Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ywgbandit on November 10, 2016, 08:30:20 PM
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I presently own a 2008 Suzuki GSF 1250S Bandit that is set up for touring and I have done everything to it I possibly can without doing internal engine mods. I have also done front and rear suspension mods, seat, luggage and wind screen etc. I have about 40K miles on it, and I'm looking for a new bike, not out of need, but more out of want. I have always loved the Moto Guzzi layout and I like the fact that there isn't a bunch of electronic junk on the bike. I can get a pretty good price on a new 2015 Norge GT 8V.
I can't leave anything stock...it's just not in my DNA. So my question is, what performance upgrades are available for this bike in the plug and play category? I don't want to do internal mods to the engine, just "bolt ons." I would also be interested in a taller windshield. Are there other models that use the same engine and aftermarket goodies?
Thank you in advance! Looking forward to the feedback.
Here is my current ride:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kuBifa/P1030795.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kuBifa)
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I presently own a 2008 Suzuki GSF 1250S Bandit that is set up for touring and I have done everything to it I possibly can without doing internal engine mods. I have also done front and rear suspension mods, seat, luggage and wind screen etc. I have about 40K miles on it, and I'm looking for a new bike, not out of need, but more out of want. I have always loved the Moto Guzzi layout and I like the fact that there isn't a bunch of electronic junk on the bike. I can get a pretty good price on a new 2015 Norge GT 8V.
I can't leave anything stock...it's just not in my DNA. So my question is, what performance upgrades are available for this bike in the plug and play category? I don't want to do internal mods to the engine, just "bolt ons." I would also be interested in a taller windshield. Are there other models that use the same engine and aftermarket goodies?
Thank you in advance! Looking forward to the feedback.
Here is my current ride:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kuBifa/P1030795.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kuBifa)
Mate, no matter what you do to the Norge, it will feel doughy compared to the Bandit, I owned both at the same time and I'm not lying, however mine's a 2 VPC so the difference is greater. Seriously I wouldn't go chasing "performance", I've never ridden a 4 VPC Norge but I understand that they're bloody strong when set up correctly. Just have it properly checked for tune and ride it. If you love to buggerise around with your bike (as do I), there are a couple of things you can do to improve it's ergonomics and hardware. PM me if you'd like some info.
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There is a front spring replacement kit, power commander, top box mounting is kind of plug and play.
As for the lack of electronics... yes it lacks some of the aids. which is a really good thing considering it's an italian, hand-made bike, and as such you're likely to experience a few issues with it which are more than likely to be electrical.
If you do test ride one, make sure you rev the engine, all the power and fun is up top.
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Don't drink the Power Commander kook aid, it's un-necessary, obsolete technology and can be harmful if used by people who don't understand the Guzzi 8V motor.
You won't build a 'Bandit Beater' out of an 8V Guzzi.
Pete
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If you just have to mess with your bike I would recommend that you get an older 70s or 80s Guzzi. Concerning the Norge, on the road it will be capable of keeping up with or exceeding some of the more powerful bikes except on a long straight. I have had my totally stock Norge up to 140 indicated with the trunk and bags on. Recently rode it home from SE OK, 481 miles, averaged 74.5 MPH. Don't know what more you could get out of any other sport tourer, at least without landing in jail.
GliderJohn
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I put the Dobeck TFI on the Bandit to eliminate the surging and popping out of the exhaust when throttling off, caused by the super lean Euro emissions and gain a little hp. I would like to do the same to the Norge and if there are suspension upgrades that work well I would consider those also. I'd like to transfer over my Givi E55 top box too if there is a mount available. Where I live handling at torque are more important than out right speed...the Norge would be fast enough as long as it handles. Unfortunately the nearest dealer in a 6 hr drive from me, so most issues will have to be handled by me.
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You just need a Beetlemap , available at beetlemaps here on WG .
Dusty
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There is a front spring replacement kit, power commander, top box mounting is kind of plug and play.
As for the lack of electronics... yes it lacks some of the aids. which is a really good thing considering it's an italian, hand-made bike, and as such you're likely to experience a few issues with it which are more than likely to be electrical.
If you do test ride one, make sure you rev the engine, all the power and fun is up top.
Can you explain what kind of electrical issues?
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I put the Dobeck TFI on the Bandit to eliminate the surging and popping out of the exhaust when throttling off, caused by the super lean Euro emissions and gain a little hp. I would like to do the same to the Norge and if there are suspension upgrades that work well I would consider those also. I'd like to transfer over my Givi E55 top box too if there is a mount available. Where I live handling at torque are more important than out right speed...the Norge would be fast enough as long as it handles. Unfortunately the nearest dealer in a 6 hr drive from me, so most issues will have to be handled by me.
What is this Dobeck gizmo? If it's an O2 or air temp sensor fooler I would strongly advise against use of same on a W5AM equipped Guzzi. They can do enormous damage.
