Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ncdan on March 31, 2017, 03:48:05 PM
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Ok guys, question for the day. Here's the senecio.
You are going for a spin on your favorite twisty today and suddenly have a premonition that you are going to take a spill due to hitting an oil slick in the middle of a curve at 50 mph and skid for a while on your person. Shrugging off the feeling as BS, decide to ride. You have two jackets, one good quality leather motorcycle jacket and one good quality textile motorcycle jacket. Which one will you decide to put on for the ride? Seriously, I ride in both , just curious as to how my fellow riders here think about the subject.
Have a great weekend guys!
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Stay home today - go riding tomorrow. If all things are equal comfort wise pick the jacket that has better abrasion resistance and impact protection. Leather could be half a mm thick and the textile could be one of those super protective Columbia jackets...
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My choice would be the leather as I have slid a long ways in one and never had it wear through. But that is strictly a personal opinion, choose whatever you are the most comfortable with or like the least as it will be trash afterwords!
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Depends of the type of oil slick, would hate to get synthetic on my leather, or worse gear lube :laugh:
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I always wear my very old 'Stich but it has fairly new armor and that's why.
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Leather :1:
On top of that, even if you do go down which I hope you don't, the oil can shine up your coat... :afro:
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Depends of the type of oil slick, would hate to get synthetic on my leather, or worse gear lube :laugh:
I'm with you (sorta) - Oil is good for leather, so that would be my choice if it's engine oil, but if it's transmission or final drive oil then I stay home.
But all I own is fabric, so ...
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Ok guys, question for the day. Here's the senecio.
You are going for a spin on your favorite twisty today and suddenly have a premonition that you are going to take a spill due to hitting an oil slick in the middle of a curve at 50 mph and skid for a while on your person. Shrugging off the feeling as BS, decide to ride. You have two jackets, one good quality leather motorcycle jacket and one good quality textile motorcycle jacket. Which one will you decide to put on for the ride? Seriously, I ride in both , just curious as to how my fellow riders here think about the subject.
Have a great weekend guys!
I think if you must ride after a bad feeling about the ride, by all means wear both. Me, I'd put it off till tomorrow. :boozing:
I ride for fun, but I dress for impact. I have a very good armored "Xpert" leather jacket from Eagle Leather that weighs about 10# and would probably go the distance. I also have an armored Tourmaster textile jacket that weighs about the same and is probably as good as it gets in touring gear. The leather is only good to about 50º and is useless in the rain. The textile gets too hot above 70º, but sheds water well and is hi-viz. So for me, if I had to ride when my spidey senses told me there was trouble ahead, and there always is, I'd dress for the weather.
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Lol, good well thought out responses so far. I realize it's a controversial subject but there is a better choice of the two as the results of extremely in depth research which I will hold out going into but I'll offer a hint. The next motorcycle road race that's on tv or live make a note of the ridding suit materials the racers are wearing;)
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my choice would be the outift that had the En-1621 (1&2) armor inside. the old school notion was that you needed leather for its skid resistance but the new fabric composites have plenty of skid resistance. a decent jacket will have decent armor. i wound up replacing my old leather jacket with a tourmaster textile with crappy stock armor (its just a craptastic foam pad.) after that i shopped around and talked myself into a clover textile jacket but when it came time to tally up the cost i balked. instead i went with the firstgear kilmanjaro with upgraded d3o armor. so far, so good, i am relatively rain proof and acceptably skid resistant.
the thing that motivate me to migrate away from the leather jacket and levi's was the day i got caught out in the rain very far from home. i got home, hung the jacket up to dry out (haven't worn it since) and went shopping for a textile jacket pants/combo.
i have a joe rocket survivor suit for longer rides. i replaced the armor with D3O. its not a 'stich but i really like it.
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Ride around the oil slick :rolleyes:
Dusty
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Premonitions are hokum. Just ride.
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Premonitions are hokum. Just ride.
Lol nick, the jest of the post was about the choice between leather or textile protection but I get your point:)
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Ride around the oil slick :rolleyes:
Dusty
Ok Dusty, let's just pretend the oil slick is right in the middle of the blind curve and invisible. Lol, you guys are a hoot. Campfires at a guzzi rally would be a blast:)
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Horsehide over textile for me.
