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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: willowstreetguzziguy on June 24, 2017, 08:38:43 AM
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Saw this on another thread and got me thinking... as baby boomer riders get older (mid 60's and up), they have more money and time for riding. But their upper body strength can't or doesn't want to handle the 500 lb+ bikes that many manufacturers seem to be making.
So with their money and time they are seeking out sub 500 lb bikes and enjoying the lighter freedom that these bikes possess. I hope we'll see more and more manufacturers choosing to build and sell sophisticated / lighter bikes to this segment. How many older Guzzi riders are saying NO to the 1400 cc Guzzis and saying yes to the V7/9? If this is the trend and I think it is, this doesn't bod well for Harley. The bike makers who make an about face and recognize this segment will thrive. The ones that don't face an uphill battle.
Plus we live in the "Golden Used Bike" era with so many choices out there with used bikes, some riders may never buy a new bike again!
Granted with a passenger you need a bigger bike, but if you are traveling solo, you don't need a big and heavy bike! We are beginning to rethink what we really need and use.
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My reason for gravitating toward lighter motorcycles is not related to upper body strength, but because I've learned that I enjoy riding light motorcycles that handle well, rather than heavy ones that really don't provide any advantage other than a smooth ride. Motorcycles like the Yamaha FZ-07 that weighs under 400 lbs are most likely to be the ones I'll buy in the future.
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I don't think it is a new trend, more just a natural consequence of the aging process, i.e., the same thing has happened for every generation of riders as they get older.
Rich
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We had an exhaustive discussion of these issues recently. See
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=88923.0 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=88923.0)
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Count me in. I've been riding a V7 since I was a young man of 71, I'm turning 75 tomorrow, and I have no interest in anything heavier or faster (or even louder). :grin:
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I backed into a sweet little Harley 883 behind a rifle trade several years ago. For a passel of reasons to include but not limited to; size, sound, looks, reliability, ease of (nonexistent) maintenance.... It gets more miles and smiles than every other bike listed in my signature line - put together.
I'm just enjoying the hell out of small & simple.
Todd.
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I see a lot Harley and Gold Wing riders turning to trikes but those are 700+ # bikes to begin with. My 500# bike is enough for me.
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I've always enjoyed lighter bikes. It was the reason I chose the Calvin (which is very light in it's class) and more recently, a BMW R1200RS (I went to the dealer to check out the RT, but bought the RS due to lighter weight and the conventional forks). I turn 61 next month, but my reasons for a lighter bike have more to do with handling/braking and the tight quarters of my shop.
I started to have flexibility and back issues, so I began a very light calisthenics regime. 30 crunches, 18 20lb curls per arm, and 20 pushups every day. I also ride my bicycle about 40 miles a week. This has allowed me to maintain muscle mass, it strengthens my core, and enhances my flexibility. The entire calisthenics routine only takes minutes and it has helped me to take off a little excess weight. There's that word again..."weight." I guess motorbikes aren't the only things that perform better when they weigh less...
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I resemble this thread! :wink:
Bill
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True for me, I will most likely buy a Roamer this week or next. My Stelvio has been on consignment and I will sell the Breva.
Upper body strength with arthritis in the shoulders and dual knee replacement are limiting me greatly with everything I do these days.
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No stats to support this , but it seems we are seeing more medium size motorcycles on the road now than a few years back . Of course the definition of medium sized , or middle weight has changed , but I see fewer behemoths including liter sized sport bikes , and more rational motorbikes now than previously . It's not like the behemoths have disappeared , and the big boys are bigger than ever , but maybe their percentage of the market is shrinking .
Dusty
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(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic006/oldmanonabike_zpske6x8nrm.jpg)
Whatever works! :thumb:
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Granted with a passenger you need a bigger bike,
Not really. Crank up the preload and go with the AeroLario. <shrug>
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I think there's a lot to this idea. I put it down to wisdom rather than failing health, of course. :cool: Lighter bikes with great power/weight simply are better, but they are not as impressive. I'm definitely adding lightness to bikes these days.
- Pasta
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I'm 6 foot ,170 pounds , 70 years old.I was a construction worker with good strength.. I do exercise daily but I feel not quite as strong. ..I bought the 96 900 Ducati monster because it's about 430 pounds with fuel...My old 850 Guzzi feels top heavy in comparison. My friend's 1050 Triumph speed triple feels heavy and wide....I have no interest in the 600 plus pound two wheel Buicks... :grin:
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I like riding anything with 2 wheels and an engine. It's the moving them around that sometimes is problematic. :wink: I'd still like to get a Triumph Rocket III or a Cali 1400. A Boss Hoss is fun.
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False premise, those of us who have worked Construction all our lives and spent some time lifting know that it's more about leg strength and form.
