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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: redrider90 on April 28, 2017, 12:48:36 PM
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Nothing political about this one but it is sure embarrassing for the Russkies :embarrassed:. State of the art Russian spy ship hits a freighter in fog and sinks.
And the Russians blamed the freighter for the accident. :thumb: :grin: :popcorn:
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39734998
The Russian Black Sea Fleet said the Russian crew had followed all the rules of sailing and manoeuvring and it suggested the incident had been caused by the other ship, Russia's Interfax news agency reports.
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I guess their "State of the Art" spy ships don't have radar
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Maybe the spy ship got too close to what it was spying on. :laugh:
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As a mariner, I'm always sad to read about stupid collisions.
Apparently they remembered some of the rules, but not the three important ones: The #1 rule of boating is don't hit anything and sink your boat, regardless of what else is going on. The #2 rule is always go a speed that allows you to pull up and stop within half your sight distance. #3 is don't go faster than the speed at which you wish to collide. I'd say that skipper broke them all. He'll be a bilge rat in his next life.
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didn't deploy the fog shield?
(http://www.ridersoffshore.com/images/Visor-with-orange-Pinlock.jpg)
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How state of the art could it be? It was built 47 years ago!
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Some day, if you get the chance, read the hilarious tragedy of the Baltic fleet, which finally met its ruin at the Battle of Tsushima. Starts out with a brand new warship sliding down the ways in St Petersburg. No one thought to tie a line to it -- drifted slow across the channel until it fetched up on a mud bar.
Things went steadily down hill from there until Togo crossed the T on the whole bunch of them.
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How state of the art could it be? It was built 47 years ago!
The hull may be 47.
The radar ought to be new.
47 years ago there was no such thing as GPS.
Now you carry one in your pocket.
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This is "Karma" for the Russians for all the "Nyah Nyah" dancing and pointing they did when the captain of the battleship USS Missouri grounded it in the Chesapeake Bay in 1950.
If you read the record, it sounds like a cross between Capt. Queeg and Capt. Bligh was on the bridge when the Missouri was steaming in a task force exercise in the Bay. The navigator warned the captain that it was time to make a hard right turn back out into deep water, but the captain had misread the lighthouse and buoys and told him to hold course. Then the helmsman, seeing that the ship was about to go aground, said so to the captain, which is, of course, a mortal sin, the helmsman being an enlisted man whose job is to follow orders, not to navigate, and the captain ordered him to shut up and hold course as ordered.
The Missouri then powered into a gently sloping mud flat, and went half a mile up onto the flat before its momentum finally ran out. No damage, but it was high tide and it was well and truly STUCK.
The Russians laughed and laughed and put it in Pravda and sent rude semaphore signals to USN ships. They didn't stop using it as a "propaganda" tool, although it was perfectly true, for years .... !
Lannis
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Inside sources reveal they were in hot pursuit of Moose and Squirrel .
Dusty
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No matter what electronic/ navigation aids you have the nut on the steering wheel makes bad choices sometimes.
A few years back a ship coming into one of our harbors decides to take a short cut and strikes a charted reef & sinks.
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But Boris and Natasha never sank a spy ship while tracking Moose and Squirrel. They did however crash a lot. I miss Frostbite Falls.
Pop
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How state of the art could it be? It was built 47 years ago!
It was built as a research vessel and decades later retrofitted to a spy vessel. Our B 52 bombers have been in service even longer and have all be retrofitted.
What irony that the freighter was filled with 8000 sheep.
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What country owned the sheep ship?
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It was built as a research vessel and decades later retrofitted to a spy vessel. Our B 52 bombers have been in service even longer and have all be retrofitted.
What irony that the freighter was filled with 8000 sheep.
The Ruskies will be feeling a bit sheepish then ;-p
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Well it was sheep to go , I mean Togo.
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No matter what electronic/ navigation aids you have the nut on the steering wheel makes bad choices sometimes.
A few years back a ship coming into one of our harbors decides to take a short cut and strikes a charted reef & sinks.
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The Rena, yes. I doubt that skipper will get another job.
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Moose and Sqvirrel hiding among the sheep, I bet.
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The Rena, yes. I doubt that skipper will get another job.
He might get a job where the Italian cruise ship skipper is at. :shocked:
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The Rena, yes. I doubt that skipper will get another job.
Yeh he's probably driving a truck now.
