Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: waxi on September 25, 2016, 04:17:13 AM
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Hi,
I really like the look of wrapped exhaust and I was considering wrapping it my V7 II Special, but I don't know what will this do to my (now) good looking chrome pipes. What do you guys think about it? What are the disadvantages? Some people claim that you get more power from the engine (if this is true anyway), but this is not the reason... I just like the look.
I am afraid of:
- pipes cracking,
- engine will probably not be cooled so well and
- what will pipes look like over a few years if I change my mind and unwrap them.
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I'm not a fan. Looks silly, damages the pipes, and has no functional purpose on your bike. Just an opinion.
I think Sasquatch Jim wrapped everything else on one of his bikes though. Looked good.
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I've done it a couple of times, mainly to hide the staining on pipes. I don't believe any of the BS about heat retention increasing gas velocity and boosting power, even if it is true its so small you'll not notice
On a LM 1000 I wrapped the headers as some coating was flaking, that's a long story but the flaking was down to what I had done and was no fault of the coating. I think it looks Ok, when I tried the same thing on an 1100 Sporti I'm rebuilding it just looked awful, like Claudia Schiffer in pressure stockings to quote a member here, which made me laugh.
I've not noticed any adverse affects, but I only ride in the dry, I wouldn't consider it for year round riding, wet wrap could well start to rot the pipes over time, if put away damp.
It's a very messy and fiddly process to do properly, the pipes have to be removed and the wrap soaked in water before application then pulled tight and even as you go. After that I seal mine as recommended by most of the wrap producers, that also pretty messy.
I wrapped from the bottom up (on advice from here), to help any water run down rather than gather in the folds.
Another option to consider is ceramic coating, this can be applied internally and externally and IMHO looks pretty good. It is also surprisingly durable
Just to illustrate 1000 with wrap
(http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad355/Old_Jock/Guzzi/Sfida%201000/2016%202_zpspiwosluj.jpg)
1100 with ceramic coating (I'm still building it)
(http://i951.photobucket.com/albums/ad355/Old_Jock/Guzzi/Sfida%201100/DSCF1846_zpstmefbn0g.jpg)
Not sure if that helps or not
John
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That Magni IS Claudia Schiffer....
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I just wrapped my pipes. They were ugly, pitted and had a weld repair. Not in any shape to be ceramic coated. I also didn't want the black pipes to blend with the frame rails.
I did it on the bike, took less than 10 mins per side and wasn't messy at all, but You can do the titanium colored wrap dry and don't need to seal it.
I bought a 50' roll of 2" from eBay for $21. I would rather have polished stainless pipes, but it ooks good for a lot less $
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160922/10dbc4c7a44c51a73be7a75b9ab3fd47.jpg)
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In theory, you could design an exhaust system and optimize it for insulated tubes. The speed of sound is higher in hot gas than cool gas, so the calculated tube lengths would be a little greater than uninsulated ones. As a guess, you might also want the tubes to be a little larger in diameter, since there's more volume of gas to get through when it's hot. But insulating a system designed to be uninsulated would raise the tuned RPM, and might effectively restrict the flow a little, since you'd have more exhaust to get through the same size tubes. Maybe someone will do a before and after dynamometer test on a Guzzi.
But as already mentioned above, for street use these differences would most likely not be noticeable, and you're just left with the looks of it, and the question of what it does to the finish of the metal under it. I think it looks like something that you'd expect to see under the hood of a car to keep heat off the passenger compartment, but not out in the open where it looks terrible. But I fully understand that some people like the way it looks.
If you have a turbocharged engine, insulating the pipes from the engine to the turbocharger is beneficial, to keep the temperature and pressure up so it's available to spin the turbo.
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In land speed racing the wrapping of pipes seems to be a tuner's choice and from what I see at the tracks it's maybe 30 percent of the bikes...and sometimes it's done to keep heat from away from certain components rather than for tuning...Like Jim says, it can be beneficial if done correctly...