Also, I don't know about the aging thing. When I was young I rode a Cafe'd 400, it wasn't until I was 60 that I bought a liter+ bike. I "share" a V50 with my youngest son but prefer to ride my Griso or V11 Lemans. and I have pushed the Griso, uphill because I "misread" the odometer
Actually I wasn't much stronger in my 20's & 30's I just had tremendous endurance to suffering. It wasn't until I was 40 and spent years in the gym that I was truly strong.
Now in my middle 60's after a recent heart attack I know I have to loose that "40 lb belly". My good news was months ago when my stress test showed that even at +50 lbs I only fell one "step" short of maxing out treadmill protocol. The Cardiologist said my heart was fine and I was just "Abbie".
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/92/ba/82/92ba82be4fc7eede29b2567bc01890c9.jpg)
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False premise, those of us who have worked Construction all our lives and spent some time lifting know that it's more about leg strength and form.
I was an electrician, not residential . We had to use hands and arms all the time for climbing , cutting and bending huge wire, hack sawing conduit , linemans' pliers and twisting screwdrivers ...But there was also shoving pushing and lifting....I still have a very strong hand grip, no clutch lever is too stiff :laugh:
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So now the thread has come down to how much strength we've kept or lost over the decades. As a skier, I'm still strong in the leg, but my upper body strength has declined and I don't have the wind I need for climbing and pushing. YMMV.
At 70, Sir John Falstaff claimed his arms were growing stronger. Evidence: when he was 20, he couldn't push his P***k down with both hands. And now he can.
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And now he can.
:grin: :grin: :thumb:
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I have always preferred smaller bikes. Have a V9 for town runs. But, I have reached the "Dickey Do" age... My stomach sticks out more than my dickey do.
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A couple years ago when I was determined to return to motorcycles,(in my mid-fifties). After many years with a Vespa 150 ET4 (a fantastic bike by the way) the heavier bikes seemed intimidating. So, I rented a Harley RK to 'test' myself. After a couple hours, confidence increased and I learned to manage its weight in parking lots and slow speed maneuvers. Not too long after that I test ride a V7 and fell immediately for its light weight and guzzi character. It was the right choice for me. However, my wife doesn't like to ride pillion on the V7 but enjoyed the RK. There may still be a Harley RK in my future. (The 1400 guzzi's are great bikes but are too 'fat' for my liking).
Ironically, my wife enjoyed riding pillion on the Vespa 🛵 (granted we were both a bit lighter then).
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I think it has a lot to do with the macho aspect. New riders tend to think big is best, and wouldn't want to be caught dead on no sissy bike. As an example, I had a GF just learning to ride and her first bike was a Honda Shadow. When that gave her sore shoulders after a couple months she traded it for an R1100RS. She couldn't have been taller than 5'5", but she learned to control it. She got a 1973 R60/5 about the same time and eventually that became one of her favorite bikes.
As guys get over the image thing, they realize the smaller bikes can do pretty much everything the bigger ones can, but with less effort and much more fun.
There's a lot of truth to the statement that it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast.
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The snobbery that goes along with bigger is better attitude is that there are a lot of fun rides on smaller machines. I rented a Scarabeo moped in Rome and had a great time using my experience/skill riding it in traffic for the day.
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There's a lot of truth to the statement that it's more fun to ride a slow bike fast.
Absolutely.
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My buddy Leo (82 years young) just bought another tall and not exactly light bike - a new Africa Twin. He also owns (and rides) a Super Tenere and Tiger 800. The lightest bike he has ('09 KLX250S) rarely gets ridden.
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Not me, I got a sidecar rig. If I can't walk anymore I'll put it on the LH side and make a chariot.
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Motorcycles like the Yamaha FZ-07 that weighs under 400 lbs are most likely to be the ones I'll buy in the future.
The local Yamaha dealer was offering demo rides on Yamaha bikes last weekend and I got to ride the FZ-07 amongst others. It was a really nice bike with lots of power and very flickable, but it kind of reminded me of why I like my Guzzi as I'm more about feeling the wind in my face and taking things in than going as fast as I can or leaning my bike over as much as I can.
I'm not near my sixties yet, but I like a lighter bike as it's easier to handle and I don't take many long trips, where I'd need the carrying capacity. When I back my bike into the garage, it's uphill and there's a couple cracks in the pavement, which add to the challenge, so a lighter bike is preferable.
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This is the reason I bought my BMW F800GT for long distance riding. I honestly would rather have a larger displacement bike for cross country duty, but no longer feel comfortable with heavier bikes. The diminished physical strength associated with my 68 years is compounded by my short stature.
Jon
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I think my next motorbike will be a Royal Enfield Himalaya. Why? Because I'm an old fart and Guzzi isn't making anything that interests me. After nearly 40 years that sucks!
Pete
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The local Yamaha dealer was offering demo rides on Yamaha bikes last weekend and I got to ride the FZ-07 amongst others. It was a really nice bike with lots of power and very flickable, but it kind of reminded me of why I like my Guzzi as I'm more about feeling the wind in my face and taking things in than going as fast as I can or leaning my bike over as much as I can.
