Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: willowstreetguzziguy on April 15, 2017, 09:37:24 AM
-
Just curious as to why Sport Touring pretty much died. Or maybe it's not. Thoughts?...
-
Is it dead ?
Dusty
-
Looking at the bikes manufactured today, the major brands seem to thinks so or at least on "life support."
-
It got squeezed out by all the sport bikes and cruisers.
Lots of guys have a Harley and a cheap map sport bike
-
Or did the category get gobbled up by the Adventure GS bikes? Maybe that is the NEW Sport Touring. And maybe the rest are not venturing far from home unless they have an 800 lb. full dresser?
-
Maybe because in reality sport turing bikes are not really very good at either function they are aimed at satisfying.
-
(http://supersport.ducati.com/supersport/assets/media/overview/image-1/1024.jpg?ggryh7zxgvi)
This one is supposed debut this month. In fact, I am headed to the dealer now to see if it's been delivered.
-
Maybe it's not dead, and not even dying.
Euro-Bike Day last week was full of Ducati STs, Guzzi Norges, three Aprilia Futuras, and that was just the Italian ones, BMWs were there too .... ?
Lannis
-
Looking at the bikes manufactured today, the major brands seem to thinks so or at least on "life support."
Yamaha , Honda , BMW , Kawasaki , and until now Moto Guzzi are building ST's . The overall market has remained about the same for years , ST's that lean too much towards the S side have always had a small share . What we are seeing more of are ST's that lean towards the T side that handle , brake , and go like sportier bikes from a few years back . The MCling population is aging , most of us have a hard time remaining comfortable on bikes with truly racy ergos .
Dusty
-
Please define "sport touring bike"
Every moto I have in the states (3) could be classed as "sport" machines.
When I had a 1150 GS I went on the track with "sport" machines for track days and could hang in with all but the well ridden repli racers. So "adventure "machines could fall into that class as well.
Sport touring casts a broad stroke as even my old CX is in that category to me!
:-)
-
Maybe it's not dead, and not even dying.
Euro-Bike Day last week was full of Ducati STs, Guzzi Norges, three Aprilia Futuras, and that was just the Italian ones, BMWs were there too .... ?
Lannis
ST, Norge, and Futura all discontinued - no longer in production. My "sport-tourer" is 25 years old (K75s). I think the Honda 800 Interceptor would be a fabulous sport-touring mount.
I didn't know sport-touring was dead... but it does make sense that a lot of people switched from traditional sport tourers to big adventure bikes. Last I saw, BMW's GS bikes outsell all the other bikes. Just my experience here... but I got frustrated on my R1100RT by not being able to keep going when the asphalt turned to dirt (or especially when it turned to rocks or deep sand). That's when I got a KTM 950 Adventure. If I were to buy another touring bike, it would be an adventure bike, because I do like to explore on the 4WD roads. I'd probably go with the Honda Africa Twin or the BMW F800GS - but only soft bags.
-
Sport touring is a verb. Sport tourer may describe someone who partakes of sport touring.
As applied to a motorcycle, it is a marketing term that I never understood.
-
Sport or touring or adventure. It all depends on what happens as you are traveling.
Sometimes it can be called 'mis-adventure non-touring " But at least it's doing motorcycling 😁
-
Not dead, the pendulum of the fickle buying public has just swung away from them.
Back in the 90's wasn't Adventure Bikes all the Rage?
A decade ago you could make the same statement about Italian Cars in the US.
Mark
-
IMO, only the marketing label (and possibly the overuse of tupperware :rolleyes:), not the concept, is dead.
Every day, Guzzisti do it.
Actually, so do Harley, Beemer, dual-sporters, even RE folks do sport-touring.
Me? I'm cleaning up for company this weekend or I would be out there, too!
Bill
-
I'm with Bill, the marketing label is dead. It's not cool. Maybe because touring is for old farts and anything associated with touring/old is by definition not cool. "Adventure" whatever, in contrast, is cool. So, the sport touring is now adventure riding (almost all on the road) because the sport riders want hyper sport and the tourer market already is cool with being old and uncool.
Ironically, the sport touring rigs have a more aggressive riding position than the adventure rigs, so you can get older and cooler by transitioning from an ST rig to an adventure rig.
Of course, DOING sport touring can be done with a whole range of bikes, it's the marketing and specific product development for that niche which appears to have morphed into 'adventure'.
-
It ssems the moto mags, etc call a Hayabusa with a tank bag a sport touring bike.
-
To me "Sport Touring" is a sport bike with enough touring equipment that you can travel with it, at sporting speeds. My '89 Lemans was a perfect ST. Comfy enough, and fast enough to cover the miles.
Mark
-
ST, Norge, and Futura all discontinued - no longer in production.
That may be true, but it's really irrelevant to the activity of "Sport Touring".
I'm a member of a couple of very active riding communities, where the companies that made our motorcycles have been dead for 40 to 50 years.
There are enough Sport Touring bikes out there right now, if no one made any more of them, for every sport touring guy alive today to ride for the rest of their lives.