A quick look at the most expensive race suits at revzilla (because I was curious) shows that both are leather (kangaroo and cow) and one (the dainese) is lousy with airbags and requires a service contract :shocked:
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Lol nick, the jest of the post was about the choice between leather or textile protection but I get your point:)
Yea - sorry bout that. I'd go for leather, just because it feels so sexy :wink:
Nick
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Yea - sorry bout that. I'd go for leather, just because it feels so sexy :wink:
Nick
Lol, all in fun, I agree with you Nick and I love the smell of leather, mix it with spent gun powder and it gets close to orgasmic😂
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Leather... from a marsupial if I could afford it. For now I'll settle for my Held gear.
Here's a screen shot of a guy who regularly puts the suit to test.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/ns2h1F/Screen_Shot_2017_04_01_at_10_42_12_AM.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ns2h1F)
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When I get premonitions like this I listen to them and don't ride (or whatever else it might be about). Mine have come true quite a few times.
As for leather vs textile. I wore textile most of the time, sometimes just jeans and in my youth just shorts and tennis shoes. I did have a leather jacket for a while. I wore it when I wanted to 'look nice' like a client meeting.
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Premonitions are not BS. They are your sub conscious running the numbers on a risk assessment when engaging in a hazardous activity. If you're about to put a move on a beautiful girl and her quarterback boyfriend is beside her, you may have a premonition the you are gonna be handed your own ass. That would be a risk assessment at work, and might save you some grief... Just sayin'.
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Premonitions are not BS. They are your sub conscious running the numbers on a risk assessment when engaging in a hazardous activity. If you're about to put a move on a beautiful girl and her quarterback boyfriend is beside her, you may have a premonition the you are gonna be handed your own ass. That would be a risk assessment at work, and might save you some grief... Just sayin'.
Lol, ok guys I'm sorry I jump started this subject with the little premonition story. It was simply a precursor to the subject of ones personal feelings between two types of ridding gear. Can't stop laughing,
You guys are more fun than Saturday nite live:). I knew this would make a fun weekend, bout as much as ridding my calvin, can't stop grinning. Keep up the great responses!
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But the premonition is an important part of riding. I call it my "spidey senses" at work, and it keeps me out of a lot of trouble. I mean -- it's nice to believe that your hi-tek gear is going to make you invulnerable to that oily patch, but the better solution is always to not go there.
Oh -- and I always assume there's an oil slick or a tree branch or a moose in the blind part of the curve. I cringe when I get passed in blind curves by squids who think the only hazard inherent in a curve is the radius.
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What some people call "premonitions," others would term having a "gut feeling.� The former has often been synonymous with foretelling the future while the latter uses past experience and knowledge to present possible outcomes to a given circumstance. Clearly not the same. I would argue that premonitions are bunk, since nobody, not your aunt June, not the lady with the tarot cards, not the stock brokers, and not the poker players, nobody can tell the future. But we all have had gut feelings about things and events and, whether true or not, confirmation bias leads most of us to conclude that our gut feelings are most often correct.
That aside, has anybody argued for textile jackets yet? Or have we put that part of this debate to bed?
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I argued for textile under 50º and in the rain.
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I argued for textile under 50� and in the rain.
Missed that rodekyll.
It's moot because I'm not choosing to ride if it's under 50 and raining...and plus, I had a bad feeling about riding anyway, so namaste here and have some hot chocolate thankyouverymuch. :grin:
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Lol, ok guys I'm sorry I jump started this subject with the little premonition story. It was simply a precursor to the subject of ones personal feelings between two types of ridding gear. Can't stop laughing,
You guys are more fun than Saturday nite live:). I knew this would make a fun weekend, bout as much as ridding my dcalvin, can't stop grinning. Keep up the great responses!
Nah , good topic NC, oh and BTW, riding has one "d". A good application of your word would be..... "I'm thinking up ways of ridding myself of smarty pants Aussies who trawl for spelling errors". :azn:
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Well, a premonition can be not bunk. I've had premonitions in dreams and they do come true in some fashion. I also have 'gut feelings' and I heed them too.