Well, if I wanted to go fast, I'd be thinking about an FZ-09 or FZ-10. :grin: The FZ-07 only makes 67 rwhp, way less than a Griso. The biggest problem I have with the FZ-07 is its 3.7 gallon gas tank that by reports really holds more like 3.4 gallons.
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We had an exhaustive discussion of these issues recently. See
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=88923.0 (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=88923.0)
And the Revzilla Common Tread article I wrote from that had very long legs with lots of engagement too (250 comments and 4,600 likes on FB so far):
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/why-some-riders-are-downsizing-to-smaller-motorcycles
Which I really just think means it resonates with a lot of people for the reasons we discussed in that and this thread.
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Just out of curiosity, I compared the weight of my 1000S and CX to the typical small block. Downsizing for me would save about 20lbs and the loss of horsepower, so it doesn't quite make sense for me.
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Just out of curiosity, I compared the weight of my 1000S and CX to the typical small block. Downsizing for me would save about 20lbs and the loss of horsepower, so it doesn't quite make sense for me.
Really, what are the actual wet weights of the 1000S and CX? (Just curious).
EDIT - don't know the accuracy, but I'm already thinking maybe you're comparing DRY vs WET or the best number vs the worst number:
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/moto%20guzzi/moto_guzzi_1000s%2089.htm
1990 1000S - suggests Dry 475# and Wet#503#
https://www.bikez.com/motorcycles/moto_guzzi_1000_s_1991.php
1991 1000S - suggests 533# (doesn't say, but let's assume Wet).
http://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/model/moto%20guzzi/moto_guzzi%20cx100.htm
1979 CX 1000 - suggests - Dry 433# (that sounds pretty darn good).
http://www.motorcycleclassics.com/classic-italian-motorcycles/classic-moto-guzzi-motorcycles/moto-guzzi-le-mans-cx100-zmmz15mjzhur
1979-82 Lemans CX - suggests Wet 530#
I thinking that 79 CX number might be fabrication.
For comparison:
Between MCN and Motorcyclist online, Wet Weights:
V7 (1TB) - 450# (Stone) - Racer - 442#
V7 II - 454#
V7 III - 461#
Roamer - 463#
Bobber - 473#
V11 Sport - 524#
Griso 1100 - 543#
Griso 1200 - 548#
Breva 1100 - 562#
Black Eagle - 589#
Cal-Vin - 616#
Norge - 617#
So yeah, if the 1000S number is correct at 503# - vs say the Bobber at 473# you're only at 30#
But if 533# is correct, and say you're comparing it to a mki 1TB V7 Racer at 443# you're at 91#
And obviously if someone had anything late-model - Norge-Griso-B11 - there's 100# or more to be had if wanted.
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The CX owner's manual says 431 lbs dry and in my case the heavy stuff has been removed so it's probably net that amount with fluids give or take a few pounds. Hell, the stock wiring harness alone must weigh 30lbs. :wink:
The 1000S owner's manual says 474 lbs + fluids so the 503lbs is probably correct.
Of course I have never weighed either bike, but my seat of the pants back to back riding of a small block and either of the above bikes tells me they are fairly close in feel.
The weird thing about the weight difference between both of those bikes is the fact that they are basically the same bike. Same tank, same side panels, same frame except a slightly longer swing arm on the 1000S. Lighter fenders on the CX but no upper and lower fairing on the 1000S. The 1000S engine probably weighs more but that is a guess and it can't be by much. The cast wheels have to weigh more on the CX than the spokes on the 1000S.
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I got tagged by a welfare queen in a stolen car 22 years ago. Both legs crushed. Shoulders torn. Bike totaled. Add in my Navy career of getting my hands torn up as a steam plant mechanic and I am in rough shape. Grateful to still be here and riding a bit.
That's why I have a sidecar on my old Cali III and my two wheeler is a old Royal Enfield 500 Bullet. Lighter bikes are fun. The Bullet feel like a ten speed bike with a small steam engine attached. (About as fast too. ;-) )
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The CX owner's manual says 431 lbs dry and in my case the heavy stuff has been removed so it's probably net that amount with fluids give or take a few pounds. Hell, the stock wiring harness alone must weigh 30lbs. :wink:
The 1000S owner's manual says 474 lbs + fluids so the 503lbs is probably correct.
Of course I have never weighed either bike, but my seat of the pants back to back riding of a small block and either of the above bikes tells me they are fairly close in feel.
The weird thing about the weight difference between both of those bikes is the fact that they are basically the same bike. Same tank, same side panels, same frame except a slightly longer swing arm on the 1000S. Lighter fenders on the CX but no upper and lower fairing on the 1000S. The 1000S engine probably weighs more but that is a guess and it can't be by much. The cast wheels have to weigh more on the CX than the spokes on the 1000S.
:thumb:
Looking at the later model stuff that I owned the differences were interesting too.
