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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: drbone641 on February 18, 2017, 03:59:24 PM
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Throwing this out for input. My buddy is retiring next summer and asked if I would like to ride the Pirsig "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" route. Of course, the getting there and getting back will effectively invite a Round the Country trip. I have been looking for 'the' bike to ride for this trip. Comfort vs Character. Everything from K1600GTL, California Touring 1400, Stelvio, R1200RT, Old Airheads and a couple of old Eldorados have been considered. I know that I don't want to do the trip on my Air cooled Multistrada 1100s, because of the lack of protection alone. My neck can't take the beating and I don't think there are any more windshields out there to try. So, if you were going to do this ride and live with the bike for about 3 weeks and be 'about the zen' of the trip, what would you want to ride.
Trivial brain game, but I think the input might be interesting.
Thanks for taking the time
Bone
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Throwing this out for input. My buddy is retiring next summer and asked if I would like to ride the Pirsig "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" route. Of course, the getting there and getting back will effectively invite a Round the Country trip. I have been looking for 'the' bike to ride for this trip. Comfort vs Character. Everything from K1600GTL, California Touring 1400, Stelvio, R1200RT, Old Airheads and a couple of old Eldorados have been considered. I know that I don't want to do the trip on my Air cooled Multistrada 1100s, because of the lack of protection alone. My neck can't take the beating and I don't think there are any more windshields out there to try. So, if you were going to do this ride and live with the bike for about 3 weeks and be 'about the zen' of the trip, what would you want to ride.
Trivial brain game, but I think the input might be interesting.
Thanks for taking the time
Bone
What does "lack of protection" have to do with "zen"? :huh: You're not SUPPOSED to be "protected", you're supposed to be "one" with nature and the environment in which you move.
I only read the book once when it came out, but the only bike appropriate for this ride is a drum-braked airhead BMW, preferably a 500 or 600cc.
Lannis
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Pirsig himself did the trip on a '64 Honda 305 Superhawk -- two up with his son.
Authenticity requires something in that spirit.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jfhVVa/Honda_CB77_Super_Hawk_Front_Right_jpg_fit_881_771.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jfhVVa)
His buddy rode a Beemer, with his wife pillion.
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Around the country in 3 weeks.....I'd fly....
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Pirsig himself did the trip on a '64 Honda 305 Superhawk -- two up with his son.
Authenticity requires something in that spirit.
Correct on both counts.
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I would take the Aero Lario. For a Zen ride, you shouldn't be setting your cruise control, turning up the heated seat, etc. Just a motor and two wheels.. :thumb:
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Pirsig himself did the trip on a '64 Honda 305 Superhawk -- two up with his son.
Authenticity requires something in that spirit.
......
His buddy rode a Beemer, with his wife pillion.
All right, then, a black and chrome Superhawk or a black and chrome Beemer ... !
Lannis
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Romantic as recreating the route on a Superhawk sounds , I'll bet that if Pirsig was going to do the trip today he would choose a much more modern motorbike . Memory says he actually took the "Chautauqua" in 1967 . Remember , Pirsig himself said "The only Zen you can find on the tops of the mountains is the Zen you bring up there" .
Dusty
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Pirsig would choose the Stelvio...no question! :thumb:
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Well, he could have chosen a BMW, but didn't.
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He rode what he had. You should, too.
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The man is still alive , heck , ask him :thumb:
Dusty
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GRiSO, throw on some soft bags and Marlin windscreen.
Take lots of pictures :thumb: :bike-037:
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Throwing this out for input. My buddy is retiring next summer and asked if I would like to ride the Pirsig "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" route. Of course, the getting there and getting back will effectively invite a Round the Country trip. I have been looking for 'the' bike to ride for this trip. Comfort vs Character. Everything from K1600GTL, California Touring 1400, Stelvio, R1200RT, Old Airheads and a couple of old Eldorados have been considered. I know that I don't want to do the trip on my Air cooled Multistrada 1100s, because of the lack of protection alone. My neck can't take the beating and I don't think there are any more windshields out there to try. So, if you were going to do this ride and live with the bike for about 3 weeks and be 'about the zen' of the trip, what would you want to ride.
Trivial brain game, but I think the input might be interesting.
Thanks for taking the time
Bone
In the spirit of the original journey, let me suggest a small Russian two stroke on pre mix fuel. As I understand (or not understand) it, the original trip was how you cope with the stories that spring from unusual solutions borne of confronting mechanical situations. If it's too easy, you'll end up doing the trip easy as and you'll not "taste" any of the flavours that are there to be savoured. But maybe I'm wrong...?
