Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Travman on April 06, 2017, 03:07:06 PM
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I just rode this 1970 Norton Commando. I was really smitten. It was very quick. Zero to 60 feels especially quick and not just for an old bike, but for any bike. It was quite an adventure. Also, it was surprisingly light weight. It felt like it weighed under 400 lbs. It is probably around 100lbs less than my Ambassador. The brakes were fine considering that I rode in on a 1970 Drum-brake Ambassador. The people at the shop acted like it was not capable of stopping (I'm pretty sure none of them has actually ridden it).
I can see why this was considered a "Super bike" at the time. It really is a very special experience.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Misc/IMG_4627_zpsbmpa4rje.jpg)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Misc/IMG_4626_zpsa5ua8tm5.jpg)
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A great bike.
I loved my 88. Hated my EL400. Would have killed for a Commando. Never got one.
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I love those things - great sound! I've ridden a couple of them and I'm not confident shifting on the right side.
Love to own one but just afraid of their reliability. When riding with my friends with Nortons I remember parts falling off.
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Owned a well used one for a short time. Was going to cost more than my budget allowed at the time to go through everything to get it back to right. I sold it for about what I had into it and now it's just a fond memory. Mike
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That was my first bike..in blue..$1,050 out the door !!!
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This bike is a combination of a 1970 motor and 1971 frame. It started life as a High-Rider model. That is where the small tank and headlight come from. It was put together by a local guy in 1984 for his wife (hence the pink paint job). This same guy owns a very nice Laverda 3C and a few 1970's Ducati's including a bright yellow 750 Sport that I'd love to ride.
I'm not sure how to value this one since it is kind of a bastard. It runs well. Started right up after adding gas even though it had sat for years. It ran great on my extended test ride. Shifting feels typical of older British bikes. I really don't need another motorcycle right now, but I may get it.
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I’ve got one that I ride on long trips, two up, and once you sort out the things that the manufacturer didn’t take care of, like peeling chrome cylinder bores, “startus interruptus”, flaking flat tappets, rear bevel drives that leak, exploding clutch plates, bad hydro-lifters, peeling engine paint ….. no wait, I’m confused, THAT’S some other brand.
Once you sort out the transmission layshaft bearing, they’ll run just like any other 70s bike will run in 2017.
Here’s my one ….
(https://photos.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-XQSh8s9/0/X3/100_1218-X3.jpg) (https://lannisselz.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-XQSh8s9/A)
It’ll even hang out with old Guzzis when asked …
(https://photos.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-HmTtwnv/0/X3/DSCN0618-X3.jpg) (https://lannisselz.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-HmTtwnv/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-5TmmM6k/0/X3/DSCN0600-X3.jpg) (https://lannisselz.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-5TmmM6k/A)
Tons of urban legends associated with them, which have the same value and truth as most legends, urban and otherwise ….
Lannis
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Always loved Norton's! Maybe someday, reasonably priced ones are very hard to find.
Good luck and enjoy :grin:
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Always loved Norton's! Maybe someday, reasonably priced ones are very hard to find.
Good luck and enjoy :grin:
And getting harder to find. Sort of like Original and Nuovo Falcones, Honda GB500s, or Suzuki GT750s, the price is getting away from me faster than I can save up money.
I just took a deep breath one day in 2014 and pulled the trigger on this one. It's the only way you can do it ...
Lannis
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I�ve got one that I ride on long trips, two up, and once you sort out the things that the manufacturer didn�t take care of, like peeling chrome cylinder bores, �startus interruptus�, flaking flat tappets, rear bevel drives that leak, exploding clutch plates, bad hydro-lifters, peeling engine paint �.. no wait, I�m confused, THAT�S some other brand.
Once you sort out the transmission layshaft bearing, they�ll run just like any other 70s bike will run in 2017.
Here�s my one �.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-XQSh8s9/0/X3/100_1218-X3.jpg) (https://lannisselz.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-XQSh8s9/A)
It�ll even hang out with old Guzzis when asked �
(https://photos.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-HmTtwnv/0/X3/DSCN0618-X3.jpg) (https://lannisselz.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-HmTtwnv/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-5TmmM6k/0/X3/DSCN0600-X3.jpg) (https://lannisselz.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-5TmmM6k/A)
Tons of urban legends associated with them, which have the same value and truth as most legends, urban and otherwise �.
Lannis
You scared me for a moment. It wasn't until I read the third item until I figured out you weren't talking about Nortons.
Your Norton Interstate looks great. Maybe I'll get two. One for around town and an Interstate for longing trips.
I really don't know British bikes very well. The two 60's Triumph Bonneville I've ridden we're completely different. The seating position was more upright on the Triumphs. This Norton felt like a race bike in comparison. The Norton definitely left me with a more exciting impression.
I've ridden early Honda CB750's. These were very vague. I guess these were fast, but I felt they were a little gutless and flat until you waited a second for the revs to rise. I can't believe anyone bought those when Nortons were available.
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Lannis - what is the shift pattern on your Norton? This one is right-hand shift with 1-up-3 down shift pattern.
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They are great but Guzzi's take abuse better! Here's a snap outside McCarthy's bar (check out the book) in the South of Ireland, the yellow one is my wife's, the next mine, the rest my buddies.. That was a 1600 mile long weekend for us, half of it in pouring rain
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-up6ZNtobbgE/WNloaEdzXpI/AAAAAAAAJaQ/iEwPW3ZsZice7AFb7hYjP5z62Tu01B9BACLcB/s1600/B6.jpg)
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Lannis - what is the shift pattern on your Norton? This one is right-hand shift with 1-up-3 down shift pattern.
Mine's a 1975 MkIII. A little bit softer tune than the earlier 750s and MkII 850s, with an electric starter, two disk brakes, a better anti-wet-sumping valve, and the legally-required-by-that-time left-side shifter, one down, three up.
The brakes make it the only old Brit (except a Triumph Trident) that I'm comfortable riding with Fay up in the mountains. Feeling that brake lever on a SLS or TLS drum brake coming farther back toward the handlebar at each turn on a 4 mile downhill is NOT something that I want to compensate for .... !
