Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: swooshdave on February 26, 2017, 07:36:45 PM
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(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3761/33139156525_87cfd6ca00_c.jpg)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C1AOSVS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2508/32756405580_3b0ca5d6fb_c.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2831/32756406190_771239f086_c.jpg)
The heatsink and fan is built into the bulb area unlike some bulbs that have it back by the plug where there isn't any room on Italian headlight shells.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3747/32756404960_d2fe27260d_c.jpg)
Stock bulb height.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/731/32756406950_d8716ca78d_c.jpg)
LED bulb height.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3672/32756407140_a1fc0ca06e_c.jpg)
Wiring but I forgot the rubber raincoat so I had to take it all apart again. So an extra 5 mins...
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2711/33139155195_00dba4863f_c.jpg)
If you've ever ridden with someone with a LED headlight the light is really bright, drivers really notice the difference.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/655/33139155685_ec90f54054_c.jpg)
From this angle you can see effect of the fan/heatsink on the bottom of the bulb. It doesn't seem to throw any less light. And it's going to tax the charging system way less. 20W instead of 55W. Now I'l be able to run my heated grips with no fear.
I need to get my turn signals working before I can ride at night and see what it looks like. In the meantime I appreciate the bright light during the day to catch the nearly blind drivers we have on the road.
All for under $20.
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Terry Vrla (Wirespokes) runs one on his T. I followed him home from Grants Pass one night in the rain and was impressed by the output.
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I got one that looks identical from a Chinese seller on eBay. It was advertised as working on any voltage from 6 to 36, but would not operate on 6v. I told the seller that I had bought it for use on a motorcycle with a 6v system, and he refunded the $12 I had paid without asking for the unit to be returned. It seems to work well on 12v.
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I got one that looks identical from a Chinese seller on eBay. It was advertised as working on any voltage from 6 to 36, but would not operate on 6v. I told the seller that I had bought it for use on a motorcycle with a 6v system, and he refunded the $12 I had paid without asking for the unit to be returned. It seems to work well on 12v.
This one is for 12v.
Where is North Central North Carolina? Reidsville?
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Matt - If the T3 has an LED headlight, it's news to me. I'll have to check. Got the bike last year, no issues with the light so no need to inspect or fix.
There's been a big discussion on LED headlights on ADV rider, and the main issue has been light scatter - going where it shouldn't. Would you say this light beam is cut off properly?
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Matt - If the T3 has an LED headlight, it's news to me. I'll have to check. Got the bike last year, no issues with the light so no need to inspect or fix.
There's been a big discussion on LED headlights on ADV rider, and the main issue has been light scatter - going where it shouldn't. Would you say this light beam is cut off properly?
It looked like a good spread to me. I wouldn't change it.
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This one is for 12v.
Where is North Central North Carolina? Reidsville?
The box mine came in says 10-16 volts, so I don't know why the seller claimed 6-36. Not far from Reidsville, a little east of there.
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The box mine came in says 10-16 volts, so I don't know why the seller claimed 6-36. Not far from Reidsville, a little east of there.
My brother is in Reidsville. He has a T3.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff192/swooshdave/2016%20Barber/IMG_4543_zpsxvb9tytj.jpg)
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A beautifult T3, too.
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A beautifult T3, too.
Previously owned by "Ambogal" Pat Galbraith.
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Previously owned by "Ambogal" Pat Galbraith.
She took really good care of it!
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I bought on of those from AdvMonster, paid twice as much. It died within the first 150 miles. Sent it back, he's supposed to send me a new one. I guess I should do some more shopping around.
I bought it because it is supposed to fit all H4 applications - not exactly true. The headlight bucket on my 2016 V7II Stone is "short". I measured from the mounting surface to the ends of the terminals. The OEM bulb was 28mm, this LED bulb was 31.5mm. I found the specs for H4 bulbs on line - 32mm max. So the bulb was within spec and MG had cut corners. So, I needed 2 mm - I decided that I could trim 1mm off each end of the connector. Did that and it all fit.
The bulb has low beam cut-off, not as crisp as I would like, but OK.