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Uh Huzo old buddy , Pirsig was trying to define quality , not torture himself :shocked:
Dusty
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The man, the kid, the bike.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/ctkQVa/motorcyle_yourself_featured.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ctkQVa)
The rest of the party:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/f0ZxbF/7d2adb743d62aff0e1a00f88e91f3cde.jpg) (http://ibb.co/f0ZxbF)
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Wing ding.
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I think for a trip like this, if you really are into the zen aspect,,, I would pick the simplest, rawest bike that the rider has a soul connection with,,,, that would vary with the individual rider.
When I thought of what I'd ride, the first bike I thought of, was my first street bike, a 72? Kawasaki KZ400, I thought it had simple lines, similar to the Triumphs and BSAs of my youth, I only rode it for a month before an old lady ran into, and I subsequently traded it in on an H2 Triple.
Out of the bikes that I have access to now, my biggest soul connection is with my CX100,,, so I'd fit higher bars on it, strap on the airhawk seat and my soft bags, and that would be the ride for me,,, and I'd make sure to bring a copy of the book with me, to read a little each day.
I remember reading the book and I realize everyone takes something different from it,,, what stuck with me, was the adage,,, everything in life, can be defined in one word, "quality",,,, and that "mediocrity" just doesn't cut it.
ps to the OP, re your neck problems and the buffeting,,, I've had similar, very painful issues,,, I finally broke down and bought a high tech aerodynamic Shoei helmet late last year(paid more for it,than the bike I rode all summer),,, the helmet made a huge difference, expensive but worth it,fyi
Kelly
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If you want the bike to be the trip, take any Tonti Guzzi with an Swannee Aerofoil. It will take center stage, and provide a backdrop of lovely sound to sooth your soul as you travel. If you want to glide effortlessly and silently through your travels, and seem to be flying without mechanical means, take a BMW K75, with, um, a Swannee Aerofoil fairing. :wink:
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Uh Huzo old buddy , Pirsig was trying to define quality , not torture himself :shocked:
But Huzo is not wrong about using maintenance of the motorcycle during the trip to illustrate philosophical points he wanted to make.
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Throwing this out for input. My buddy is retiring next summer and asked if I would like to ride the Pirsig "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" route. Of course, the getting there and getting back will effectively invite a Round the Country trip. I have been looking for 'the' bike to ride for this trip. Comfort vs Character. Everything from K1600GTL, California Touring 1400, Stelvio, R1200RT, Old Airheads and a couple of old Eldorados have been considered. I know that I don't want to do the trip on my Air cooled Multistrada 1100s, because of the lack of protection alone. My neck can't take the beating and I don't think there are any more windshields out there to try. So, if you were going to do this ride and live with the bike for about 3 weeks and be 'about the zen' of the trip, what would you want to ride.
Trivial brain game, but I think the input might be interesting.
Thanks for taking the time
Bone
KLR650 for total simplicity. Big tank for long range, too.
If you can't take buffeting, remove the wind screen. Screen cause buffeting. Wind separates round the screen and slaps back together on your head. Without a screen, it separates round your head and slaps back together in a place you already left behind. It's that simple, really.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/d8r2bF/wind_wakes.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d8r2bF)
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But Huzo is not wrong about using maintenance of the motorcycle during the trip to illustrate philosophical points he wanted to make.
True , but he was riding a high tech bike for its era , not some old leaky smoky 2 stroke Soviet era junk . When Pirsig fixed something he expected it to stay fixed .
Dusty
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True , but he was riding a high tech bike for its era , not some old leaky smoky 2 stroke Soviet era junk
True. The Honda was high-tech even compared to the Beemer. How many mass-produced bikes had overhead cams in 1964? Velocette, Norton, Ducati. Anyone else? Honda probably made more OHC bikes than those other three brands combined.
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True , but he was riding a high tech bike for its era , not some old leaky smoky 2 stroke Soviet era junk . When Pirsig fixed something he expected it to stay fixed .
Oh absolutely. I would certainly recommend an old small displacement Honda to capture the original feel of the journey. Heck, a couple years ago a guy rode to the Deals Gap 2-stroke meet on a Kawasaki KE100. He started in Chicago. Somehow these days there's a feeling that you need a big heavy motorcycle to take long trips. Many a Kaw S2 has gone coast to coast.
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Remember the old saying "You can never go home again" so don't look at it as re-doing anothers journey. Make your own zen with a capital Z.......
Asphalt eating comfort and speed.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hfaCbF/maxresdefault.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hfaCbF)
image album hosting (http://imgbb.com/)
That'll make a memory or two! :evil:
Paul B :boozing:
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Honestly , a late model CB 500 F probably captures the spirit better than anything . But , like RK said , it isn't about the motorcycle .