For hard performance, though, you can't beat a "Combat" high-compression spec 750 Commando!
Lannis
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And my buddy and I plus my wife's Kawa at Draculas castle, Transylvania (Romania ) 2008
Proper adventure bikes ha ha, the adventure is wondering what needs fixed next!
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FJI3WSOo5ok/Vm3S3p_un4I/AAAAAAAAIng/l-cVIAmVUSw/s1600/Draculas%2Bcastle%2BBran%2Bst.JPG)
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And my buddy and I plus my wife's Kawa at Draculas castle, Transylvania (Romania ) 2008
Proper adventure bikes ha ha, the adventure is wondering what needs fixed next!
(https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-FJI3WSOo5ok/Vm3S3p_un4I/AAAAAAAAIng/l-cVIAmVUSw/s1600/Draculas%2Bcastle%2BBran%2Bst.JPG)
Your pictures of touring Nortons all over Europe and the UK is not helping make your case that the Norton's won't take abuse or that there are adventures in fixing them .... !! :laugh:
We need pics of connecting rods that have reached escape velocity, or bikes in pieces on a Bulgarian roadside in the rain for that .... :bow:
Lannis
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I bought my '71 new. Today very little original is left. New motor, trans, frame, wheels, brakes.... Tank, seat and sidecovers are original plus few little bits. Mine ran best with the standard (not combat) cam and 10:1 Powermax pistons. It would easily wheelie off the line and stay with 900 Kawi K1s up to about 70. Then they would motor away.
When they are running there is nothing like them. The very essence of a motorcycle. Mine has been stored a few years but I hope to get it back on the road this year.
Pete
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As I remember, the Commando won the bike of the year award for several years running when it was introduced. I had a 1970 Fastback (fiberglass tank and seat) for many years and it never gave me any trouble. I also had many 650 Triumphs but none of them were anywhere near as fast or smooth as the 750 Norton. I also had a 750 Norton Atlas and this was truly a boneshaker!
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My 68, which is currently apart for a frame,etc. repaint. Hope to start putting it back together in a few more weeks.
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/blackkat-1/IMG_0089_zps9gah5cus.jpg)
(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/blackkat-1/P1010009.jpg)
Problems with the older Commando's are fairly easy to sort out, but the latter ones are easier to live with, as the one owned by Lannis. Beware, an improperly tuned Norton will cause some physical pain,with a quick launch while kicking it over. Or so I'm told.
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So, Travis, are you buying it?
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Nice. Love me some Nortons and Triumphs. I had many Triumphs and just the one Norton, a '72 Combat Commando.
Man those 750's could turn up. I never have ridden the 850's.
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(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/675/33843934026_e487f852cf_c.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/4/3792/33843929496_10e682e774_c.jpg)
Don't get excited, it's just a participation award.
Nortons are right around 400lbs (especially the early ones) and feel like bicycles compared to a Guzzi (even the small Tontis). And the torque is what makes them fun. Something Triumph finally understood with their latest Bonnevilles.
Mine lost oil pressure (long story) and threw a rod. So it goes on the project pile... Man I miss it. :sad:
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I bought a running '73 750 Roadster with pinky purple small steel tank for $300 in the winter of 1978 and did cosmetic work such as paint and new peashooter mufflers. Rode it for five years with little maintenance except second gear broke. It was an easy $68 fix with quick access to the transmission. The strong prices today reflect the worth of the bike in terms of performance and a large range of spares available in OEM spec.
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Back in '68 I was knocking around with a guy with a Dunstalised Atlas. It was actually geared down for whatever reason and would only do about 105mph. How it got there was freakish! :shocked: :evil:
When I left uni it was developing a slight vibration. Seems like it was a big end nut coming undone. Fritz was giving it a bit of wick and it let go. Basically cut the engine in half. Ended up parting it out. It really was a beautiful looking (and sounding) machine with the Dunstal pipes and megas.
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Your pictures of touring Nortons all over Europe and the UK is not helping make your case that the Norton's won't take abuse or that there are adventures in fixing them .... !! :laugh:
We need pics of connecting rods that have reached escape velocity, or bikes in pieces on a Bulgarian roadside in the rain for that .... :bow:
Lannis
Lannis
Germany after my primary chain snapped (I know, weird, a first for me also) Pushed it a mile off the Autobahn and found a gas station to mess up, parts arrived within 36 hours from the UK and we were on our way again, I have many photos similar all over europe :angry:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HyJ-4-PdjAI/U_GxQL4JRXI/AAAAAAAAG4g/CCUzCHY2NI4/s1600/image-779618.jpeg)
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my very first bike was a 1972 combat commando, great bike when it ran.
it was also my daily transport.
The commando was a big mistake for a 18 year old.
Ridden like any 18 year old would ride, the thing would break down at a rate i just couldnt keep up repairing.
i bought a second engine and trans, so could rebuild a engine, and swap complete engines when the engine blew up.
in three years of daily transport i had big ends , main bearings, pistons , camshafts, cam followers , clutches ,primary chains , rear sprockets, exhaust valves, fork stanchions and a couple of gearbox shafts fail, and i probably forget something.
apparently nowadays you can build them reliable.
but i gave up, and bought my first guzzi, wich just ignored any abuse i could throw at it.
i still have the commando, and a couple of go faster goodies to build a "reliable" engine ( short stroke ) but so far ,
my guzzi's have kept me out of trouble.
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So, Travis, are you buying it?
Probably. I'm having a friend look at it this weekend. I also have a line on another Norton that belongs to a friend's brother.
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Probably. I'm having a friend look at it this weekend. I also have a line on another Norton that belongs to a friend's brother.
"I'm not sure how to value this one since it is kind of a bastard."
Low, given it's cobbled together history.
And if that tank hasn't been lined, plan on a new metal tank.
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Mine's a 1975 MkIII. A little bit softer tune than the earlier 750s and MkII 850s, with an electric starter, two disk brakes, a better anti-wet-sumping valve, and the legally-required-by-that-time left-side shifter, one down, three up.