I'd still wear textile :)
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Nah , good topic NC, oh and BTW, riding has one "d". A good application of your word would be..... "I'm thinking up ways of ridding myself of smarty pants Aussies who trawl for spelling errors". :azn:
Huzo, maybe I was talking about RIDDING instead of RIDDING in that sentence, lol
Not only do I have spelling issues , I'm to lazy to spell check before hitting the POST button ,lol😂
You aussies are too much. By the way was TOO correct or should it have been spelled TO, teacher;)
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It's not very cool in more ways than one, but I wear a leather 'bomber' jacket under my textile riding jacket. I lost weight and I tuck in the bomber jacket into my (now too big) leather overpants or the pants won't fit right (I know, they don't fit right anyway but I haven't budgeted new leather overpants).
Also, if I had a premonition of crashing, I wouldn't ride that day because I wouldn't have the right attitude for a ride.
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I just ordered an Olympia Dakar2 jacket (hi-Viz) to replace my 5-year old Olympia. Olympia jackets are very well-made and full of intelligent features. One attractive new feature of the Dakar2 is a rain liner -with hood - that can be worn either inside the jacket shell or outside, over the jacket. If you have to ride in the rain, the latter is the way to go, IMO.
Olympia textile jackets are excellent, but the CE-rated armor supplied with the jackets is just OK, not outstanding. I take out all the removable armor and wear a Forcefield armored shirt underneath. The shirt holds Forcefield's highly-rated Nitrex armor -
including back protector and chest pad - firmly in place exactly where it should be. I like this jacket/armor combination.
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It really depends on the outside temp. I use my leather jacket for 60 degrees up to 80 degrees. The textile jacket is good from 40 degrees to 60 degrees. I hope and pray that I don't dump it.
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I just ordered an Olympia Dakar2 jacket (hi-Viz) to replace my 5-year old Olympia. Olympia jackets are very well-made and full of intelligent features. One attractive new feature of the Dakar2 is a rain liner -with hood - that can be worn either inside the jacket shell or outside, over the jacket. If you have to ride in the rain, the latter is the way to go, IMO.
Olympia textile jackets are excellent, but the CE-rated armor supplied with the jackets is just OK, not outstanding. I take out all the removable armor and wear a Forcefield armored shirt underneath. The shirt holds Forcefield's highly-rated Nitrex armor -
including back protector and chest pad - firmly in place exactly where it should be. I like this jacket/armor combination.
Dip, the Forcefield undershirt is interesting. How about a little more conversation on the comfort, cost, heat factor etc. thanks for the informative response!
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This is the Forcefield shirt I wear under my jacket (Madame gave it to me for Christmas a couple of years ago!) Once you get accustomed to wearing it (it does feel rather different at first) the shirt/armor becomes unnoticeable and does not impede movement or dexterity. The shirt body material is elastic, very porous to cooling air, and wicks well. The chest pad is built with many holes to pass cooling air. The whole ensemble presents far less of an impediment to cooling than I had expected, but does reduce the flow of cooling air by some percentage. I recommend a highly-vented jacket to go over this shirt - I will trade a small reduction in cooling air any day for the increased protection offered by this item. Forcefield is a specialist in moto armor and their products are among the best on the market. Not inexpensive, but worth it, IMO.
https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/forcefield-pro-shirt-x-v
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Huzo, I was talking about RIDDING instead of RIDDING in that sentence, lol
Not only do I have spelling issues , I'm to lazy to spell check before hitting the POST button ,lol😂
You aussies are too much. By the way was TOO correct or should it have been spelled TO, teacher;)
I think you know, or you wouldn't have asked. Anyway was basically joking, none of it matters.
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I like both leather and textile, and have both. But as Kathi and I are about to buy Helite vests, not sure it matters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KI7iFZtuf70
Pretty spendy, but so is ICU. Besides, I have noticed that I just don't bounce as well as I once did. :shocked:
Bill
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I argued for textile under 50� and in the rain.
So you are claiming the various bugs that live in our gut know the future and try to warn us by screwing with our guts? Fascinating hypothesis.
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"I argued for textile under 50� and in the rain."
So you are claiming the various bugs that live in our gut know the future and try to warn us by screwing with our guts? Fascinating hypothesis.