Also, I had to remove the black trim piece in the hole in the reflector that the bulb fits thru.
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(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3761/33139156525_87cfd6ca00_c.jpg)
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01C1AOSVS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
All for under $20.
I have not seen that.
Hmmmmm, fan on the top. Usually the heat comes from the base of the LED. Hence the fan on the backside. I'll bookmark this in case I need it later.
Hey, here's another one-
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MPXS2KS?psc=1
Upon further reading, these put out 2000 lumens. The new Cyclops puts out 7000 lumens-
http://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/7000-Lumen-H4-LED-Headlight-Bulb_p_169.html
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Hmmmmm, fan on the top. Usually the heat comes from the base of the LED. Hence the fan on the backside.
The base of the LED is the back of the yellow rectangle. In this design, it's glued to an extruded aluminum bar with a lot of fins on the back side (far side in the photo) that conducts heat away. The fan blows air parallel to the fins. As long as heat can get out of the bulb area, it could work well. The only two paths that I know of are through the aluminum reflector (not a lot of air flow on the back side) and through the glass (lots of air flow, but poor conductor of heat).
I may glue a thermocouple on mine when I try it, and see what the heat sink temperature is in use.
Many of the LED bulbs I've seen have a longer path for the heat to get out, because the LEDs are glued to a post that conducts heat all the way down through the reflector, where a fan blows air on a heat sink the post is attached to. This is the way the Cyclops bulb you have does it. The path to get heat to the fan in this design is longer, but the air in the back of the bucket may be cooler. My Cyclops bulb failed when I ran it on high beam for an extended period and all three LED elements were lit, so I suspect that heat removal scheme is not adequate.
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The bucket needs a hole in it; for that Cyclops LED headlight, and most others. That's why the OP's choice is attractive; it's the same length as a halogen.
However, I am worried about the heat; the reflector on my V7 is plated plastic. I assume they had tested, otherwise they are going to have a lot of pissed off ex-customers.
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The bucket needs a hole in it; for that Cyclops LED headlight, and most others.
It fits the Bosch headlight bucket that's on my Mille (not stock) without modification, but I realize it won't fit all buckets.
However, I am worried about the heat; the reflector on my V7 is plated plastic. I assume they had tested, otherwise they are going to have a lot of pissed off ex-customers.
I'm afraid that many or most of the new LED bulbs are being sold faster than they're being tested. And I really don't like the advertising claims like "50,000 hour bulb life" when they mean that the LED emitter itself is specified by its manufacturer as having that life under strict conditions of temperature and current. The actual product in use may or may not comply with these strict conditions, and the electronic driver circuit is a separate component, and its live has nothing to do with the LED emitter life.
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I have not seen that.
Hmmmmm, fan on the top. Usually the heat comes from the base of the LED. Hence the fan on the backside. I'll bookmark this in case I need it later.
Hey, here's another one-
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MPXS2KS?psc=1
Dang, I like that one better! Luckily I have more bikes to convert!
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The base of the LED is the back of the yellow rectangle. In this design, it's glued to an extruded aluminum bar with a lot of fins on the back side (far side in the photo) that conducts heat away. The fan blows air parallel to the fins. As long as heat can get out of the bulb area, it could work well. The only two paths that I know of are through the aluminum reflector (not a lot of air flow on the back side) and through the glass (lots of air flow, but poor conductor of heat).
I may glue a thermocouple on mine when I try it, and see what the heat sink temperature is in use.
Many of the LED bulbs I've seen have a longer path for the heat to get out, because the LEDs are glued to a post that conducts heat all the way down through the reflector, where a fan blows air on a heat sink the post is attached to. This is the way the Cyclops bulb you have does it. The path to get heat to the fan in this design is longer, but the air in the back of the bucket may be cooler. My Cyclops bulb failed when I ran it on high beam for an extended period and all three LED elements were lit, so I suspect that heat removal scheme is not adequate.
I have several of the Cyclops LED's, 2 on my Stelvio. They run almost constantly on high beam. I've also made several all-day 12 hour trips on high beam. No failures yet.
I have a Cyclops 7000 lumen version for a BMW but have not yet installed it.