So I think we need another criteria than "How Busy Are The Marketing People?". :evil:
Lannis
-
Looking at it from another angle...I have a handful riding friends that were die hard ST bike riders, but have since switched to Harleys or "cruisers" because their wives are markedly overweight, and cant ride comfortably on the back of a sport tourer. Once one of the "girls" gets to relax on the back of a harley ultra, or Victory with a big ol backrest/trunk, its a "done deal"I have observed it spread like a virus, where the other pillon passengers get jealous, and want the same comfort level as the other girls, and before you know it, the ST gets traded in on a cruiser of some sort, mostly to please the little princess! :grin:.......I have personally seen it happen quite a few times.
Rick.
-
The term Sport Touring was made popular by BMW when in 1977 they made the R100RS with the integrated frame mounted sport fairing. It probably always existed in motorcycling. IMHO has always been a ST bike is minimalistic. A small fairing or no fairing, a tank bag, hard or soft saddlebags, and trip that lasts at least 1 overnight stay or more. Either camping or moteling it is involved. Otherwise... its a day trip. Then you move into the "Barn Door" fairings w large travel trunks like Gold Wings and Harleys with every conceivable amenity. I just think Americans have become too soft and want to take the comforts of home with them and heaven help them if they are inconvenienced in any way! I think that accounts for the drop in ST. But then again we have the Adventure / Extreme Sport enthusiasts cropping up that want to push the envelop in the opposite direction.
-
Looking at it from another angle...I have a handful riding friends that were die hard ST bike riders, but have since switched to Harleys or "cruisers" because their wives are markedly overweight, and cant ride comfortably on the back of a sport tourer. Once one of the "girls" gets to relax on the back of a harley ultra, or Victory with a big ol backrest/trunk, its a "done deal"I have observed it spread like a virus, where the other pillon passengers get jealous, and want the same comfort level as the other girls, and before you know it, the ST gets traded in on a cruiser of some sort, mostly to please the little princess! :grin:.......I have personally seen it happen quite a few times.
Rick.
You know, there’s a lot to that theory. Seen it happen often also, but never thought of it that way.
Here’s ONE girl it’s not going to happen to though. She’s vetoed the purchase of a fat cruiser more than once, and she was the one who picked out and bought our last (Triumph) sport-tourer. An Airhawk does all she wants, and off we go.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-RsnJpHG/0/X3/100_1345_2-X3.jpg) (https://lannisselz.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-RsnJpHG/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-Q43DtJh/0/X3/100_1284-X3.jpg) (https://lannisselz.smugmug.com/May-Norton-2015-Trip/i-Q43DtJh/A)
She’s like me; she likes a bike she can RIDE, not a bike where she’s just being dragged along in a Barcalounger. “Honey, when are we going to get there?” “Honey, my butt hurts already, can we stop?” “Do we HAVE to ride any more?” “Baby, I think I’ll just stay home, you go ahead and have a good time ….” EWW!
Lannis
-
I think the aging and increasing size of the general population is making the riding of STs less appealing. Younger guys don't have the money.
GliderJohn
-
Fads come and go...plenty of good used STs out there in Cycle Trader, ADVRider Flea Market, and other venues...check with dealers, too...if something isn't popular, it isn't selling and it's taking up floor space...go in on a rainy day and make a deal... :thumb:
-
Sport or touring or adventure. It all depends on what happens as you are traveling.
Sometimes it can be called 'mis-adventure non-touring " But at least it's doing motorcycling 😁
-
Lannis, our wives are very much alike in that they're game for whatever floats our boat. When we first got together I took my wife Judy on a multi day trip around death valley from norCal on the back of my CX100. She loved it. We've travelled together on sidecar rigs, Yamaha 650 Std.(she hated it), VX800, 750 Breva, MuZ 660, cross country on a Convert., you name it, she's game. :bow:
When we first got together I didn't know she had already ridden cross country with her ex on the back of a Harley that broke down repeatedly. :shocked:
To me all my bikes are sport/tourers except the hacks & Convert.
-
Great Pics, Lannis! You are a very lucky man! :thumb: :thumb:
Rick.
-
Riders becoming too soft? For what? Needless suffering?
It is, after all, supposed to be fun.
-
Great Pics, Lannis! You are a very lucky man! :thumb: :thumb:
Rick.
:1: nice outfit . The bikes are nice, too :evil: :azn:
-
The Kid and I are going to do the mutton run, then a week in the Carolinas on our respective Spot and Mighty Scura in May/June.
I guess we didn't know sport touring was dead. Dang! We'll be out of style. :evil: :smiley:
-
Riders becoming too soft? For what? Needless suffering?
It is, after all, supposed to be fun.
All a matter of degree. People suffer climbing mountains, running 10 mile races, lifting weights, riding competitive motocross, doing century bicycle rides. If the main thing is to "reduce suffering", we'd not only get off our sport bikes onto fat cruisers, but we'd (Why freeze and get soaked and risk our lives on those) be in a Volvo with active lumbar support and a 10-speaker stereo. :afro:
Riding a high-performance motorcycle IS fun, for most of us. When it's not, it's time to quit, maybe play shuffleboard or something ... :wink:
Lannis
-
The FJR and Connie just got a recent makeover. Yamaha recently intro'd the FJ09. Kawasaki updated and expanded the Versys line along with Suzuki improving the Vstom line. Honda... what the hell were they thinking???? Well my wife does sport tour on a CB500X.
