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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: DangerDan on April 22, 2017, 08:51:32 PM
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Thinking of increasing the tire size on my 2013 v7 special.
Searched around but havent found what i am looking for..
Front -
Stock is 100/90-18 thinking of going to 110/90
Rear -
Stock is 130/80-17 thinking of going to 140/80
Thinking of this change to fill out the front fender a bit and to even up the circumference front to back.
Clearance measurements of my Speed Deamons shows that I will be clear, however i am thinking of going to BT45 or Scorpion Trail 2.
Has anyone had experience with this size setup or have thoughts about it?
Thoughts on the Scoprion traill 2?
Cheers
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FWIW 110/80-18 is alternative front tire size per V7III specs.
I had Scorpion Trail 2s on my Stelvio. They were good tires but the front cupped pretty early. I am not an aggressive rider, nor very sensitive to the tires. I think they are rated 90/10 on/off road.
Why do you want larger tires? Just for appearance?
I'm looking at 80/20s for my V7II Stone. I like to ride dirt roads as well as pavement.
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1 time I went from a 100/90-18 front tire on my CX100 to a 110/90.....BIG mistake! Made the handling from OK to like a truck. :cry:
On my 750 Breva I went from a 130/80-17 rear to a 130/90 to get longer lasting tires and taller gearing....works for me + it made my speedo accurate. :thumb:
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They're already over tyred. If you want it to *look* good accept the fact it will throw the steering even further into the toilet and will handle like a fridge but I suspect that won't matter too much so as long as they won't roll off the rim? Go fer yer life!
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They're already over tyred. If you want it to *look* good accept the fact it will throw the steering even further into the toilet and will handle like a fridge but I suspect that won't matter too much so as long as they won't roll off the rim? Go fer yer life!
Never thought about it until not but I couldn't agree more with the modern small block being over tired. My V50 with a 90 up front and a 100 in the rear handled worlds better than my 2012 V7R.
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I went with smaller tires, to lower height. Same tire size actually, but some diligent searching showed low profile tires.
They've really worked well.
Sorry for the thread drift.
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FWIW 110/80-18 is alternative front tire size per V7III specs.
I had Scorpion Trail 2s on my Stelvio. They were good tires but the front cupped pretty early. I am not an aggressive rider, nor very sensitive to the tires. I think they are rated 90/10 on/off road.
Why do you want larger tires? Just for appearance?
Yea I saw that 110/80 is an alternative, however i have been looking at the 110/90.
Reason for the change...probably not a good one haha. Was just looking at the bike and thinking that i would like the front fender 'filled' a bit more.
Also a bit of a smoother ride through bumps (or the never ending stream of potholes on my commute), bit of extra cushion.
1 time I went from a 100/90-18 front tire on my CX100 to a 110/90.....BIG mistake! Made the handling from OK to like a truck. :cry:
...Really that much of a difference?! This is my first bike and I ride pretty tame around the city, but certainly dont want a fridge.
The scorpions only come in the 100/90.. so if i go with those its a moot point.
I went with smaller tires, to lower height. Same tire size actually, but some diligent searching showed low profile tires.
They've really worked well.
Which tires did you go for? My original plan was to get Whitewalls (ive got a red/orange + white bike) but they are nowhere to be found in acceptable sizes.
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The heavier big block Guzzis are OK with a 110 front tire but the CX(LM II) bike it was a disaster in the curves even w/a handlebar instead of the clip ons the CX came with. Now my CX has a 110/90-16 on the front and that works great. :thumb: I added that after liking my LM IV w/a 110/90-16 on it's front.
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I really don't think I could get a 130/90/17 in the rear of the Breva. The 80 goes in deflated just to get it in.
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Which tires did you go for? My original plan was to get Whitewalls (ive got a red/orange + white bike) but they are nowhere to be found in acceptable sizes.
I've got Bridgestone Battlax in 100/80 for front, and 130/70 rear. They shave a little height off the bike without any suffering.
