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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: sdcr on May 10, 2017, 06:53:15 PM

Title: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: sdcr on May 10, 2017, 06:53:15 PM
  There is a 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura for sale near me. I have always had a soft spot for sporty spine frames. This one is pretty much stock, with the the special suspension bits. Stock but it does have some carbon fibre mufflers, M4s I think.

   What is there to look for on these bikes? This one has about 20K on the odometer. under $7000.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Guzzistajohn on May 10, 2017, 07:02:17 PM
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: pete roper on May 10, 2017, 07:07:43 PM
Single plate clutch flywheel is fracture prone, sometimes with catastrophic consequences. As supplied Ohlins suspension, especially the forks, are woefully and dangerously under-sprung.

Go visit V11lemans.com and read up.

Pete
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: twowings on May 10, 2017, 07:09:05 PM
That stuff CAN be fixed...a small price IMHO for such a gorgeous bike!
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Guzzistajohn on May 10, 2017, 07:14:20 PM
I had one, I guess the clutch was done before I had it <shrug> it's been sold 2X and still running like a banshee. The guy that has it now is really happy with it. It was #599. It was fun for a few years.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 10, 2017, 07:27:05 PM
Good, bad, and ugly?
About everything.
Single plate clutch.
Nothing.
 :smiley:
It's one of my "wind up" bikes.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: nobleswood on May 10, 2017, 07:40:06 PM
  There is a 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura for sale near me. I have always had a soft spot for sporty spine frames. This one is pretty much stock, with the the special suspension bits. Stock but it does have some carbon fibre mufflers, M4s I think.

   What is there to look for on these bikes? This one has about 20K on the odometer. under $7000.

Just asking; Where is 'near you ?'🤔
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: sdcr on May 10, 2017, 07:55:09 PM
Just outside of Philly.

So, with 20,000 miles on the clock, the clutch may have already have self destructed, and been replaced?
 

Just asking; Where is 'near you ?'🤔
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 10, 2017, 08:03:48 PM
Just outside of Philly.

So, with 20,000 miles on the clock, the clutch may have already have self destructed, and been replaced?

Possibly, but maybe not. Take a peek up her skirt  :cool: :smiley: through the timing plug. It's easy enough to see.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: sdcr on May 10, 2017, 08:36:03 PM
Chuck,

  That's a great idea. And I should see a double disc if it's been replaced, right?

   If it hasn't been replaced yet, could the single disc last 20,000 miles.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: fotoguzzi on May 10, 2017, 08:43:10 PM
Yes it could, my friend used up 2 in 70k

(https://photos.smugmug.com/Foto/i-65rrPW3/0/fc362edf/M/IMG_0930-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-65rrPW3/A)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Foto/i-dF4hrpJ/0/903a9289/M/IMG_0932-M.jpg) (https://fotoguzzi.smugmug.com/Foto/i-dF4hrpJ/A)

Not sure you can tell thru the timing hole tho.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 11, 2017, 07:08:04 AM
Quote
Not sure you can tell thru the timing hole tho.

Somewhere on here, there is a couple of pictures showing the difference.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: leafman60 on May 11, 2017, 08:05:54 AM
I logged over 20k miles on my Scura with no clutch problems.  Yes, I've seen the horror pics of the exploding flywheel but I also know of several other single-plate Guzzi bikes still going strong.

The aluminum flywheel and single-plate clutch was the best feature of the Scura for me. That was the best revving and best shifting motorcycle I've ever owned, including the newer Guzzis. It had such an easy clutch pull and great take-up.

If I obtained another Scura (sometimes I think about it), at most, I'd pull it apart to check things and see what I could do to reinforce the stock clutch configuration.

There are several threads about V11's and the Scura.  You may do a search for more info.

Other items to check - the shifter spring, the peeling engine paint, the too-soft Ohlins suspension.

Guzzi= necessity of sorting out and fixing problems

7000 is not a cheap price for one of those nowadays.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 11, 2017, 08:50:42 AM
All you'd ever want to know about V11s here:
http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?act=idx

If you *do* want to go with the single plate, it's possible with a Ram and your single plate input hub. Don't throw that away if you bin the single plate and go with the dual plate.. someone will want it.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Travlr on May 11, 2017, 08:58:12 AM
Mine is pretty well sorted.  Here's what I've done:

1. Had my suspension guy ride the bike and adjust the Ohlins.  Scura's are no longer sport bikes so a stiff suspension is not a requirement.  You can adjust the stock to "sport touring" without much effort.

2. Replaced the clutch with the Ram single plate package from MG Cycle.  It keeps the snick snick shifting and rev happy motor.  I didn't need to do this.  But I'll likely never sell the bike and had the opportunity.