Reminded me of the Russian cruise ship that sank in the Marlborough sounds - but we won't mention that [emoji41]
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(https://ewedit.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/tv-spies-bullwinkle-show-05.jpg?w=612)
sunk ya
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/HnBULq0XQWE/hqdefault.jpg)
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Then we have Capt Joe Dedmon who piloted a tug boat pulling several barges up the Arkansas who crashed into the I 40 bridge over the river causing a 580 ft section of the bridge to collapse . Quiet Sunday morning until cars started plunging into the river . Ugly scene , with the added strangeness of a two time felon pretending to be an Army Capt taking control of the situation , even FBI agents on the scene were following his lead :shocked:
Dusty
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Someone has to provide leadership. :shocked: When there are multiple agencies involved, it can be "paralysis by analysis".
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Then we have Capt Joe Dedmon who piloted a tug boat pulling several barges up the Arkansas who crashed into the I 40 bridge over the river causing a 580 ft section of the bridge to collapse . Quiet Sunday morning until cars started plunging into the river . Ugly scene , with the added strangeness of a two time felon pretending to be an Army Capt taking control of the situation , even FBI agents on the scene were following his lead :shocked:
Dusty
That's extraordinary Dusty! Did he do a good job? (and how was he caught?)
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The Rena, yes. I doubt that skipper will get another job.
Could also be the Mikhail Lermantov.
Although a Russian cruise ship I suspect it was the pilot at fault. There was alwayts the question as to why the captain backed off the ref so that it sank further away from the shore.
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Could also be the Mikhail Lermantov.
Although a Russian cruise ship I suspect it was the pilot at fault. There was alwayts the question as to why the captain backed off the ref so that it sank further away from the shore.
Shh Muzz, I said not to mention that because it was under control ? Of our pilot at the time .
[emoji41]
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That's extraordinary Dusty! Did he do a good job? (and how was he caught?)
Accounts of the fake Army Captain's job performance vary John , he didn't do any harm by any reckoning . It was only after a couple of days that someone checked his credentials .
Dusty
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I didn't see in that article anything about 8000 sheep - it only mentioned livestock. Lucky it didn't sink or they'd be sheepless in Istanbul.
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I didn't see in that article anything about 8000 sheep - it only mentioned livestock. Lucky it didn't sink or they'd be sheepless in Istanbul.
That's funny!
Will this be starring Meg Ryan and Tom Hanks as well? Wait, the Serta sleep sheep can play a role in the movie.
John Henry
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Freighter Full of Sheep Accidentally Sinks Russian Spy Ship
Maybe one of the sheep was at the helm ??
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It was Shorn....
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It was Shorn....
He was a bit of a dag I recall
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Freighter Full of Sheep Accidentally Sinks Russian Spy Ship
Maybe one of the sheep was at the helm ??
As Phil, (sheep number 1) sheepishly turned the wheel of the great freighter, he wondered "should I go port or starboard?" Just then, another large vessel appears out of the mist and wham!
About that same time, the captain of the Russian ship echos the sentiment from another great disaster: In the immortal words of the Captain of the Titanic: "Where is all the f***ing water coming from?"
John Henry
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As Phil, (sheep number 1) sheepishly turned the wheel of the great freighter, he wondered "should I go port or starboard?" Just then, another large vessel appears out of the mist and wham!
About that same time, the captain of the Russian ship echos the sentiment from another great disaster: In the immortal words of the Captain of the Titanic: "Where is all the f***ing water coming from?"
John Henry
Phil and Shorn were involved, the plot thickens those two were baaaa stards I recall. I bet they fleeced the real captain 👩✈️
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Then we have Capt Joe Dedmon who piloted a tug boat pulling several barges up the Arkansas who crashed into the I 40 bridge over the river causing a 580 ft section of the bridge to collapse . Quiet Sunday morning until cars started plunging into the river . Ugly scene , with the added strangeness of a two time felon pretending to be an Army Capt taking control of the situation , even FBI agents on the scene were following his lead :shocked:
Dusty
quite a tragic scene. 14 folks killed & 11 injured when they fell dozens of feet into the Arkansas River from the Highway bridge.
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I didn't see in that article anything about 8000 sheep - it only mentioned livestock. Lucky it didn't sink or they'd be sheepless in Istanbul.
http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/9753/freighter-full-of-sheep-accidentally-sinks-russian-spy-ship
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Freighter Full of Sheep Accidentally Sinks Russian Spy Ship
Maybe one of the sheep was at the helm ??
I don't think the sheep were at the helm I think the captain and crew were all taking care of the sheep if you know what I mean while the ship was on autopilot.
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Awwww. You're assuming the freighter was at fault. Me, I think someone mistook the sheep freighter for a shore leave destination and was trying to dock to it.
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I don't suppose anyone brought up the Russian love of Vodka as having any part of this?
It was the main culprit in the Exon Valdez fiasco.