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If you are after a smoother ride through bumps, ensure your tyre pressures are around the 36/36 psi recommended. And change your fork oil - that makes a difference, the oil is only supposed to last 6months anyway. If that's not good enough, get a set of Racetech springs for your weight - may need playing about with the pre-load tube, the air gap & the oil weights, and set up your suspension properly, front & rear. They work together. Aftermarket rear shocks make a difference also. The Gazi's on the V7C seem better than the Ikons on the V7S, but either are an improvement on the stock. Worth the cost? Perhaps - depends on how much riding you do, & how long you plan to keep the bike. Change the fork oil first & see how you go.
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I really don't think I could get a 130/90/17 in the rear of the Breva. The 80 goes in deflated just to get it in.
You don't, huh, well I've done it twice with no issues. The only real difference is the OD of the 2 sizes. The centerstand doesn't complain but the sidestand does some. I do it to get longer mileage out of that tire.
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Thinking of increasing the tire size on my 2013 v7 special.
Searched around but havent found what i am looking for..
Front -
Stock is 100/90-18 thinking of going to 110/90
Rear -
Stock is 130/80-17 thinking of going to 140/80
Thinking of this change to fill out the front fender a bit and to even up the circumference front to back.
I agree it would likely hurt handling.
And if evening up circumference is a goal:
100/90 = 90mm of sidewall
110/90 = 91mm of sidewall or +2mm of circumference
130/80 = 104mm of sidewall
140/80 = 112mm of sidewall or +8mm
So net you get the front and rear tires 6mm closer in circumference.
Do you really think that something you're gonna see?
I suspect you will feel the change, not from the balance of circumference but because of the increase in widths (absent some dramatic change in profile).
Not to mention if you're not changing front and rear together the actual front circumference at the tread will mean different circumference when you put a new rear on to go with the partially worn front.
Personally I have changed tire sizes on various bikes, mostly to go down slightly in rear width for quicker break over into turns. I've only ever gone up 10mm once on a front, and that was my current Harley.
I don't think I'd make these changes to my 13 Stone.
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Thanks for the feedback.
A refresh on the suspension is likely due. I dont think that it had been done prior to my owning of the bike.
After further review Ive decided to go with the Scoprion Trail 2. Which means I wont have the option to upsize. Regardless i think the feedback received turned me against that plan.
Dan
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Unlike car tires, which no matter the brand seem to stay close on tire dimensions, MC tires vary widely on OD & width depending what style tire it is. Just because they claim to be the same size many of them aren't the same size as competitors tires of same claimed dimension. For instance, Bridgestone BT45 tires run smaller than other brand tires of the same designated size.
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I just fitted an Avon 140/80/17 RoadRider on the rear of my V7iii Special.
I had to let the air out to wrestle it in but its quite a bit higher than the stock so hopefully the speedo will be a bit closer to reality
I originally asked for Michelin Pilot Activ but my tire guy said why would you put a 25 year old design on and wouldn't sell me one.
I also converted the spoked wheels to tubeless so hopefully I won't be pulling it off again for a long time.
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I originally asked for Michelin Pilot Activ but my tire guy said why would you put a 25 year old design on and wouldn't sell me one.
That's stupid:
* It's a 50 y/o chassis anyway.
* The Pilot Activ design might be old, but its modern rubber and works just fine.
* You're the customer.
But again, the Pilot Activ has done EVERYTHING I've asked of it, including a track day. I don't need more. I'd tell him to "bugger off".
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The 130 series tire on my 2013 V7 Special is a tight fit. I'm not sure a 140 series would fit without rubbing on the swingarm. Oh, and even the 130 is a bit of a bitch when it comes to reinstalling unless I also remove the bevel drive.
Peter Y.
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As a matter of interest, the special Pirellis made for the V7 endurance racers are, I believe, a 140. John at Motociclo (local dealer) reports that they fit on, no problem. Interesting tread pattern, but not cheap.
