Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: MGPilot on October 16, 2016, 01:53:31 PM
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My Stone & Norge have finally sold. Dave at Moto International has been helpful and understanding. I have always recommended them before, only more so now.
The sales were somewhat slow, especially as they were current models. I had expected them to be my last motorcycle purchases. Really liked them. But out-of-the-blue, a cancer diagnosis and subsequent treatments/medications screwed with my balance and I couldn't trust myself on them.
Not being dead yet.....searched extensively for a replacement. Hard to match. Have owned a number of vintage and high performance sports cars over the years. Just couldn't find anything that was interesting.
And then.....remembered the Morgan Three Wheeler.
Most people know the Morgan company for their four-wheeled-sports cars. But Morgan actually started in 1910 building three-wheeled motorcycles to give customers a way to get around the four-wheeled road tax in England, but in a more practical format than the motorcycles of the day. The three wheelers were made up through the 1950's, then stopped.
But around 2009, Morgan employees became aware of the Liberty Ace, made in Seattle, inspired by the 1930's Morgan three-wheelers, but recreated with modern mechanicals. Charles Morgan initially discounted the idea until he actually drove one, then was hooked. They bought the production rights for the Liberty Ace, then proceeded to redesign it to be their own--sometimes making questionable choices compared to the Ace. The three-wheelers now comprise 2/3rds of the company's production.
I have never seen a "car" (actually, motorcycle) with such positive reviews. There are certainly other three-wheelers. In some ways, the Polaris Slingshot comes closest. A lot to be said for it. Half the price; faster; competent handling. But I could never get over the angry bug look. Might be great for a 20-something, but just didn't connect with me.
Probably the largest Morgan dealer is down in L.A. Best selection. Through researching online and in person, determined that the 2012-2013's (starting years) were essentially identical and shared some engineering issues that could cost $8-10k to update. Morgan West had a 2014 (the first year with all the updates included) that they would sell me for less than it would cost to buy an older one and update it. This 2014 was also part of a limited styling run that included freer-flowing exhaust pipes. Not a bad thing.
Bought it. Had it shipped to Seattle and have been shamelessly adding miles to it, driving it around the island were I live and nearby county roads.
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5131s.jpg)
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5147s.jpg)
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/M3W-160825-Shark-5146s.jpg)
Youtube
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srt51F0PTIc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Srt51F0PTIc)
Notes:
- Louder than the Norge or Stone, but no one seems to mind.
- In WA State, you don't need to wear a helmet if you're using seat belts. But rainy days, long rides--can be worth it to wear one anyway.
- Neighbors have lined up for rides (never happened with the Stone/Norge) even though they know it's a motorcycle.
- Took it to a Porsche Club track event. Handles surprisingly well with no bad habits. Can't claim superior car handling chops--just too easy to drive.
- S&S X-wedge 2-liter motorcycle engine; Mazda 5-speed gear box; "differential" (called a bevel box), changes the shaft drive to belt drive for the final wheel.
- The S&S has no balancing shafts, so you exit the car fully homogenized. This is not a "refined" experience; it shakes, rattles, farts. Glorious.
- Rear driving tire is essentially just a car tire.
- If you were ever thinking of having an affair, this is Not the car you can sneak in and out of the neighborhood and not be seen. I'm not much of a styling customizer, but couldn't resist adding the factory shark face, based on WWII aircraft.
- Surprising number of smiles & waves from other cars/motorcycles/pedestrians. I even get "thumbs up" from the local cops. As one owner stated, although the pace is faster, get your "parade wave" ready--as it's a parade.
- One owner took his to a Saturday morning "coffee & chrome" informal car meet. Ferrari's to the left. Lamborghini's to the right. They asked him to move because he was getting most of the attention. The car seems to communicate that you like mechanical things, but you're not trying to play the "I'm cooler/better than you" card. Very nice.
So, while I will peruse the posts here on occasion, I've been forced to move on.
Hope you guys continue to have an excellent time on your Moto Guzzi's. Character is no substitute for engineering. But excellent engineering with no character is just flat-arsed boring. Hard to accuse Moto Guzzi's of being boring.