Dusty
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True , but he was riding a high tech bike for its era , not some old leaky smoky 2 stroke Soviet era junk . When Pirsig fixed something he expected it to stay fixed .
Dusty
i'd like to believe that he didn't "expect" anything... I'd have thought that he dealt with what arrived at the time and allowed himself to be carried in the moment while digesting the beauty that each moment presented. Or something...
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If I had to take a bike on a long trip, a nostalgic type ride. It would be my Eldo. It's an easy choice, not the most comfy or best handling, but it just works.
Tom
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Exactly what i thought would come from this group. Mid 70s Airheads have kept coming up on my screen. I kept my Buddies R65 after his jet crash in Vegas, for about a year, until his brother was old enough for it. I really never enjoyed riding it, either due to the memories, or the lack of horsepower, so the R65 is out. Thought about a CB750 as it was my first street bike back in 1978. I would love to do naked like Pirsig, (great pics Testarossa) :bow:, but my neck is really chewed up from too many weird g loads, AND, I like a nice quiet cockpit due to severe tinnitus. Also, our trip will be about 4 times longer than the Pirsig jaunt, so comfort is a factor. Bad neck, ringing ears...getting older has been interestingly full of paybacks. As for taking my Multi, while I love the bike, it just doesn't have that 'it' factor for the trip. My buddy is riding a Victory, however I have never had a cruiser type bike, which led me towards a Cali14. I do believe that the quality aspect of Pirsig's trip has been covered in plastic and replaced with ridiculous dependability, which leads me back to German rides. K1600GTL fits my reach and feels great, I just am not sure that I'm ready for the German Gold Wing. Great input :thumb: The looking and deciding is interesting tho
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Two thoughts :
First, without consideration of anyone else's bike, I'd ride my V700.(or my EV)
Secondly, considering someone else's bike, I'd use something similar in size, speed, capasity, so the trip could be more in synch.
or like what Teddy Roosevelt said, "use what you have...etc"
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I too have a problem with getting beaten about the head. My Bell Bullitt solved some of the problem. The rest of the problem was solved by me slowing down. Sure it meant more saddle time but when you're bucking a 35 mph headwind on a 90 mile between gas stops road there ain't anyone who's going to care that your only doing 55. on my Griso with a Dart Marlin
Mark
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From my own garage, I would take my BMW K75s on that journey. It's got enough fairing to protect you, but it's also a surprisingly sporty ride - and it just works.
If I were shopping for a new bike to do the trip, I'd want something that was also dirt-worthy. I'd be tempted to get a new Honda Africa Twin or Husqvarna 701 Enduro - but that's me and I like hitting the dirt pretty hard.
If you just want to be able to explore some dirt roads and trails a KLR650 or Suzuki DR650 would work quite well - you can put bigger windscreens on those. There is a beautiful and elemental simplicity in a carbureted thumper.
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:popcorn: a new era V7? If you want nostalgia; chose one with spokes so you get to change the inner tube on a flat.
If you want Zen; consider you have to meditate for two minutes after flashing it up before you can ride away.
Interestingly, no one here (thus far) mentioned the V7 ... Maybe it is perceived as too small for touring. :)
I think OP has already made his choice... Beemer.
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:popcorn: a new era V7? If you want nostalgia; chose one with spokes so you get to change the inner tube on a flat.
If you want Zen; consider you have to meditate for two minutes after flashing it up before you can ride away.
Interestingly, no one here (thus far) mentioned the V7 ... Maybe it is perceived as too small for touring. :)
I think OP has already made his choice... Beemer.
I like the V7 for this trip. :thumb: To suit the OP's needs, just pop on a windscreen and a set of bags. The K1600 Beemer... that's just not Zen... it isolates the rider from the experience. And what if you have to pick it up?
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WACO UPF 7
:-)
That has a certain logic :laugh:
Dusty
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There is little chance of me actually finishing reading that book. I have started it four times and always dnf. I do have a 305 super hawk though so maybe I would have a better chance of doing the ride instead of the reading
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There is little chance of me actually finishing reading that book. I have started it four times and always dnf.
My method is to leave the book in my study room, also sometimes known as "the echo chamber." I spend about ten minues in there each morning, so any book can eventually be finished.
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BMW R1100 series, either RT or the naked R; I prefer the latter, with bags and windshield added. They have the power, braking, and tubeless wheels that most of the Airheads lacked, plus fiddle free fuel injection for altitudes. They are also the first Oilheads, and lack the electronics and complexity that began with the R1150 and newer series.