Jackal @ ~572# wet felt LIGHTER than the taller center of gravity Breva 1100 @ ~562# wet.
Either way the V7 feels like a toy comparatively @ ~ 450# wet, and honestly at that point doesn't really feel any heavier than our Duc 696 @ ~ 408# wet.
The Jackal hides its weight with seat height/center of gravity but there's still a definite mass difference between it and the two smaller bikes.
The lighter weight combined with the narrowness and still relatively low seat height of both the V7 and Duc still make them both feel significantly lighter.
YMMV
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Take a ride on the scenic railway?
(http://i1299.photobucket.com/albums/ag77/Penderic/Penderic007/sidecar%20on%20train%20tracks_zpsmspejejf.jpg)
:boozing:
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The lighter weight combined with the narrowness and still relatively low seat height of both the V7 and Duc still make them both feel significantly lighter.
YMMV
A good friend of mine had the same Duc, and we would swap bikes(CX) on occasion. I never noticed much of a weight difference but his was a 03? My Norge and your Big Breva are definitely porker's compared to the small blocks and I'm on guard at slow speeds with the Norge.
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After reading this thread so far I am surprised at what is considered a light bike! I guess everything is relative.
I play hockey 4 times a week and consider myself pretty fit but I have just got tired of big bikes, and that includes a lot of the bikes described as light in this thread. I know some people like to cruise around but for me I like twisty roads or the race track. Over the years I have had a lot of bikes, big and small. I think the big bikes were more of an ego thing because eventually I came to realize that I could go through serious twisties way faster on my smaller bikes than my bigger ones. On track days I have had a Buell, a Moto Guzzi Le Mans 4, and an assortment of Honda 650 Hawks but the bike that I have gone the fastest on (excluding the straights) is my 1987 Honda 250 CBX. It only has about 22 horsepower and it now weighs around 200 pounds but I can get it around the track way faster than any of my bigger bikes. My new bike, a 2010 Kawasaki 250 Super Sherpa is pretty amazing. I wouldn't want to take it on a major trip, although some have taken this particular model on cross continent trips, but for trips around here it is great. It weighs 280 pounds wet and will cruise all day at 60 mph on pavement or gravel. I mention gravel, because around here they are the only roads without radar.
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Northern Bill, that's just about the same way I feel. After a pass on the Dragon with my DT100 that I set up just for that road, I rode back to the motel smiling, and talked to a friend in the parking lot. He's a guy who can drag an elbow if he decides to. When I told him how much fun I just had with the 100, he looked at me very seriously and said "Little bikes are the most fun."
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A good friend of mine had the same Duc, and we would swap bikes(CX) on occasion. I never noticed much of a weight difference but his was a 03? My Norge and your Big Breva are definitely porker's compared to the small blocks and I'm on guard at slow speeds with the Norge.
Hmmm, same Duc but 03, meaning one of the smaller Monsters?
Keep in mind there's some difference between the 696 and the rest of the monsters in that era. Shorter suspension puts it an inch lower. So I think it feels even lighter than a 796 (which it in fact is at 408# vs. 446#).
I forget if the 620 also had the lowered seat height, but I don't think it did, and it was 424# in 02, but 449# around 05ish.
The 750 was also about the same 425#.
But I've not ridden or even stood up a CX Lemans, so I really have no frame of reference and will have to take your word on it.
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Northern Bill, that's just about the same way I feel. After a pass on the Dragon with my DT100 that I set up just for that road, I rode back to the motel smiling, and talked to a friend in the parking lot. He's a guy who can drag an elbow if he decides to. When I told him how much fun I just had with the 100, he looked at me very seriously and said "Little bikes are the most fun."
I rode the Dragon a few years back on a Suzuki Sv650 (known to be a beginners bike!). I would have gladly traded you rides on the DT100. That bike was so overpowered for me on that road it was unbelievable. I know there are guys that can take much more powerful bikes down that road at fantastic speeds but they are super talented and are way beyond my riding ability. Or as my friend who is a road racer said to me at the time "they just have bigger balls"
I just came back from another ride on my Super Sherpa. I was looking for gravel roads but instead found some twisties I had never encountered before. On my street bikes they would have been a nightmare as the surface was horrible but on the Sherpa I just ploughed through the bumps and potholes without a care in the world. Mind you I was only going about 50mph but on my other bikes I would have been slowed to a crawl.
The other funny thing that is happening is that the slower speeds I am going at are starting to have a cumulative effect on me so when I do rev the bike out and get up to 65 and 70 I feel like I am flying. I remember the same thing on some of my old British bikes where I was going pretty slow but had the sensation of going much faster. Essentially I am getting the same buzz at slower speeds. At the opposite end of the spectrum, I read a review of the 2017 GSXR last night and the tester was saying that he had a feeling that the bike was just meandering down the straightaway when he looked at the speedo and saw an indicated 180mph!!!