James
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Absolutely cool! :grin:
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:1:
Chap at work has one and says it gives him a bit of a workout when driven "enthusiastically" given the lack of power brakes or steering
Enjoy it
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Well poop on the change of venue, but full marks for charging ahead in a different direction. Well played! Those do look like fun. I hope to hear some reports from time to time. Good luck with your health too.
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THAT looks like fun! No need to be a stranger.
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Yeah, stick around would like more info from an owner. I have an Eldo/hack and enjoy that but you never know.
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:1:
Chap at work has one and says it gives him a bit of a workout when driven "enthusiastically" given the lack of power brakes or steering
Enjoy it
It's unnerving for some folks to really understand that the list of what it doesn't have, far exceeds the list of what it has:
NO:
- top
- windows
- heater
- ABS
- traction control
- power brakes
- power steering
- doors
- radio
- windshield or windshield wipers
- Nav (not quite true, I added a small Ball mount so I could use my Rider 400 if I want)
- common sense
- 4th wheel (need to be ready for all the, "Hey, you're missing a wheel" or "Hey, if you weren't so cheap, you might have gotten a 4th"
- spare (for which wheel? Two sizes)
- effective trunk (either end; rear is mostly rear tire; front is an exquisitely ineffective use of space to locate the dry-sump oil tank, battery, fuse box, etc.)
Common question: What do you do when it rains?
Answer: You get wet.
:smiley:
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Great looking machine!! I have been interested in these for years now, perhaps in a few years I may let some bikes go and get one of these for sunny days.
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That's a cool rig, stick around and shoot us some ride reports
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In looking at the sales patterns, I get a sense that a lot of folks buy these, own them for a couple of years, then move on.
If you come to them from an automotive background, this makes sense as they seem limited and you might think of all the times you'd leave it in the garage.
If you come to them from a motorcycle background, you think,
- I didn't want/need all that crap on my motorcycle anyway
- Like a motorcycle with an integrated side car, it adds stability in questionable road conditions
- If it's cold/wet/etc. - I'm prepared. No big deal.
Hm.
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Looks like fun! A couple show up to local cars & coffee events. The new Morgan may be strange, but it's a lot less so than the originals, especially older ones. Steering wheel and a hand throttle?!? Plus manual spark advance and other vintage character. There is a top, but it ranks up there with the worst of 50s Brit sports car tops and visibility is, um, not great would be classic British understatement.
A Triking is familiar drivetrain material but the Morgan is a very well-finished machine. And reverse can be handy, the Mog is a bit more awkward to push around than a bike. You'll have a blast! Enjoy, and report back often.
cr
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I like it ! Yes , stick around :thumb:
Dusty
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Glad to hear you didn't just stop and that you found an answer
to your quandary.
All the very best.
Maurie
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Wow , a thing of beauty, and still very guzzish with that sweet transverse twin out front. Hope you enjoy it thoroughly .Didn't some of the four wheeled Morgan's have wooden frames? I seem to remember reading one time how they would handle differently depending on the relative humidity. Kind of like my wooded rocker. Many happy rides to you. :thumb:
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Very nice ! and stay in the flock.
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Wow , a thing of beauty, and still very guzzish with that sweet transverse twin out front. Hope you enjoy it thoroughly .Didn't some of the four wheeled Morgan's have wooden frames? I seem to remember reading one time how they would handle differently depending on the relative humidity. Kind of like my wooded rocker. Many happy rides to you. :thumb:
They still do. But distinguish the frame from the chassis.
The chassis is welded tube like a motorcycle or formula car.
The body is hand-rolled aluminum.
The wooden frame is, in effect, the spacer that goes between the aluminum body and the tube chassis.
But, still fun to joke that:
- Morgan is the only car company where you can come to work with a hammer and chisel....and really use them...or
- It's the only car that needs a termite inspection.
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That three-wheeler must be great fun!
Hope those health problems stop bothering you. Do stick around!
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Looks like a blast, have fun!
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Awesome! love the shark face..
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I wonder what it would be like with the engine from the California 1400?
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Very nice!