Noooooooo. . . . . .
In that quote I'm claiming I prefer my textile jacket under 50º and in the rain. Where do you get gut bugs out of that?
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I think you know, or you wouldn't have asked. Anyway was basically joking, none of it matters.
I enjoyed the exchange Mate ;) I'm still considering getting on a plane and taking you up on your offer to come down under and RIDING:) with you.
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I enjoyed the exchange Mate ;) I'm still considering getting on a plane and taking you up on your offer to come down under and RIDING:) with you.
Norge Pilot who is an ex member, is coming over from California next year to do just that. I've bought a tidy Yamaha Diversion for him to ride and the offer to use the bike is open to any forum member to do the same. Ayers Rock is a solid 2 days or a sensible 3 days from here. My address is Burke St Creswick Australia, you can Google earth it, to see where I am geographically in Oz. You would be welcome to drop in, the bike is yours to use if you wish, alone or accompanied.
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Just don't think you can pick up a bargain in roo riding gear while here. I believe that now all the roo skin go offshore for tanning (Italy I've heard) so it's expensive, even tho' worth the cost. There are at least a couple of places that do bespoke gear in roo leather (& one a member on here). A great "souvenir" though.
And returning to the original question, I vote for leather. It works. And with reasonable care, leather will last more than a lifetime.
Mal
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Don't all those guys that go super super fast on bikes for a living wear leather? That seems to answer it.
That said, I wear textile do to money and size constraints.
-AJ
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Don't all those guys that go super super fast on bikes for a living wear leather? That seems to answer it.
That said, I wear textile do to money and size constraints.
-AJ
But does that answer it? Those guys on those super super fast bikes likely ride much faster too.
What speed are you going to be going on that tight blind curve on the road?
Hell I'm slow enough they I wore textiles on the track last summer too.
So since I'm never going to be as fast as those guys I'll stick with textiles.
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from Aerostich:
Compared to leather of the same weight and thickness, Cordura nylon is a stronger material. But hides are thicker and heavier so they offer greater abrasion resistance. We repair about twenty or thirty Aerostich garments a month. About a third of these were in crashes that produced some abrasion damage. Several common themes have emerged. Though Aerostich suits are not as abrasion resistant as racing leathers, they offer significant and useful protection, especially at typical street speeds.
Aerostich wearers often think of their suit as sacrificial in the same way a car's airbag gets used up by its deployment. These garments are lighter, cooler and easier to use in bad weather (etc...), but less crash-durable than leathers. On average, street riders seem to crash only at infrequent intervals. How gear feels and works during the intervening years of use and the tens of thousands of miles of riding is very important. Most street crashes occur between 20 and 50 mph, not between 50 and 100. For each Roadcrafter suit that was in a 100 mph crash, we get dozens that need smaller repairs because the rider fell down at 35 mph . For these kinds of everyday spills, even the fanciest leathers do not offer protective advantages. We make gear to help you use a motorcycle more and be better protected. It has to be safe, easy to use, and comfortable for everyday riding.
Nylon and Friction?
Although we have not conducted tests comparing the friction coefficients of cordura suits and leathers on various pavement surfaces, we have collected a significant amount of relevant information. We repair many Aerostich suits every year, and most of these are damaged by sliding on all kinds of pavements. Many of the wearers (testers....?) had previous crash experiences with leathers. Post-crash wearers typically comment that their Aerostich was 'slipperier' than their old leathers. The consensus is that Cordura slides a little better and tends to roll and tumble the wearer somewhat less than leather. After studying hundreds of accidents, former Motorcyclist magazine editor and professional accident reconstructionist Gordon Jennings believed that more crash injuries (broken shoulders, etc..) were caused by tumbling than by the incrementally increased chances of hitting something due to sliding farther.
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Wait, so a textile gear company is arguing that textiles are superior? And they're basing that, they say, on testimony they've received from people that they say have experience lots of crashes? Huh? Have we lost our critical thinking skills?