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The other funny thing that is happening is that the slower speeds I am going at are starting to have a cumulative effect on me so when I do rev the bike out and get up to 65 and 70 I feel like I am flying.
Again, I agree. I've had the DT100 on the supermoto/go-kart track at VIR a few times. At the end of the back straight I might get it up to 45, but the track is so convoluted that you really feel like you're racing. I've crashed a couple times on that track too, and they've been nearly painless.
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I have been thinking about this lately. My story, went sport bikes and dirt bikes to more standard and touring. A 1200 Sport was my first really touring bike, hard bags and such, in over a decade. Then to a Stelvio, and then a GS and FJR (see the trend of bigger and heavier). Now my wife had a 750 Breva and a CB500X, which she liked both bikes but complained about trouble keeping up with the more powerful bikes of mine and our kids. So to remedy the situation we traded up for her to a FJ09. Not much more weight than the Honda, but much better suspension and loads more power.
After riding it a bit myself, just around town and commuting to work and such, I was thinking this could be a real nice machine when I decide the FJR is just too big and heavy for me to muscle around, the garage , parking lots, and twisties. She can go back to her CB500X. :evil:
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What is "bigger"? I began riding in 1955 when 350's (21 CI) were considered "middle" and 500's (30.5 CI) were "large" A 650 (40 CI) was the undisputed "big bike". My Stone II serves me well in all conditions; that is city or country, riding solo or with a passenger. What more does one need??
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For some, "there is no replacement for displacement." :tongue:
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I think for lots of people bigger equates to better. It takes experience to find out that's not always the case. I am finding my 800cc Triumph Tiger to be just about perfect for Washington state.
- P
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I did the usual progression to "bigger and better" ending with a Stelvio. Great bike, excellent touring machine. But I like to ride alone, and check out dirt roads. No way I could pick that up by myself. Traded it for a V7II - I am really happy with it.
But, also about the same time I bought a CSC RX Cyclone, a 250cc "adventure tourer". Two tours in Baja, 2000 miles each, all pavement, have proved that it is a great touring bike if you don't ride the freeways. Then I bought a CSC TT250, a dual sport; it's even lighter and more fun. I feel that I am cornering faster in the twisties than I ever have before.
Not only is it more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow, I feel that I can ride the "slow" bike faster in the corners.
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Not only is it more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow, I feel that I can ride the "slow" bike faster in the corners.
That was the thing that made me a believer in little bikes a few years ago. A friend offered to let me ride his Yamaha 100 on the Dragon. I was laughing in my helmet as I flew through the curves.
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Looking at this weight discussion from a different perspective -- leaving Duluth last Sunday morning on my '07 R1200R on the return trip from the MN Guzzi Rally in Grand Marais, I stopped in at the MN DOT weight scale just outside of town. There were no trucks in sight and I had just filled with fuel so it was a good time to get weighed. I find the operators are very friendly about allowing me to take advantage of their equipment.
The scale read 880#. At first glance that's a lot, but as I mentally tabulated what was included, it seemed about right. The bike was fully loaded for the 2100 mile round trip, full of fuel (4.7 Ga) and I was sitting on it.
I'm 200# in my riding equipment and I carry about 80# of gear for the long trips -- so the bike, full of fuel with the rear cases, top case, tank panniers, tank bag mounted but empty is about 600#. Probably about right. The bike was advertised at ~540# Wet but without the windshield, center stand, emergency fuel supply and all the above mentioned cases, plus their mounting hardware. I'm certain that in total they would add up to that extra 60#.
Interesting information in this discussion. Ride safe.
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Referring to the OP,this is not a "new trend". Back in the 1980's , MGNOC newsletters had submitted articles from older riders either moving on or considering moving on from their beloved Loops due to advancing age and thinking about / riding smaller , lighter bikes. Perhaps as we age and we are lucky to still be able to ride, it is just the natural progression of thing. Happy Fourth of July to all.
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Took a Friday ride on the V7 stone. Freeway for maybe 20 miles and about twice that on curvy back-country roads. The Interstate is not fun, more speed accompanied by more wind and noise... uncomfortable for me on the V7 (a road king would do nicely here). But the 'B' roads are marvelous on the V7. Plenty speed, lots of sweepers and hairpins to keep me interested... and the air is tasty, scenery is often breathtaking, and I can SLO's down to take it all in if I want to. Yeah, smaller bikes are for me.
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About half the Honda NT700 riders that I ran into bought them cause they were so much lighter than their old biikes (Connie, FJR, ST1300, HD, GW). Their knees and hips had too much trouble with the larger bikes. Over time a few migrated back to bigger bikes for the power and comfort at highway speeds.
I've always wanted lighter bikes, even when I was younger. So, for me it was not an age thing, simply a preference for the type of bike I liked to ride.