Pete
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I ride an 8V Norge and have changed the windshield for a larger California Scientific unit. Changed the forks for a set off a Guzzi Sport 1200 (a little stiffer), the stock Norge shocks may be fine if you are average weight, I am a large guy. I tried adding a Mistral exhaust pipe but it seemed to make an oxygen sensor fail so I took it back off. I am happy with the stocker. You should enjoy the bike pretty much stock where you ride, I toured through BC from Revelstoke down to Creston a couple of years ago and was very impressed with the roads and scenery. Good luck with the Norge.
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:1: on the Cal/Sci screen. The stock suspension works well for me at 160#.
(http://i710.photobucket.com/albums/ww107/jpeters16/DSCN0032.jpg) (http://s710.photobucket.com/user/jpeters16/media/DSCN0032.jpg.html)
GliderJohn
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There are several different windscreen options, lowering pegs, seat options (lower, higher, heated), exhaust systems/silencers, top cases, tank and seat bags... There are even options for fiddling with your fuel injection (GuzziDiag and Beetle's maps, O2 foolers, etc.).
Nothing really needs to be done. If the bike fits you, you are good to go right out of the box. (I am on my second Norge.)
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I've had a 2011 Norge for several years. They are a great bike with the important boxes checked. Personal fit, styling, performance and range. Awesome ride but there aren't a plethora of aftermarket doodads and gizmos for them. Like the guys have pointed out, there are a few but you gotta dig for them. If the idea is changing just for the sake of change, there will be easier bikes to accommodate that penchant. They are great bikes but definitely not mainstream which makes them right for me. :bike-037:
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A big part of the appeal for me is the simplicity of the design. 2 cylinders (that you can access), air/oil cooled and limited electronics like 7 levels of traction control and all the other BS they are putting on M/C's these days. I love a bike that handles and I love torque. Unfortunately I am not going to get a chance to ride this Norge before I buy it, so I am going in blind. I have sat on one and found the seat to be comfortable, but that's no substitute for an hour or two in the saddle.
I love to do long rides and I live where the roads are mountainous and twisty, so handling and comfort are more important that power. The consensus, from what I have been reading, is that the Norge punches above it's weight class power wise?
Thank you all for the great responses....it's obvious this bike has a cult like following and from what I have read for very good reason. Now if I can get the price down to an acceptable level I'm ready to pull the trigger. The options you folks have shown me are exactly what I wanted to know. The Beetle map is exactly what I was looking for and I was unaware. The other items like bar risers, taller windscreen and probably an CO trim will be required.
Can anyone tell me if there are suspension upgrades available, or are they not required. I'm 6 ft tall and 220 pounds (without riding gear). Will the stock suspension handle the task or can it be improved upon? I had to spend a lot of money to get the Bandit to handle at an acceptable level.
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I am 5' 10" and 195 lbs. naked. With gear, I am probably pushing 220. With my wife on board as well, we are approaching 400 pounds. The Norge handles everything we do with aplomb. I do not even fiddle with tire pressure or suspension when going from one-up to two-up.
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The 8V models have higher and further back handlebars than the previous model. I find the bars just about perfect for me. Very similar to my 75 T-3. So you may one to ride it awhile before doing that mod unless you have really short arms.
GliderJohn
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What is this Dobeck gizmo? If it's an O2 or air temp sensor fooler I would strongly advise against use of same on a W5AM equipped Guzzi. They can do enormous damage.
Pete
The Dobeck TFI is an inline electronic device that inserts between the ECU and each fuel injector. The one I have can only be used to add fuel to the OEM map, and can't be used to de-fuel. New models can de-fuel too. It's adjustable in 4 areas using screwdriver adjustable pots that relate more to a carb set up, idle, accelerator pump equivalent, main jet equivalent and the 4th pot sets the rpm that the idle circuit cuts out. It came with an 02 bypass. I bought the entire set up from the Bandit guru Dale Walker from Holeshot performance who had done many hours of dyno testing. The result after installing his "Stage 2" kit is 24 more hp at the rear wheel, more torque and absolutely perfect throttle response with no exhaust popping on deceleration and an improvement of about 2-3 mpg. When purchased from Dale he gives you the basic settings and you make minor adjustments yourself. For the Bandit it works incredibly well and addresses some major fueling issues and is bullet proof. I have 50K km with this set up.
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The 8V models have higher and further back handlebars than the previous model. I find the bars just about perfect for me. Very similar to my 75 T-3. So you may one to ride it awhile before doing that mod unless you have really short arms.
GliderJohn
I am very long in the body with a 31" inseam. On my Bandit I had to get an SW Motec 1" up and 1" back bar mount and extra tall touring bars. As long as there is something available to make the adjustment I'm golden.
