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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: pitts12driver on March 28, 2017, 11:53:50 PM
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I'm rebuilding an inherited '96 1100 sport. The transmission is rough: output shaft rusty and missing splines, second gear doesn't want to stay engaged. I'm trying to decide if I rebuild it, or swap it. Not knowing much about Moto Guzzis (I'm learning - this is my second) - I am trying to understand what else would fit and function well.
There is a 2006 1100 Breva box on ebay for a decent price - does anyone know if that will bolt up and function???
thx in advance...
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Interesting question. I'd replace it. Don't know for sure about the Breva box. I don't put things back where they belong, so I know it bolts up to the engine, but I don't know about the mounts and drive shaft. This will bump you back to the top where someone can answer better.
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I think you can use almost all 5-speed boxes. Not the 6-speed versions.
Do not rebuild it. You will have trouble getting the correct parts - and if you do, it will cost alot.
Missing splines is standard for the 1100 Sport - it comes due to that the outgoing axle (UNI) is screwed tightly against the splined axel. This must lead to 2 broken splines on the axle. It happens everytime, but you can live with it.
Rolf
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None of the six speeds, old or new, will work. Wheel offset and length of the unit, not to mention clutch differences, mean that if you have a Tonti you're essentially stuck with a five speed.
Pete
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And not all 5 speeds are the same. The 1100 sport has racing gears, straight cut, hard to find a good one.
When repairing you allways find more problems so costs go up, but in the end you know it's a good one.
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None of the six speeds, old or new, will work. Wheel offset and length of the unit, not to mention clutch differences, mean that if you have a Tonti you're essentially stuck with a five speed.
Pete
The Sport isn't a spine frame?
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The Sport isn't a spine frame?
Yes. The Sport 1100 is a spine frame, but only the 5-speed boxes will work.
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Spine frame will hold the v11 6 speed nox, box more is needed next to the box, think swingarm, reardrive, axle with joints. And a frame mod that is harder with the sport carb because of the fixed front frame. Anything can be done. :-)
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The Kid and I swapped the internals from a low mileage 02 5 speed into his 96 Spot gearbox. Easy Peasey.
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how about something unique? convert/sport :wink:
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The Sport isn't a spine frame?
Sorry, my mistake, put it down to the heat :laugh: but a five speed spiney still won't take a six speed. All sorts of issues with shaft offset and length of the box.
As Paul mentions the Carb Sports all use a straight cut box with three dog engagement. They were also built at a time when quality control was at best dubious. If ridden around at low RPM the gearboxes will beat themselves to death in pretty short order. Best bet is to swap out the helically cut internals of a five or six dog box, they are a much stronger thing.
Pete
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Sorry, my mistake, put it down to the heat :laugh: but a five speed spiney still won't take a six speed. All sorts of issues with shaft offset and length of the box.
As Paul mentions the Carb Sports all use a straight cut box with three dog engagement. They were also built at a time when quality control was at best dubious. If ridden around at low RPM the gearboxes will beat themselves to death in pretty short order. Best bet is to swap out the helically cut internals of a five or six dog box, they are a much stronger thing.
Pete
But can you use the guts from and from five speed box like from a Tonti?
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You Can Use The Internals From A Five Speed But Different Ratios.
You Can Use The External Case But You Need To Machine The Two Top Most Mounting Holes, The Rear Mounting Boss And Machine Off The Rear Collar Where The Rubber Boot Attaches.
Much Easier To Just Swap The Guts.
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Ok - I'm sold. Any idea where I can find "the guts"? Specifically a 6-dog set to swap out?
Also - since I'll be in there - any guidance on clutches is welcomed
thx!
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Ok - I'm sold. Any idea where I can find "the guts"? Specifically a 6-dog set to swap out?
Also - since I'll be in there - any guidance on clutches is welcomed
thx!
If you missed it on the V11 forum, the Kid has a 6 dog set. Yours for the postage he paid from Australia and postage to you.
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clutches:
i hear good things about the sdtech
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=1165
its on my list for the '97 1100sporti.
i am interested in this kevlar unit though. pricier but - kevlar. no feedback on this unit though.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=4749
sureflex - not so much
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If you're going into the box to swap the internals you will need a special socket to remove and re-assemble the input nut. Also possibly one for the output but you can get away with some normal sockets
Here there are 2 write ups about the 5 speed box, both are about Tonti framed Guzzis but the boxes are pretty much identical to the 1100 sport (I rebuilt an 1100 too)
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/gb_en_complex-technical_gearbox-shimming-pictures.htm (http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/gb_en_complex-technical_gearbox-shimming-pictures.htm)
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/gb_en_complex-technical_gearbox-rebuilding-pictures.htm (http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzitech.dk/gb_en_complex-technical_gearbox-rebuilding-pictures.htm)
Anyway Pete's write up is for those a bit more familiar with the boxes.
Mine is a bodger's guide (as I am an incompetent bodger)
Pete's write up does tell you how to go about shimming the selector drum which is well worth checking.
Might give you an idea of what you're getting into, or not the boxes are pretty simple and providing you take it slow and steady fairly easy to open, replace parts and close up.
Hope these help
As you're in California I cannot help with the special socket but maybe somebody on here closer your location might be kind and lend you said socket.
Good Luck
John
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You do yourself a dis-service John. Your write up is much more clearly understandable than my ramblings and your bikes bear witness to the fact you are far from a bodger!
Pete
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clutches:
i hear good things about the sdtech
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=1165
its on my list for the '97 1100sporti.
i am interested in this kevlar unit though. pricier but - kevlar. no feedback on this unit though.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=4749
sureflex - not so much
If you use the SD-TEC plates, also buy the slightly longer outer body with two o-rings.
http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=193&products_id=4793
The SD-TEC plates are a little thicker and the double o-ring outer body compensates with the added bonus of sealing that bore better.
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So...
Just having drug home a '97 1100 Sport- what sort of goo can I put in the trans to aid in life support until it gets a replacement? Some old 140wt dinosaur poop? Corn head grease?
Then there's the injection... Power Commander or Jeffries MyECU?
Keep the airbox or toss it?
Everyone's favorite slipons?
Ain't this fun?
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If you are confident then the MyECU is the goods. I use it on my Centauro but there needs to be Lambda sensing in my opinion if you are going to do it right. I have just purchased this week an Innovate DLG-1 to install and do the fine tuning. I will also use this on the SPIII for tuning. Starts are hard to sort if you ride in big temperature variations. It takes time to get it working.
The air box is fine on the Centauro.
I use Agostinis and they sound GREAT!
Adam
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If you are confident then the MyECU is the goods. I use it on my Centauro but there needs to be Lambda sensing in my opinion if you are going to do it right. I have just purchased this week an Innovate DLG-1 to install and do the fine tuning. I will also use this on the SPIII for tuning. Starts are hard to sort if you ride in big temperature variations. It takes time to get it working.
The air box is fine on the Centauro.
I use Agostinis and they sound GREAT!
Adam
I've installed EFI on my '68 Dodge Charger and it runs quite well. I used to run a motorcycle dyno, have a couple friends who still do and can install O2 bungs myself. The MyECU is what my gut said to do, mostly because it stands alone and doesn't depend on the 20 year old Marelli unit in the bike.
I guess since I don't do much 100mph+ riding, the airbox is a liability.
Agos on the list...
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The air box was/is removed with the factory Daytona race kits, and doing so on a Centauro in conjunction with individual filters along the lines of the Kits adds roughly 5-7 HP at the rear wheel.