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Awwww. You're assuming the freighter was at fault. Me, I think someone mistook the sheep freighter for a shore leave destination and was trying to dock to it.
Did you mean to write that as a "pun intended" RK. :drool:
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I don't suppose anyone brought up the Russian love of Vodka as having any part of this?
It was the main culprit in the Exon Valdez fiasco.
Ixnay.
Incompetent second mate (Greg Cousins) who was warned by his AB (who had a third mate's license) that he was on the wrong side of the light.
Hazelwood wasn't called, and he wasn't at fault, try as they might to pin it on him.
Interesting side note: After that fiasco, Exxon put an employee assistance program in place, offering help if any mariners would voluntarily come forward with any drug/alcohol problems. One chief engineer did, and Exxon promptly fired him. He's now retired very comfortably.
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I don't suppose anyone brought up the Russian love of Vodka as having any part of this?
It was the main culprit in the Exon Valdez fiasco.
No but someone mentioned port before
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Awwww. You're assuming the freighter was at fault. Me, I think someone mistook the sheep freighter for a shore leave destination and was trying to dock to it.
Ok enough of the sheep jokes - I just want to know who Rammed who [emoji13]
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Ok enough of the sheep jokes - I just want to know who Rammed who [emoji13]
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Dunno , heard it was a wooly situation .
Dusty
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Awwww. You're assuming the freighter was at fault. Me, I think someone mistook the sheep freighter for a shore leave destination and was trying to dock to it.
Old and in many versions, but I still think it's funny and apropos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ullOcNAdFUI
OTOH, if it made fun of the Army in the same fashion, I'd not be as amused. :grin:
Bill
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While it may be true that the incompetent mate was driving the ship, Hazelwoodwas the captain and was drunk when he turned over the con to a mate who was not qualified for that passage. I was on board the Exon Valdez as part of the investigation. there are two definite channels with more than a thousand yards of separation between the inbound and outbound lanes. The ship was out bound and crossed the centerline and continued 15 times the length of the ship out of the lanes before striking the rock. As a drunk captain he was responsible. He got off easy by virtue of his clever lawyers and the fact that Exon wanted to make the problem go away, not more publicity in court.
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I think its a lot of sheep dip.
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Did you mean to write that as a "pun intended" RK. :drool:
:lipsrsealed:
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I do marine accident investigations as part of my work. The analysis of accidents like this and applications of the USCG Navigation Rules is a fascinating exercise. Though seemingly simple and common sense, the rules are surprisingly thorough. There is a fair amount that needs to be considered when reviewing an accident and liability is rarely 100% on one side or the other.
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When I was a young New Orleanian (1964), a drunk tow-boat captain hit the Lake Ponchartrain Causeway Bridge one night. The barges completely took down a section of the bridge. Bear in mind that this bridge was very well lit and a drawbridge was only a mile or so North. The six victims were all the occupants of a Trailways bus (though there were survivors) that fell into the water. Oddly, it happened very near where an Eastern Airlines passenger jet crashed into the lake the year before...
http://www.nytimes.com/1964/06/17/6-die-in-lake-pontchartrain-as-bus-plunges-off-bridge-hit-by-barges.html?_r=0
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I do marine accident investigations as part of my work. The analysis of accidents like this and applications of the USCG Navigation Rules is a fascinating exercise. Though seemingly simple and common sense, the rules are surprisingly thorough. There is a fair amount that needs to be considered when reviewing an accident and liability is rarely 100% on one side or the other.
I would guess the law of the seas is that "little boats get out of the way of big boats"
Just a guess on my part.
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A couple of us were riding the ferry from Galveston over to the Bolivar Peninsula a few years ago . The ferry is motoring along at a good clip , probably 15 knots , and is a good sized hunk of steel . An ancient fishing trawler comes directly across the ferry's path , and my friend who has never been a boat any bigger than a small fishing boat starts yelling at the trawler to "Get out of the way you stupid boat" , (cleaned up a bit :laugh:) . We did come within 50 feet or so of mating with the trawler , which was entirely too close . The ferry pilot never let off the throttle , which would seem to have been prudent .
Dusty
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I would guess the law of the seas is that "little boats get out of the way of big boats"
Just a guess on my part.
Hahaha- We call this "the Tonnage Rule". Large commercial ships at speed can take miles to slow down or change course. It's generally prudent for you to figure out their heading and go anywhere else. All commercial ships should be in direct communication with each other.
Another new and very cool technology is "AIS" (automatic identification system). It's a feature of modern GPS systems. your vessel has its own ID and will appear on the screen of other ships. They will be able to see you and your course as well as a brief description of the ship (e.g. "big frickin freighter"). Similarly, you boat shows up on the other vessel's GPS chartplotter. When you cross reference AIS with radar, there's no mistaking what is out there.