The brakes make it the only old Brit (except a Triumph Trident) that I'm comfortable riding with Fay up in the mountains. Feeling that brake lever on a SLS or TLS drum brake coming farther back toward the handlebar at each turn on a 4 mile downhill is NOT something that I want to compensate for .... !
For hard performance, though, you can't beat a "Combat" high-compression spec 750 Commando!
Lannis
I knew the last ones had shifting on the left. I but I didn't know that they switched the shifting pattern. My Ambassador has shifting on the left, but with a one up three down shifting pattern. This is going to get real confusing really fast. Normally I have no problems going to the Ambo because it likes to be shifted slowly so my brain has plenty of time to think. It is harder going back to a modern bike and remembering how to shift.
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"I'm not sure how to value this one since it is kind of a bastard."
Low, given it's cobbled together history.
And if that tank hasn't been lined, plan on a new metal tank.
It is a fiberglass tank and it appears to be lined. There is some gas around the petcocks. I need to figure out if that is from the tank or from the petcocks. Are there any sources for new tanks?
It probably is going to be repainted anyway you look at it. It will be fun to run around on a pink bike for a while, but I don't see that as my long term color
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It is a fiberglass tank and it appears to be lined. There is some gas around the petcocks. I need to figure out if that is from the tank or from the petcocks. Are there any sources for new tanks?
It probably is going to be repainted anyway you look at it. It will be fun to run around on a pink bike for a while, but I don't see that as my long term color
There are sources for every part. While finding a new steel HiRider tank may be challenging the Roadster tanks are readily available.
http://www.accessnorton.com is a fantastic forum full of very knowledgeable folks.
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"I'm not sure how to value this one since it is kind of a bastard."
Low, given it's cobbled together history.
And if that tank hasn't been lined, plan on a new metal tank.
I am not sure that fact that its been cobbled together makes much of difference. I would be surprised if there were more than 3 stock Nortons in the world. If bought and ridden as intended things would break and their faults would be evident. Books have been written on how to improve them. The bike pictured looks like its in good shape. I would swap out the tank if you plan to at least leave the county. Friends with Roadster tanks are looking for gas stations at around 100 miles. No idea what the SS/Hi Rider tank is good for but assume its less than a roadster tank. The S pipes are plus as they are less common.
Check the crankcase casting behind the cylinder for cracks. The studs are undersize and if not kept tight will move fore and aft in turns trying to keep the rear wheel in line, especially on the 750s. Norton increased the wall thickness on the 850s to help prevent cracking. The fix for the 750s is to ream the next size and use precision ground stock for studs.
Pete
Pete
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I knew the last ones had shifting on the left. I but I didn't know that they switched the shifting pattern. My Ambassador has shifting on the left, but with a one up three down shifting pattern. This is going to get real confusing really fast. Normally I have no problems going to the Ambo because it likes to be shifted slowly so my brain has plenty of time to think. It is harder going back to a modern bike and remembering how to shift.
My Eldorado is left shift four down one up, my Ducati Monza 250 is right shift four down one up, and, of course all the rest are left shift 1 down 4 or 5 up. I haven't ridden the Eldo yet, so, my brain is currently programed to do the four down, one up thing when shifting with the right foot, and "normal" shifting with the left foot. It'll be interesting when I get the Eldo on the road.
I'd love to try a Norton out sometime. Of all the vintage Brit bikes, the Nortons interest me me the most.
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The Norton electric start was known to be problematic, a design that was based on the only electric motor available at the time. Recently Matt Rambo (
Colorado Norton Works) has come out with a new e-start system that uses a Sportster starter, works great. When you get tired of kicking this is the way to go.
Peter Y.
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The Norton electric start was known to be problematic, a design that was based on the only electric motor available at the time. Recently Matt Rambo (
Colorado Norton Works) has come out with a new e-start system that uses a Sportster starter, works great. When you get tired of kicking this is the way to go.
Peter Y.
Mine still has the stock electric start on it and it works well. Just like any other old e-start bike, though, the way to make it work is to run a dedicated, properly sized ground cable straight from the battery to the starter ....
I probably won't change anything unless it gets to be problematic. The starter (original), charging system (original), carbs (original Amals) etc are all understandable and work well until they don't ... !
Lannis
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There are sources for every part. While finding a new steel HiRider tank may be challenging the Roadster tanks are readily available.
http://www.accessnorton.com is a fantastic forum full of very knowledgeable folks.
+1 on Accessnorton. Ditto for parts availability. My best example: ordered parts online from RGM Motors in UK( recommended) on a Sunday night . Received my items on the following Thursday AM at my workplace in SF!
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Travis: Got Whitworth? If not, you'll be needing a set.
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Not to worry! You can put those leaky Amals to good use!
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic005/norton%20bear%20keg_zpsm99es5io.jpg)
:boozing:
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Here's ol' JJ back in the day (mid-1990's) in Dallas, TX on his award winning 1975 Norton 850 Commando Interstate MK III.
I bought this one (complete) in pieces and boxes for $300 at a garage sale in upstate NY. Cool bike, :cool: but DOES require a lot of "fettling" as they say.
Would love to own another one (restored and sorted) someday... :thumb: :smiley: Sold it for $6,000 back in 2001...in this condition today, probably $10K +
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nRd6gQ/Screen_Shot_2017_04_07_at_10_49_50_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/nRd6gQ)
photohosting (http://imgbb.com/)
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There are sources for every part. While finding a new steel HiRider tank may be challenging the Roadster tanks are readily available.
http://www.accessnorton.com is a fantastic forum full of very knowledgeable folks.
Yeah, I'd go for a roadster tank. I have a HiRider tank kicking around here somewhere, you can have it for the shipping cost but it really isn't worth the time or money IMO. I should just fill it with dirt and plant some basil in the opening.