And, as mentioned before, the K75 bikes are legendary for their bulletproof reliability, and have been known to run hundreds of thousands of miles with little other than basic maintenance, tires, and brakes. Boring yes, but the trip to me would be more about the being, and not just the ride.
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Let's clarify a couple of points . Mr OP , it seems that the mention of recreating Pirsig's route is a sidebar , and not the primary consideration in answering your question . Is this correct ? Are we asking a philosophical question , or a purely practical one . It seems in retrospect most of us are answering a philosophical query , and the real question is what motorcycle is best for touring in general , a completely different subject , although some motorcycling philosophy still comes into play . The real answer is whatever you are comfortable taking a trip on .
Dusty
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I too have a problem with getting beaten about the head. My Bell Bullitt solved some of the problem. The rest of the problem was solved by me slowing down. Sure it meant more saddle time but when you're bucking a 35 mph headwind on a 90 mile between gas stops road there ain't anyone who's going to care that your only doing 55. on my Griso with a Dart Marlin
Mark
I read the book way back, but can't remember much about it now. However, I doubt that Pirsig will have gone much over 50mph. At that speed, buffeting shouldn't be a problem unless you do hit high winds.
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That has a certain logic :laugh:
Dusty
I'd choose a DHC-2 Beaver (eh!). ~ had to look up the Waco reference.
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But wasn't the whole point about not trying to take something that is perfect, but about enjoying and appreciating the process of working the problem ? Am I seeing something that isn't there ? (It wouldn't be the first time).
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But wasn't the whole point about not trying to take something that is perfect, but about enjoying and appreciating the process of working the problem ? Am I seeing something that isn't there ? (It wouldn't be the first time).
Not exactly my take , but I can see how you arrived at that conclusion . Pirsig has been very reticent to discuss either of his books , honestly not sure he even really knows what they meant . I read somewhere that Chris (his son) was disappointed in the tone of the book , his memories were of just having a great time with his dad .
Dusty
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Again, a helpful dialogue. The imperfection of the bike is a factor in choice. Probably why I am not looking at K BMW bikes any longer. R75s are a very strong possibility as are a couple of 850 Eldorados. The new California was the favorite, but reliability seems to be an issue. I think the Pirsig part of the trip is about 20% of the mileage, however it is the reason for the trip. My buddy and I are always discussing "what's next" and this trip is a transitional period (retirement) for him and a sort of throwback to that first weeklong trip on my 750k for me. I don't want to be miserable after 2 or 3000 miles, but I don't want to be the techno rider either with the eurotrash leathers. Character reliability and comfort are the big 3. I've ridden German, Japanese and Italian. Actually prefer the Italian, which is why I am looking at Guzzis and asking you guys for input. I am seriously enjoying the inputs. Thanks again.
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You're not just being a tease are you Boney ? You know, get us all excited and then leave us hanging ? You know what that leads to...! Honestly you won't go wrong no matter what you choose, it'll just be better/worse but in a different way. But I can tell you and so can anyone here that's done a bit, when you get REALLY OLD, it'll be what didn't go exactly right, that you'll be most likely to bring up when you're sipping your broth through a straw...Just go to a decent dealer and buy the second one you see, it'd be foolish to buy the first ! See here's the thing. I reckon, that the Zen thing ( if there is such a thing) is about changing yourself to adapt to your surrounds, not to manufacture your environment to suit you. Now of course you'll get what you think is best, but "best" isn't always....best. See there's no way a damn Moto Guzzi is the best bike on the road, but we're chatting on this forum because we've shelled out our hard earned on something when we know there's "better" out there to be gotten. So see what a bunch of crazies you're seeking advice from... Good fun though !
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My Rokon. I would want to out crazy Persig.
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The idea of buying a bike for a specific trip just seems wrong-headed to me, and probably decadent.
If I were doing the trip, I'd take my Eldorado, no question, no screen, and expect the fix a few things along the way.
Nick
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Huzo. No tease haha. I believe you are correct on what is memorable. Not looking for the "perfect" bike, for that one does not exist. I will know, when it appears, I think. Almost pulled the trigger on a Cali14, but something says no. I have enjoyed and appreciate the input. I will follow up as this develops so you can all tell me the error of my ways. :boozing:
Bone
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OP prefers Italian, so I'll go with that. From my memory of reading the book, I think a Mille GT 1000 would be about right. Nothing with a dash that will go poof or electronics that can't be fixed through mechanical knowledge and brought-along tools.
Just so happens I saw this one...https://hickory.craigslist.org/mcy/5994459309.html
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I like the topic. Bikes have been acquired with far less justification than a trip. That said, the bike will hopefully outlast the trip - so keep that in mind. I chose a new Multistrada and am fitting a larger screen. If you like your 1100, I'd explore the aftermarket, including those clamp on adjustable spoilers. Not pretty, but neither the air-cooled Multi, nor a Victory is such a tremendous start point.