Ducati still selling Multistrada's and Hypertrada's, along with a return of a new ST (as John mentioned above. BMW are still selling the R and K sport touring bikes along with the 800GT. And I agree that the big adventure bikes with their top shelf suspensions are more sport touring than single track dual sports.
A sport touring bike (noun) is a bike with some lean angle, decent handling, decent range and the ability to carry some luggage (hard or soft), even if it is just a little luggage rack with a yellow bag strapped on (DK content). Sport touring (verb) is going places away from home and riding the roads in a sporting manner. I know a couple guys around here that ride their Cali's in a sport touring way.
-
My sport/touring has taken somewhat of a nose dive because I don't live in motomecca(norCal) anymore. Close proximity to great curvy roads are non-existent here in the desert. If I still lived in Yuba City, Ca. I'd still be ripping up corners to my hearts content. Now when I get to curvy areas I don't have my mojo any more. It takes me awhile to get it back again with practice in the curves. If you don't use it, you lose it. :evil:
-
The FJR and Connie just got a recent makeover. Yamaha recently intro'd the FJ09. Kawasaki updated and expanded the Versys line along with Suzuki improving the Vstom line. Honda... what the hell were they thinking???? Well my wife does sport tour on a CB500X.
Ducati still selling Multistrada's and Hypertrada's, along with a return of a new ST (as John mentioned above. BMW are still selling the R and K sport touring bikes along with the 800GT. And I agree that the big adventure bikes with their top shelf suspensions are more sport touring than single track dual sports.
A sport touring bike (noun) is a bike with some lean angle, decent handling, decent range and the ability to carry some luggage (hard or soft), even if it is just a little luggage rack with a yellow bag strapped on (DK content). Sport touring (verb) is going places away from home and riding the roads in a sporting manner. I know a couple guys around here that ride their Cali's in a sport touring way.
Yes, for decades Moto Guzzi is the only brand bike that has made cruisers (Calis) that really corner too. :thumb:
-
Perhaps"Sports Touring" is a marketing ploy that has had it's time to be overtaken by Giant Trailies and more recently Bobbers and Scramblers
-
Just curious as to why Sport Touring pretty much died. Or maybe it's not. Thoughts?...
Good post, in retrospect. Good because I've been thinking "What's wrong with this proposition?" all day, and I figured it out.
Sport Touring is not a thing whose "dying" can affect anyone who is interested in it.
It's similar to saying:
"Hand tying of trout flies is dying."
"Longbow archery is dying."
"Building and flying Wakefield models is dying."
"Riding fat-tired beach bicycles is dying."
"Two-handed Canasta is dying."
"Train-spotting is dying."
It doesn't really mean anything, because the whole world is divided into two parts when it comes to this. There are the people who DON'T do longbow archery, never heard of it, or used to do it and now use compound or recurve bows .... and there are people who DO enjoy longbow archery, and will continue to do it as long as they like.
For the people who don't do it, if the sport is "dying" it's completely irrelevant. For the people who DO do it, if the sport is "dying" it's completely irrelevant. Longbow archery has been "dying" ever since Agincourt, when you could get put in the stocks for not practicing at the village butts on the weekend. But what does that really mean? Nothing; nothing at all.
Same for "sport touring" motorcycles. The ones who don't do it are "outside" and don't care, and the ones who DO will .... do it, regardless of the perceived "health" of the hobby.
So, that's me wasting a bit of time on a nice Saturday. Cutting grass and weed-eating, that's been it today.
Lannis
-
I don't think it's dead, but the Adv bikes have drawn the interest away.
With the varied quality of roads over here ST's loose out just a touch.
I use a car only if I have to so a bike I can just about anything on is
important as I'm not exactly floating in filthy lucre - an ST or an Adv.
Bike is the best choice for me, if I had the reddies I'd have a Stelvio
in a heartbeat.
Maurie.
-
I LOVE Adventure Bikers! While they're communing with rocks and trees, I have more pavement to myself... :evil:
-
I sport toured my ass off today :laugh: And I don't need no steenking bike labeled a "sport tourer"
-
1. Get a cool bike.
2. Tell everyone your nickname is 'Sport'.
3. Take a trip.
Instant Sport Tourer!
(easier than steel-cut oats... :wink:)
-
1. Get a cool bike.
2. Tell everyone your nickname is 'Sport'.
3. Take a trip.
Instant Sport Tourer!
(easier than steel-cut oats... :wink:)
And the air is fresher!
-
Hell, anyone who questions if I sport/tour on my bikes that are not supposed to be able to do that can just follow me in the twisties and then decide if I do or not. :azn: If there aren't curves to enjoy then you're not sport/touring, IMHO. Anyone can go fast in a straight line. It's the curves that separate the men from the boys. :boxing:
-
Here's my thoughts on this thread:
- My Guzzi 1200 Sport is a sport tourer.
- A Norge, either 2 or 4 valve per cylinder is a touring bike
- A BMW R1200RS is a sport tourer
- A BMW R1200Rt is a touring bike
This list could go on, and on, but ......
To me, a sport touring bike is one that takes the best elements of the manufacturer's touring bike, and slims it down, slightly changes the rider's posture to more of a 'lean into it,' perhaps adds better suspension.