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My local Guzzi dealer (central Pennsylvania) is also a Morgan dealer. They have the leather helmets, etc., for sale as well as several vintage and new models in the showroom.
Great place to hang out or call for parts: http://www.europamacchina.co.uk/home.html
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Bob Nolan(RIP), who iived in Seattle, built a Morgan/Guzzi car and made it a fibreglass hardtop. He also made a covered wagon type of RV railer he used to pull with it. He & his wife Marion toured in it. 1 time he gave me a ride in his Morgan/Guzzi and I was immediately smitten to get 1 then. This was in the `90s. At that time you could buy a kit for $5K from JZR or Triking to put your Guzzi motor on from the UK. In the UK some put Honda CX 500 or 650 water cooled MCs. Of course many US customers used Harley or S&S V twin motors.
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Love it!! :grin: Enjoy.
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Glad to hear you didn't just stop and that you found an answer
to your quandary.
All the very best.
Maurie
Ditto :thumb:
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Sorry to hear that you had to get rid of the bikes, but you have found a great replacement! Have always loved these threewheelers!
Please stay and give us some reports on how it is to live with so we can dream about getting one :grin:
-Ulrik
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Yea, stay with the site! Guzzi rookies like me needs your expertise on issues that happen, as the will! Besides I would love to see a lot of pictures of that beautiful mechine and your adventures. Also I will be praying for your complete healing with the cancer issue.
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My local Guzzi dealer (central Pennsylvania) is also a Morgan dealer. They have the leather helmets, etc., for sale as well as several vintage and new models in the showroom.
Thanks. Since I used to fly a German aircraft (www.rf5b.com) for which I created an open cockpit conversion,
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/rf5bOpenCockpitCovering-011.jpg)
I've got a box of leather helmets & goggles. Normally, a bit much theater for my taste, yet they do create an nice solution for cold days where just a hat would be cold and an enclosed helmet can be isolating.
(When I told my wife that I was a little uneasy about using one of my leather helmets and goggles, she gave me the [you idiot] look and said, "You do realize that you're motoring around in an odd car with a shark face, don't you?)
Hm.
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There's at least one company making a Morgan knock-off kit car using Guzzi engines. This one's called Aero Cycle:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gQ6JDv/demo13.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gQ6JDv)
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Thanks. Since I used to fly a German aircraft (www.rf5b.com) for which I created an open cockpit conversion,
(http://www.bavendam.com/images/rf5bOpenCockpitCovering-011.jpg)
I've got a box of leather helmets & goggles. Normally, a bit much theater for my taste, yet they do create an nice solution for cold days where just a hat would be cold and an enclosed helmet can be isolating.
(When I told my wife that I was a little uneasy about using one of my leather helmets and goggles, she gave me the [you idiot] look and said, "You do realize that you're motoring around in an odd car with a shark face, don't you?)
Hm.
Is that a Sperber ? We had one at out gliding club but I never got to fly it, apparently glides at about 20/1 @ 50kts and went up about as good as a K 13
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Where did you find someone brave enough to crawl out and take that pic? :shocked:
Dusty
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I love Morgans in general and the 3 wheeler in particular. I doubt I would own one though.
The reason (apart from the expense)? Too many gravel roads round here that I would want to explore.
I can just imagine the center rear wheel trying to find purchase in the gravel heap between wheel tracks on a gravel road, The thing would be all over the place. So much worse too with a car wheel back there rather than a motorcycle one.
No, I'll just have to remain jealous and wish you a lot of fun in it.
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Congrats and good for you! :thumb: :cool: No need to leave the asylum! :rolleyes: :shocked:
Being "In The Wind" on a 3-wheeler is infinitely better than sitting on the couch with the TV remote!
I have driven the Morgan and they are fabulous, although "a trite spendy" at $50K. A friend is building a Tri-King now with a Guzzi motor. I believe there will be a 3-wheeler (or sidecar in my future...) :cool:
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THAT is a great way to poke cancer in the eye! A hoot of a ride and great looking, to boot.
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...so you exit the car fully homogenized.
Hilarious. Cool ride! Stick around! :grin:
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I love Morgans in general and the 3 wheeler in particular. I doubt I would own one though.