This Reminds me of that "study" which suggested that obese people did better in automobile accidents because their vital organs were safely stowed behind layers of protective blubber. You remember right? It was co-authored by Drs. McDonald and KrispyKreme and underwritten by a grant from the Too Fat To Die Foundation and it was published in Hoveround Monthly. Now I know you know what I'm talking about! Closer examination concluded that initial impact survival was negated by significant obesity-related morbidity leading to higher overall mortality rates for those with BMIs greater than 40. Dr. KrispyKreme changed the slides!
Seriously though... Aerostitch, you're arguing that textiles are more slippery, that people tend to tumble less and slide more, correct?
Correct,
And Aerostitch, would you say that you presumably only repair the jackets of those who survived their accidents?
I would.
So, Aerostitch, none of those riders who slid on their textile jackets right into oncoming traffic and died of their injuries needed their jacket fixed, correct?
Um, well, we make jackets. Gotta go! [smoke bomb]
I'll keep my bone-breaking, tumble-inducing, concrete-sticking leathers, thanks.
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Eleven, you DO know that Aerostich sells full leathers too right?
Yes they are suggesting that their textile products should offer sufficient protection for road typical road use, but they are not claiming blanket superiority over leathers and I think that speaks well for the potential believability of their claims.
Well that and anecdotal evidence from many of their customers which has been passed along by the customers through non-marketing channels for decades.
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A) After lurking here for months and hardly posting at all, I knew that if I did start posting more frequently, someday, someday soon, I'd say this "lighten up, Kev. It's a joke." What I didn't know is that I'd have to explain that after creating the character of Dr. KrispyKreme. Crazy times.
B) do they really make leather suits as well? I ask because I just went to their site and searched leather and cowhide and all that's turning up is gloves.
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from Aerostich:
Compared to leather of the same weight and thickness, Cordura nylon is a stronger material. But hides are thicker and heavier so they offer greater abrasion resistance. We repair about twenty or thirty Aerostich garments a month. About a third of these were in crashes that produced some abrasion damage. Several common themes have emerged. Though Aerostich suits
are not as abrasion resistant as racing leathers, they offer significant and useful protection, especially at typical street speeds.
Aerostich wearers often think of their suit as sacrificial in the same way a car's airbag gets used up by its deployment. These garments are lighter, cooler and easier to use in bad weather (etc...), but less crash-durable than leathers. On average, street riders seem to crash only at infrequent intervals. How gear feels and works during the intervening years of use and the tens of thousands of miles of riding is very important. Most street crashes occur between 20 and 50 mph, not between 50 and 100. For each Roadcrafter suit that was in a 100 mph crash, we get dozens that need smaller repairs because the rider fell down at 35 mph . For these kinds of everyday spills, even the fanciest leathers do not offer protective advantages. We make gear to help you use a motorcycle more and be better protected. It has to be safe, easy to use, and comfortable for everyday riding.
Nylon and Friction?
Good information!
Although we have not conducted tests comparing the friction coefficients of cordura suits and leathers on various pavement surfaces, we have collected a significant amount of relevant information. We repair many Aerostich suits every year, and most of these are damaged by sliding on all kinds of pavements. Many of the wearers (testers....?) had previous crash experiences with leathers. Post-crash wearers typically comment that their Aerostich was 'slipperier' than their old leathers. The consensus is that Cordura slides a little better and tends to roll and tumble the wearer somewhat less than leather. After studying hundreds of accidents, former Motorcyclist magazine editor and professional accident reconstructionist Gordon Jennings believed that more crash injuries (broken shoulders, etc..) were caused by tumbling than by the incrementally increased chances of hitting something due to sliding farther.
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A) After lurking here for months and hardly posting at all, I knew that if I did start posting more frequently, someday, someday soon, I'd say this "lighten up, Kev. It's a joke." What I didn't know is that I'd have to explain that after creating the character of Dr. KrispyKreme. Crazy times.
B) do they really make leather suits as well? I ask because I just went to their site and searched leather and cowhide and all that's turning up is gloves.
Ha ha, sorry my bad, I skimmed it while trying to forget this arm pain awaiting ORIF surgery tomorrow.
But yes, they do, it's called Transit 2
Aerostich Leather Jacket:
http://www.aerostich.com/jackets-pants/transit/transit-jacket.html
Pants:
http://www.aerostich.com/jackets-pants/transit/transit-pants.html
Though it looks like they may be discontinuing it after many years.