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Here's the thing, been riding Nortons and Guzzis since way back, love them both ( got 7 Nortons and 4 Guzzis still ) I ride Nortons cause I'm a masochist , Guzzis I can ride hard and suffer less, both brilliant 👌
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Would love to own another one (restored and sorted) someday... :thumb: :smiley: Sold it for $6,000 back in 2001...in this condition today, probably $10K +
No "probably" about it. I can vouch for that, personally and painfully ..... They're beautiful bikes, though.
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Travis: Got Whitworth? If not, you'll be needing a set.
Are you sure? Have you owned a Norton Commando?
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I had a '74 850 Commando Interstate. Still kick-only, but easy to start once you figure out how. I toured on mine for a number of years and it never let me down. Stainless exhaust and mudguards, a 25 liter tank, and the funkiest rear axle/drum brake arrangement I've ever seen. Mine was a gem and much appreciated till I sold it to a good friend (who wrecked it within a week). Only about 55 hp on most, but it pulled like a twenty mule team. The sound was pretty great, too.
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Are you sure? Have you owned a Norton Commando?
Charlie hasn't, to my knowledge, but he's worked on at least one. I have owned one since 1979 & I can assure you that there are at least a few bolts that absolutely require a Whitworth wrench - neither SAE or metric wrenches will fit them. Well, I guess you could use a chisel to get them off....... except that a couple of them are countersunk so you couldn't even use a chisel.
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Re: Your Norton Interstate looks great. Maybe I'll get two. One for around town and an Interstate for longing trips.
You don't need 2 - just buy a 74 or 75 Roadster, then buy an Interstate tank, side covers & seat. Aside from those parts, the models are identical. Earlier Interstates had different header pipes & mufflers than the Roadsters but were otherwise also identical. An expensive solution, but much cheaper than buying 2 bikes! On the other hand, the Interstate is perfectly fine for "around town", too, unless you just are in love with the looks of the Roadster. Even for around town riding, having a 6 gal tank ( approx. 300 miles to empty unless you're a street racer) vs. a 3 - 3.5 gal tank is nice, & the handling differences are minimal.
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I knew the last ones had shifting on the left. I but I didn't know that they switched the shifting pattern. My Ambassador has shifting on the left, but with a one up three down shifting pattern. This is going to get real confusing really fast. Normally I have no problems going to the Ambo because it likes to be shifted slowly so my brain has plenty of time to think. It is harder going back to a modern bike and remembering how to shift.
Commandos changed to left hand shift in 1975. AMC gearbox was designed for right hand shift and I have been told that the '75 shifters feel kinda vague in comparison to the right hand shift due the much longer linkage that has to go through to the other side of the bike. No personal experience though. Can tell you that the AMC gearbox is a beautiful thing when set up properly. My '74 with right hand shift is the best motorcycle gearbox I have ever encountered. Snick, snick, snick! I up and 3 down on the passenger side. Same as my Moto Guzzi V700 but that gearbox is crude and agricultural by comparison!
Shifting from right to left shifting can be challenging when moving between vintage and modern bikes. Half my bikes are right hand shift and half are left hand shift and it hasn't been that much of an issue so far but I do think about how I am going to respond in an emergency situation.
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Commandos changed to left hand shift in 1975. AMC gearbox was designed for right hand shift and I have been told that the '75 shifters feel kinda vague in comparison to the right hand shift due the much longer linkage that has to go through to the other side of the bike. No personal experience though. Can tell you that the AMC gearbox is a beautiful thing when set up properly. /quote]
My 75 shifts fine; much better than my 2013 Harley & marginally better than my Mille most of the time. It does have additional linkage that can, I suppose, introduce some extra "slop" in the movement, but if the linkage is tight & set up right it's fine & I don't notice any slop in my bike. Another factor is a correctly adjusted clutch - difficulty in finding neutral is a common complaint against 75 Nortons (maybe others too but I've only owned the one 75), but I find that finding neutral, even at a dead stop, is easy if I have the clutch adjusted just right. As most of us know, shifting an old bike's transmission can be as much art as skill, & many bikes take a little time to discover the best technique for shifting that particular bike.
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Charlie hasn't, to my knowledge, but he's worked on at least one. I have owned one since 1979 & I can assure you that there are at least a few bolts that absolutely require a Whitworth wrench - neither SAE or metric wrenches will fit them. Well, I guess you could use a chisel to get them off....... except that a couple of them are countersunk so you couldn't even use a chisel.
Oh, I know there are a couple but they are one's you'd rarely touch. I just didn't want people to think you had to have a set of Whitworth at all times.
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Charlie hasn't, to my knowledge, but he's worked on at least one.
Charlie, in the interest of list peace and quiet, is showing admirable restraint here. :angel:
Were he to get going, you'd hear some damning of Nortons up street and down alley that would surprise you! :thewife:
Lannis
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I've had Nortons, I've had Triumphs, but best of all was
(http://thumb.ibb.co/ho1Jd5/Picture_576.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ho1Jd5)
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Interstates have more than just a big tank. They also have a longer and flatter seat, stainless mudguards, and little or no plastic or fiberglass on them. The chassis and engine was the same beneath the bodywork though, creating a bike with all the power and handling of the Roadster with a more practical slant (though the Interstate's dry weight of 410 lbs was 20 lbs greater than the Roadster). I lived in the Catskills for two of the years that I owned that bike; it was magnificent on those twisty, narrow mountain roads...especially with a fresh pair of Avons.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c229/JamesBagley/Norton.jpg)
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Beautiful bike, Lannis! :thumb: :cool: Makes me want another one!! :smiley:
I would say every motorcyclist who has been riding for a long time should one day experience the joy of a running well sorted Commando...on the pipe...at 65-70 mph... at on a smooth, twisty, country road on a bright sunny day! :thumb: :cool: :1:
The ride / sound / handling / feeling is nothing sort of magical!! :cool: (IMHO)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/k1oQQk/Screen_Shot_2017_04_08_at_6_41_58_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/k1oQQk)
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I've had Nortons, I've had Triumphs, but best of all was
(http://thumb.ibb.co/ho1Jd5/Picture_576.jpg) (http://ibb.co/ho1Jd5)
Ooooh la la!!! Love Velos!! Never owned or ridden one but have lusted after one for years!!