3. Had my detail shop rub out all the paint work.  I did not want to repaint, but the stock paint was old.  A good clay bar and it looks like new.

4. Bought some Tekno bags for touring.  I've ridden it from Missouri to my home in Arizona.  And to many rallies. 

When I bought my Scura I had a Griso 8V in the garage.  After a "garage shootout" I sold the 8V and kept the Scura.  I call my Scura "The last of the hot rod Guzzi's."  IMHO it was the very best of the V11's.  Attached is a pic.

Mike
(http://thumb.ibb.co/epLVmQ/IMG_1653_2_small.jpg) (http://ibb.co/epLVmQ)

Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: fotoguzzi on May 11, 2017, 09:30:44 AM
Nice pic Mike!
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Groover on May 11, 2017, 09:56:53 AM
This thread here shows some photos on how to spot the dual vs single clutch.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=47717.0;nowap

Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: fotoguzzi on May 11, 2017, 11:17:03 AM
This thread here shows some photos on how to spot the dual vs single clutch.

http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=47717.0;nowap
thats deceiving because the single plate clutch in the EV is not the same as what's in a Scurra.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: sdcr on May 11, 2017, 11:37:55 AM

(http://thumb.ibb.co/nOnAmQ/image.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nOnAmQ)

bbcode image link (http://imgbb.com/)
Thanks for the details upon what to look for in a Scura. Bike condition looks great in pics, and I plan to see it this weekend.

Owner said he serviced the Ohlins last year.  He also is aware of potential clutch issue, as his Centauro clutch ( single plate) destroyed itself at around 10,000 miles. This Scura has the original clutch at 20,000 miles, and according the owner, is " working fine".

  Asking price is $6750. Sounds a little high, but then, these rarely come up for sale around here.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Groover on May 11, 2017, 11:38:16 AM
Did not know that. Sorry.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: PJPR01 on May 11, 2017, 12:06:35 PM
Sent you a PM Sdcr...you'll enjoy the Scura...it's a beauty of a bike!
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 11, 2017, 03:06:38 PM
Quote
as his Centauro clutch ( single plate) destroyed itself at around 10,000 miles

<scratching head>

As far as I know, the Centauro had the dual plate clutch.
As far as the price goes.. it is worth what someone is willing to pay, but it is quite high, IMHO, especially with the single plate clutch.
The V11S is the last of the *real* Guzzis though.. :) and the Scura is certainly a fine example.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: sdcr on May 11, 2017, 03:41:05 PM
Chuck,
 Yeah, this was the first I heard that Centauro is/was a single plate.

<scratching head>
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: leafman60 on May 11, 2017, 04:10:46 PM
<scratching head>

As far as I know, the Centauro had the dual plate clutch.
As far as the price goes.. it is worth what someone is willing to pay, but it is quite high, IMHO, especially with the single plate clutch.
The V11S is the last of the *real* Guzzis though.. :) and the Scura is certainly a fine example.

I guess someone could have retro-fitted a RAM single plate but the 8V motor bikes, Centauro/Daytona, came with a 2-plate clutch from the factory.

The 2-plate clutch (old and late models) have problems too occasionally.  You just don't see swarms of internet pics about them.  Perhaps his 2-plate clutch went bad. I've experienced that too.

 
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: pete roper on May 11, 2017, 05:40:39 PM
Nobody is suggesting that the twin plate clutch *Never* fails. The problem with the single plater is the flywheel part and the reason why it of such great concern is that it's disintegration can be catastrophic and very dangerous.

When the twin plate units fail it is generally the centres ripping out of the plates or the friction material delaminating from their backing. While annoying this generally results in the bike just failing to proceed.

With the single plate flywheel the tendency is for the wheel to shatter. There is a lot of energy tied up in a spinning flywheel and the point at which it is most likely to shatter is when it is most stresses which is when it is spinning fast!

Obviously it's all a matter of personal choice but the FIRST thing I did when I bought the bike that is now Chuck's is replace the single plater. The last thing I wanted was to be blasting across west Texas and suddenly have the flywheel come apart a few inches away from my wedding tackle!

To be honest I always felt the benefits of RAM units, even when fibre plates were still available, were over rated. I found using an Ergal flywheel with a lightened ring gear or simply the stock later steel wheel and a similarly lightened ring gear offered performance indistinguishable, (To me.) from the single plater.

Nowadays I believe you can only get the RAM units with a sintered bronze plate which has a lifespan of only hundreds of miles! I sure as eggs are eggs wouldn't be wanting to pull the gearbox every couple of thousand miles or clutch engagements!

YOMV

Pete
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Scud on May 11, 2017, 08:43:26 PM
I agree that the price seems on the high side.

Here's a thread with some current information about the RAM clutch. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19510

You should definitely factor the cost of a flywheel and clutch replacement into what you are willing to pay for the bike - for all the aforementioned reasons.