Never underestimate the importance of "pretty". The "character" of the bike will last the three weeks of the trip - the pictures much longer. Buy pretty and make up "recoverable memories" over beer in the evening? Seems like we're already enjoying your trip....
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The go to for me is the Convert! The magic carpet ride of motorcycles! With the Tonti frame and good tires will rail the corners with the best of them...
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I'd take the 850T. Built the year the book was published. The TR6R might look to be more in the spirit of the original trip but it's not as dependable as Pirsig's Honda.
BTW Pirsig was at the University of Chicago ten years ahead of my era (I graduated 1970). The people he wrote about were still around and I met some of them. Notably, Richard McKeon was chair of the committee on ideas and methods and a big shot in literary criticism. He retired in '74, the year Pirsig's book was published.
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Huzo. No tease haha. I believe you are correct on what is memorable. Not looking for the "perfect" bike, for that one does not exist. I will know, when it appears, I think. Almost pulled the trigger on a Cali14, but something says no. I have enjoyed and appreciate the input. I will follow up as this develops so you can all tell me the error of my ways. :boozing:
Bone
Now THAT is the last thing I'd do Boney. I would not presume to tell you the error of your ways, good on you for plotting such a thing.
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'Zen' be arsed! What does that mean apart from a bunch of navel-gazing, hippy-dippy bullshit.
If you want to ride across the USA you can do it on anything, the choice is yours. Something able to cruise at highway speed so you don't get run over is probably a plus!
I've undertaken several major tours of the US, all of them on very different bikes. The first in 2004 was on a 1980 V1000-I-Convert. I still own it although it hasn't turned a wheel in years. I picked it up in Detroit, rode up through Michigan then across the Mackinaw (?) bridge and then across and down to Atlanta before heading west to South Dakota for the National Rally that year. After that it was South and West through Utah, Arizona and California to Los Angeles. Trip of a lifetime and I made some good friends. All on an obsolete, automatic, shitheap with about 45HP on tap.
Next trip was on the 'Griso Pinko'. That was a West Coast trip I travelled from LA to Seattle, once again via the National in John Day in Oregon. Did most of it with Chuck from Indiana. That was a hoot, he was riding a Quota with a front wheel so bent it looked like he was riding a horse! :grin: Griso is heavy but well suspended and has about 100 ponies on tap.
Third one was a couple of years later on my Mana GT. Started in Florida and then up the eastern seaboard to Mass. Then back to DC before heading west again and once again travelling the wonders of author and Az before crossing the desert back to LA. Mana has about 65 horsies to play with and is, apart from its seat, about the 'Ultimate' light tourer.
Last trip was with Jude. We bought a Cali 1400 Touring in 2013. We got stuffed around but Piaggio USA despite having paid for the bike in full months before our trip. Ended up picking it up in Oklahoma rather than Texas but then rode the length of the Mississippi before hoping into Canada, heading east and crossing back into the US at Buffalo. Spent a few days in Ithaca where my daughter was studying at Cornell before drifting east and visiting Doug and Jaqui and Kev M, Jenn and their lovely daughter. After that? Off to visit the Hagans in VA! Once more trans-continental ending up in San Francisco before riding Big Sur and Hwy1 back down to LA. That was a fantastic three month oddesy and the biggest problem? The bike! The Cali is huge. It's also poorly designed for 'Touring', it's slow speed handling is abysmal, it doesn't have QD luggage, (You have no idea what a PITA that is on a three month trip!) it's grossly heavy and is, at least to me, utterly characterless. This may well explain why they are, for Guzzis, relatively popular. Cruise control was great though! I'll give it that! We really tried to like it but we kept thinking "Wish we were on the Mana!".
At the end of the day what bike you ride though is less important than the fact it's a bike and you can experience the fabulous beauty of the North American continent and the incredible hospitality and generosity of its people first hand. Even if it is your own country don't ever forget how very, very lucky you are. If you want to get some 'Zen' up you? Just ponder that for a bit! :evil:
Pete
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Well, Pete just helped make my 'No Cali' decision a final one. :thumb: Someone mentioned aftermarket screens for my Multi, I have 4 'deleted' screens for it in my garage already. There is no good one.
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Let's clarify a couple of points . Mr OP , it seems that the mention of recreating Pirsig's route is a sidebar , and not the primary consideration in answering your question . Is this correct ? Are we asking a philosophical question , or a purely practical one . It seems in retrospect most of us are answering a philosophical query , and the real question is what motorcycle is best for touring in general , a completely different subject , although some motorcycling philosophy still comes into play . The real answer is whatever you are comfortable taking a trip on .
