Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: sidecarnutz on April 13, 2017, 04:31:15 PM
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I was finally able to afford their 450 watt charging rig for my old 1990 Guzzi Cali III. It has the Surprisa alternator in it from the factory. All original and antique now. I'm surprised, pun intended, it still works. At this age, the alternator behaves like a weak Bosch system. A couple hours at 3k rpm is needed to bring the volt meter up to a decent reading. Note, I took out the stock Vaguelia meter and installed a better one a while back.
I get a feeling this system with its permanent magnet rotor will give a far better charge! Should be here Friday. Saturday will be a fun day. I'll finishing the sidecar mounting on the bike too, so it'll road worthy again shortly!
When riding around town, it always left me with the feeling the system was losing more amps than it took in!
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Rich,
I'll be very interested in your results. It seems EME has the only electrically reasonable replacement for the dodgy Saprisa system. I have been considering it for years for my Mille.
Brian
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I installed one in my SP. Best thing I ever did for it. No more charging worries at any speed. Actually use a few lights and heating elements if you want.
Just be sure to pay attention to the part about using their little hardened tool for removing the old alternator. If you try to use a bit of nail or something, you're in for some machine work ... !
Otherwise a simple installation.
Lannis
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I installed one in my SP. Best thing I ever did for it. No more charging worries at any speed. Actually use a few lights and heating elements if you want.
Just be sure to pay attention to the part about using their little hardened tool for removing the old alternator. If you try to use a bit of nail or something, you're in for some machine work ... !
Otherwise a simple installation.
Lannis
yes get the special rotor remover tool. I think it's about $12 at MGcycle
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yes get the special rotor remover tool. I think it's about $12 at MGcycle
As I remember, the EuroMoto kit includes the things you need to properly remove the old one. Did a few years ago, anyway ....
Lannis
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I have one of those in my 89 Lemans. It works great, you will be pleased.
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Good to hear. Thanks folks!
I've removed rotors before on Bosch equipped bikes. Putting a section of hard hex wrench, cut to length, under a bolt pops it right off. If the kit doesn't have the tool, I'll machine the threads off a bolt and use that. I've owned a lathe since 1997, gotta use it once in a while!
Working to finish a customers sidecar seat right now so I'll be free to do my own projects this weekend!
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If the original comes off like my R75/5 wit a tapered shaft, a little tip. Tighten up the tool / bolt and hard rod very firmly and give the end of the tool a good tap with a hammer. Pops it right off. If I don;t do this I could tighten away and it just stays in place. At least it works that way on my bike.
Tom
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You're right Tom. That is the best way to do it. A little mechanical shock under tension will release it!
Looks like its coming today! Dang! 48 hours for delivery. They shipped it an hour after I ordered! Great service!
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Saprisa was a permanent magnet alternator, not energized like the bosch
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My stator is labeled Saprisa and it has a rotor with slip rings and brushes. Maybe Guzzi was just using up spare parts when my bike was assembled? Perhaps I got the old crank with the taper for Bosch rotor? Hope this new one fits.
New system just arrived. Tool for rotor removal is there. Double boxed and well packaged! Pieces look well made. Very nice machine work. I'll dig into it tomorrow. Still have a cushion to finish this afternoon.
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I'm surprised someone hasn't offered me shipping to send them the old alternator after I remove it!
I know there are some seriously cheap bastards in the Guzzi group who will work for hours to save a buck compared to doing a high quality repair. That, because "limping along" is just fine. The system is still working, it is just weak IMO. I have yet to have the battery in the bike die. ;-)
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I loved the one I put on the T5. Great being able to hook up extra lights and heated gear and not see a low voltage condition, even at a stoplight.
I also installed the solid state rectifier/regulator at the same time.
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I'm surprised someone hasn't offered me shipping to send them the old alternator after I remove it!
I know there are some seriously cheap bastards in the Guzzi group who will work for hours to save a buck compared to doing a high quality repair. That, because "limping along" is just fine. The system is still working, it is just weak IMO. I have yet to have the battery in the bike die. ;-)
I'll take for shipping cost for my T3 basket case. I never use much electrical accessories so it should be fine.