The reason (apart from the expense)? Too many gravel roads round here that I would want to explore.
I can just imagine the center rear wheel trying to find purchase in the gravel heap between wheel tracks on a gravel road, The thing would be all over the place. So much worse too with a car wheel back there rather than a motorcycle one.
No, I'll just have to remain jealous and wish you a lot of fun in it.
Good points.
Price - I think they are exorbitantly priced for what you get. They brag about how they are essentially made by hand, as in the 1930's. Another way to view this is that you are supporting their inefficiency. That's exactly why I never got one before when I felt I had other options. Also one of the driving forces for buying used rather than new.
OK....this is a little dark, but I've been given (depending on the day and what the MD was drinking) a range of 10% - 60% survival estimates. I could buy this and not dent the security for my wife nor inheritance for my son. These seem to hold their values pretty well. So, the actual cost with typical depreciation would be less than buying a new Miata. Local dealer really really wanted to order me a new one (6mos - 1 year waiting list) and just couldn't get his head wrapped around the idea that I might be on a different time frame than he. But, I'm irritating enough, I could get rejected by a Higher Power and still be around here 30 years from now. We make the statistics, they don't make us.
Back roads - The rear car tire is a 15" automotive rain tire. I see owners posting pics from trips on undeveloped, dirt/gravel roads through the mountains, in both summer and winter. The tray over the rear tire is plastic. Some of those guys spray the inside of their fenders with undercoating or bed liner. They argue that the traction from the rear tire combined with the 3 1/2" width of the front tires makes it handle well and plow through soft/uneven roads with ease. I can't confirm or deny.
Regardless, this is NOT the vehicle for everyone....and I would be fat and happy with my Moto Guzzi's had I been left alone.
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Is that a Sperber ? We had one at out gliding club but I never got to fly it, apparently glides at about 20/1 @ 50kts and went up about as good as a K 13
It is. This one had a feathering prop making it about 28:1. Cruised about 85-90mph at 2.5 - 3 gph. Spent a lot of time flying the Cascade Mountains just east of me. Flew it from Seattle to Ohio and back (about 1300mi)--mostly under power. Wonderful to be cruising the empty areas of Wyoming, etc. On the other hand, had to fly over a gigantic wind farm in eastern Washington. Looked like I was flying over hundreds of chopping devices....would have been hard to set down without getting smacked. Very happy to get past that one.
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As was mentioned, Morgans have wood framing to support the body, not a wood frame. If you want a wood-framed car, get an old Marcos. Early ones used a monocoque chassis made of marine plywood, very light and rigid for its day, early to mid-1960s. Volvo engine.
Can't think of a wood-framed motorcycle, lol. Hmmm, someone build a Guzzi-powered Mog replica with a wood monocoque.
cr
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Daimler Reitwagen...
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/JamesBagley/FAD5ABA7-5720-4E1B-A752-70A5C8DC13A0.jpg) (http://s28.photobucket.com/user/JamesBagley/media/FAD5ABA7-5720-4E1B-A752-70A5C8DC13A0.jpg.html)
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Lol! A bit before my time :cool:
cr
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I love Morgans in general and the 3 wheeler in particular. I doubt I would own one though.
The reason (apart from the expense)? Too many gravel roads round here that I would want to explore.
I can just imagine the center rear wheel trying to find purchase in the gravel heap between wheel tracks on a gravel road, The thing would be all over the place. So much worse too with a car wheel back there rather than a motorcycle one.
No, I'll just have to remain jealous and wish you a lot of fun in it.
I'm building a JZR morgan three wheeler replica precisely because of gravel roads. I can't ride anything with less than three wheels without coming off. I don't have the cash to buy a Morgan, but think I can build my own for about $15,000................. PS I'm committed now whatever it ends up costing. There will not be much Moto Guzzi titanium left by the time I'm finished :grin:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gBdhqa/jzr_pic.png) (http://ibb.co/gBdhqa)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nE3FAa/1401524_4849092484229_1154325271_o.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nE3FAa)
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As was mentioned, Morgans have wood framing to support the body, not a wood frame. If you want a wood-framed car, get an old Marcos. Early ones used a monocoque chassis made of marine plywood, very light and rigid for its day, early to mid-1960s. Volvo engine.