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I am 5' 10" and 195 lbs. naked. With gear, I am probably pushing 220. With my wife on board as well, we are approaching 400 pounds. The Norge handles everything we do with aplomb. I do not even fiddle with tire pressure or suspension when going from one-up to two-up.
Do you know if or what is available....fork upgrades like springs? Is it a cartridge style fork? Is there a rebuildable rear shock available?
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Don't drink the Power Commander kook aid, it's un-necessary, obsolete technology and can be harmful if used by people who don't understand the Guzzi 8V motor.
You won't build a 'Bandit Beater' out of an 8V Guzzi.
Pete
from what I read you are a Guzzi mechanic?....I understand your response to the Power Commander, how do you feel about the Beetle map?
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I ride an 8V Norge and have changed the windshield for a larger California Scientific unit. Changed the forks for a set off a Guzzi Sport 1200 (a little stiffer), the stock Norge shocks may be fine if you are average weight, I am a large guy. I tried adding a Mistral exhaust pipe but it seemed to make an oxygen sensor fail so I took it back off. I am happy with the stocker. You should enjoy the bike pretty much stock where you ride, I toured through BC from Revelstoke down to Creston a couple of years ago and was very impressed with the roads and scenery. Good luck with the Norge.
I hope you got to ride Hwy 3A on the east side of Kootenay Lake from the Ferry landing in Kootenay Bay to Creston. That is a ride that will separate the grain from the chaff!
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from what I read you are a Guzzi mechanic?....I understand your response to the Power Commander, how do you feel about the Beetle map?
You might say Pete is a Guzzi mechanic :laugh: Oh , and he tests most beetlemaps in the real world, seems he approves :thumb:
Dusty
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from what I read you are a Guzzi mechanic?....I understand your response to the Power Commander, how do you feel about the Beetle map?
Mark lives about three hours away from me. I've been running his maps since he first started developing them. Both of us bought the PCV/AT kool aid back when it was the only game in town and I soon realised it was a non starter unless you were willing to do an awful lot of screwing around due to the nature and design of the top end of the Guzzi 8V. It's also essentially obsolete technology. Why use a sledgehammer to try and crack a nut? Now there is full access to the maps for the W5AM why use something that only crudely messes with fuel and spark?
Quite simply Mark, (Beetle.) has spent many tens, probably hundreds of hours logging information on the road as well as time on the dyno and has produced maps that actually work because he addresses ALL of the factors involved in the map in both the main and delta as well as the correction tables that affect so many other functioning elements of how the bikes run.
Unlike most of the other 'Add on' kludges there is no requirement to add componentry or break into the loom to add magical boxes. Just make sure your bike is tuned correctly, buy a couple of cables for your laptop, download and donate to Guzzidiag, purchase your Beetlemap for a pittance and upload and ride. You also don't have to worry about the engine damage caused by gross overfuelling that most other 'Tuning' options are liable to engender because everyone believes the endlessly repeated mantra that the 'Stock maps are too lean' and in most areas fuel economy will be better than with the stock map.
For the last couple of years I've been running the final version, (I've uploaded many during the 'Evolutionary' period of development.) of the map built for the Mistral Hi-Pipe with dB killer in my Griso. The result is massive torque, seamless power delivery from 2,000rpm to an elevated redline, (Mark has his set at 9,000. I run a more conservative 8,750.) and in everyday riding improved fuel economy.
In the interest of disclosure I will state that I have been involved, albeit in only a tiny, peripheral, way with the development of the maps but the effort and results are Mark's and Mark's alone. As long as your bike is tuned correctly, (And there are few machines easier to tune than a W5AM Guzzi!) a Beetlemap is really just about the only performance mod worth making unless you have thousands of dollars to waste on cams, valve gear and head work.
Others may care to differ. Thing is they'd be wrong.
Pete
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Pete is definitely someone you should listen to very carefully before you rush out and spend a bunch of money to make your bike run WORSE.
Unfortunately, there are WAY too many clueless old farts out there dispensing outdated and useless 'tuning' information that does not apply to modern computer-controlled engines...what 'worked' back in the day is just not relevant anymore...
Save your money for modifications that have actual value to performance...tires, suspension, routine maintenance items, and personal protective gear...leave the 'snake oil' to the snakes... :wink:
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Mark lives about three hours away from me. I've been running his maps since he first started developing them. Both of us bought the PCV/AT kool aid back when it was the only game in town and I soon realised it was a non starter unless you were willing to do an awful lot of screwing around due to the nature and design of the top end of the Guzzi 8V. It's also essentially obsolete technology. Why use a sledgehammer to try and crack a nut? Now there is full access to the maps for the W5AM why use something that only crudely messes with fuel and spark?
Quite simply Mark, (Beetle.) has spent many tens, probably hundreds of hours logging information on the road as well as time on the dyno and has produced maps that actually work because he addresses ALL of the factors involved in the map in both the main and delta as well as the correction tables that affect so many other functioning elements of how the bikes run.