Thanks
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I loved the one I put on the T5. Great being able to hook up extra lights and heated gear and not see a low voltage condition, even at a stoplight.
I also installed the solid state rectifier/regulator at the same time.
This kit comes with a Ducati regulator. It really is a complete kit!
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I'll take for shipping cost for my T3 basket case. I never use much electrical accessories so it should be fine.
Thanks
You can write me at sidecarnutz @ hotmail.com and I'll set it up!
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Yep, I like the package they put together. All the wires, crimp connectors, etc. Good instructions too.
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Update. Started installation today. It seems to be a brilliant piece of kit! Very exacting fit. Three more wires to hook up and I'll be test running it tomorrow!
Outstanding installation manual too! Everything gets explained three different ways. I'm trained as a mechanic, vice an electrician. But I did go through BE&E in the Navy and I have repaired 12vdc systems in cars and bikes for many years. I found the manual very easy to understand and use!
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Could you post a pic of that Saprisa? Neither of mine have slip rings.
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Anyone install one of these kits on an EV?
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Anyone install one of these kits on an EV?
It's the same Ducati Electronica stuff you already have Nick. The only difference with the EME kit is the "core" of the rotor has been replaced with one machined to fit the early Tonti tapered-nose crank.
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Anyone install one of these kits on an EV?
Yes I did.
Well, it came on there from the factory.
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Yes I did.
Well, it came on there from the factory.
The reason I asked is that the Company "claims" 450 watts, which would be a little more than the EV's output.
Thanks
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I was mistaken about the old alternator. It was a standard Saprisa with the permanent magnet rotor. No pics. I shipped it this morning to the guy who wanted it.
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The reason I asked is that the Company "claims" 450 watts, which would be a little more than the EV's output.
Thanks
I tried to find out about that a couple of times. As far as I could tell, there are no 'special' parts to get higher numbers.
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I installed one into my T3 recently. Fantastic! No more alternator lights coming on or not enough charge to start the bike after a three hour ride with the headlight on. Well worth the money and easy to install too.
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I didn't finish today. Spent the morning on a supply run to get customer materials. Had the grand baby here this afternoon. Big distraction there! Tomorrow is another day.
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Nuts
Murphy's Law has reared its ugly head. Got the bike done and all buttoned back up. Not easy on a Cali III with it's huge tank and awful petcock mechanism...... Cranked it after putting 5 gallons of fresh premium into it. Cranked slow and I heard rubbing. :shocked:
So maybe the stator or rotor is cocked. Nuts. Rotated OK by hand when I tested that. Luckily it's still on the stand. (Love that HF bike stand!) I'll jack it up after lunch and sit down next to it and pull the alt cover off and look for signs of contact. Hopefully the stator wiring isn't eaten up.
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Take a brass feeler gauge that is used to set ignition reluctor clearance in Chrysler ignitions, usually about .008, most feeler gauge sets have them. Run that around between the rotor and the stator, it should slip through, turn the engine a 1/4 turn and try again all around, do this a couple of times. If it goes through no problem you are good to go, but if you find a tight spot you are going to have to figure out why. DonG
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Thanks. I'll do that. Right now I believe the rotor is slipping on the tapered crank. I'll remove it and check for rub marks and clean the taper surfaces. Then reinstall and check clearances.
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Thanks. I'll do that. Right now I believe the rotor is slipping on the tapered crank. I'll remove it and check for rub marks and clean the taper surfaces. Then reinstall and check clearances.
I had installed one of these on a Cal III several years ago and the taper on the EME rotor was wrong. They sent me a replacement next day air no charge.
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Rotor seemed to fit OK. It ran true as I cranked it with the stator off to inspect run out. I refitted the stator and it seemed to square up just fine this time. No more contact points. It had a few very small rub marks and I cleaned them off with 400 grit emery and blew them off before reinstalling.
Bike cranked immediately and started before I even turned the fuel tap on! With no more rubbing, it cranked fast! I let it warm up and turned the fuel tap on. Got 14.1 volts to the battery at idle speed. Wow. Never did that well before. Then I revved it to 3k rpms for a check. 16.7 volts. Uh oh. Shut it off. I need to find a better place to plug in the black wire on the regulator that senses voltage. (This is covered well in the manual.) I plugged it into a connector that the old regulator used. Apparently not a good spot. Reads 9.5 volts when the ignition is on. Need to tap into a stronger circuit. The fuse box is right near there so I'll get busy with my FLUKE and find a better spot to wire it in.