Dusty
This.
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One thing I remember is that Robert Persig recognized two types of riders .
He was curious about things mechanical , and was happy to spend many hours servicing his own bike , was thoroughly familiar with it , and confident that whatever happened he could fix it himself .
In contrast , his friend on a portion of the trip , was mechanically inept , had all work to the bike done by " professionals " , and was therefore drawn toward what he perceived as the most reliable bike at the time , his BMW .
I would ride what I have , but I think I would not be tempted to follow someone else's route , especially from 40 years ago . The roads have changed .
I re-read the book just a couple of years ago ; could not get through it when it was first published .
Really thin on motorcycle maintenance and thick on defining "quality " .
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Well, if you do it on a G3L Matchless I can assure you that you would need to be well versed in the maintenance side. 4 chains with the primary and the generator chain running very close to each other. :rolleyes:
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'Zen' be arsed! What does that mean apart from a bunch of navel-gazing, hippy-dippy bullshit.
If you want to ride across the USA you can do it on anything, the choice is yours. Something able to cruise at highway speed so you don't get run over is probably a plus!
I've undertaken several major tours of the US, all of them on very different bikes. The first in 2004 was on a 1980 V1000-I-Convert. I still own it although it hasn't turned a wheel in years. I picked it up in Detroit, rode up through Michigan then across the Mackinaw (?) bridge and then across and down to Atlanta before heading west to South Dakota for the National Rally that year. After that it was South and West through Utah, Arizona and California to Los Angeles. Trip of a lifetime and I made some good friends. All on an obsolete, automatic, shitheap with about 45HP on tap.
Next trip was on the 'Griso Pinko'. That was a West Coast trip I travelled from LA to Seattle, once again via the National in John Day in Oregon. Did most of it with Chuck from Indiana. That was a hoot, he was riding a Quota with a front wheel so bent it looked like he was riding a horse! :grin: Griso is heavy but well suspended and has about 100 ponies on tap.
Third one was a couple of years later on my Mana GT. Started in Florida and then up the eastern seaboard to Mass. Then back to DC before heading west again and once again travelling the wonders of author and Az before crossing the desert back to LA. Mana has about 65 horsies to play with and is, apart from its seat, about the 'Ultimate' light tourer.
Last trip was with Jude. We bought a Cali 1400 Touring in 2013. We got stuffed around but Piaggio USA despite having paid for the bike in full months before our trip. Ended up picking it up in Oklahoma rather than Texas but then rode the length of the Mississippi before hoping into Canada, heading east and crossing back into the US at Buffalo. Spent a few days in Ithaca where my daughter was studying at Cornell before drifting east and visiting Doug and Jaqui and Kev M, Jenn and their lovely daughter. After that? Off to visit the Hagans in VA! Once more trans-continental ending up in San Francisco before riding Big Sur and Hwy1 back down to LA. That was a fantastic three month oddesy and the biggest problem? The bike! The Cali is huge. It's also poorly designed for 'Touring', it's slow speed handling is abysmal, it doesn't have QD luggage, (You have no idea what a PITA that is on a three month trip!) it's grossly heavy and is, at least to me, utterly characterless. This may well explain why they are, for Guzzis, relatively popular. Cruise control was great though! I'll give it that! We really tried to like it but we kept thinking "Wish we were on the Mana!".
At the end of the day what bike you ride though is less important than the fact it's a bike and you can experience the fabulous beauty of the North American continent and the incredible hospitality and generosity of its people first hand. Even if it is your own country don't ever forget how very, very lucky you are. If you want to get some 'Zen' up you? Just ponder that for a bit! :evil:
Pete
Yes Pete, we both know that what you say is true, especially the last bit. But it's not really the stance you took when contemplating the "right" bike for you Oz lap. From the flavour of your post, you would have just jumped on the Griso and buggered off, or was the pillion comfort factor a major consideration. I reckon the Zen thing is a bunch of new age garbage too, but I use the popular terminology so I don't have to explain myself ad nauseum. Now Mr Bone, just buy that lovely Breva that's up for grabs, Beetle it if it hasn't been done, startus fix and check oil pressure switch connection and a P ROPER service, and forget about all the other "stuff", I'm sure there's enough valves in the head to do the job just fine.