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I don't know what to think?
Sport Demons on v9 seem ok, no complaints, only 900 miles so far. I suspect from what I'm reading they will be lucky to get 5K.
Bias vs Radial? That's where you guys have me all over a barrel. SB don't come with radials, why? Is it all about cost? If radials really were that much better, wouldn't it have made sense for Guzzi to put them on the Racer? They already charge a premium for that model, why not put radials on to highlight its sporting characteristics if it only ads $50?
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The 130 series tire on my 2013 V7 Special is a tight fit. I'm not sure a 140 series would fit without rubbing on the swingarm. Oh, and even the 130 is a bit of a bitch when it comes to reinstalling unless I also remove the bevel drive.
Peter Y.
It is close for sure, barely slide a credit card through the gap the right side, lots of room on the left of course
It would be easy enough to shim it to the left 1mm or so but I don't believe it will rub, i'll keep an eye on it.
That's stupid:
* It's a 50 y/o chassis anyway.
* The Pilot Activ design might be old, but its modern rubber and works just fine.
* You're the customer.
But again, the Pilot Activ has done EVERYTHING I've asked of it, including a track day. I don't need more. I'd tell him to "bugger off".
True, I am the customer, the customer is always right eh!
Problem is I have a long term relationship with this guy, he has treated me very well on several occasions.
He did pay attention when I told him about the speedo error and found me a tire with a higher profile, a good inch taller than the Pirelli
He's a multi brand shop, doesn't have a dealership but he does ride a Guzzi as his personal bike so he can't be all bad.
Anyway i'm pleased with the Avon so far.
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As long as you're happy. :thumb:
Though I still think his reasoning was crap.
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https://tiresize.com/comparison/
This is a nice tool when comparing tire sizes . I've had it bookmarked for years . It needs a width larger than 100 , so use 101 instead.
The width of a 130/80 and a 130/90 are the same
The compare boxes is what your looking for . Speedometer correction data is on there too!
................... ................... ................... ..............
The 130/90-17 AM26 AVON lasted almost 10,000 miles ... I only got about 4,500 from the Sports Demon. I'm running a 712 Shinko now and its lasting better than the Demon did .
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That's stupid:
* The Pilot Activ design might be old, but its modern rubber and works just fine.
But again, the Pilot Activ has done EVERYTHING I've asked of it, including a track day. I don't need more. I'd tell him to "bugger off".
The rubber was good 20 year ago and is always good. But no the rubber of the Pilot Activ is the same as 20 years ago, no changes.
For a good rubber modern improvement and stay Bias, there is now the Metzeler Raodtec 01 for V7.
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The rubber was good 20 year ago and is always good. But no the rubber of the Pilot Activ is the same as 20 years ago, no changes.
We know for sure that Michelin has not changed anything about the way they make the compound for the Pilot Activ?
Ok, let's assume that is true. That's no longer considered modern rubber? I mean did something not change between say WWI or WWII and when the Pilot Activ was first made?
And let's assume something again, IF NOT, DOES IT MATTER? I mean crap, don't most companies both motorcycle and tire aim to build a quality product that is going to work well and bring you back to them again?
Sure something might be BETTER - just like I can find a lot faster bikes or bikes with better suspensions.
But if the tire works and does everything I want it to do, then does BETTER actually buy me anything?
I have no problem with Kiwi's tire guy saying something like "Why don't you consider this, it will stick more" or "I've really seen much better performance out of" but that's not the same as refusing to order what he asked for right?
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I think to say my tire guy refused to order we a tire I asked for is a bit strong, first of all he said he hasn't sold one in 4 years and offered the lower profile newer version of Michelin but listened when I raised the concern about speedometer error. The tire size comparator MMRanch posted is very good IMHO
I will keep you posted on how I find the Avon.