The bike isn't designed to make touring more of a sporting proposition. It's designed for those who like less than a full touring bike, but who like the basic design features of the full bore tourer, without the barn door fairing and windshield, and the higher handlebars.
I've succumbed to the full fairing thing a couple of times (K1100LT and ST1300.) and there was nothing wrong with either bike. Except neither gave me the feeling I personally wanted from a bike when riding cross country. Both bikes protected me more than I liked from the elements, mainly the wind. And after less than 10,000 miles, they were gone. It is a personal thing.
To me, a well-designed sport tourer lets me enjoy the elements surrounding me more so than would a full blown touring bike. But at the same time, when the elements turn bad (wetter, colder, etc) the sport touring bike provides enough protection to make the ride ok.
I think what it all comes down to is ......... what feels good to you when you're riding. How'd Popeye say it? ..... "I am what I am and that's all what I am."
Bob
-
Norge is a GT-Gran Turismo, hence the more comfort oriented ride.
-
Here's my thoughts on this thread:
- My Guzzi 1200 Sport is a sport tourer.
- A Norge, either 2 or 4 valve per cylinder is a touring bike
- A BMW R1200RS is a sport tourer
- A BMW R1200Rt is a touring bike
This list could go on, and on, but ......
To me, a sport touring bike is one that takes the best elements of the manufacturer's touring bike, and slims it down, slightly changes the rider's posture to more of a 'lean into it,' perhaps adds better suspension.
The bike isn't designed to make touring more of a sporting proposition. It's designed for those who like less than a full touring bike, but who like the basic design features of the full bore tourer, without the barn door fairing and windshield, and the higher handlebars.
I've succumbed to the full fairing thing a couple of times (K1100LT and ST1300.) and there was nothing wrong with either bike. Except neither gave me the feeling I personally wanted from a bike when riding cross country. Both bikes protected me more than I liked from the elements, mainly the wind. And after less than 10,000 miles, they were gone. It is a personal thing.
To me, a well-designed sport tourer lets me enjoy the elements surrounding me more so than would a full blown touring bike. But at the same time, when the elements turn bad (wetter, colder, etc) the sport touring bike provides enough protection to make the ride ok.
I think what it all comes down to is ......... what feels good to you when you're riding. How'd Popeye say it? ..... "I am what I am and that's all what I am."
Bob
I pretty much agree, Bob, in that sport/tourers weigh less than touring bikes and therefore go thru corners easier. I do not consider my Convert. a sport/tourer because of it's weight and handling compared to a real ST. A Convert. handles like a PU truck, IMHO. At least the way I set it up.
-
Sport touring is a verb. Sport tourer may describe someone who partakes of sport touring.
As applied to a motorcycle, it is a marketing term that I never understood.
Is that what a "cross over" is? I have never understood what that's all about!
-
The Sport - touring guys got old and switched to ADVbikes, the newish street - oriented ADVtouring bikes. Oh, and cruiserz.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
-
As a prime example of one of those 'Older Guys' I have to say that the reasons I would take a Stelvio over a Norge are partly due to versatility and partly due to the lack, or at least minimal quantity, of bodywork.
Taking a Norge on dirt roads is possible but fraught with danger as even a low speed lay-down will be severely damaging to vast expanses of bodywork. I can't toss the Stelvio with impunity but I can drop it without serious damage. It's also got longer travel, and much better suspension which makes graded dirt a breeze.
As for 'Cruisers'? I tried one, a Cali 1400, in 2013 and rode it in the environment it was obviously designed for, the US road system, which is superior in both quality and extent to most other places on the planet. I found it seriously wanting and know I'll never own another, but that's me. They are obviously popular but I can't for the life of me understand why? Far too heavy, rotten suspension, grossly over long wheelbase, no cornering clearance and steer like a 1960's London Bus! Each to their own though.
Pete
-
It's pretty tough to haul luggage and camping gear for two on a bike that has a sporting pretense. Gross vehicle weight and wind protection come into play, and if folks even think that they might do some unsupported touring, they tend to err on the side of massive. Unfortunately, our fantasies often fuel our consumerism...
-
I habitually peel all the labels off a new-to-me bike as soon as I get it home. That way I'll never know if I'm using it 'properly'.
-
As a prime example of one of those 'Older Guys' I have to say that the reasons I would take a Stelvio over a Norge are partly due to versatility and partly due to the lack, or at least minimal quantity, of bodywork.
Taking a Norge on dirt roads is possible but fraught with danger as even a low speed lay-down will be severely damaging to vast expanses of bodywork. I can't toss the Stelvio with impunity but I can drop it without serious damage. It's also got longer travel, and much better suspension which makes graded dirt a breeze.
As for 'Cruisers'? I tried one, a Cali 1400, in 2013 and rode it in the environment it was obviously designed for, the US road system, which is superior in both quality and extent to most other places on the planet. I found it seriously wanting and know I'll never own another, but that's me. They are obviously popular but I can't for the life of me understand why? Far too heavy, rotten suspension, grossly over long wheelbase, no cornering clearance and steer like a 1960's London Bus! Each to their own though.
Pete
wait till you ride a 'glide, 1600GTL or better yet, a Chieftain. :wink:
-
If an Eldo is doing the ton, is it a Sport Tourer? Labels mean nothing to anyone but the uneducated.