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There must be a pretty strong demand for smaller and lighter bikes. Look at the fact that BMW, Kawi, Honda, and Yamaha have all brought out 250-300cc ADV bikes in the last few years. These, at first glance, might look like they are aimed at beginners. I think the real market is for those of us who are down sizing. I know of at least 4 Stelvio owners who have bought 250cc ADV bikes (myself included). They are simple, fun to ride, and easy to move around. I can still go motorcycle camping with the 250, just cannot drag along the kitchen sink.
Peter Y.
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About half the Honda NT700 riders that I ran into bought them cause they were so much lighter than their old biikes (Connie, FJR, ST1300, HD, GW). Their knees and hips had too much trouble with the larger bikes. Over time a few migrated back to bigger bikes for the power and comfort at highway speeds.
I've always wanted lighter bikes, even when I was younger. So, for me it was not an age thing, simply a preference for the type of bike I liked to ride.
Compared to those bikes the Honda is light, but at 571 lbs. wet, it isn't that light.
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I think the real market is for those of us who are down sizing.
It may be more that a lot of countries make smaller motorcycles much easier and cheaper to register, and that developing countries don't have many people who can afford bigger ones.
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Most people know the best performance upgrades that don't cost anything are 1) Resetting the ecu behind the handlebars. 2) Losing weight being carried by the bike.
Pack less junk when touring and lose body weight. :tongue: Most here aren't the "Ride to eat. Eat to ride." crowd. :grin: :grin:
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For reference.
My '81 CX
Bub exhaust
hyd steering damper
radial tires
No side fairings
small glass mat bat
3 Qt oil
5 gal gas
All else stock
Weighed by me on good scales
489 #
Edit:
I do have after market clip ons and rear sets, which are slightly lighter, 2 lb?
Thanks for the data.
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I'm only 52. My Victory Vision got sold in February because I have two small hernias and a sore shoulder. Moving the bike around the shop and at watering holes would aggravate the hernias and shoulder. So I thought a lighter bike was needed. Test rode a new Multistrada 950. No way I would use that bike for touring. Seat too thin with no padding. Knees bent way too tight. The Ducati shop suggested I try a 2012 Multistrada. Or a 2013 Diavel. Not sure about Ducati reliability. So I looked at the Norge and Stelvio. The Norge felt too small overall while bending the knees too much. The Stelvio felt roomy and comfortable just sitting on it. I didn't care for the super lightweight feel of the Ducati's. It gives me a feel of "cheapness". Knowing the Guzzis' are heavier makes me feel better about using one for touring. My Victory bikes have been VERY reliable. That trait and experience is paramount considering my next purchase. So, having NO experience with either the 2012 MTS or the 2016 Stelvio NTX...is it safe to assume the Guzzi will be the more reliable bike?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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When the Honda 750 came out many guys riding British twins couldn't get rid of them fast enough to get a new Honda ... The Honda was smoother and a better build quality...It didn't matter that it weighed over 100 pounds more with a lot of weight up high...I rode one but didn't like the bulk...Then came the faster Kawasaki 900 and the rest of the over 500 pound inline 4's that dominated the market for so long...Big and heavy became the standard...
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I didn't care for the super lightweight feel of the Ducati's. It gives me a feel of "cheapness". Knowing the Guzzis' are heavier makes me feel better about using one for touring. My Victory bikes have been VERY reliable. That trait and experience is paramount considering my next purchase. So, having NO experience with either the 2012 MTS or the 2016 Stelvio NTX...is it safe to assume the Guzzi will be the more reliable bike?
Liter1000, welcome to WG.. and.. it sounds to me like you should head to the local Harley dealer..
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It all boils down to riding solo or 2-up.
As a solo rider, you can go as light in weight as you want. Staying in motels, just take a change of clothes and hit the laundromat every other day. Or take all your camping gear... whatever the bike can hold and how fast or slow you want to go. Choose whatever bike you want however light or heavy you want.
But when you're older and taking an older passenger it all changes. Older passengers generally they will require some comfort.... meaning caring much extra gear, backrest, comfortable seat, wind protection, which most likely means a bike with greater weight. Many older riders and their passengers require all those comforts which generally requires a heavier, more expensive bike.But as they get up in years and get weaker, the ability to handle/move a heavier bike becomes much harder.... that's why many older riders opt for a trike or Can Am Spyder. IT WON'T FALL OVER!
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Liter1000, if you thought the Victory was heavy to move around the garage you will be unhappy with the Stelvio. It's a fantastic bike, wonderful to use for long distance touring or even shorter trips. OTOH, the Stelvio is still a very heavy bike when you think about picking it up when it takes a nap. As for reliability, you will have to deal with a couple known and easy to fix design flaws. After that the bike is probably the easiest to maintain of any modern bike. If you do get a Stelvio make sure it is a 2013 or newer...or has been rollerized. Guzzi has stopped making the Stelvio but there are a few left in dealer's showrooms. Also, a few nice used examples being offered...mine included.
Peter Y.