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Plato was a hippy ? Damn , I learn something everyday :shocked:
Dusty
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Well the decision was made with the heart. My buddy was thinking of getting a Guzzi franchise 4 years ago and I fell in love at first sight with the Cali Touring. Sorry Pete😜 But unless we just don't get along, she's my dance partner. Shipping in from the left coast as we speak. I look forward to getting to know her and I really appreciate all the input. 'The heart wants what it wants' and 'be careful what you wish for ' both come to mind. I'm keeping the Duc for those days when > 400 lbs just won't do.
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You've been warned. :smiley: :smiley: Hey! Have a great trip and give us a report. :thumb:
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Well the decision was made with the heart. My buddy was thinking of getting a Guzzi franchise 4 years ago and I fell in love at first sight with the Cali Touring. Sorry Pete😜 But unless we just don't get along, she's my dance partner. Shipping in from the left coast as we speak. I look forward to getting to know her and I really appreciate all the input. 'The heart wants what it wants' and 'be careful what you wish for ' both come to mind. I'm keeping the Duc for those days when > 400 lbs just won't do.
Well, you know all the worst of it. Pete's given you some data .... although "Characterless" is VERY subjective, you may think that the bike is just FULL of character.
Weight - There's lots of posts praising the mighty HD Road King. It weighs about (depending whose figures you read) 100 pounds more than a California 1400. So maybe the weight won't be an issue for you.
No quick-disconnect luggage - This WOULD be a PITRA for Fay and I. We really like being to take the luggage off the Stelvio or the Trophy and take it into the motel with us. We had a local seamstress make some nice inserts for the Stelvio bags since the TRAX bags don't have handles - maybe something similar could be done for you, OR just keep a good-fitting carry-on bag in each side .....
Good luck!! As I was riding Pete's Cali 1400 down the Colorado highway and back, I felt like I was sitting still and the earth was turning under me. It DOES have its good points!
Lannis
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YOU make the memories, the bike doesn't. It'll make bugger all difference what you're on, it will just alter the "flavour" of the trip. (BTW, should'a got a 2 VPC Norge.) :thumb:
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YOU make the memories, the bike doesn't. It'll make bugger all difference what you're on, it will just alter the "flavour" of the trip. (BTW, should'a got a 2 VPC Norge.) :thumb:
So like rhubarb VS rutabaga ?
Any bike that will get the job done will get the job done .
Dusty
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The man is still alive , heck , ask him :thumb:
Dusty
Too late now, he passed away a few weeks back, made me pull out the book and read it again, it's a struggle.
His son is not around either.
I'm sure he would approve of a Guzzi, he was all about quality after all.
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Too late now, he passed away a few weeks back, made me pull out the book and read it again, it's a struggle.
His son is not around either.
I'm sure he would approve of a Guzzi, he was all about quality after all.
Yeah , but my post was from Feb when Bob was still with us . Chris was killed in about 1985 .
I've wondered about what Bob would ride in his later years , he didn't mind doing a bit of fetteling
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Well the decision was made with the heart. My buddy was thinking of getting a Guzzi franchise 4 years ago and I fell in love at first sight with the Cali Touring. Sorry Pete😜 But unless we just don't get along, she's my dance partner. Shipping in from the left coast as we speak. I look forward to getting to know her and I really appreciate all the input. 'The heart wants what it wants' and 'be careful what you wish for ' both come to mind. I'm keeping the Duc for those days when > 400 lbs just won't do.
Ha ha, I've made mistakes buying bikes before... But never I think when I followed my heart instead of my head.
Best of luck and enjoy.
Lannis, more like only 50# at most IIRC, I'll check my figures when I hit my desk.
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I would take my Eldorado if I was planning on duplicating that ride. Dead reliable, in the spirit of the thing, and completely capable of crossing the country at 45-50mph, which is probably what Pirsig managed with that 305, two-up with gear.
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This question can be answered in at least two ways. The best touring bike for you or the best bike to recreate the spirit of the journey. Either answer will be interesting but the latter seems more thought provoking so I will try at the latter. Clearly the bike chosen would have to be small with a fairly low cruising speed or old enough that the cruising speed would still be slow. To take a newer touring or adventure bike would not be in the spirit of things. For me, being mechanically challenged, a Yamaha XT250 with an aftermarket seat might be the ticket.
A couple of years ago a fellow in the local vintage club rode a Honda 50 passport from coast to coast. That was one journey I would not want to duplicate!
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Lannis, more like only 50# at most IIRC, I'll check my figures when I hit my desk.
Could be, I just looked up several sources for "wet" or "curb" weight and averaged them.
Manufacturers will lie about that stuff like an aging movie star will lie about her age ..... !
Lannis
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Lannis, more like only 50# at most IIRC, I'll check my figures when I hit my desk.
Lannis, let me correct myself, holy crap you're right.