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I researched this a lot when I got tires for my G5, I think one of the tires sites out there, which I can't find anymore (maybe Dennis kirk) showed overall diameter for each tire, which did vary from brand to brand. I ended up going up one size for both front and rear (110/90 instead of 110/90 in front, and 120/90 instead of 110/90) in the Pirelli Sport Demon, and if I recall correctly they ran "smaller" than some other brands anyway. I mostly ride two-up and I wanted better load protection (hitting pot holes when riding 2-up) which was more important to me that going fast in twisties, which I don't do when I'm 2-up or hardly ever with my G5. I also like the look, and the handling works for me. I don't think the bike feels much different overall than what was on there before (which were still the old 3.5 and 4.2 measurement type tires)
Avon showed the overall diameter at that time, and so did Michelin. These are old screen shots I did, but I'd probably check their sites for new information. Rim width will come into play when it comes to the profile distortion if going wider
(https://i.ibb.co/6X9t5WG/Avon-Road-Rider-Chart.jpg) (https://ibb.co/6X9t5WG)
(https://i.ibb.co/ncBRsrN/Michelin-Pilot-Activ-Chart.jpg) (https://ibb.co/ncBRsrN)
Though as most say, probably best to stick with the original size. I just wanted to point this out that it also depends on the brand when it comes to a few mm. I think this is what Arizona Wayne was also saying.
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I think to say my tire guy refused to order we a tire I asked for is a bit strong, first of all he said he hasn't sold one in 4 years and offered the lower profile newer version of Michelin but listened when I raised the concern about speedometer error. The tire size comparator MMRanch posted is very good IMHO
I will keep you posted on how I find the Avon.
:thumb:
Fair enough.
Though for the record, I was just going on what you wrote:
I originally asked for Michelin Pilot Activ but my tire guy said why would you put a 25 year old design on and wouldn't sell me one.
:boozing:
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After further review Ive decided to go with the Scoprion Trail 2. Which means I wont have the option to upsize. Regardless i think the feedback received turned me against that plan.
Dan
Good choice! I've had them on my V7III for over 5,000 miles now, quite happy with them. Haven't had any cupping issues, the rear does wear quite a bit in the middle on dead straight Texas highways, but the thread depth means I'm looking at 8,000-10,000 miles out of a set. I found that running the front tire at 1.5 psi more than the rear (when cold) helps the handling as the pressures even out on the road (the rear pressure climbs more than the front when hot).
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I'm pleased to report the Avon 140/80/17 RoadRider on the rear of my V7iii Special bought the Speedo to within spec
I had my buddy ride at 100 klicks by GPS and the V7 followed suit within a couple of KPH
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I'm pleased to report the Avon 140/80/17 RoadRider on the rear of my V7iii Special bought the Speedo to within spec
If the change has brought the Speedo to within spec, there's every chance the odometer will now be inaccurate.
Just saying ......
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Thinking of increasing the tire size on my 2013 v7 special.
Searched around but havent found what i am looking for..
Front -
Stock is 100/90-18 thinking of going to 110/90
Rear -
Stock is 130/80-17 thinking of going to 140/80
Thinking of this change to fill out the front fender a bit and to even up the circumference front to back.
Clearance measurements of my Speed Deamons shows that I will be clear, however i am thinking of going to BT45 or Scorpion Trail 2.
Has anyone had experience with this size setup or have thoughts about it?
Thoughts on the Scoprion traill 2?
Cheers
Hi, i'm just wondering do you manage to fit 140/80 for the rear tyre?
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I watched a video a couple of days ago where the poster put a 140 on the rear. It just cleared the swing arm, getting it in was a bit of a squeeze. For the front a 110-80 is the right size you would want to use, the diameter is essentially the same as the stock 100-90. That's what I just did, I haven't been able to road test it yet so I don't know if I will have to re-calibrate or not.
kk
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I increased the size on my V7III Special
Avon RoadRider MkII 140 80 V17, this made the speedometer more accurate, it was over reading by ~10 percent before.