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskimo Spy
-
If an Eldo is doing the ton, is it a Sport Tourer? Labels mean nothing to anyone but the uneducated.
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskimo Spy
:1:
Dusty
-
If an Eldo is doing the ton, is it a Sport Tourer? Labels mean nothing to anyone but the uneducated.
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskimo Spy
Speed is less relevant than lean angle. :evil:
-
Riding a high-performance motorcycle IS fun, for most of us. When it's not, it's time to quit, maybe play shuffleboard or something ... :wink:
Lannis
No shuffleboard, I have another Wakefield to build along with a Goldberg/Comet Sailplane and Zipper to RC. Then there's flies to tie. Something that being nearsighted does not hinder.
Won one and lost one today. Got the V50 to run better - it was the old throttle cables. Punched a couple of holes by mistake seatcovering the Griso's seat. Well superglue is my friend and maybe in a few years I'll try to recover the seat again
Mark
-
Speed is less relevant than lean angle. :evil:
I put the Ambo., Eldo. in the same category as the Convert. No way are they sport/tourers. They are tourers. :thumb:
-
A new leftover 2014 VStrom 1000 for $8k. ADV/sport tourer/whatever...lot of new bike for not much dash. No idea who the dealer is.
https://greensboro.craigslist.org/mcd/6072071859.html
-
A new leftover 2014 VStrom 1000 for $8k. ADV/sport tourer/whatever...lot of new bike for not much dash. No idea who the dealer is.
https://greensboro.craigslist.org/mcd/6072071859.html
When the FJ09 came out the Stroms became second fiddle, Versys too. The bar was raised.
-
When the FJ09 came out the Stroms became second fiddle, Versys too. The bar was raised.
FJ09 fit me well - wide handlebars, right ergos. But a triple isn't a v-twin, not sure which I'd choose. No matter, I'm a one-biker for the foreseeable future. Maybe if we move back north I'll get a mudder for the months when the roads are passable but covered in salty muck.
-
Who said it is dead?
-
Who said it is dead?
That's what we keep arguing. It's not.
-
To me, a sport touring bike is one that takes the best elements of the manufacturer's touring bike, and slims it down, slightly changes the rider's posture to more of a 'lean into it,' perhaps adds better suspension.
The bike isn't designed to make touring more of a sporting proposition. It's designed for those who like less than a full touring bike, but who like the basic design features of the full bore tourer, without the barn door fairing and windshield, and the higher handlebars.
< snip >
To me, a well-designed sport tourer lets me enjoy the elements surrounding me more so than would a full blown touring bike. But at the same time, when the elements turn bad (wetter, colder, etc) the sport touring bike provides enough protection to make the ride ok.
And by that definition one could argue (and I often did taking crap for it here) that a Cali was a Sport Touring Cruiser from Guzzi and the Road King was one from Harley.
Not that it matters.
It's all just a matter of degree, kinda the same concept of downsizing one's 🏍️ it changes relative to one's perspective.
-
If an Eldo is doing the ton, is it a Sport Tourer? Labels mean nothing to anyone but the uneducated.
Bill Lovelady IS
Eskimo Spy
Or perhaps labels are simply a part of language, an easy way to categorize something, but people simply need to understand their significance or lack thereof.
-
I would be curious to know if touring, in general, on a motorcycle is fading. I am 65 and I did my last big tour to Inuvik in 2007. Since then I just haven't had the desire to go on another big trip. When I was in my late teens all I could think of was touring. It was excitement to the max. I wonder if young people see it as exciting these days. I read an article a few years ago that stated that young people see motorcycling as a sport where fat old people ride big and slow bikes. It went on to state that there was little allure for young people. If there is any truth in this article maybe the number of tourers, per capita, is dropping because it doesn't do anything for a lot of our young people.
-
Found this quote on Wiki, attributed to Peter Egan. "The first sport-tourer is said to be the fully faired 1977 BMW R100RS.[1] [2] Journalist Peter Egan defines the sport-tourer as a "café racer that doesn't hurt your wrists and a touring bike that doesn't feel like a tank," and identified the R100RS as the first example he owned.
-
I'm not a big Egan fan but I think he has defined/described the subject pretty well. All my machines fit that, for me at least.
There is not many thing I like better that packing up and seeing what's over the net hill.
:-)
-
To me, a sport touring bike is one that takes the best elements of the manufacturer's touring bike, and slims it down, slightly changes the rider's posture to more of a 'lean into it,' perhaps adds better suspension.
The bike isn't designed to make touring more of a sporting proposition. It's designed for those who like less than a full touring bike, but who like the basic design features of the full bore tourer, without the barn door fairing and windshield, and the higher handlebars.
on the other hand...
To me, a sport touring bike is a sportsbike with bags. The archetype factory sport-touring machine is the Ducati ST2. They took all the elements of the company's best sportsbikes and slightly changed the rider's position to make the bike more comfortable for long days in the saddle.
The bike is designed to make sporting more of a touring proposition. It's designed for those who want more long distance comfort than a full sporting bike, and some of the features of a "tourer" without all the unnecessary size and weight.
So, I guess these are examples of the differences in SPORT-touring and sport-TOURING... LOL!!!
-
My introduction to "sport-touring" came in the 1990s with a bunch of Ducati and Triumph riders I was riding with.