Unlike most of the other 'Add on' kludges there is no requirement to add componentry or break into the loom to add magical boxes. Just make sure your bike is tuned correctly, buy a couple of cables for your laptop, download and donate to Guzzidiag, purchase your Beetlemap for a pittance and upload and ride. You also don't have to worry about the engine damage caused by gross overfuelling that most other 'Tuning' options are liable to engender because everyone believes the endlessly repeated mantra that the 'Stock maps are too lean' and in most areas fuel economy will be better than with the stock map.
For the last couple of years I've been running the final version, (I've uploaded many during the 'Evolutionary' period of development.) of the map built for the Mistral Hi-Pipe with dB killer in my Griso. The result is massive torque, seamless power delivery from 2,000rpm to an elevated redline, (Mark has his set at 9,000. I run a more conservative 8,750.) and in everyday riding improved fuel economy.
In the interest of disclosure I will state that I have been involved, albeit in only a tiny, peripheral, way with the development of the maps but the effort and results are Mark's and Mark's alone. As long as your bike is tuned correctly, (And there are few machines easier to tune than a W5AM Guzzi!) a Beetlemap is really just about the only performance mod worth making unless you have thousands of dollars to waste on cams, valve gear and head work.
Others may care to differ. Thing is they'd be wrong.
Pete
I am extremely happy to hear that, if for no other reason than the price is right. Not having to go to a bunch of aftermarket solutions that may or may not be real solutions is a wonderful thing. The encouraging thing about that is it's obvious from your response that Guzzi got it almost right from the get go, and big changes are not required. And did i mention I love torque!
Also means I can spend money on suspension if needed!
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AF1 Racing is Piaggio's unofficial US warehouse. They carry many options for our bikes. Here is their page for the Norge: https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=2654 (https://www.af1racing.com/store/Scripts/prodList.asp?idCategory=2654)
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Thanks everyone!
Are there any hand guards that fit the Norge?
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Here is a fork cartridge kit:
http://www.carpimoto.it/en-US/Bike_Moto-Guzzi_Norge-1200-8V/Specific/46380_F15M104K-Matris-F15-Fork-Cartridge-Kit-for-Moto-Guzzi-Norge-1200-8V-10-.htm
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Thanks everyone!
Are there any hand guards that fit the Norge?
I believe the Stelvio hand guards fit.
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I am extremely happy to hear that, if for no other reason than the price is right. Not having to go to a bunch of aftermarket solutions that may or may not be real solutions is a wonderful thing. The encouraging thing about that is it's obvious from your response that Guzzi got it almost right from the get go, and big changes are not required. And did i mention I love torque!
Also means I can spend money on suspension if needed!
I would agree that the Norge in it's stock form is a great ride. The power isn't explosive but steady throughout the entire range. Handling is good to excellent in most scenarios with average sized riders. I bought mine without ever having seen it and never having ridden a Guzzi. I've had a number of bikes but this one fits my size and style of riding with no changes needed. Great for a commuter or a tourer. If you find much for accessories, please post them so the rest of us Norge pilots can see them.
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I am extremely happy to hear that, if for no other reason than the price is right. Not having to go to a bunch of aftermarket solutions that may or may not be real solutions is a wonderful thing. The encouraging thing about that is it's obvious from your response that Guzzi got it almost right from the get go, and big changes are not required. And did i mention I love torque!
Also means I can spend money on suspension if needed!
As with almost all bikes the biggest 'Bang for Buck' return you can be get is by throwing money at the suspension. As Mark is prone to say 'Handling improvement due to aggressive spending'! This is true of all the CARC Guzzis which tend to be under sprung and over damped.
With the Norges the forks can be greatly improved by revalving and oil type and quantity as well as getting suitable springs. The rear shock is a pretty crude thing and huge improvements can be made by accepting the inevitable and spending money on something decent from Matris or Wilburs. As an addition to this one of the VITAL bits of preventative maintenance on any CARC bike is to drop off the swingarm and grease the swingarm bearings and linkage bearings as the factory is always totally abstemious with grease application and they will rust out in short order unless packed properly.
Brakes can be greatly improved simply by changing to HH pads rather than the FF ones supplied ex-factory which appear to be made of something like granite and while impervious to wear don't work very well and destroy the rotors in fairly short, (100,000km) order.
Pete
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Hello,
I'm new in this forum and this is my second post.
I like change my bykes/cars so I show you my first mod for my Norge:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLNtMqzOzgk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLNtMqzOzgk)
I say right away that it's not for sale because I should be asking for an excessive price, but if someone is interested in replicating it on their own and is a minimum Arduino and electronics geek like me, then I can provide all the necessary info.
Comment or suggestions?
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i wonder if the original poster ever got the norge?