The Avon barely clears the drive shaft tunnel, just enough to slide a credit card between tire and tunnel
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In the video I posted, Carcano, it talks about his preferences for narrow tires. I remember a tech rep for Guzzi saying that Americans wanted wide tires. I would usually try to stuff in the widest tire that would fit and I made a jig to true up big block swingarms when I cut out a section and welded on a cover to clear a wider tire. I haven’t done that in decades, especially since the swing arms were changed with a double cardan joint.
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I watched a video a couple of days ago where the poster put a 140 on the rear. It just cleared the swing arm, getting it in was a bit of a squeeze. For the front a 110-80 is the right size you would want to use, the diameter is essentially the same as the stock 100-90. That's what I just did, I haven't been able to road test it yet so I don't know if I will have to re-calibrate or not.
kk
I did a short ride yesterday the tendency to follow grooves and seams is gone. My main goal was to get rid of that "feature" of the Sport Demons.
kk
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In theory, wider tires deteriorate from handling, as do width differences between the front and rear tire. Wider tires will, provided similar compound and construction, consume more fuel, make steering/change of direction heavier, make the bike less precise, reduce stability, increase unsprung mass and require more lean for any given cornering speed. Tires with varuing width will also force the front and rear wheel to follow different arcs.
Now, we all know that modern frames, suspension and tires can make a bike handle brilliantly with wide tires of different sizes. Still, there are good reasons why Moto3 bikes use very narrow tires; 100/70 front and 120/70 rear. Narrower than most street going 125cc sportbikes. There can be benefits of fitting street bikes with a little narrower tires than stock. I have done so on my V9 Roamer, and I did so on the VS1400 Intruder when I had that. I have also tried oversized tires on a few bikes, none to good effect. That goes for radials as well as bias ply tires.
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In theory, wider tires deteriorate from handling, as do width differences between the front and rear tire. Wider tires will, provided similar compound and construction, consume more fuel, make steering/change of direction heavier, make the bike less precise, reduce stability, increase unsprung mass and require more lean for any given cornering speed. Tires with varuing width will also force the front and rear wheel to follow different arcs.
Now, we all know that modern frames, suspension and tires can make a bike handle brilliantly with wide tires of different sizes. Still, there are good reasons why Moto3 bikes use very narrow tires; 100/70 front and 120/70 rear. Narrower than most street going 125cc sportbikes. There can be benefits of fitting street bikes with a little narrower tires than stock. I have done so on my V9 Roamer, and I did so on the VS1400 Intruder when I had that. I have also tried oversized tires on a few bikes, none to good effect. That goes for radials as well as bias ply tires.
Are you changing rims to the proper width rim for the tire mounted? Putting wider or narrower tires on the same rim is different than matching rim and tire. Wider than called for tends to round the profile and narrower than called for flattens the profile.
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Are you changing rims to the proper width rim for the tire mounted? Putting wider or narrower tires on the same rim is different than matching rim and tire. Wider than called for tends to round the profile and narrower than called for flattens the profile.
What you write is correct regarding how the rim affect the tire.
As an example of what I have done, the Kawasaki Z750 Zephyr came with a 120/70 front and a 150/70 rear tire stock, with a 3.00 front and 4.00 rear rim. These tires are oversize for the rims, and there have been a number of bikes over the years likewise fitted with too wide tires*. Anyway, I tried the same tire sizes on my son's CB400SF as that of the Zephyr, since they are permissible and since the bikes shared rim sizes, and because these tire sizes a noticeably cheaper than the stock - and ideal - 110/70 and 140/70. The result was a significant deterioration in handling in absolute every way.
Most Japanese bikes before 1983 came with rims too narrow for their tires. The optimum tires size for a typical 2.15in rear rim is 90/90, most Jap bikes came with 120/90, the upper permissible limit. For the 1.85 typical front rim width, 80/90 is optimum, but most bikes were fitted with 100/90. European bikes also often came with less than ideal tire sizes, but usually not as bad as the typical bike from Japan.