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A couple of us were riding the ferry from Galveston over to the Bolivar Peninsula a few years ago . The ferry is motoring along at a good clip , probably 15 knots , and is a good sized hunk of steel . An ancient fishing trawler comes directly across the ferry's path , and my friend who has never been a boat any bigger than a small fishing boat starts yelling at the trawler to "Get out of the way you stupid boat" , (cleaned up a bit :laugh:) . We did come within 50 feet or so of mating with the trawler , which was entirely too close . The ferry pilot never let off the throttle , which would seem to have been prudent .
Dusty
If the fishing trawler had gear in the water, then she would have the right of way and the ferry would have to alter course. If it was a crossing situation and the trawler was approaching from the ferry's starboard (right) forward quarter (11:00-3:00), then the trawler would have been favored.
Technically speaking, there is no "tonnage rule". Big guys don't have the right of way over smaller boats just because they are bigger. However, any vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver due to her size and possible restrictions due to the waterway would have the right of way.
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Technically speaking, there is no "tonnage rule". Big guys don't have the right of way over smaller boats just because they are bigger.
It is quite possible to be "dead right." Motorcyclists know this pretty well.
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If the fishing trawler had gear in the water, then she would have the right of way and the ferry would have to alter course. If it was a crossing situation and the trawler was approaching from the ferry's starboard (right) forward quarter (11:00-3:00), then the trawler would have been favored.
Technically speaking, there is no "tonnage rule". Big guys don't have the right of way over smaller boats just because they are bigger. However, any vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver due to her size and possible restrictions due to the waterway would have the right of way.
Memory says the trawler had no gear in the water , it was coming from the ferry's starboard side however . It did seem odd that the ferry pilot never even let off . Felt like a case of both pilots having way to much confidence that nothing could go wrong .
Dusty
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Memory says the trawler had no gear in the water , it was coming from the ferry's starboard side however . It did seem odd that the ferry pilot never even let off . Felt like a case of both pilots having way to much confidence that nothing could go wrong .
Dusty
Ferry drivers can get the attitude that they are driving a known route and everyone else can f**k off. At the same time, smaller commercial fishing boats can cop an attitude with pleasure boats. This can be a real bad thing, as you start behaving according to assumptions and not the sound structure of the nav rules. As I think I mentioned, one of the most common errors is a lack of proper communication between vessels. Aside from obvious radio comms, there are lights/shapes as well as horn signals that let other boats know what you are doing.
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Memory says the trawler had no gear in the water , it was coming from the ferry's starboard side however . It did seem odd that the ferry pilot never even let off . Felt like a case of both pilots having way to much confidence that nothing could go wrong .
Dusty
They were probably doing the "jawing" for effect's sake. 50 ft separation is plenty of operating room for an experienced helmsman. What's fun is to have a bunch of 40 ft sloops sheeted in and heeled over approaching a breezy starting line all within a few feet of each other and all wanting the boat end! Lots of colorful language to be shared in those circumstances.
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They were probably doing the "jawing" for effect's sake. 50 ft separation is plenty of operating room for an experienced helmsman. What's fun is to have a bunch of 40 ft sloops sheeted in and heeled over approaching a breezy starting line all within a few feet of each other and all wanting the boat end! Lots of colorful language to be shared in those circumstances.
You might be misunderstanding the event Darren . The ferry was heading straight at the trawler and came within 50 ft before the trawler completely cleared its path .
Dusty
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You might be misunderstanding the event Darren . The ferry was heading straight at the trawler and came within 50 ft before the trawler completely cleared its path .
Dusty
I get it Dusty, and been in many Port/Starboard crossings where a bow clears a stern by less than a few feet.
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I note that in the ferry trawler incident, none of the people reporting it said anything about bridge to bridge communications. It is possible that both captains had agreed on who was going to do what.
I have been a conning officer on Coast Guard ships and bridge to bridge communication is all important when available.
In some harbors there is a vessel traffic system manned by Coast Guard personnel. This is a traffic system of rules that pertain to a particular area. They monitor radar screens and communicate with ships within their system. They have been effective in reducing actual accidental collisions for years but no system is perfect, and many times a captains' attitude cannot be predicted.
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I might be wrong but I believe one of those ships that haul coal hit the Chesapeake Bay Bridge. That's also why there is a new bridge going north into St. Petersburg FL.
Dean
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Apparently the bridge failed to yield right of way.
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I don't think the sheep were at the helm I think the captain and crew were all taking care of the sheep if you know what I mean while the ship was on autopilot.