With just that to take care of, I am getting very pleased with this project. A strong battery makes for a happy machine! Back to work!
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OK, I'll call it ready to ride now. One issue is that NONE of the bikes circuits read 12.5 volts at rest once switched on. I found one that was close to that in the harness tied off to the rear frame. I tapped into that for the sensing circuit of the reg. Now with the bike running I read 12.7 volts at the battery at idle and 14.8 volts at 3k rpm. I can live with that. I will check it frequently as well as battery water level. I have had many Japanese bikes over the years approach 15 volts charging and the main effect seems to be lowering the water level in the battery over time. I use the big old fashioned tractor batteries in this bike. So I feel this OK for now and maybe as good as it gets. Looking forwards to a test ride tomorrow!
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For you detail mavens. Battery read 13.1 volts at rest. Its a year old. So I believe it to be a healthy battery.
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As for that crazy fuel shutoff system, remove the guts and bin it. Fashion a block off plate and then put a length of fuel line on long enough tobreach outside the frame rails. Install a Briggs & Stratton inline shutoff valve and then a length of line to the right carb. Easy to remove/install tank.
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As for that crazy fuel shutoff system, remove the guts and bin it. Fashion a block off plate and then put a length of fuel line on long enough tobreach outside the frame rails. Install a Briggs & Stratton inline shutoff valve and then a length of line to the right carb. Easy to remove/install tank.
I planned a different solution. What bothers me is the lack of a reserve setting. Even with a new sensor, I can't get the low fuel light to work! So I plan to install a regular petcock sometime and make a new clamp and cable to make a lever on the side panel to work it. I could live with it if it has a reserve setting.
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John also sells parts to rebuild a Valeo starter too. :thumb:
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This bike actually has the older style Bosch starter on it. The late 80's and early 90's were a transition period for their bikes. They could be real mix masters in how the factory equipped them!
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He has stuff for Bosch starters too.
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I bought a replacement rotor from EME for my BMW R100 to have as a spare. Its not the permanent magnet type, just an old Bosch system.
The rotor was hitting the stator. I suspected poor taper machining and called EME out on it. There was way too much radial run-out.
EME offered me no replacements or money back.
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I removed the stator the other day and ran the bike on the starter to check for run out on the rotor. It looked good. After remounting the stator, there was no more rubbing. Must have worked its way thru a snug spot on the second try and seated well. Had to drive to the next city over for a state inspection this morning. The closer station had no mechanic today. Waited in line a couple hours to get it done. The old girl passed with no issues. On the way home I noticed my boot slipping off the front of the shifter on down shifts! Nuts. Stopped at a hardware store and looked. I thought perhaps I messed up the new crank seal for the alternator. Nope. That was fine. I just had a spontaneous drip from the left valve cover. Perfectly aimed at the shifter knob and my toe! Murphy's Law having fun with me. Pretty rare IME to have those leak and actually drip on you! Easy to fix this afternoon though. Bike ran great and the new alternator did a fine job!
Love these old Cali's! Really fine all purpose bike.
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Sensor location. When I first put mine on I used a relay directly (through a fuse) to the battery.
Later on I found a spot on the fuse block where the voltage drop was just at 0.1V That worked too.
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Permanent magnet rotors are just what their name says. That means they pick up swarf and monopoly pieces as well as washers and whatever else they're near. I've opened up 'rubbing' alternators to find stuff had stuck to the rotor during someone else's installation and gouged up the rotor and stator. So be careful to wipe down the rotor before installing the stator.
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Sensor location. When I first put mine on I used a relay directly (through a fuse) to the battery.
Later on I found a spot on the fuse block where the voltage drop was just at 0.1V That worked too.
This is a great idea. I will set up a relay powered circuit to power the volt meter and the sensor for the alternator. Then they'll both finally have good readings. Put 60 miles on the bike today. Alternator did a fine job.