Wildguzzi.com

General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: scra99tch on February 02, 2017, 10:14:27 AM

Title: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: scra99tch on February 02, 2017, 10:14:27 AM
Stuck my ear right on the valve cover and its almost unmistakable that there is a slight rattle just off idle.  It is separate from the valve ticking that can be heard at idle.

Any ideas?

Timing chain tensioner, failing push rod, worn tappet?

30k 2007 Vintage.

Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 02, 2017, 10:19:16 AM
Rocker arm moving back and forth?  :popcorn:
I'd probably go with earplugs for this one.. after I pulled a valve cover and had a good look. <shrug>
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: scra99tch on February 02, 2017, 10:22:16 AM
Seems to go away when engine heats up, been in the mid 20's here, and I've started the bike only 2 times this winter.

Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: pehayes on February 02, 2017, 10:24:55 AM
Loose exhaust header?
Exhaust header touching the frame?

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: oldbike54 on February 02, 2017, 10:29:02 AM
 Why are you placing your head on the tappet cover ? Isn't that just asking for trouble ? :laugh:

 "I tell ya it's makin' a funny noise Bob"  :huh: :grin:

 Dusty
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: scra99tch on February 02, 2017, 10:29:43 AM
I'll look, when I get home. 
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: scra99tch on February 02, 2017, 10:32:08 AM
Why are you placing your head on the tappet cover ? Isn't that just asking for trouble ? :laugh:

 "I tell ya it's makin' a funny noise Bob"  :huh: :grin:

 Dusty



Had to heat up my ears.
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: oldbike54 on February 02, 2017, 10:36:52 AM


Had to heat up my ears.

  :laugh: What do you say judges ? OK , they accept that answer  :grin:

 Dusty
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: Two Checks on February 02, 2017, 11:00:28 AM
Sizzle of burning flesh?
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: sidecarnutz on February 02, 2017, 11:13:08 AM
I thought that in most Guzzi's, loud valves save lives?? ;-)
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: pete roper on February 02, 2017, 12:12:51 PM
Don't start the bike when you can't ride it in winter. It's doing it more harm than good.
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 02, 2017, 02:25:07 PM
Don't start the bike when you can't ride it in winter. It's doing it more harm than good.

That almost got me killed a couple of years ago.  :smiley: I wanted to work on the Lario down in the shop. It was snowing and blowing up a storm. Thought, "Oh, no problem, I'll just push it. It's down hill.." Even at that, it was a long hard push. Made it to the hanger apron, and it was ice covered. Started sliding, but got the sidestand down without loosing it. Then.. I realized I was puffing and blowing like a whale. Saw a guy coming down the same path dressed in a black hooded coat. He laid his scythe on the Lario, opened his Ipad, scrolled down, and said, "Come along Mr. Stottlemeyer.." I said, no..no.. there must be some mistake. I'm not ready yet." He said, "You can't imagine how many times I've heard that." I grabbed his Ipad, said lemme see. Scrolled down, and sure enough, the name was spelled wrong. Happens all time. I said, "Stottlemyer..there's no e" He looked and said, "Oh, sorry.. you're right. Didn't mean to startle you. You should probably rethink doing what you are doing at your age, though. Have a nice day.."
True story.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: oldbike54 on February 02, 2017, 02:39:47 PM
 Almost done in by a clerical error Chuckie ?

 Dusty
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: Bill Owens on February 02, 2017, 04:06:50 PM
That almost got me killed a couple of years ago.  :smiley: I wanted to work on the Lario down in the shop. It was snowing and blowing up a storm. Thought, "Oh, no problem, I'll just push it. It's down hill.." Even at that, it was a long hard push. Made it to the hanger apron, and it was ice covered. Started sliding, but got the sidestand down without loosing it. Then.. I realized I was puffing and blowing like a whale. Saw a guy coming down the same path dressed in a black hooded coat. He laid his scythe on the Lario, opened his Ipad, scrolled down, and said, "Come along Mr. Stottlemeyer.." I said, no..no.. there must be some mistake. I'm not ready yet." He said, "You can't imagine how many times I've heard that." I grabbed his Ipad, said lemme see. Scrolled down, and sure enough, the name was spelled wrong. Happens all time. I said, "Stottlemyer..there's no e" He looked and said, "Oh, sorry.. you're right. Didn't mean to startle you. You should probably rethink doing what you are doing at your age, though. Have a nice day.."
True story.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on February 02, 2017, 05:35:28 PM
Almost done in by a clerical error Chuckie ?