Sport-Touring was some Marsee soft luggage strapped onto our Ducati Monsters, Ducati Supersports, Triumph Daytonas and Guzzi Sport 1100s.
We rode all over the country like that. But especially The Ozarks and The Rockies. Hotels/Motels at night, as we didn't carry camping gear. Into the 2000s we were making one to two week trips like this.
Several riders in the group transitioned onto the Ducati ST2 and ST4 when they became available. Some went to the Triumph Sprint.
That was 20-years ago, now, and many of those guys I rode with don't ride much anymore. None of them transitioned to cruisers. Their miles just went down and down until they didn't ride at all, anymore. Some of the guys that still ride did go to things like the BMW-RT and the Guzzi Norge.
-
Sport Touring?? Is it the motorcycle or is it the rider? Sport Touring, Do you need a specific design motorcycle or is it a state of mind? Sport Touring can it be a 50cc motorcycle or does it have to be bruiser 2.3 liter bike (Triumph)? I realize this is an esoteric discussion and meant to have us muse on our reasons for riding motorcycles.
A rose by any other name is still a rose.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eC7FAk/RD400_sport_tourer.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eC7FAk)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bKMWi5/GT500_sport_tourer.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bKMWi5)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jXUTVk/V7_sport_tourer_Medium.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jXUTVk)
-
Isn't this just the "V7 isn't a touring bike" debate on another category. I.E. it's all just semantics.
Seems to me a sizable number of conflicts in this world come down to just plain misunderstanding of intent/meaning.
-
on the other hand...
To me, a sport touring bike is a sportsbike with bags. The archetype factory sport-touring machine is the Ducati ST2. They took all the elements of the company's best sportsbikes and slightly changed the rider's position to make the bike more comfortable for long days in the saddle.
The bike is designed to make sporting more of a touring proposition. It's designed for those who want more long distance comfort than a full sporting bike, and some of the features of a "tourer" without all the unnecessary size and weight.
So, I guess these are examples of the differences in SPORT-touring and sport-TOURING... LOL!!!
That's a good point!
The riders I have encountered (most) out touring are on the "sport touring" type so named by the manufacturers and magazines like the one Egan wrote for.
In SoCal the sport types are leathered up repli-racers out for a weekend charge thru the mountains. I don't consider them to be touring.
But then the types I have been riding with on a regular? basis lean toward a real sport/repli-racer with minimum luggage and solo.
I still try and do a trip once a year or so with guys living in Europe that is pretty intense ops and two are in their eighties.
Got to give the marketing guys their due on figuring out how to bring out the Walter Mitty in those inclined.
:-)
-
Found this quote on Wiki, attributed to Peter Egan. "The first sport-tourer is said to be the fully faired 1977 BMW R100RS.[1] [2] Journalist Peter Egan defines the sport-tourer as a "caf� racer that doesn't hurt your wrists and a touring bike that doesn't feel like a tank," and identified the R100RS as the first example he owned.
Not an authority on the subject but I think over here the R90S was
considered the first S/T - didn't that pre-date the R100?
My introduction to "sport-touring" came in the 1990s with a bunch of Ducati and Triumph riders I was riding with.
Sport-Touring was some Marsee soft luggage strapped onto our Ducati Monsters, Ducati Supersports, Triumph Daytonas and Guzzi Sport 1100s.
We rode all over the country like that. But especially The Ozarks and The Rockies. Hotels/Motels at night, as we didn't carry camping gear. Into the 2000s we were making one to two week trips like this.
Several riders in the group transitioned onto the Ducati ST2 and ST4 when they became available. Some went to the Triumph Sprint.
That was 20-years ago, now, and many of those guys I rode with don't ride much anymore. None of them transitioned to cruisers. Their miles just went down and down until they didn't ride at all, anymore. Some of the guys that still ride did go to things like the BMW-RT and the Guzzi Norge.
Back in the '70's our sport touring was a Plastic bag with a sleeping bag,
spare T-shirt, sox & jocks, and a few tools. We slept under bridges or off
the side of the road beside a fire.
Buggered if I could b do that now. :rolleyes:
Maurie.
-
Maybe we should question the marketing guys ideas about what a sport touring motorcycle is? Don't trust anyone over 30 and down with the establishment!!! :drool:
this is lots of fun! I like reading about the good ol' bad days of strapping a pillow case full of our things on the back of a rust bucket and hope we make it where we were going and maybe having to hitchhike our way back home, if we were luck we limped home with a rear feeling of accomplishment!!!
Nothing like a good beer buzz in the morning. :boozing:
-
Well then : )
As someone mentioned Tiddlers my very first "trip" was to Bathurst from
Sydney on a Honda Benley 125 Twin when I was 17 ................... ........
Would that be considered Sporting?
Maurie.
-
My first was a 510 mile sojourn on a '74 Yamaha RD200E. Perfect for those 55 mph national speed limit days...and at 309 lbs (full of gas), it was quite sporting.
-
My first was a 510 mile sojourn on a '74 Yamaha RD200E. Perfect for those 55 mph national speed limit days...and at 309 lbs (full of gas), it was quite sporting.
No interstate, right?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
-
Well then : )
As someone mentioned Tiddlers my very first "trip" was to Bathurst from
Sydney on a Honda Benley 125 Twin when I was 17 ................... ........