The front fan LED's make me wonder if the space inside the reflector won't get hot and inhibit the cooling function.
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The front fan LED's make me wonder if the space inside the reflector won't get hot and inhibit the cooling function.
I wonder if it will get too hot and ruin the bulb and/or ruin the plating on the plastic reflector on my V7.
Cyclops has assured me that their bulbs, with the fan outside of the reflector, will be fine, even in a closed housing such as the V7.
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What I don't understand is 20w vs 55w, yet there seems to be a lot more heat generated with LED bulbs. I can't imagine an incandescent bulb being more efficient (i.e. light output vs power input), so what's astray with my thinking?
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What I don't understand is 20w vs 55w, yet there seems to be a lot more heat generated with LED bulbs. I can't imagine an incandescent bulb being more efficient (i.e. light output vs power input), so what's astray with my thinking?
There's more heat generated with incandescent bulbs, but they don't care, they're designed for it, and make light from getting hot. LEDs on the other hand suffer from reduced light output with temperature, and if allowed to get hot enough, can be damaged. So even though they don't make as much heat, the heat they do make needs to be removed to keep them cool.
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There's more heat generated with incandescent bulbs, but they don't care, they're designed for it, and make light from getting hot. LEDs on the other hand suffer from reduced light output with temperature, and if allowed to get hot enough, can be damaged. So even though they don't make as much heat, the heat they do make needs to be removed to keep them cool.
Makes sense. Thank you!
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What I don't understand is 20w vs 55w, yet there seems to be a lot more heat generated with LED bulbs. I can't imagine an incandescent bulb being more efficient (i.e. light output vs power input), so what's astray with my thinking?
Another way to look at it.
Some fictitious numbers for my example here, but you will get the idea.
20w and 55w are not light output, but rather are power consumed.
So, for example, a LED may create 10w of light and create 10w of waste heat in the process (think about the cooling system in your car).
Meanwhile the halogen/incandescent bulb create a bit less than 10w of light, and creates 40w+ of waste heat.
The fans and heat sinks are needed to move the heat away from the actual LEDs which would be damaged if allowed to get too hot.
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Another way to look at it.
Some fictitious numbers for my example here, but you will get the idea.
20w and 55w are not light output, but rather are power consumed.
So, for example, a LED may create 10w of light and create 10w of waste heat in the process (think about the cooling system in your car).
Meanwhile the halogen/incandescent bulb create a bit less than 10w of light, and creates 40w+ of waste heat.
The fans and heat sinks are needed to move the heat away from the actual LEDs which would be damaged if allowed to get too hot.
Ligh emissions has traditionally been expressed in wattage but I have no idea why because I believe the correct method is by lumens. Perhaps back in the olden days of early electricity it was easier to measure watts than lumens? Now I'm curious and could end up down some dimly lit internet rabbit hole...
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One of the primary benefits of LED has been the lower power consumption required to power them. Typically, only a fraction of the wattage required of an incandescent bulb was needed for comparable light output of an LED.
This continues to be true for many LED's. However, the 7000 lumen Cyclops LED H-4 is up there in wattage demand with a traditional halogen bulb, 55-60 watts. Of course, the contention is that light output from the LED is greater than the halogen.
On the other hand, the HID systems normally require only 35 watts and their light output is difficult to match by current LED's. The 7000 lumen Cyclops is catching up but at a cost of higher wattage demand.
I have several HID systems as well as more than one LED system. My experience is that the HID light output is superior to ALL of the LED bulbs I have tried. HID is amazing.
The problem with HID is all the hardware associated with the system- a ballast and igniter and lots of connecting wires. Another problem is that sometimes the power spike associated with the high voltage HID igniter pulse, can play havoc with onboard electronics. I have a 650 BMW with HID and if the HID lamp is energized during the bike's initial switch-on diagnostic run, my dash computer is wiped out of data.
For the BMW 650, I am in the process of installing the 7000 lumen Cyclops LED. For my Harley Dyna that is increasingly becoming my dependable most-used ride, I have recently installed another HID system that puts out a phenomenal amount of light with no electronic glitches.