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Oh, I know there are a couple but they are one's you'd rarely touch. I just didn't want people to think you had to have a set of Whitworth at all times.
Nor did I say Travman *had* to have a set. I simply asked (jokingly) "Got Whitworth" that was all. :rolleyes:
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Oh, I know there are a couple but they are one's you'd rarely touch. I just didn't want people to think you had to have a set of Whitworth at all times.
Pretty much all of the engine and transmission nuts are Whitworth, British Cycle thread actually but Whitworth wrenches fit. The rest of the cycle parts are SAE.
Pete
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Ooooh la la!!! Love Velos!! Never owned or ridden one but have lusted after one for years!!
Oh yeah. I had the serious hots for one when I was a kid. Fortunately.. :smiley: I couldn't afford it. I wasn't a good enough mechanic to even *think* about maintaining a Velo then.
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Oh yeah. I had the serious hots for one when I was a kid. Fortunately.. :smiley: I couldn't afford it. I wasn't a good enough mechanic to even *think* about maintaining a Velo then.
And that's why she had to go. When she was running well she was stable, comfortable, a delight. But when she was bad, she was very, very bad. After four years I needed a bit of cash for a car, so she went to someone who could give her the love I couldn't. Every year I get an email from him extolling her virtues. I love my V7, but if I could find the Velo's spiritual successor, with modern starting and reliability, I'd buy it like a shot.
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Beware, an improperly tuned Norton will cause some physical pain,with a quick launch while kicking it over. Or so I'm told.
My 73 Ducati 750 GT came with it advanced somewhere about 5-10 degrees. Because the set up was done by used car mechanic in a small town Berliner shop he handed it over to me like that. Talk about a quick launch with all that pre-ignition. It took awhile to find out the specs and get it tuned right. Meanwhile I learned to slide my foot off the kick starter when I felt it pre-igniting.
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My 73 Ducati 750 GT came with it advanced somewhere about 5-10 degrees. Because the set up was done by used car mechanic in a small town Berliner shop he handed it over to me like that. Talk about a quick launch with all that pre-ignition. It took awhile to find out the specs and get it tuned right. Meanwhile I learned to slide my foot off the kick starter when I felt it pre-igniting.
I understand what you mean but pre ignition is actually igniting the fuel air mixture prematurely by hot spot and not the ignition spark...You had over advanced timing......10 degrees over advanced could cause a holed piston if the throttle was held open long enough in high gear..The old 750 Ducati's had no timing marks if I remember correctly...Timing was done by finding TDC and using a degree wheel, same as old British bikes... the standard full advance timing was 36-38 degrees, with 28 of that provided by the auto advance unit..Substituting softer advance springs gave sharper part throttle response , but could cause a bit of pinging.. I had owned a few 750 Ducati bevel drive twins over the years. The kick starter was a bit awkward but the engine always started on one kick..
I had a 74 850 Commando with a hotter cam...When tuned properly is wasn't difficult to kick start provided you put some ass into it. Kick back can be induced by feeble kicking....The Norton was smooth above 2500 or so rpm but I never warmed up to handling of the bike...It was 10 years old when I got it and the Isolastic engine mounts may have deteriorated needing new rubber parts or shim adjustments . It felt hinged in the middle when pushed hard into turns...
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...It was 10 years old when I got it and the Isolastic engine mounts may have deteriorated needing new rubber parts or shim adjustments . It felt hinged in the middle when pushed hard into turns...
Well, if you consider it ... it IS hinged in the middle! The frame and front end are one piece, and the engine and swingarm are attached to them via the rubber hinges. But unlike the H1 Kawasakis to which that description is usually applied, it's designed to be hinged in the middle, and the hinge is supposed to be constrained to move in a way that doesn't detract from the bike's handling.
As you say, if the Isolastics are in good shape and adjusted, the handling should be as good as any BSA or Triumph, which is VERY good ....
Lannis
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Well, if you consider it ... it IS hinged in the middle! The frame and front end are one piece, and the engine and swingarm are attached to them via the rubber hinges. But unlike the H1 Kawasakis to which that description is usually applied, it's designed to be hinged in the middle, and the hinge is supposed to be constrained to move in a way that doesn't detract from the bike's handling.
As you say, if the Isolastics are in good shape and adjusted, the handling should be as good as any BSA or Triumph, which is VERY good ....
Lannis
I remember the Norton Commando felt more planted than a Triumph at high speeds...But the Triumph felt more mechanical in a primal way...an intense mechanical internal combustion experience........G uzzi and Ducati are like the Triumph only more refined and subdued vibration...The Norton feel was kinda like the 97 Buell I recently sold....
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It is a fiberglass tank and it appears to be lined. There is some gas around the petcocks. I need to figure out if that is from the tank or from the petcocks. Are there any sources for new tanks?
It probably is going to be repainted anyway you look at it. It will be fun to run around on a pink bike for a while, but I don't see that as my long term color
I assume you already know the dangers of ethanol and fiberglass.
I'll guess that's why it's lined but does that eliminate all the dangers?
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A friend who was a Norton guru would tell potential owners , "make sure to purchase the official Norton repair kit" . and when asked what that was his, reply , " a trailer with a tool box full of cash attached" .
Dusty
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A friend who was a Norton guru would tell potential owners , "make sure to purchase the official Norton repair kit" . and when asked what that was his, reply , " a trailer with a tool box full of cash attached" .
Dusty
Yep. He's keeping the legend going; I know how it is. Think about it; what a Bull Goose Motorcycle Hero the "Norton Guru" must be if he can ride a Norton and still keep that POS going WITHOUT a tool box full of cash! I might start doing the same thing, come to think of it.
Like folks that talk about how hard to start old Brits are. With the exception of the Velocettes and the BSA B50, both of which have really bad kickstart gearing which doesn't even give you a full four-stroke cycle on each kick, Brits are as easy to start as any bike that has good compression, a working carburetor, and a properly timed spark. One or two kicks every time. If it doesn't, it's not just because "They All Do That, Sir", it's because something's broken and needs fixing, and most people don't want to hear that ... they just kick and kick and cuss and tell stories .... !