So... lots of GOOD about the Scura.

The clutch is the big BAD.

The engine paint is the UGLY. But that's the same as all the 2002 V11s.

I love my Scura. Documented my obsession, trials, and triumphs here:  http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18805&hl=  and this is what she looks like now:

(http://i1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/timscudder/Scura/Molto%20Scura.jpg) (http://s1128.photobucket.com/user/timscudder/media/Scura/Molto%20Scura.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Travlr on May 12, 2017, 09:23:04 AM
The last Scura on Ebay sold for around $7,000.  It was nice.  IMHO Scuras are the cream of the crop for V11's. 
I did spend some time getting mine right, but worth the effort.

Mike
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Travlr on May 12, 2017, 09:31:22 AM
Nice pic Mike!

Thank you! 

I took the pic in front of a graffiti wall because I thought it reflected the Scura's "Bad Boy" "Streetfighter" nature.

Mike
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: leafman60 on May 12, 2017, 10:08:00 AM
I miss mine....

(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc462/leafman60/Bike%20Pics/IMG_5203.jpg) (http://s1213.photobucket.com/user/leafman60/media/Bike%20Pics/IMG_5203.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: rocker59 on May 12, 2017, 10:25:42 AM
The last Scura on Ebay sold for around $7,000.  It was nice.  IMHO Scuras are the cream of the crop for V11's. 
I did spend some time getting mine right, but worth the effort.

Mike
Not the Coppa Italia and Nero Corsa ???
<scratching head>

As far as I know, the Centauro had the dual plate clutch.
As far as the price goes.. it is worth what someone is willing to pay, but it is quite high, IMHO, especially with the single plate clutch.
The V11S is the last of the *real* Guzzis though.. :) and the Scura is certainly a fine example.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: PJPR01 on May 12, 2017, 02:25:06 PM
Just one of the few shots I love of my Scura...every angle on these bikes is beautiful!


(http://thumb.ibb.co/kc73ak/IMG_2935.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kc73ak)
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Travlr on May 12, 2017, 04:20:26 PM
Not the Coppa Italia and Nero Corsa ???

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Nope, Scura.  Probably last fall.  First time I had seen one at $7K.  I figured it would go about $6500.
Probably had a couple of bidders who wanted it.

Late model Tonti LeMans are starting to pop.  V11's with Ohlins are next in line.

M
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: blackcat on May 12, 2017, 05:41:46 PM
I like the Scura, but I still think the Nero or Rosso were the best of that series.

(http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r317/blackkat-1/IMG_0145.jpg)
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 12, 2017, 06:55:38 PM
I had Rosie (Rosso Corsa) and the Mighty Scura at the same time. Both are *fine* machines, and just exude Guzziness.  :smiley: When push came to shove, the Scura stayed.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: LowRyter on May 12, 2017, 07:42:26 PM
I've not ridden the Ohlins models, but for beauty, this is the best of the bunch

(https://g4.img-dpreview.com/13D5E09C700C4FA6B10155D617354EBB.jpg)

But not so much for the transmission mount. 
 
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 12, 2017, 08:05:00 PM
Maybe we can get the Mighty Scura to the Ozarks and you can see what the Ohlins bikes are all about one of these days..
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: RANDM on May 13, 2017, 09:29:50 AM
What are the differences between the Scura and the Rosso/Nero
Chuck ?  : ) still learning.

Maurie.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: LowRyter on May 13, 2017, 09:54:59 AM
Maybe we can get the Mighty Scura to the Ozarks and you can see what the Ohlins bikes are all about one of these days..

I would do my best to keep up with superior equipment and riders- such as Scrua and Sportster riders. 

I can only hope those skilled riders would pull over at the next highway interchange so a straggler as myself can catch up. 

 :bow:
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Scud on May 13, 2017, 10:40:06 AM
Like Chuck, I've been riding a Scura and a Red LeMans back to back for a while. The LeMans has aftermarket Ohlins on the back, and stock suspension up front. The Rosso and Nero Corsas are the same as the LeMans, except for the full Ohlins treatment (shock, forks, and damper) and the fancy paint.

The 2003 LeMans, Rosso and Nero Corsas differ from the Scura in that the have internal fuel pumps with smooth tank-tops (Scura and other 2002 bikes have external pumps and a tank pad.) The later bikes also have better engine and driveline paint - the 2002's crinkle paint was recalled for the engine, but it still peels off the transmission and final drive.

The Scura has the "exciting" clutch/flywheel that has already been discussed. The Scura is also matte black, which I like and some (ahem LowRyter) believe looks like primer. Scura also has a bunch of carbon fiber to lighten the bike by probably a whole pound and make it faster... And then there is the psychological value-enhancer - the etched limited edition number on the top triple clamp. However, I think the Scura may have been the best-selling of all the V11s.