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I'm only 52. My Victory Vision got sold in February because I have two small hernias and a sore shoulder. Moving the bike around the shop and at watering holes would aggravate the hernias and shoulder. So I thought a lighter bike was needed. Test rode a new Multistrada 950. No way I would use that bike for touring. Seat too thin with no padding. Knees bent way too tight. The Ducati shop suggested I try a 2012 Multistrada. Or a 2013 Diavel. Not sure about Ducati reliability. So I looked at the Norge and Stelvio. The Norge felt too small overall while bending the knees too much. The Stelvio felt roomy and comfortable just sitting on it. I didn't care for the super lightweight feel of the Ducati's. It gives me a feel of "cheapness". Knowing the Guzzis' are heavier makes me feel better about using one for touring. My Victory bikes have been VERY reliable. That trait and experience is paramount considering my next purchase. So, having NO experience with either the 2012 MTS or the 2016 Stelvio NTX...is it safe to assume the Guzzi will be the more reliable bike?
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I hope you were not expecting an unbiased opinion about Guzzi's on a MG site.... :wink: Let's just say they are equal in reliability. Compare the cost of scheduled service and the Stelvio will cost you so much less than the Ducati. Stelvios are quite reliable and have that heavy duty feel you are after. Once you put some miles on one, nothing else will do. :azn:
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No Harley's for me. Used to work in a Harley dealership. Friends have them. No thanks. I love the Victory bikes too much. But 900lbs is too much. My 03 Vegas is fine @ 700lbs.
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Another factor in the "New Trend with Older Riders" is that the definition of "older" has shifted. There was a time when older riders were those in their '50's, who could still comfortably handle a heavy bike. Now, along with the general aging of the population, there are many riders in their '70's, like me, and a few in their '80's. We "senior" guys no longer feel so comfortable with large bikes, so we're gravitating toward lighter, but still roadworthy motorcycles.
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Another factor in the "New Trend with Older Riders" is that the definition of "older" has shifted. There was a time when older riders were those in their '50's, who could still comfortably handle a heavy bike. Now, along with the general aging of the population, there are many riders in their '70's, like me, and a few in their '80's. We "senior" guys no longer feel so comfortable with large bikes, so we're gravitating toward lighter, but still roadworthy motorcycles.
So what's the "lighter weight" choice for riders ~70+ who want to tour two-up?
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So what's the "lighter weight" choice for riders ~70+ who want to tour two-up?
At our age, our spouses are too wise to want to ride pillion.
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At our age, our spouses are too wise to want to ride pillion.
My wife hasn't ridden pillion with me since before we had kids. Today, she tells me she wants to try it out again...watch this space!
- Pasta
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Compared to those bikes the Honda is light, but at 571 lbs. wet, it isn't that light.
You are correct, but, lighter than the stuff they came from.
And lighter than most of the newer fully faired touring bikes. Beemer RT came close, but, they've gotten a bit porky now too. Norge was in the running but had too little dealer network for most of those guys.
These days I'd be tempted to get a 400 or 500cc bike and put a good windshield on it.
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At our age, our spouses are too wise to want to ride pillion.
Gail, at age 65, loves riding pillion. Of course, our combined weight is under 250 lb, so riding two-up on either of the 650s isn't a problem. We even had fun together on the 49cc Kymco. For a ride of more than an hour, she's more comfortable on the "big" Mille.
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My wife loves to ride on the back of my Mille... until it's actually time to do it, and then she's almost always too busy, or her back hurts, or she has a headache, etc..
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My wife loves to ride on the back of my Mille... until it's actually time to do it, and then she's almost always too busy, or her back hurts, or she has a headache, etc..
That old excuse, eh?
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Yeah, some excuses are multi-purpose. :grin:
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Dorcia and I were out on the Scura today.. and I was thinking it would be nice to have something a "little" more comfortable for her. We passed on going a few extra miles.. I didn't want to make it work for her.
Started thinking. Hmmm. What would it be? The Norge is out. Had one, too top heavy. Tried the Strada. She didn't like it. Had an SP1000.. she didn't like it either. <shrug>
The best might be a disc Eldo. (!) Ok brakes. Soft ride, decent if not stellar handling, carries it's weight low.
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The Honda was smoother and a better build quality...
I take issue with those two items. It was a good bike in many ways and came second in my choice of bikes. ( I was looking to buy a new one in early 1971) It was not I found as smooth as a British triple of the time by quite a large margin, nor I later found as smooth as a Brit twin if you went to the trouble of getting the twin dynamically balanced by someone that knew their apples. The build quality wasn't anywhere near as good. There were other issues too. I bought a BSA triple.
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Have a mate (of a "certain" size, and a "certain" weight - large) who bought a Cali to pillion the wife. Then bought himself the last model 1200 Sport 8V. The wife was so much more comfortable on the back of the Sport, the Cali was sold.
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I think it was around 2004 that Jenn tapped me on the shoulder and said "I think I would prefer to ride my own."
She was 24.