Lannis
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Yep. He's keeping the legend going; I know how it is. Think about it; what a Bull Goose Motorcycle Hero the "Norton Guru" must be if he can ride a Norton and still keep that POS going WITHOUT a tool box full of cash! I might start doing the same thing, come to think of it.
Like folks that talk about how hard to start old Brits are. With the exception of the Velocettes and the BSA B50, both of which have really bad kickstart gearing which doesn't even give you a full four-stroke cycle on each kick, Brits are as easy to start as any bike that has good compression, a working carburetor, and a properly timed spark. One or two kicks every time. If it doesn't, it's not just because "They All Do That, Sir", it's because something's broken and needs fixing, and most people don't want to hear that ... they just kick and kick and cuss and tell stories .... !
Lannis
Actually Lannis , this was in the early 1980's , and my friend built several Nortons for other folks that were better than new and ran reliably for years . BUT , this was after new Superblend main bearings , lower compression pistons , Sportster valve guides machined to fit , and often times a conversion to a single Mikuni .
Dusty
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Actually Lannis , this was in the early 1980's , and my friend built several Nortons for other folks that were better than new and ran reliably for years . BUT , this was after new Superblend main bearings , lower compression pistons , Sportster valve guides machined to fit , and often times a conversion to a single Mikuni .
Dusty
If the bike was already trashed, and he was rebuilding it with the latest "stuff", then there's nothing wrong with a guy who builds Nortons for other folks for a living telling them to bring a container full of cash.
But the later model bikes already have the right bearings, the standard valve guides work fine, the Amals work fine (although I'm in the middle of cleaning my fuel tank after the previous "liner" job came apart), and only a "Combat" engine would benefit from lower compression ....
You just hear so much stuff. I'll ride my BSA to a gathering 120 miles away on the highways. It has the stock chain oiler tube from the top of the inner primary to the chain. At the end of a long hot ride, I'll park it up, and the last drops from the tube will form a half-dollar sized oil spot on the pavement.
"HAW!" says some guy who rode there in his car. "YAWL COME OVER HERE AN' LOOK AT THIS! SEE, I TOL' YA ALL THESE OLD TRIUMPHS LEAK OIL ALL THE TIME! CAIN'T RIDE 'EM NOWHERE ...."
And on it goes ...
Lannis
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Oh I know , remember , I rode those old Limeys for years , all over the country . Once , only about 200 miles from home a couple of HD riders seemed amazed that we had ridden our TR6R that far , they just knew we had come in on a trailer . The wife set them straight on that , and then asked the two , "So just how far did you ride in from?" Seems they had made an epic journey of 15 miles :laugh:
Dusty
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Like folks that talk about how hard to start old Brits are. With the exception of the Velocettes
Lannis
My Velocette started first or second kick every time, even if it had been left for a couple of months, unless there were other Velocette enthusiasts around. It was a peculiarity of the marque. They'd get embarrassed if they thought anyone was watching.
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I've ridden early Honda CB750's. These were very vague. I guess these were fast, but I felt they were a little gutless and flat until you waited a second for the revs to rise. I can't believe anyone bought those when Nortons were available.
Very few people did, at least over here. The Hondas were much more expensive too.
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When I headed out from Charleston WV to Port Isabel (Padre Island) in August of 1966, I'd never been on a motorcycle road trip. Any thinking person would have changed either the countershaft sprocket or final drive to gear the bike higher, since it was scrambler-geared. But when you don't know what you don't know, you go with what you've got.
I had:
One BSA 650 Spitfire Scrambler
One denim jacket
One USAR back pack
.... and the desire to get to southern Texas to see my bride-to-be.
Quite an adventure. No helmet, no goggles (until Chattanooga, TN) And what the hell is a rainsuit?
I ran the old Beezer so hard across the King Ranch that it apparently burnt up the spark plugs.
But luckily, the BSA made it down and back, for a round trip of approx. 3000 miles.
Who says these old Brit machines weren't tough!
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...........I'd never been on a motorcycle road trip.
I had:
One BSA 650 Spitfire Scrambler
One denim jacket
One USAR back pack
.... And what the hell is a rainsuit?
LOVE that last line !! :bow:
I think we're related :boozing:
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When I headed out from Charleston WV to Port Isabel (Padre Island) in August of 1966, I'd never been on a motorcycle road trip. Any thinking person would have changed either the countershaft sprocket or final drive to gear the bike higher, since it was scrambler-geared. But when you don't know what you don't know, you go with what you've got.
I had:
One BSA 650 Spitfire Scrambler
One denim jacket
One USAR back pack
.... and the desire to get to southern Texas to see my bride-to-be.
Quite an adventure. No helmet, no goggles (until Chattanooga, TN) And what the hell is a rainsuit?
I ran the old Beezer so hard across the King Ranch that it apparently burnt up the spark plugs.
But luckily, the BSA made it down and back, for a round trip of approx. 3000 miles.
Who says these old Brit machines weren't tough!
Stock gearing on the Scramblers was 18 - 47 (teeth on the engine and wheel sprockets respectively). At 70 MPH on the road it would have been turning about 5500 RPM, which would feel pretty rambunctious ... I have 21-47 on mine, and it calms it down QUITE a bit .... !
We didn't over-analyzed stuff back then, we just went with whatever we were riding. There were no internet sites to tell you how impossible it would be to tour on an X ... !
Lannis
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Yeh, but there are NOW, Lannis.
Quit trying to rewrite history.
You know that S'Nortin' Norton never got you out past the edge of town Colorado. :thewife:
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When I got orders for west pac I was stationed at the Cecil field NAS JAX Fla., and I had to report to San Diego in 29 days. So I decided that since I was going to VN I would take my time and ride across and stop an visit family.
I went to the local moto dealer with what cash I had and bought a bike. I had a choice of a Norton Atlas (a '64 I think) or a Matchless 600 Typhoon single. I couldn't make a deal for the Norton so bought the Matchless and loaded it with my parachute bag full of stuff and a pair of sun glasses and hit the road.
