my 2007 KLR in 2007 for $2,700 with less than 10k on the clock. Came with doohickey, Happy Trails skid plate, kickstand switch mod, progressives fore and aft, lowered dog bones, fuse mods, etc etc etc. Right now she has in excess of seventy farkles... everything from sub rack and cigar rack to bottle cages, dual headlights, center stand, brush guards, you name it. 55k on the clock... my very favorite ride. Rode her today. But still, for that kind of repair money, I'd just get another KLR and start swapping farkles.
They are some very lovable mutts, aren't they?
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kufdfa/marylandoverlook1000.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kufdfa)
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That is all I needed was one more thing to worry about. A frigen oil site glass breaking lol.
And really for a tough Enduro I think one would be hard pressed to beat an Ole KLR650. If taken care of they are known to run over 100,000 Mi. As for the Gen 1 they are pretty tough ole bikes and in my view darn hard to be for the money spent. Plus they can knock down 85+ MPH on the Highway for at least for an Hour or so. Sorry have not ridden longer than that at those speeds lol. And knock down 50+ MPG doing it. All on a carburated Single Cylinder 650cc Thumper. :)
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No foot lever on that center stand?
Nope. I just stand on the bit that's on the ground, and do the "pull up & back" routine. A relatively light bike, so only an issue when fully loaded for touring.
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Even more so with a layer of road grime that was very difficult to clean off while on a road trip. Factor in geezer eyesight and, well, ... :rolleyes:
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/wpml_yes_zpspkmhydex.gif)
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic002/bikepics-2112684-984_zpsoxtwafzo.jpg)
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No foot lever on that center stand?
It's not needed..
A relatively light bike
60#< a KLR, Ive had 4 of them.. the DR is superior in every way..
(https://photos.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-RG8GvZx/0/S/IMG_1871-S.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/DR-650/i-RG8GvZx/A)
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I much prefer a sight glass to a stick. I would check my oil level far more often on my bikes that had sights vs sticks. Its not much of a issue as none of my Guzzi ever use much oil anyway.
The Triumph Trophy SE 1215 triple that I bought this year to replace my Stelvio although I ended up not replacing it but complementing it (long story) has a sight glass for the oil level, first one I've ever had.
It is a Pain in the Arse. You literally have to lay down on the ground with a flashlight to see it, even if the glass is clean. That may not sound like much trouble to our brisk young berkies who can bounce down to a prone position and back up like Tigger might, but's it's getting to be a big deal to me and I don't like it.
I don't expect this beast to use any oil so I'll just verify it's not using any at oil change time and shine it on ....
Lannis
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When I had that problem on two of my sidecar rigs, tha sight glass is ALWAYS on the side as the hack.
I carried a small mirror on a long handle. T'werks good.
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My solution is to just reach down, with phone in hand, and take a picture of the glass.
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When I had that problem on two of my sidecar rigs, tha sight glass is ALWAYS on the side as the hack.
I carried a small mirror on a long handle. T'werks good.
That sounds better than crawling on the dirt .... but I still think it's strange that in the 21st Century, I should have to use a mirror on a stick to operate my machine, like someone trying to read the boiler water level glass on a Stanley Steamer ....
Lannis