How the hell did the Audace lose nearly 100# from the Cali 1400T?
That puts the Audace at more than 150# lighter than the RK!
Honestly if that's true that should make it a very interesting possible alternative to anyone who is comparing an RK and Cali 1400 and is looking for minimal weight. I realize you'd add some of it back with bags and a shield, but still.
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Lannis, let me correct myself, holy crap you're right.
How the hell did the Audace lose nearly 100# from the Cali 1400T?
That puts the Audace at more than 150# lighter than the RK!
Honestly if that's true that should make it a very interesting possible alternative to anyone who is comparing an RK and Cali 1400 and is looking for minimal weight. I realize you'd add some of it back with bags and a shield, but still.
I'm getting more sensitive to motorcycle weight as time marches on. I own the two heaviest motorcycles I'll ever own again right now .... the '09 Stelvio at about 560 wet (4.9 gallon tank) and the '14 Triumph Trophy at 660 pounds wet (7 gallon tank).
They're wonderful at speed on the road, but horsing them around the shop or onto the lift, pulling into a gravel parking lot, pushing them through iffy footing, or stopping on a dodgy shoulder is a butt-clenching experience which I will not duplicate in the future.
I've got 'em because Fay and I have a lot of two-up riding planned in the next few years, and these are both good-fitting luxury liners for us - we just don't do well on the HD/Gold Wing "standard touring" bikes, we fit much better on a sport-touring sort of thing, we're just angled that way; forward instead of backward.
In the 70s and 80s, Fay and I did a lot of riding together on an RD400 Yamaha and an R65 BMW. You can't scream down the interstate at 85 MPH two up on those, but then again we won't need to ... there's no reason that a 40 HP 425 pound bike can't do every single thing we want to do .... and do it WAY cheaper and easier overall than a Big Bike !
Lannis
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The 'zen' is not about what your ride or where you ride but rather about your state of mind. If ya got a schedule and a planned route, well, you're not going to achieve the 'zen'.
I've been across country many times, the best trips where those without schedule of specific destination, none were better then the trip on a Vespa 300 in 2012. Purchased it in Las Vegas, road to L. A. to play in the canyons for a few days, then to San Diego for the 600 service, PCH, Yosemite, Mesa Az., Luckenbach/Austin Tx., then home to Florida. 28 days, 5+K miles, ate when hungry, slept when tired, rode only when I wanted, stayed over when I felt like I wanted to explore locally or to ride with folks I met along the way, made new friends, picked my way around local roads with no daily plan. Did a similar trip last year for 6 weeks, my only 'plan' was to visit a friend in Coeur d'Alene Idaho.
The new rider says lets go here or there, the old timers say 'lets ride'!!!
Paul
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Paul , that is the concept at work here . The trip was done in 1967 or '68 , guessing if Bob had made the trip in 2000 he would have done so on a 1997 model of something .
Dusty
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Paul, I understand 'just riding'. This one is an exercise in symbolism for him. My buddy is retiring and is a big fan of Pirsig. This is a ride he has wanted to do for a while. He has sold his Bimmers and Ducs and is riding a Victory and a Triumph now. He's taking the Victory on this one. I could do this on my Duc, or any bike, but wanted a like bike, that I liked. 🤓 As usual, there's a destination, but it's not about the destination, it's about the journey. Picking a bike was to balance the wants, needs and the crucial, 'other' factors. This is my first Guzzi. I think for a trip around the perimeter, and a destination in Sa Fran, the Cali is a decent pick for the journey. I have enjoyed the search.
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There'd be no point asking THE MAN, anyway. You're looking for something on your horizon not his. It's a fairly decent chunk of jingoistic crap all this "zen" stuff. I'd wager there'd be few of us here that could give a passable explanation of what it actually is anyway, simply because it's different things to different people, so you go looking for yourself. I've kind of lost the thread of where you're up to in your planning, just get on the bike and GO !! Oh, and as for re creating rides, last year I thought I'd do the Uppsala run that the Ghost Rider did. 70 km in under 15 mins, I took 40... Should have kept the mystique and not spoiled the dream by turning it into reality.
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You might be interested in Mark Richardson: Zen and Now: On the Trail of Robert Pirsig and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.
"Whenever possible, I plan to stick to the same route and the same rest stops and see how much remains. Pirsig was sometimes vague about names but always precise in description, so I expect to find the way. He left in July, and today's July 18; the journey should take two weeks, ending in San Francisco on my birthday ... I'm not the first to travel this road and sure won't be the last, but all that really matters right now, as the heat bears down and the landscape begins to flatten, is that the front tire stays true to the west. The rest will follow."
Used copies are available on bookfinder.com