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I wrapped mine because of the claimed reduction in heat coming off of the pipes. Made a huge difference riding in southern Arizona when the temp is high.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dG75tv/WP_20151017_13_09_33_Pro.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dG75tv)
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The only application for pipe wrapping I ever saw that made sense to me was on a car's headers. It drastically reduced temperatures under the hood. On bikes, it seems like something that would just be tough to keep clean...
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If you have a turbocharged engine, insulating the pipes from the engine to the turbocharger is beneficial, to keep the temperature and pressure up so it's available to spin the turbo.
Can you explain that? The reason for wastegates is to control the ability for turbochargers to produce more pressure than wanted with or without insulating pipes, why would I want anymore I can`t use?
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The Black wrapping looks nice, the lighter color just looks bad...like aged and stained underwear!!
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Can you explain that? The reason for wastegates is to control the ability for turbochargers to produce more pressure than wanted with or without insulating pipes, why would I want anymore I can`t use?
A system designed for efficiency would not waste any exhaust gas, but most systems have turbochargers bigger than needed for maximum efficiency, so that you have more boost at less than peak conditions than you would have had. That is, decent boost at less than the peak power RPM. As you said, the waste gate relieves gas when there's more than you want. But before the gate opens, keeping the gas hot will let you get more energy out of it to drive the turbine than if you let it cool (improved lower RPM boost). I'm not around real race engines very often, but I'd bet that they have insulation between the exhaust ports and the turbocharger(s).
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Jim , turbo race engines use ceramic coating inside and outside on the header pipes .
Dusty
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True, I've heard of that for sure. I think some may use solid ceramic plumbing, but I'm not up on the new race stuff. But they all use methods to retain the heat of the exhaust gas to the turbo.
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True, I've heard of that for sure. I think some may use solid ceramic plumbing, but I'm not up on the new race stuff. But they all use methods to retain the heat of the exhaust gas to the turbo.
Yeah , F1 cars use 100% ceramic headers . Or at least they did , the new formula engines are some kind of hybrid contraption V6 .
Dusty
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Yes, electric motors assisting in spinning turbos, with excess turbo power used to recharge the turbo battery instead of going out the waste gate.
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A system designed for efficiency would not waste any exhaust gas, but most systems have turbochargers bigger than needed for maximum efficiency, so that you have more boost at less than peak conditions than you would have had. That is, decent boost at less than the peak power RPM. As you said, the waste gate relieves gas when there's more than you want. But before the gate opens, keeping the gas hot will let you get more energy out of it to drive the turbine than if you let it cool (improved lower RPM boost). I'm not around real race engines very often, but I'd bet that they have insulation between the exhaust ports and the turbocharger(s).
I am not seeing any.
https://thejudge13.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/renault_rs01_goodwood_2011-9.jpg
http://s1.aecdn.com/images/news/turbocharged-engines-in-formula-one-18108_5.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/09/c7/e9/09c7e954793ab30fd7b35cfca78c39f9.jpg
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I'm not sure those engines will go into use without getting header insulation, but maybe they will. You can certainly find plenty of photos of race engines with insulated tubing.
(http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c327/triplejim/Misc/misc_board_images/turbocharger_insulated_head_pipes_2_zpssdnqsvpt.jpg)
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He's just trolling you with an irrelevant thread drift, Jim. If you don't feed him, he goes away.
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Well, apparently I'll pass. It probably won't do anything good. I like my Guzzi too much :)
BTW, Rusnak, that's one nice looking bike :thumb:
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In land speed racing the wrapping of pipes seems to be a tuner's choice and from what I see at the tracks it's maybe 30 percent of the bikes...and sometimes it's done to keep heat from away from certain components rather than for tuning...Like Jim says, it can be beneficial if done correctly...
Yep. The old drag racers I know wrap their headers to keep heat out of the engine compartment, and to save skin when working on the engine between runs.