Can't think of a wood-framed motorcycle, lol. Hmmm, someone build a Guzzi-powered Mog replica with a wood monocoque.
cr
It's a wood framing as wood does not react with the aluminium bodywork as steel does.
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I'm building a JZR morgan three wheeler replica precisely because of gravel roads. I can't ride anything with less than three wheels without coming off. I don't have the cash to buy a Morgan, but think I can build my own for about $15,000................. PS I'm committed now whatever it ends up costing. There will not be much Moto Guzzi titanium left by the time I'm finished :grin:
Well I certainly hope that this works out OK, but I still think it will have a slithery and bouncy back end in gravel. I've pulled a couple of pics (NZ roads) off the net to show what I mean.
This one is typical.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/Gravel%20Rd%20nz.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/Gravel%20Rd%20nz.jpg.html)
Deep loose gravel is the main problem area on gravel roads and here you can see it nicely pilled up between wheel tracks, right where the center wheel of a 3 wheeler is going to be.
A gravel road in this condition is a good one on a bike because you can for the most part stay in the wheel tracks and if you do have to cross the 'heap' you can arrange to have a little power on to stabilise things and have a clear area to go to. A freshly graded gravel road is the pits on a road bike and worth avoiding if you can.
There are also these "1 & 1/2 lane ones.
(http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb116/johnr39/Gravel%20rd%202%20nz.jpg) (http://s210.photobucket.com/user/johnr39/media/Gravel%20rd%202%20nz.jpg.html)
Any bigger and they tend to get sealed.
I confess that the "WG ETV + " was a disappointment on gravel. It is too big and heavy, its wheels are too small a diameter and too wide, and of course it's tyres were dedicated sealed road ones. Comparing it with my Gold Flash in particular is a bit like comparing my '52 Austin on gravel with my 79 Rover SD1. The Austin felt completely at home on gravel, but with its wide tyres and low ground clearance the Rover slithered all over the place. It didn't 'bite in'.
I might be overstating the problem with the rear wheel of your build, especially if it's a nice narrow (by comparison) motorcycle wheel that can bite in a bit. I sincerely hope I am, and that you will be able to say "rubbish" to me in the future after trying it out.
I must ask the owner of one of those CanAm 3 wheeled things about this sometime.
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Well I certainly hope that this works out OK, but I still think it will have a slithery and bouncy back end in gravel. I've pulled a couple of pics (NZ roads) off the net to show what I mean.
I will be using the rear wheel and tire from the bike, there will be no difference. I will be using skinny tires up front , and a quick detachable steering wheel so I can swap over to an aircraft yoke when needed. Where I live if it has three wheels and steering wheel it's a "three wheeled vehicle " , if it does not have a steering wheel it's a motorcycle. I will just keep it as a motorcycle, a customised one. LOL
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5h9ITRjtBw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5h9ITRjtBw)
I have no alternative but to use gravel roads, I am surrounded by them. The gravel roads where you live look good, very good.
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This is a video I made earlier this year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc86qwTDaE4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bc86qwTDaE4)
The road as shown is as good as they get, it was graded the very next day. When freshly graded it's like riding on ball bearings, and when it rains they are a sea of mud, can't have everything :grin:
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I have no alternative but to use gravel roads, I am surrounded by them. The gravel roads where you live look good, very good.
Don't be fooled. They range from these to goat tracks!
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Don't be fooled. They range from these to goat tracks!
Luxury !
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Congrats, Enjoy and best wishes and prayers to beat the hell out of that cancer. I was at MI recently and noticed both of your bikes had sold.
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Where did you find someone brave enough to crawl out and take that pic? :shocked:
Dusty
Jesse Woods
(http://i652.photobucket.com/albums/uu242/woodooinstalater/woodooinstalater012/SF-66.jpg)
Would have done it. :smiley: Here, she's doing a plane to plane transfer. None of that sissy stuff like parachutes, being strapped on, etc. Yeah, I've met her. Quite a character, indeed. :grin: RIP Jesse..