LED's are becoming the latest trend due to their easy installation. However, as they gain in light output at the cost of wattage requirements similar to halogen, you may want to reconsider an HID system. The HID system delivers unmatched light output for only 35 watts.
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I have an LED main light in the rodekyll (proper conversion of the entire headlight reflector/bulbs using a 35w trucklight series 7) and a pair of 55w HID aux lights properly set up in projectors. Before the HID's were added, the LED was acceptably bright, and brighter than the halogen it replaced by a significant amount. But when I hit the HIDs they completely bleach out the bluer color of the LED main light. The LED simply disappears. Since these are proper conversions, the scatter is minimal and the cutoffs are very sharp. But the 55w HID are so stupid-bright (now there's an oxymoron) that I used hi/lo beam (bi-xenon) projectors and wired them in to the dimmer switch.
The trike has a 35w HID main light and the same 55w HID aux lights as I made for the rodekyll. This main light is a mickey-mouse "conversion" of the 8" EV headlight. That is, I stuffed a bi-xenon HID bulb in an oem guzzi headlight bucket -- much the same as the mickey-mouse conversions being discussed here. The 35w main beam annoys oncoming traffic regardless of whether it's on bright or low, and regardless of where I point it. The bulb is not designed to play well with the oem headlight assembly and has scatter as it's middle name. It's first name is one of those several adjectives that you don't hear in church. It has an 'eyelid' to corral some of the stray light, but it's most definitely an offender. I have to keep it pointed so far down that it's useless to me on low beam, except to light up the near edges of the overall light pattern. You might think it would be the MUCH brighter 55w aux lights that annoy, but I've experimented with main beam only, aux beams only, and the combination. Whenever the main beam is lit, on high or low, I get "feedback" from oncoming drivers, even on divided freeways. Cut the main beam and the complaints stop. So it's focus and scatter, not raw lumens that bother folks.
The 55w aux lights do not bother oncoming traffic on low. On high beam the effect is like that scene in the Indiana Jones movie when they open the box. I think they'd start a brush fire at 1000yds if I had them on while stopped. The difference is the level of 'conversion'. If you're going to do LED or HID, you need to do it completely. Stuffing a cheap offshore bulb into the existing housing just blasts unfocused. unaimed light downrange. It does the rider little good, and does oncoming traffic no good at all. The quality difference using a proper reflector for LED and a complete projector for HID is the difference between night and day.
$0.02
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Stuffing a cheap offshore bulb into the existing housing just blasts unfocused. unaimed light downrange. It does the rider little good, and does oncoming traffic no good at all. The quality difference using a proper reflector for LED and a complete projector for HID is the difference between night and day.
$0.02
Unfocused and unaimed? It's light in front of a reflector. The light comes out of the front of the headlight and onto the ground. Win!
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On the strength of this thread I ordered and fitted one of these bulbs to my T3, as I was replacing the old battery with a Odyssey AGM model. Ilive in London: A lot of my riding is in town,with the lights on draining the battery away. I found the light to be very good on dipped beam, much brighter while the high beam is a bit ... meh. Seems too focused , but Ill have to take it out of town one night to try out properly.
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Tonight, I finished installation of the H-4 LED 7000 lumen bulb from Cyclops.
I had been running an HID conversion in this particular bike (BMW 650) for several years and it interfered with my electronics.
My only reason for going to LED was the electronic issue with the HID since that set-up produced an enormous amount of light.
Converting back to LED too some surgery in my case but the deed is done and I took the bike out for a test run after dark.
The LED performs okay, I guess. Absolutely no way near the light output of the HID, though. Maybe its my reflector.
I plan to keep the LED for now but I am not at all impressed with it.
The two in my Stelvio do much better and they are the "older" 3800 lumen version. Still, even those in the Stelvio are no where near the light output of the HID.
In fact, I'd say the standard halogen does as well as the LED conversions but the color of the halogens is too yellow.
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I don't think my LED headlight has any better than halogen output, either. Bluer, but not brighter. But it does have a significantly lower energy budget than halogen. It allows me to run HID aux lights that the alternator couldn't otherwise keep up with. For me that's an acceptable tradeoff.