[emoji12]I was going to say that their sheep to shore radio was probably not working but that would be silly.
Sorry guys couldn't resust
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I note that in the ferry trawler incident, none of the people reporting it said anything about bridge to bridge communications. It is possible that both captains had agreed on who was going to do what.
I have been a conning officer on Coast Guard ships and bridge to bridge communication is all important when available.
In some harbors there is a vessel traffic system manned by Coast Guard personnel. This is a traffic system of rules that pertain to a particular area. They monitor radar screens and communicate with ships within their system. They have been effective in reducing actual accidental collisions for years but no system is perfect, and many times a captains' attitude cannot be predicted.
Sounds like a close shave and no defensive driving practice being observed.
If the trawler suddenly lost power the ferry could / would have wiped him out??
As I said before it's the nut on the steering wheel factor.
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Sounds like a close shave and no defensive driving practice being observed.
If the trawler suddenly lost power the ferry could / would have wiped him out??
As I said before it's the nut on the steering wheel factor.
That was my fear , the trawler was an ancient vessel and I just knew the engine was miss a beat :shocked:
Dusty
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Accounts of the fake Army Captain's job performance vary John , he didn't do any harm by any reckoning . It was only after a couple of days that someone checked his credentials .
Dusty
FBI was taking direction from this fake guy - he fled to Canada, right Dusty?
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FBI was taking direction from this fake guy - he fled to Canada, right Dusty?
Yep , he had everyone fooled , and yes , he was apprehended in Canada . Our local press was all over this guy , funny thing is that he actually did some good . Not apologizing for the fake Army Capt's actions , the guy had some issues for sure . The entire situation was surreal , I had family travelling that area on the morning of the disaster , fortunately none were on I 40 . There was an acquaintance fishing just upstream from the bridge , he told us it took a minute to process what had just happened after the Eastbound roadway collapsed , his view was blocked by the Westbound lanes . Total chaos would be an understatement .
Dusty
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Three whole pages of comments, and no one has yet come up with the term "sheepwreck." What's going on?
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Tag you're it. :grin:
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Baaaaaaad. Really baaaaaaad jokes. Keep it up.
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:shocked: :shocked: :shocked:
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I would guess to keep the boat in top sheep shape it would have a poop deck.
GliderJohn
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I would guess to keep the boat in top sheep shape it would have a poop deck.
GliderJohn
Sheep shape and Bristol fashion then .
Maybe the Russians were just trying to pull the wool over our eyes :rolleyes:
Dusty
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C'mon, sheeple! If you're buying this, you're being fleeced.
The truth is that the helmsman was counting sheep at the wheel and thought he was dreaming the whole thing. Happens all the time out there. That's why there has been no follow-up on the initial report . . . . move along . . . nothing to see here . . .just another tuesday in the straits.
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I would guess the law of the seas is that "little boats get out of the way of big boats"
Just a guess on my part.
Well, not actually what the law of the sea says for open waters, but a hell of a good idea.
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While not actually written, the"Law of gross tonnage" dictates that the grosser vessel does gross things to the lesser vessel often leaving only the grosser vessel to tell the tale.
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Well, not actually what the law of the sea says for open waters, but a hell of a good idea.
taken from the law of motorcycles: stay outta the way of cars and trucks.
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taken from the law of motorcycles: stay outta the way of cars and trucks.
From the Top 10 complaints heard at the Pearly Gates: I HAD THE RIGHT OF WAY!
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And I was dead right!
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"Mass kicks ass". :tongue:
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A little ditty we presented to my father-in-law.
Here lies the body of Johnny O'Day
Who died maintaining his right of way.
His way was right
His will was strong
But he's just as dead as if he was wrong.
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A little ditty we presented to my father-in-law.
Here lies the body of Johnny O'Day
Who died maintaining his right of way.
His way was right
His will was strong
But he's just as dead as if he was wrong.
Nice one Muzz
Reminds me of a little ditty I read on the wall of a public convenience when I was a kid.
Here I sit broken hearted,
Paid a penny and only farted.
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Nice one Muzz
Paid a penny
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The version I learned as a kid had a slightly "earthier" bit here, along the line of "pooping" Kev. :grin:
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The version I learned as a kid had a slightly "earthier" bit here, along the line of "pooping" Kev. :grin:
Funny how these little things lurk in the back of your mind aye. I remember jokes from my school days but recent stuff - nah.
Must be getting old ??
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Why is it I remember the 3rd grade jokes but not the good ones? And how about this one?
Little Johnny got his yocks
Put Feenamint in a Chiclets box.
Mom will smack him for his punning
Just as soon as she stops running.