Long story short, I made it! The Typhoon had a top of about 85 but would cruise at 65 with expectable vibration. Never failed me and taught me about the importance of a spark retard!
I know this thread is about Norton but I always wondered about that Norton. Wish I could have pulled that one off.
Wanted one ever since but bought the CX instead.
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When I got orders for west pac I was stationed at the Cecil field NAS JAX Fla., and I had to report to San Diego in 29 days. So I decided that since I was going to VN I would take my time and ride across and stop an visit family.
I went to the local moto dealer with what cash I had and bought a bike. I had a choice of a Norton Atlas (a '64 I think) or a Matchless 600 Typhoon single. I couldn't make a deal for the Norton so bought the Matchless and loaded it with my parachute bag full of stuff and a pair of sun glasses and hit the road.
Long story short, I made it! The Typhoon had a top of about 85 but would cruise at 65 with expectable vibration. Never failed me and taught me about the importance of a spark retard!
I know this thread is about Norton but I always wondered about that Norton. Wish I could have pulled that one off.
Wanted one ever since but bought the CX instead.
Good story. I've got one about my first BSA, and a long ride on it, but I'll save it for another time.
And as far as thread drift goes, by the year or so after you were trying to decide between them, Matchlesses became "badge engineered" Nortons, more or less. So it's all in the family.
I've ridden the 600 cc singles and the 750 Norton Atlas, and I'd pick the single every time, even for a long trip. The Atlas was a real vibrator, and if you reach down and touch the head of your Norton Commando at speed and feel how that motor is buzzing, and then imagine the whole bike buzzing like that .... ouch!
Lannis
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When I headed out from Charleston WV to Port Isabel (Padre Island) in August of 1966, I'd never been on a motorcycle road trip. Any thinking person would have changed either the countershaft sprocket or final drive to gear the bike higher, since it was scrambler-geared. But when you don't know what you don't know, you go with what you've got.
I had:
One BSA 650 Spitfire Scrambler
One denim jacket
One USAR back pack
.... and the desire to get to southern Texas to see my bride-to-be.
Quite an adventure. No helmet, no goggles (until Chattanooga, TN) And what the hell is a rainsuit?
I ran the old Beezer so hard across the King Ranch that it apparently burnt up the spark plugs.
But luckily, the BSA made it down and back, for a round trip of approx. 3000 miles.
Who says these old Brit machines weren't tough!
Yeah , but Bob is leaving out the , er , interesting parts of this story :grin:
Dusty
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Like folks that talk about how hard to start old Brits are. With the exception of the Velocettes and the BSA B50, both of which have really bad kickstart gearing which doesn't even give you a full four-stroke cycle on each kick, Brits are as easy to start as any bike that has good compression, a working carburetor, and a properly timed spark. One or two kicks every time. If it doesn't, it's not just because "They All Do That, Sir", it's because something's broken and needs fixing, and most people don't want to hear that ... they just kick and kick and cuss and tell stories .... !
Lannis
My '56 Triumph started on the first or second kick once I replaced the slip ring in the mag. Turn Ign. on, tickle the Amal Monobloc, push kick starter to a compression and then kick. Easy start. Always wished Guzzi had a kick start, would have helped me a many time when my first one and I were getting to know each other. My R75/5 kick is just about useless unless you move the LH foot peg out of the way of the kick stroke. If it's running right and have a warm engine, and it's just a bad battery. You can get it to start on the short stroke with the peg in the way.
EDIT:.. some spelling and...Wanted to add. On the R75/5, Do Not try to start a hard starting bike with the kicker on the side stand. It will bend the stand 90% of the time. Use the center stand instead then kick away.
Tom
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My '56 Triumph started on the first or second kick one I replaced the slip ring in the mag. Turn Ign. on, tickle the Amal Monobloc, push kick starter to a compression and then kick. Easy start. Always wished Guzzi had a kick start, would have helped me a many time when my first one and I were getting to know each other. My R75/5 kick is just about useless unless you move the LH foot peg out of the way of the kick stroke. If it's running right and have a warm engine, and it;s just a bad battery. You can get it to start on the short stroke with the peg in the way.
Tom
I cut about 1/4 inch of the front of the pad on the kicker on my /5 Tom , now it clears the footpeg .
Dusty
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I shall have to look at that. I have always had a hard time cutting up a stock part in case sometime I or some one want's factory stock. I do have a spare kicker. I will look at modding it.
EDIT...I was thinking about how to make the foot peg fold out of the way while keeping the stock look, just couldn't figure out how without a welder.
Thanks for the tip!!
Tom
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Oh I know , remember , I rode those old Limeys for years , all over the country . Once , only about 200 miles from home a couple of HD riders seemed amazed that we had ridden our TR6R that far , they just knew we had come in on a trailer . The wife set them straight on that , and then asked the two , "So just how far did you ride in from?" Seems they had made an epic journey of 15 miles :laugh:
Dusty
1972 in South Dakota. Pic taken by my brother on his '69 750 Honda 4. We started out from Rochester, NY. Before we were back home we had gone as far as San Francisco, up the coast to Vancouver, BC and back. About 8,500 miles total. The luggage rack was a sheet of plywood with a piece of rubber hose glued to the front edge resting on the tail section and some conduit bent and clamped to the rear frame loop.
That same day the clutch fell off in he Black Hills. This '71 didn't come with the locking washer on the nut like the later ones had. My brother rode the 30 miles back to Rapid City where a guy in a bike shop lent us the clutch tool. Later on the way back I started losing power in the Canadian Rockies. Limped along for a few hundred more miles until it wouldn't run any more. My brother towed me the last 200 miles on the Trans Canada to Winnipeg to have the exhaust valves replaced. Who knew they should have been checked regularly? My previous two bikes were 2 stroke Yamahas.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/j5XarQ/Nort_SD2.jpg) (http://ibb.co/j5XarQ)
This is how it looked a few years ago with its chrome plated frame. Frame chromed after the nickel oxidized. It now has a MKIII powder coated frame after the chrome frame rusted through. I assume all the plating solution had not been cleaned out.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mz3gWQ/nortrite.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mz3gWQ)
Beside the cross country trip its been ridden to Norton Rallies in Georgia, Virginia, Wisconsin, Ohio, Illinois, and probably a few more I forgotten about. Also done track days at Mid Ohio and Watkins Glen but only a few sessions as I soon found out the 9" Dunstall Brakes would fade after only a couple of laps. Rest of the day would be spent on my LeMans (ob Guzzi content).