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Well, the rub for me is that this LED uses as much power as a halogen!
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Well, the rub for me is that this LED uses as much power as a halogen!
How do you figure that? the LED is 20 watt, Halogen are 55/60 watt.
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My trucklite LED is 35w total drain.
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How do you figure that? the LED is 20 watt, Halogen are 55/60 watt.
The Cyclops is 25/50 so if you run it on high all the time it will be close to the halogen on low.
To reiterate I tend to ride my old bike around town and in the daylight. Make sure you make the right lighting decisions based on your riding style and lighting needs. What works for me may not be best for you.
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25W on low, 50W on high
http://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/7000-Lumen-H4-LED-Headlight-Bulb_p_169.html
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25W on low, 50W on high
http://www.cyclopsadventuresports.com/7000-Lumen-H4-LED-Headlight-Bulb_p_169.html
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Now I understand. I forgot that you had been talking about the 7000 lumen LED. I was thinking about the more common LEDs.
I noticed this in the 7000 description "(Do not expect this bulb to last longer than your vehicle)".
This translates to me as "Carry a spare bulb".
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Now I understand. I forgot that you had been talking about the 7000 lumen LED. I was thinking about the more common LEDs.
I noticed this in the 7000 description "(Do not expect this bulb to last longer than your vehicle)".
This translates to me as "Carry a spare bulb".
It translates to me as "This bulb will die a scant few seconds before the bike and you do." :evil:
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It translates to me as "This bulb will die a scant few seconds before the bike and you do." :evil:
Specs say 30,000 hours. The same as the previous 3800 lumen version.
I just got a message from Darryl, at Cyclops. He says my problem is the reflector design....
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I used to try explaining reflectors and parabolas and lenses and such in this context, but I got shouted down so much by folks who didn't care that I quit.
Quote from unnamed source: "Unfocused and unaimed? It's light in front of a reflector. The light comes out of the front of the headlight and onto the ground. Win!"
How's a guy supposed to discuss that?
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I used to try explaining reflectors and parabolas and lenses and such in this context, but I got shouted down so much by folks who didn't care that I quit.
Quote from unnamed source: "Unfocused and unaimed? It's light in front of a reflector. The light comes out of the front of the headlight and onto the ground. Win!"
How's a guy supposed to discuss that?
It goes back to my point on how you are going to use the bike. Like I said I just need something mostly during the day around town. Bright and annoying for the people in 2 ton killing machines to see. I made no claims about it working great for touring at night.
You can name the source, I have my big boy diapers on! :shocked:
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It goes back to my point on how you are going to use the bike. Like I said I just need something mostly during the day around town. Bright and annoying for the people in 2 ton killing machines to see. I made no claims about it working great for touring at night.
You can name the source, I have my big boy diapers on! :shocked:
I understand the application -- basically you ride daylight only. For the incidental night use, for you it doesn't matter. I have no problem with that, and didn't mean to come across as picking on you.
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I understand the application -- basically you ride daylight only. For the incidental night use, for you it doesn't matter. I have no problem with that, and didn't mean to come across as picking on you.
I'll be right back, need to change my diaper. I pee when people pick on me... :grin:
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I recall reading a thread on LED bulbs and one of the guys found he got much better light 'direction?' 'focusing?' by tilting the bulb a little. The idea being that the light source wasn't positioned in the correct place to bounce it off the reflector properly.
What HID would you recommend? It seems they have about the same power consumption as the LEDs.
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I got components for mine through
http://www.ddmtuning.com/index.php
I used the projector and bulb kits to make these:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eVVDJv/hid_harness_and_lamps_1.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eVVDJv)
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Update. I received another message from Cyclops. They suggested I try the aiming spacer they provided (I didn't realize it was in the box) and see if it helps. I installed it and will try it tonight.
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What HID would you recommend? It seems they have about the same power consumption as the LEDs.
I have bought several from various sources on Ebay. They're cheap. I go for the thin ballast types that have molded weatherproof wire connectors at the ballast etc.