Here is a "sticky" thread on the V11 site that explains the model year differences with pics of each.

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5691

Objectively, any of the Ohlins-equipped bikes from 2003 and later are the best of the series. Subjectively, the Scura works for me despite (or perhaps because I've worked so to eliminate) her flaws.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: blackcat on May 13, 2017, 11:11:02 AM
Like Chuck, I've been riding a Scura and a Red LeMans back to back for a while. The LeMans has aftermarket Ohlins on the back, and stock suspension up front. The Rosso and Nero Corsas are the same as the LeMans, except for the full Ohlins treatment (shock, forks, and damper) and the fancy paint.

The 2003 LeMans, Rosso and Nero Corsas differ from the Scura in that the have internal fuel pumps with smooth tank-tops (Scura and other 2002 bikes have external pumps and a tank pad.) The later bikes also have better engine and driveline paint - the 2002's crinkle paint was recalled for the engine, but it still peels off the transmission and final drive.

The Scura has the "exciting" clutch/flywheel that has already been discussed. The Scura is also matte black, which I like and some (ahem LowRyter) believe looks like primer. Scura also has a bunch of carbon fiber to lighten the bike by probably a whole pound and make it faster... And then there is the psychological value-enhancer - the etched limited edition number on the top triple clamp. However, I think the Scura may have been the best-selling of all the V11s.

Here is a "sticky" thread on the V11 site that explains the model year differences with pics of each.

http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5691

Objectively, any of the Ohlins-equipped bikes from 2003 and later are the best of the series. Subjectively, the Scura works for me despite (or perhaps because I've worked so to eliminate) her flaws.

Not paint, poorly clear coated decals.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: LowRyter on May 13, 2017, 11:41:28 AM
Scud. it's better to look good than to run good.

(http://image.slidesharecdn.com/hormonereplacementhairlossbaumanaja4m2012-121224133438-phpapp01/95/hormone-replacement-and-hair-loss-baumanaj-a4m-2012-3-638.jpg?cb=1358231626)

(https://g3.img-dpreview.com/26C7C11E85C9440CBFC511FF60AE8E8B.jpg)
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 13, 2017, 07:04:57 PM
I would do my best to keep up with superior equipment and riders- such as Scrua and Sportster riders. 

I can only hope those skilled riders would pull over at the next highway interchange so a straggler as myself can catch up. 

 :bow:

Our cigarette would be down to a nubbin, and our coke almost gone before you got there.. :evil: :smiley:
I suppose you've seen that cartoon?
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Chuck in Indiana on May 13, 2017, 07:08:02 PM
What are the differences between the Scura and the Rosso/Nero
Chuck ?  : ) still learning.

Maurie.

Not much, Maurie. I prefer the fly screen on the Scura. I get helmet buffeting with the Rosso/Nero. I wouldn't kick any of them out of bed for eating crackers.. :smiley:
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: Lannis on May 14, 2017, 05:51:06 AM
Our cigarette would be down to a nubbin, and our coke almost gone before you got there.. :evil: :smiley:
I suppose you've seen that cartoon?

No, but now that you've mentioned it, I realize that I've probably actually DONE what the cartoon likely depicts!

Lannis
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: RANDM on May 14, 2017, 08:58:40 AM
Thanks Chuck/Scud.  :thumb:

Maurie.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: RANDM on May 14, 2017, 05:03:56 PM
Curious about the FD though - is that the same old B/Drive with the
shaft running out side the Swing Arm??

Maurie.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: LowRyter on May 14, 2017, 05:50:48 PM
Our cigarette would be down to a nubbin, and our coke almost gone before you got there.. :evil: :smiley:
I suppose you've seen that cartoon?

BTDT, had to bum one of Micheal D's Marlboros.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: swooshdave on May 15, 2017, 02:11:27 PM
I like the Scura, but I still think the Nero or Rosso were the best of that series.

Go Greenie or go home!
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: rocker59 on May 15, 2017, 03:00:27 PM
Curious about the FD though - is that the same old B/Drive with the
shaft running out side the Swing Arm??

Maurie.

Sport 1100 / Daytona 1000 ?  Yes.  Sort of.  Modified Tonti bevel box.

V11 Sport / V11 LeMans ?  No.  The bevel box is specific to these models.
Title: Re: 2002 Moto Guzzi Scura, the good, the bad and the ugly
Post by: RANDM on May 15, 2017, 05:11:56 PM
Sport 1100 / Daytona 1000 ?  Yes.  Sort of.  Modified Tonti bevel box.

V11 Sport / V11 LeMans ?  No.  The bevel box is specific to these models.

Thankyou 👍

Maurie.