Would that be considered Sporting?
Maurie.
Don't know the road. Curvy or straight?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
-
No interstate, right?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
A short section of I-10 so I could get through Baton Rouge. That was a pretty cool bike; it would easily hit 85mph and cruised nicely at 62. I just had to keep the revs above 4000 so it would keep the plugs from fouling.
-
Wayne from Arizona is on my wavelength, curves have be an integral part of the trip, more that sightseeing or a rally it a race. The, Alps, Pyrenees, Rockies all good destinations.
-
Don't know the road. Curvy or straight?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
Bit of both : Coastal Plain>Mountain Range>Inland Plain.
You guys would probably think of our Mountains as "Big Hills"
but they seem to take forever on a 125 : )
-
No interstate, right?
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
I didn't hesitate to ride my 1971 Yamaha CS-3 200cc twin on Interstate 81 in that time period to go see my girl. 55 mph limit and cars were running 65 .... on the 20 miles from Troutville to Blacksburg, VA, I'd follow at a discreet distance behind a law abiding truck and just ride.
On back roads, it was quick as anyone. We're just spoiled today; if all we had was what we had in the early 70s, that's what we'd ride ....
Lannis
-
Interstate is just touring. You can do that on any old bike...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
-
My first "big" street bike was a 1981 KZ550 with a luggage rack on back and a National Cycle Plexifairing windshield for the winter and a small sport screen for summer (don't remember the brand). My Uncle had a CB750 four and we would ride over into the Ozarks for weekends regularly. I carried a yellow Dry Rider suit and other clothes and stuff in a big green army surplus duffle bag strapped to the luggage rack and back part of the seat. I was sport touring, dang it! Those trips were to get from straight flat roads to twisty hilly roads and be able to lean the bike over.
I also road my bikes all over the several state area to visit family, friends and go to softball tournaments in the warmer months. Those trips were less sport and more touring or really just traveling.
Now my wife and I sport tour on our FJR and CB500X. Travel to Texas Hill Country for MotoGP and 3 sisters, Colorado for the Rocky Mountains and to the BRP just to ride the roads. We also go to the Ozarks a half dozen times a year for long weekends to see the sights and ride the roads. We wouldn't do it on bikes that can't lean though corner or carry our luggage. They have to sport tourers.
-
Interstate is just touring. You can do that on any old bike...
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk
This. Sport touring, as compared to sport Touring is different. Running down the interstate? You can do that on any sled. :evil: I'd rather be in the car..
-
This. Sport touring, as compared to sport Touring is different. Running down the interstate? You can do that on any sled. :evil: I'd rather be in the car..
So if part of your ride to where you are going on your Ducati ST3 happens to have an Interstate designation, the Ducati is no longer a "Sport Tourer", you aren't "sport touring", and you might as well be in a car?
I think this thread has gone a bit silly. It certainly started pear-shaped.
Lannis
-
So if part of your ride to where you are going on your Ducati ST3 happens to have an Interstate designation, the Ducati is no longer a "Sport Tourer", you aren't "sport touring", and you might as well be in a car?
I think this thread has gone a bit silly. It certainly started pear-shaped.
Lannis
I had an ST2, and avoided the interstates like the plague. Of course, you're right, it is a bit silly. BTW, looked in the mirror lately, pear boy?
<running and ducking>
-
I'm not opposed to burning up a couple hundred interstate miles to get to the twisties quicker. Don't want to waste half a day going and half a day coming back on a short 3 day weekend!
-
Who coined the term "sport touring," and when? Was it originally a marketing category?
I've always bought bikes that could corner, and then toured on them. I didn't consider the 850T a sport bike, but it cornered and I always kept up with my friends who rode "sport" bikes --- sometimes led the way. And I put bags on it and rode multi-day trips. Same with the CB500-4. Same now with the Mille and the F650.
At one point I put a tail box on the T to accomodate Gail, and I hated the way it looked -- like a dressed-out touring rig, rolling along with its fat ass in the air and the center of gravity far away from where it oughta be. Not a recipe for predictable handling. We two-up now with a simple back pad for Gail, and she's quite happy.
For my purposes a sport touring bike is anything that can lean over on a twisty mountain road AND can be equipped for an overnight adventure, either solo or two-up. Doesn't have to come that way from the factory. In short, any well-engineered standard can do the job.
The next question should be who buys standards, and who builds them, and why?
-
Two pics of my favorite sport tourer, the SP II.
The first photo was taken in 1990, the year I bought it (it sat on the showroom floor new from 1987 until Jan, '90, when I bought it).
The second photo was taken in 2014. It hasn't changed a whole lot. The summer lower fairings were the result of a couple of mishaps with a car and a van in a parking lot. They are the originals cut down but I did get factory painted replacements which are safely tucked away.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mHNoFk/SPII_in_1990.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mHNoFk)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/jTZ2ak/SPII_in_2014.jpg) (http://ibb.co/jTZ2ak)
-
I think the ST bikes are dying off because the ADV bikes do almost everything an ST bike can do on the road and a bit more comfortably, and then also ride pretty well off road. Something that an ST doesn't do well at all.