Pete
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Surly one the most beautiful engines in all of cycledom. :thumb:
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That would be Shirley.. :cool:
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Of course, if $$$ MONEY $$$ were no object...this would be pretty cool....and/or one from the Colorado Norton Works (CNW)!! :thumb: :cool: :1: :boozing:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/efWod5/Screen_Shot_2017_04_09_at_8_41_33_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/efWod5)
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I understand what you mean ....10 degrees over advanced could cause a holed piston if the throttle was held open long enough in high gear..The old 750 Ducati's had no timing marks if I remember correctly...Timing was done by finding TDC and using a degree wheel, same as old British bikes... the standard full advance timing was 36-38 degrees, with 28 of that provided by the auto advance unit..Substituting softer advance springs gave sharper part throttle response , but could cause a bit of pinging.. I had owned a few 750 Ducati bevel drive twins over the years. The kick starter was a bit awkward but the engine always started on one kick..
I had a 74 850 Commando with a hotter cam...When tuned properly is wasn't difficult to kick start provided you put some ass into it. Kick back can be induced by feeble kicking....The Norton was smooth above 2500 or so rpm but I never warmed up to handling of the bike...It was 10 years old when I got it and the Isolastic engine mounts may have deteriorated needing new rubber parts or shim adjustments . It felt hinged in the middle when pushed hard into turns...
You are correct that the old Ducks had a degree wheel. Seems to me that functionally there is no difference between "pre ignition is actually igniting the fuel air mixture prematurely by hot spot and not the ignition spark...You had over advanced timing.." The result is the same if you are on a kick starter and the fuel mixture ignites before it is supposed to. You end up with a very sore ankle or ejection as the kick starter kicks you back as the mixture ignites. It's all semantics to me whatever you call it; the freaking kicker starter responds like it is rejecting you on the follow through. Before I got it sorted out (back in 73 in the middle of rural central Illinois there was not much in terms of help). It took me awhile to get the timing wheel and other parts to adjust the valves (winkler caps I believe they called them). Meanwhile I just played with the ignition until I found a sweet spot where it started on one or two kicks and ran well. I eventually ended up with a few speciality tools for it as well as the original manual that was written in both Italian and very bad English. It had good photos though.
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Nice weekend so I took the Norton and my wife took the GUzzi :grin:
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-obXQubI59co/WOvMvSpqm5I/AAAAAAAAJdA/vAgRg3zopNwzKYcBieqjfNdX8ugKSgNAwCLcB/s1600/a4.JPG)
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Norton are great, Commandos especially.
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I now have a lead on a 1973 850 Commando. This one is much more stock. It has the twin Amal carbs. The only non-stock items appear to be the Corbin seat and the electronic ignition.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Norton/IMG_1573_zps4dmaymwj.jpg)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Norton/IMG_1574_zpsz843hzsj.jpg)
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Looks like a beauty!
Can I come take it for a ride after you get it?
I now have a lead on a 1973 850 Commando. This one is much more stock. It has the twin Amal carbs. The only non-stock items appear to be the Corbin seat and the electronic ignition.
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Norton/IMG_1573_zps4dmaymwj.jpg)
(http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm21/JonTravisKing/Norton/IMG_1574_zpsz843hzsj.jpg)
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Looks like a beauty!
Can I come take it for a ride after you get it?
Anytime you travel south give me a call and stop in.
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Oh yeah. I had the serious hots for one when I was a kid. Fortunately.. :smiley: I couldn't afford it. I wasn't a good enough mechanic to even *think* about maintaining a Velo then.
God I still dream about them, despite having ridden a few Thruxtons and Venom Clubmans. I think it would be better to get a MAC so you didn't have to worry about launching pistons.
My friend battled for years with one. Lots of money, lots of heartache.
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"I now have a lead on a 1973 850 Commando. This one is much more stock. It has the twin Amal carbs. The only non-stock items appear to be the Corbin seat and the electronic ignition."
This looks like a better bike.
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"I now have a lead on a 1973 850 Commando. This one is much more stock. It has the twin Amal carbs. The only non-stock items appear to be the Corbin seat and the electronic ignition."
This looks like a better bike.
I agree. The 850s came with many improvements vs the 750s. Engine cases and centerstand among them.
Pete
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"I now have a lead on a 1973 850 Commando. This one is much more stock. It has the twin Amal carbs. The only non-stock items appear to be the Corbin seat and the electronic ignition."
This looks like a better bike.
I agree. The 850s came with many improvements vs the 750s. Engine cases and centerstand among them.
Pete
The black '73 Norton definitely has the look I like. It belongs to the brother of a good friend and has been well taken care of. However, it resides in North Dakota and if we strike a deal it would be brought to my area in a van in July by my good friend.
The pink Norton is available right now and I sort of know the mechanic who put it together. He has an excellent reputation and this bike seems to run really well. I just need a petcock, a new battery, and new tires. I'll be riding it within 2 weeks and enjoying the spring riding season. It is also going to cost substantially less than the '73.
I'm pretty sure I'm going to wait for the '73. Although I wish I could ride it now so I could know for sure if it rides and feels as wonderful as the pink Norton.
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Anytime you travel south give me a call and stop in.
Will do. I need to let the back heel from my recent spinal fusion surgery for a while first.
I'll hopefully be cleared to ride by summer.
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Had a Norton Interstate with the combat motor. Six gallon tank and disk on front, stopped good. One of the best handling of the Brit bikes I owned. Wish I had it back.