 Dusty

It was close.. but made me think. Old farts shouldn't do stuff they did when they were in their 40s without giving it a thought.
Nevertheless,  I still hate to start an air cooled engine unless I'm going to let it get up to operating temperature.
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: lorengo70 on October 31, 2017, 07:45:27 AM
Hi scra99tch. did you ever find out what was causing the rattling noise? My V7 II has about 26k km and its making the same noise you mentioned your bike makes (the noise started about 5k km ago). It seems like the noise (which sounds like coins being rattled in a tin box) is coming from both cylinders. The noise gets louder when I start driving at low revs (3,000 rpm or so). It disappears (or at least quiets down) after the engine gets hot. I have adjusted the valves, checked all screws and other fastenings and everything is tight. Not sure if I should just wear earplugs (i.e. ignore) or worry about it.

Any thoughts? Thanks.
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: scra99tch on October 31, 2017, 08:44:51 AM
Nope rode it all summer and issue was not there.  I have a hard time recollecting the actual noise I heard.
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: lorengo70 on October 31, 2017, 09:30:44 AM
Ok, thanks for the reply. Good to hear it disappeared on its own.
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: Orange Guzzi on October 31, 2017, 10:20:21 AM
Rod small end bearing worn and allowing the piston to slap/rock in the cylinder.  Sounds like a knock.  Happens in the lower rpm range. 
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: guzzisteve on October 31, 2017, 10:28:45 AM
Just a cold bike. That's all. Perfect time to put in roller rockers
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 31, 2017, 10:31:25 AM
I keep telling folks to wear earplugs, but no...... they gotta put their ears on the valve covers.  :smiley:
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: normzone on October 31, 2017, 10:41:15 AM
I went through that - earplugs were my solution.
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: guzzisteve on October 31, 2017, 10:44:42 AM
Just noise, sounds normal if that's all you hear. Some don't own other brands.
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: pete roper on October 31, 2017, 11:00:17 AM
Some people are determined to find something wrong with their bikes! Why? Are your lives incomplete unless you have something to moan about??? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: Orange Guzzi on October 31, 2017, 11:12:59 AM
Some people are determined to find something wrong with their bikes! Why? Are your lives incomplete unless you have something to moan about??? :rolleyes:

My opinion is, if it is not broke when I get back from a ride, I did not ride it hard enough. Rev-limiters have probably extended the life of motorcycle engines more so than oil changes and other maintenance.   I ride for the fun of it.  It is all about recreational riding.  I have owned many motorcycles and have never blown one up or totally destroyed the engine.  Other parts, that is another issue.  Usually perishable parts worn out. 

My 2003, 1100 has hydro lifters.  If it starts knocking, I'm heading to the garage.  If it gets out of the low 40's f, I heading for a ride. I hate cold weather. 
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: TOMB on October 31, 2017, 11:19:53 AM
I had the same problem on my convert turns out it was the wrist pin bushing and the wrist pin replaced them both the bushing and the wrist pin and noise is now gone now I have to think about doing the other side.Probally rode 30k with that noise
TOMB
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: yogidozer on October 31, 2017, 11:31:33 AM
Seems to go away when engine heats up, been in the mid 20's here, and I've started the bike only 2 times this winter.

before you panic and start tearing things apart, what weight oil you using? you say it only happens now that temps are in the 20's, and goes away when it warms up 
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: lorengo70 on October 31, 2017, 12:04:23 PM
Thanks for all the replies. I use the recommended oil weight 10w60. I am inclined to ignore the noise. My concern is that it wasnt there before and that it might be a symptom of something bigger (more expensive) down the road. As far as when it happens, its nothing to do with outside temperature (just engine needs to get hot for it to quiet down). I have ridden it at 30c and 5c and same noise at the start and for about 10 minutes or so after riding.

With respect to TOMB's suggestion/comment: "...turns out it was the wrist pin bushing and the wrist pin replaced them both the bushing and the wrist pin and noise is now gone now...", not sure what that means but will pass that comment along to the dealer/mechanic when I see him next.