95% or more of the worlds roads are unpaved. That's a lot of territory that is more easily explored with an ADV styled bikes. ADV bikes are the fastest growing segment/class of bike and I'd be willing to bet, that for a lot of people that is the reason. The versatility to ride a wide variety of terrain in relative comfort. There's some amazing tracks out there that aren't really rideable on an ST bike.
It's a tough package to beat, which is why for the life of me, I can't understand Guzzi not having a replacement or next generation for the Stelvio.
-
Sport touring ?
This seems to be a good deal.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/201870840631?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
-
I think the ST bikes are dying off because the ADV bikes do almost everything an ST bike can do on the road and a bit more comfortably, and then also ride pretty well off road. Something that an ST doesn't do well at all.
95% or more of the worlds roads are unpaved. That's a lot of territory that is more easily explored with an ADV styled bikes. ADV bikes are the fastest growing segment/class of bike and I'd be willing to bet, that for a lot of people that is the reason. The versatility to ride a wide variety of terrain in relative comfort. There's some amazing tracks out there that aren't really rideable on an ST bike.
It's a tough package to beat, which is why for the life of me, I can't understand Guzzi not having a replacement or next generation for the Stelvio.
I think this the direct and correct answer to the OP's original question. I disagree that ST is "dead", but it is dying as a bike category and being taken over by ADV bikes.
-
I had an ST2, and avoided the interstates like the plague. Of course, you're right, it is a bit silly. BTW, looked in the mirror lately, pear boy?
<running and ducking>
All right, you. :angry: Took you 6 years to quit doing the "Bike WILL Fit In A Transit Van" Church Lady dance, :thewife: well, you just wait to see what the half-life of this here "pear-shaped" comment will be .... Geez, these "in-shape" guys, like a newly-reformed smoker going around slapping cigarettes out the mouth of the less-abled .... :copcar:
December 2017, we will meet again, here. Photos at 20 paces.
Lannis
-
Most riders appear to have more money to spend on motorcycling these days as compared to the 60's, 70's, and 80's. So many good used bikes available too. So riders are owning 2, 3, 4 or more bikes in their garage, they can have a pure sports bike for Sundays, a touring bike for long trips, and the adv. bike for anywhere in between, and several bikes to tinker on. I agree, the adventure bikes have taken a large chunk of the ST segment.
-
My FIL had a Weimaraner named Sport who loved to go touring in the back of a pick up . Does that make him a Sport Tourer ?
Dusty
-
To me, back in my 20's, sport touring was a fairing or windscreen, tank bag and maybe panniers. When the roads got a little curvy, the speeds increased as did the lean angles. Today, I wonder if the speeding fines have increased to the point only young sports riders are willing to risk the bill?
-
Here you go,far from dead.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/bmw-s1000xr-vs-ktm-1290-super-duke-gt-vs-mv-agusta-turismo-veloce
-
Here you go,far from dead.
http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/bmw-s1000xr-vs-ktm-1290-super-duke-gt-vs-mv-agusta-turismo-veloce
perfect example of why sport-touring motorcycles are dead...
The BMW and the MV are street-oriented ADVtouring bikes.
Ducati ST 2/3/4 carried the Sport-touring torch for years, then handed it off to the Motus MST.
The Motus MST is the very definition of a sport-touring bike a sport-touring guy would want to sport-tour on...
Ducati has positioned its new Supersport as a sport-touring machine. I've not seen one yet, but if Givi makes mounts for the e35 bags for the new Supersport, I could get real excited!!!
-
perfect example of why sport-touring motorcycles are dead...
The BMW and the MV are street-oriented ADVtouring bikes.
Ducati ST 2/3/4 carried the Sport-touring torch for years, then handed it off to the Motus MST.
The Motus MST is the very definition of a sport-touring bike a sport-touring guy would want to sport-tour on...
Ducati has positioned its new Supersport as a sport-touring machine. I've not seen one yet, but if Givi makes mounts for the e35 bags for the new Supersport, I could get real excited!!!
Not to mention what are annual sales of those models? About the same as Guzzi? [emoji28]
-
Not to mention what are annual sales of those models? About the same as Guzzi? [emoji28]
Yes. Exactly. Though I've not seen a recent pie chart, I'd venture that "sport-touring" motorcycles sell in less numbers than even the "Adventure" bikes !!!
-
Oh geez. Sport touring is a motorcycle? I thought it was the rider. As in, when I was in my 20's, I'd stick a toothbrush in my jacket pocket, hope on the Harley, and take off. My dad used to say "so, Sport, you off touring again?" Silly me!
-
The local Ducati shop uncrated the new SS, This one is the SSS (Ohlins bits). Pretty bike but I am not a fan of murder white. The also have a red base model that would probably more my speed.
Looks fantastic. Feels light (I didn't ride it). The windshield raises into "touring position". The riding position is close to my Bandit and not as extreme as my V11 Sport. I started the bike and the sound is perfect, no way would I opt for an after market pipe. Also has riding modes and options including hard saddlebags.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hzQVvk/20170421_135619.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hzQVvk)
ebay photo hosting (http://imgbb.com/)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cCTuMQ/20170421_135644.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cCTuMQ)
-
^^^^ The Indy Ducati dealer has one, too. Looks nice, and if I didn't already have my wind up bikes I might be interested.