The last time she rode pillion, other than when say dropping off a bike somewhere or picking one up was when she was 6 months pregnant with Fi and decided her belly was interfering with both the gas tank on her Duc and her feeling of center of gravity.
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I take issue with those two items. It was a good bike in many ways and came second in my choice of bikes. ( I was looking to buy a new one in early 1971) It was not I found as smooth as a British triple of the time by quite a large margin, nor I later found as smooth as a Brit twin if you went to the trouble of getting the twin dynamically balanced by someone that knew their apples. The build quality wasn't anywhere near as good. There were other issues too. I bought a BSA triple.
You need not take issue with my opinions and I won't take issue with your opinions... :wink:
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HA HA, Old guys with suspenders......... ..Working my way down in size, at 73, just traded my 06 R1200GSA for a 2012 Triumph 800 Tiger. Much lighter and i have more confidence in riding it. Also picked up a Kawasaki W650 last year, so I'm loosing weight, errr ahh i mean my bikes are loosing weight. Having more fun also.
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Why can't you just get a young cute million rider who can muscle the bike around the garage for you.?
I mean one that is not a tranny specialist.
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I was thinking today...which is always dangerous. Several years ago I rented a GoldWing for an East-Coast tour, and I thought it was a great bike. It had this reverse capability that was powered by the starter motor and battery, and it was AWESOME for slow-speed farting about. I'm always surprised that it never caught on and got used on other bikes. Even much lighter bikes would benefit when you're padding about trying to go backwards to adjust your parking or whatever.
- P
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I rode the Dragon a few years back on a Suzuki Sv650 (known to be a beginners bike!). I would have gladly traded you rides on the DT100. That bike was so overpowered for me on that road it was unbelievable. I know there are guys that can take much more powerful bikes down that road at fantastic speeds but they are super talented and are way beyond my riding ability. Or as my friend who is a road racer said to me at the time "they just have bigger balls"
I just came back from another ride on my Super Sherpa. I was looking for gravel roads but instead found some twisties I had never encountered before. On my street bikes they would have been a nightmare as the surface was horrible but on the Sherpa I just ploughed through the bumps and potholes without a care in the world. Mind you I was only going about 50mph but on my other bikes I would have been slowed to a crawl.
The other funny thing that is happening is that the slower speeds I am going at are starting to have a cumulative effect on me so when I do rev the bike out and get up to 65 and 70 I feel like I am flying. I remember the same thing on some of my old British bikes where I was going pretty slow but had the sensation of going much faster. Essentially I am getting the same buzz at slower speeds. At the opposite end of the spectrum, I read a review of the 2017 GSXR last night and the tester was saying that he had a feeling that the bike was just meandering down the straightaway when he looked at the speedo and saw an indicated 180mph!!!
I've road the Dragon on many of my bikes I've owned here in Knoxville. Less power is better , but I had an SV 650 but there was some lash and the rear could get away, but the Vstrom 650 was absolutely amazing. I don't go up there much at all any more, there are nicer roads any lots of them around here.
But if you are going to ride the Dragon don't try and test your manhood up there, many have died or
Had to be stretchered up a 100 ft slope, and I think local rescue is tired of this shit. The Skyway is up in the Wilderness and rescue can take 2hrs or more to get there, so just enjoy the ride and slow down.
Now all this talk of lighter bikes is killing me, now I want a small bike, but I'd have to sell one of my
Precious Orange motorcycles
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gkWg0F/IMG_0321.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gkWg0F)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iMbELF/IMG_0900.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iMbELF)
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Saw this on another thread and got me thinking... as baby boomer riders get older (mid 60's and up), they have more money and time for riding. But their upper body strength can't or doesn't want to handle the 500 lb+ bikes that many manufacturers seem to be making.
So with their money and time they are seeking out sub 500 lb bikes and enjoying the lighter freedom that these bikes possess....
I've actually been pondering this for a while. My favorite ride continues to be my Cali 1400 Custom, but at 700 lbs I know I won't be able to ride it forever. I currently have three bikes that may ultimately take its place. Each would require a modest amount of work to become a lightweight tourer.
The V9 Roamer should be the heir apparent, but for a multitude of reasons I simply have not put enough miles on it to render an opinion. Power is adequate, outrageously great fuel mileage offsets the small tank, and, I like shaft drive. It would be pretty easy to C-Bows on it to carry luggage when necessary.
I've really enjoyed the two Harley Sportsters I've owned. Adequate power, belt drive (no chain maintenance) and a bewildering supply of aftermarket stuff. A Sporty with a 4.5 gallon tank may would do the trick, if Harley would just put it on a diet until it lost 50 lbs. At over 500 lbs it's heavier than I care for.
So it comes down to my Ducati 821 Monster. It ticks all of the boxes except one - I really hate doing drive chain maintenance. But given the options, this may be the winner. Time will tell.
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You need not take issue with my opinions and I won't take issue with your opinions... :wink:
I take issue with that opinion.