With regards to Orange Guzzi's comment: "..Rod small end bearing worn and allowing the piston to slap/rock in the cylinder.  Sounds like a knock.  Happens in the lower rpm range". Wonder if its normal for that kind of bearing to be worn after 26k km and why it would only happen a low RPMs and why it disappears later on when the engine is hot.  Once again, will bring that suggestion over to my mechanic and see what he has to say. Btw, I have talked to my mechanic before about this and problem is bike is always hot when i get there so he cant hear the noise and i have been very impatient about leaving my bike there overnight as he is pretty far from my home and i ride my bike every day.

With regards to GuzziSteve comment: "Just noise, sounds normal if that's all you hear. Some don't own other brands." Yes, MG's are noisy engines and I am fine with that. The noise that I am concerned about, was not there for the first 20k km.

Once again, thank you all for your suggestions. Will just wear earplugs and ride. The riding season is almost over here in Toronto and will be taking my bike to the mechanic sometime in the spring. Will keep you posted as to what the diagnosis is.
Cheers.

Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: rodekyll on October 31, 2017, 12:07:55 PM
Could be the timing chain or kickstand spring.

I have a similar rattle on the trike engine.  It's a new 1200 2-valve -- not a rebuild.  I was getting ready to tear into it at about 3k miles when I put my stethoscope on it here and there -- and discovered that the rattle is the PCV valve check ball.

Another time the same sort of thing was happening -- off-idle rattle, only sometimes, usually noticed it cold.  It sounded more like an exhaust header hammering on the frame.  In the course of snooping I managed to reproduce the rattle -- by tapping on my Nautilus compact air horn.  The plastic trumpet part had come loose and was buzzing against the metal compressor.

Then there was the time I borrowed an SP for some reason and had an annoying rattly sound that sometimes buzzed the left handlebar and sometimes just made noise.  It was unusual enough that I pulled over and gave it a good walkaround.  The left front caliper bolts were almost completely backed out.  Oddly, the brakes felt normal until I tightened it up.  Then I could feel a definite pulsation and "wheel surge" of a rotor not in-plane.  I don't know which caused which, but I got the SP back to the owner in a slow hurry.

So your noise can be anything or nothing.  Winter is a good time to look for it.
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: lorengo70 on October 31, 2017, 12:11:04 PM
Guzzi Steve: Do V7 IIs need roller rockers?
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: lorengo70 on October 31, 2017, 12:18:16 PM
Hi rodekyll. Timing chain crossed my mind but sound more from around pistons than alternator cover. I heard about ppl having noise from kick stand touching exhaust before (doesnt seem to be the root of my problem). thanks for the suggestions.
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: guzzisteve on October 31, 2017, 12:31:05 PM
Guzzi Steve: Do V7 IIs need roller rockers?
The small block rockers are a bit different than big blocks, not had a rattle on them but no high mileage either.
As far as noise, there is little clearance on exhaust on frame parts .
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: lorengo70 on October 31, 2017, 12:33:54 PM
The small block rockers are a bit different than big blocks, not had a rattle on them but no high mileage either.
As far as noise, there is little clearance on exhaust on frame parts .
OK thanks Steve. Will check exhaust for frame contact again. That said, not sure, if that is the cause, why it would stop after engine heats up.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 31, 2017, 12:42:47 PM
OK thanks Steve. Will check exhaust for frame contact again. That said, not sure, if that is the cause, why it would stop after engine heats up.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

The exhaust system moves as it warms up from expansion? Just a guess, but a few thousandths of an inch *might* make a difference.
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: lorengo70 on October 31, 2017, 06:24:56 PM
I am attaching a youtube link with the rattling engine sound from my bike, just in case anyone is interested in listening to what i mean by this rattling sound. excuse the sound quality (recorded with my phone in the garage)
cheers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YInYXrwDSoA
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: guzzisteve on October 31, 2017, 06:39:45 PM
Yea, Yea that's the Normal sound and they sound different than the 2 TB V7's
Title: Re: Rattle Left Cylinder Head
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on October 31, 2017, 07:27:41 PM
It's really hard to tell sounds from a cell phone on a computer speaker.. but sounded normal except for a few seconds it sounded like an exhaust leak. Maybe.  :smiley: