Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: willowstreetguzziguy on June 28, 2017, 08:55:30 PM
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Stopped by my local Guzzi dealer for service and met a customer of theirs with a 2007 1100 Breva. I talking to him, he mentioned that he always gets over 50 mpg but that he uses ethanol free gas and also Sunoco 94 octane. I have a '08 1200 Sport and I generally get 42-43 mpg and never come close to 50 mpg. Other than the gas, he hasn't changed anything. The engines are very similar as well as the bikes. Does ethanol free gas make that much of a difference in increased mpg?
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Very possibly. It is not only the ethanol but other things they put in the gas to reduce your milage too.
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I don't see any difference at all when I use E10 and E0. Maybe 1mpg at best and I keep close tabs on it. I wish it was more!
I do travel a few miles to get E0 as ethanol is not my preferred choice for motorcycles for all the usual stated reasons.
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On Saturday, I plan to fill er up with ethanol free gas. I will keep track of the milage (and performance) and report back with my findings.
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Fact, I get 4-5 miles (51mpg) per gallon more on nonethanol 93 oct gas as compared to ethanol 93 octane (46-47mpg). My '15 V7 is so much happier with the nonethanol. I found a station the has pure 93 oct for $2.85 to $2.93 for the last 3 months in Atmore, Al.
I get the same approximate percentage increase in my '96 PC800 and other 2 strokes.
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Good deal. I keep hoping I'll see what others report from E0 vs. E10.
So far,no go.
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About a 3 MPG increase is normal for me , although I rarely run any ethanol blend , so I don't have a lot of data .
Dusty
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Good deal. I keep hoping I'll see what others report from E0 vs. E10.
So far,no go.
Both my Stelvio and my Triumph turn in about 10% better mileage on ethanol-free than on E10.
At home, I always fill my bikes from a drum of ethanol-free, and I fill it consistently to the same level. I'll run the tank down as far as I dare, then fill up with E10 (the only thing available) on the road, and check my mileage on that and on the next tank, which is just about all E10.
In every case, both bikes, I get 4 to 5 more miles per gallon on pure gas. As far as I can tell, having ethanol in your tank is just like having water in your tank.
But we're being so GREEN!
Lannis
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on my '08 Norge I get 70-80 miles more range on e0 91 octane compared to E10 92 Octane. Just sayin..
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I'm sure non ethanol gas gives you better mpg, but at the same time it would be nice to know how fast/slow riders ride who claim X mpg and if it's uphill or downhill riding. :azn:
On my 750 Breva I get 50 mpg before ethanol was that prevalent. At the same time I got 55-60 mpg consistently on my CX100 riding faster on 91 octane. :huh:
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How nice for those of you who can BUY ethanol-free gas! The best I can do within 15 miles of home (SW PA) is 90 octane Marathon gas, which costs about $1 more per gallon than E10. Hardly worth it, even if it did provide better gas mileage. I ran a full tank of it through my 07 Road King and could not detect any difference in performance or gas mileage vs. 93 octane E10 from a Top Tier station. Unscientifically, it seemed to have about the same resistance to knock (could make bike ping when hot by hard acceleration from mid-rpm range).
Wonder how they produce 93 octane ethanol-free gas? How do they boost octane (legally, of course) without the ethanol? MTBE and MMT are both banned . . .
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Over the years I often noted increases in mileage when running on E0, but most times I was out of state on a trip and there were other ambient conditions that I'm sure contributed as well.
The whole combination of fuel, less stop-n-go, sometimes temps and altitudes made for some wild swings in mpg where say my B11 or Jackal that both normally got in the low 40's would spike sometimes as high as low 50's.
But typically I could see at least a couple mpg.
Similar to what I see here seasonally with summer formula fuels as compared with oxygenated winter formulas.
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From www.fueleconomy.gov
"Ethanol contains about one-third less energy than gasoline. So, vehicles will typically go 3% to 4% fewer miles per gallon on E10 and 4% to 5% fewer on E15 than on 100% gasoline."
If you REALLY want to get depressed, look at the maintenance intervals on vehicles that run E85.
Wish our government would stop this practice.
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What kind of a crazy world do we live in?
It used to be if you took a ride to Mexico you would always make sure you filled up state side to avoid the Mexican gas. Now you go across the border to get the good stuff. Same with soda pop too, real sugar - Mexico, high fructose corn syrup - America.
Now lets build a wall so we can keep all this "good" stuff to ourselves.
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I track mileage pretty close on my 2wheel and 4 wheel vehicles and I have never been able to detect any consistent difference. My only concern with ethanol is leaving it in small motor stuff over winter. When I have left it in the mower, etc. come spring they started fine most of the time but not always. The two stokes seemed most sensitive to old gas.
GliderJohn
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Around Rochester NY non ethanol 91 octane is readily available for 30-80 cents more a gallon than 87 E10...I use the 91 E-0 exclusively in my bikes unless I'm on a road trip...I don't ride for fuel mileage so I have no comparisons between different fuels....My three vehicles are two older Jeeps and a Chevy PU that may see a difference of one MPG between the different fuel blends..
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Nominal difference, for me, between E0 and E10.
I run 91 or 93 premium in all my bikes. I usually do a quick fuel mileage calculation at each fillup.
I can't tell a big enough difference to make me go out of the way to find E0, though I do buy it when it's a convenient option.
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I don't see much difference between 87 E10 and 91 EO riding around home. I see a greater difference when I travel indicating to me its more about the total blend. Mileage is about 10% better in Canada than in New York State. Its much better in the rocky mountains. My Goldwing gets 43-44 in New York and on two different trips out west gotten 52-55 mpg. Mileage drops back down going back east.
Pete
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I don't see much difference between 87 E10 and 91 EO riding around home. I see a greater difference when I travel indicating to me its more about the total blend. Mileage is about 10% better in Canada than in New York State. Its much better in the rocky mountains. My Goldwing gets 43-44 in New York and on two different trips out west gotten 52-55 mpg. Mileage drops back down going back east.
Pete
Altitude can make a huge difference.
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Altitude can make a huge difference.
Yes. My Guzzis return much better fuel economy at elevations above Denver.
My 38 mpg (at 0 to 3000 feet) V11 LeMans returned 50+ mpg when in Colorado (at 5000 to 14000 feet).
My 42 mpg Sport 1100 has returned 50 mpg on the same roads out there.
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Quality, Octane rating, seasonal mixes as well as areas fuels are formulated for makes a huge difference in what we get for mileage. Not to mention riding style and tuning of your particular engine. You have to compare apples to apples. This is why I mentioned the location, price, time frame and octane of the fuel I used for the performance I received from my bikes. I have always gotten better mileage on my old Ford van the further away from Florida I traveled, 18 mpg in Florida with increases to 22mpg in California and Wisconsin. Strange??
copied from previous forum input:
Fact, I get 4-5 miles (51mpg) per gallon more on nonethanol 93 oct gas as compared to ethanol 93 octane (46-47mpg). My '15 V7 is so much happier with the nonethanol. I found a station the has pure 93 oct for $2.85 to $2.93 for the last 3 months in Atmore, Al.
I get the same approximate percentage increase in my '96 PC800 and other 2 strokes.
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I think the position of the right wrist has the most influence.
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Me too, I get better mileage when I hang out by the Dragon, up in the mountains. I figure it's cause I am usually under 55 and in a gear that keeps my bike around the best torque and I guess maybe best fuel burn???
Does anyone else notice that?
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:Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu :violent1: :drool: I'm so confused!!!! I'm gonna go ride in the rain just so I have to spend 2 hours cleaning my V7!
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From Dofin;
I'm gonna go ride in the rain just so I have to spend 2 hours cleaning my V7!
Isn't riding in the rain how one cleans their bike? :grin:
GliderJohn
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How nice for those of you who can BUY ethanol-free gas! The best I can do within 15 miles of home (SW PA) is 90 octane Marathon gas, which costs about $1 more per gallon than E10. Hardly worth it, even if it did provide better gas mileage.
That's exactly how I buy my ethanol free gas. 10 miles from home, there's a Marathon station selling ethanol free 90 octane, so you CAN buy ethanol-free gas.
1) You get 10% better gas mileage with it, although that doesn't make up entirely for the $.80 gallon price difference.
2) I no longer clog up pilot jets and have to take carburetors apart if it's been 4 weeks since I rode, and with 4 bikes on the road, that's a possibility.
3) I no longer have to replace all the plastic fuel lines, carb floats, and internal lines on every single piece of my two-stroke equipment.
4) I no longer get rust in my steel fuel tanks, nor do I have to try to avoid rust by trying to "line" the inside of my tank with some sort of goop that never works and degrades under ethanol anyway.
So, from an overall "trouble" and "benefit" standpoint, the gas mileage improvement is just a bonus, not to mention an indictment of the whole ethanol-production-payola scam being run on us.
Lannis
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No noticeable difference on any of my bikes - all with carburetors though.
Never had clogged pilot jets on any of them. My brother's Aprilia Pegaso 650 Cube did however, but it had the tiniest idle jets I've ever seen.
I use ethanol compatible fuel hose and float needles, but no issues with floats or anything else. Never any issues with the L&G equipment, 2 stroke or 4. All of the 2 strokes are run on gas with Lawn-Boy oil which has stabilizer in it though.
No rust in any tanks. The one tank that I did seal (on my Gravely tractor, due to pinholes) five years ago with Caswell Epoxy Gas Tank Sealer is still the same as the same day I put it into service. No degradation of the liner whatsoever.
I must be doing something wrong... <shrug>
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Ive never gotten over 40mph on the B11 ever...
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I live in Chicagoland, where their never seems to be any E0. I always try to fill up with it whenever I get away from the area. I have found no measurable difference using E0 vs E10, as much as I hoped otherwise.
If I'm understanding the science of it, I don't see how anyone could get 10% better milage, it just doesn't make sense. Perhaps, 2-3%, but 10%, no way. Also, as I have noted before, all my bikes have run on 99% on e-10, and I have never had any kind of fuel related issue. That's just me, I'm not saying others haven't. Regardless, I will continue to buy E-0 whenever I can!
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If I'm understanding the science of it, I don't see how anyone could get 10% better milage, it just doesn't make sense. Perhaps, 2-3%, but 10%, no way. Also, as I have noted before, all my bikes have run on 99% on e-10, and I have never had any kind of fuel related issue. That's just me, I'm not saying others haven't. Regardless, I will continue to buy E-0 whenever I can!
Ah, two biggest vehicle story exaggerations, how fast does it go and the fuel mileage... :grin:
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Wonder how they produce 93 octane ethanol-free gas? How do they boost octane (legally, of course) without the ethanol? MTBE and MMT are both banned . . .
Those chemicals are oxygenators. Ethanol is also used as an oxygenator, not as an octane booster. The bonus is alongg with adding oxygen to the mix it does slow the burn so octane is given a slight boost. Less of the octane improvers need to be added.
How do they make E0 93 octane? By adding more of the chemicals that are used to make any octane gasoline.
Gasoline without octane inmprovers are fairly low as far as anti knock properties go. These chemicals are added until they get the desired octane rating.
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Wonder how they produce 93 octane ethanol-free gas? How do they boost octane (legally, of course) without the ethanol? MTBE and MMT are both banned . . .
Those chemicals are oxygenators. Ethanol is also used as an oxygenator, not as an octane booster. The bonus is alongg with adding oxygen to the mix it does slow the burn so octane is given a slight boost. Less of the octane improvers need to be added.
How do they make E0 93 octane? By adding more of the chemicals that are used to make any octane gasoline.
Gasoline without octane inmprovers are fairly low as far as anti knock properties go. These chemicals are added until they get the desired octane rating.
It's a misconception to think that slower burning fuels have a higher octane or that higher octane fuels burn slower... It can be true with pump gas in some cases and with alcohol in general....But resistance to detonation has to do with preventing the end gases from spontaneous igniting before the main charge has burned.In fact the faster the burn, the less time there for detonation to occur..... Tetraethyl lead used to be the additive...I have no idea what's used know....
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Does ethanol free gas make that much of a difference in increased mpg?
My 16 Griso gets better mileage and definitely runs much better on Ethanol free fuel. So much so that I now keep 20 gallons in the garage in one of those portable fuel caddy's.
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I don't know about the exact MPG difference I get between the 91(10% ethanol) and 94(ethanol free). I am up in Canada
But initially when I was riding with 91, I get about 330~340KM Per tank (roughly 20L used)
Once I started using 94, I can push up to almost 370KM with roughly the same 20L used.
Granted, this was measured when I was still breaking in my V7...currently has 4050 KM on the clock only.
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I have a station close to my house which I use when I'm near home so when I leave on a trip I always start out with a tank of pure gasoline without the corn. That being said, I have not noted a sufficient difference in fuel mileage the second third or fourth tank. My findings is there is not enough difference for me to run out of gas attempting find the pure stuff. That being said I detest the fact that it cost twice as much to produce a gallon of fuel with the corn juice oppose to producing gasoline without the syrup.
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No measurable difference here too between E0 and E10. The science tells us that ethanol has 70% of the energy of gasoline by volume, thus E10 should have 97% of the energy of E0. In the Yamaha Super Tenere with sidecar I ride the most, that's a difference of 1 MPG... Too small a difference to measure with our crude methods.
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Ive never gotten over 40mph on the B11 ever...
Maybe a spark plug wire fell off. :laugh:
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I usually get between 38-43 mpg on my B11. Around town closer to 38.
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The resistance to detonation (explosion) is determined by the octane rating.
You dont want the fuel to detonate, you want it to burn. A slower burning fuel has a higher resistace to detonate. Therefore it can be compressed more extracting more power.
You want the burn to be quick yet controlled. If it explodes you get that nasty knock, or pinging (pinking) sound.
A detonation expert in explosives doesnt burn the charges he detonates-explodes them.
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Ethanol contains about one-third less energy than gasoline.
So, vehicles will typically go 3% to 4% fewer miles per gallon on E10 and 4% to 5% fewer on E15 than on 100% gasoline.
Try filling the tank up the same way, same level each time and calculate MPG rather than trust the dash calculation.
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Ethanol contains about one-third less energy than gasoline.
So, vehicles will typically go 3% to 4% fewer miles per gallon on E10 and 4% to 5% fewer on E15 than on 100% gasoline.
Try filling the tank up the same way, same level each time and calculate MPG rather than trust the dash calculation.
Always do it that way, never trust the dash meter.
I suspect that regardless of how much energy the organic chemistry calculation says is available in ethanol, that it may not actually burn that way in your motor, which was designed to burn gasoline unless it's a very late model. My results aren't in the statistical error band ... they translate into 20 extra miles per tank in the Stelvio .....
Lannis
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The one time I kept track of miles and gas to fill on my 1200 sport it got in the low 40's. That was on a day ride doing 50 - 70 most of the time. I am easy on the right wrist as it goes plenty fast for me without hitting redline. I always use ethanol free just because it is available and not that expensive. I don't worry about MPG as I always get about 200 miles with that big tank.
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The resistance to detonation (explosion) is determined by the octane rating.
You dont want the fuel to detonate, you want it to burn. A slower burning fuel has a higher resistace to detonate. Therefore it can be compressed more extracting more power.
You want the burn to be quick yet controlled. If it explodes you get that nasty knock, or pinging (pinking) sound.
A detonation expert in explosives doesnt burn the charges he detonates-explodes them.
I believe we had this discussion in the recent past....? The racing fuel I use is 108 octane and according to VP fuel, it burns faster than pump gas...faster burn means less time for detonation to occur...As I said previously, detonation you hear as "pinging" is the uncontrolled detonation of end gases, not the main charge...There's excellent explanations of this stuff on Sunoco and other oil company websites.
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My '72 Eldorado gets mid 40's burning E10 87octane at 75mph on the highway.
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I suspect that regardless of how much energy the organic chemistry calculation says is available in ethanol, that it may not actually burn that way in your motor, which was designed to burn gasoline unless it's a very late model. My results aren't in the statistical error band ... they translate into 20 extra miles per tank in the Stelvio .....
There could be other things at work- like the O2 sensor being fooled that the mixture is too lean and adding more with Ethanol which would lower your MPG. The properties of Ethanol under higher pressure fuel injection could also be at play.
A lot of variables that I am sure have not been investigated in crude injections systems (like bikes).
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There could be other things at work- like the O2 sensor being fooled that the mixture is too lean and adding more with Ethanol which would lower your MPG. The properties of Ethanol under higher pressure fuel injection could also be at play.
A lot of variables that I am sure have not been investigated in crude injections systems (like bikes).
Yes...But electronic engine management on cars are more complex than bikes from what I understand... The car system is able to adjust fuel trims over a fairly wide range to maintain a certain A/F ratios....Bikes without three way catalytic convertors can run leaner mixtures than cars and may lack the adaptability of auto systems... And the stories here of poor factory fuel mapping on some Guzzi's might be a indication of less sophisticated systems ????
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I have a station three miles from my house that sells E0 premium (that's 91 octane in Colorado). I record mileage and gallons. Typical fill-up is 3.5 to 4 gallons; that's about two-thirds of a tank on my V7II. When traveling I use tier one premium.
My fuel mileage ranges from 48 to 54, with some outliers. But I did not find any patterns; my riding varies from local to long distance, with full camping gear to almost naked, flat lands to mountains.
However, driving in the mountains gives better fuel mileage than on the flats, regardless of vehicle - even my truck. Climbing a hill, mileage drops off. Going down hill, fuel consumption is less, so much less than average fuel mileage is better. This has been confirmed when driving vehicles with current fuel consumption readouts.
I use E0 in all of my motorcycles whenever possible. I had problems with the fuel injectors on my BMW F800GS plugging up - attributed to the crud that forms when the ethanol gets together with water - which is inevitable. StarTron kept them clean after replacing the first set.
I support American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) in their efforts against E15.
I agree with Smarter Fuel Future and their efforts to eliminate the ethanol mandate.
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Hmm...detonation... explosion. A fast burn is good but you dont want an explosion. You want a controlled BURN.
A friend just had a 383 put in his 88 Silverado.
The thing hammered at idle and sounded like a bunch of hammers hitting the windshield at wfo.
I told him either back off the timing or run race gas. He assured me the mechanic said it was fine.
Two days later 3 pistons shat the bed due to detonation.
He was running 38� of timing.
New engine and less timing. Its fine.
We run either straight ethanol or P66 116 race gas in the race cars. As rich as you need to run the ethanol carb you get close to hydrolock. It sure washes the cylinders with fuel. And we run almost 15:1 compression.
But the octane controls the burn. It keeps the fuel rrom exploding. Burn is the key word.
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I've got the street sister (F800S) of your F800GS. 75k miles on mostly E20 and E30, injectors have never been touched...
I have a station three miles from my house that sells E0 premium (that's 91 octane in Colorado). I record mileage and gallons. Typical fill-up is 3.5 to 4 gallons; that's about two-thirds of a tank on my V7II. When traveling I use tier one premium.
My fuel mileage ranges from 48 to 54, with some outliers. But I did not find any patterns; my riding varies from local to long distance, with full camping gear to almost naked, flat lands to mountains.
However, driving in the mountains gives better fuel mileage than on the flats, regardless of vehicle - even my truck. Climbing a hill, mileage drops off. Going down hill, fuel consumption is less, so much less than average fuel mileage is better. This has been confirmed when driving vehicles with current fuel consumption readouts.
I use E0 in all of my motorcycles whenever possible. I had problems with the fuel injectors on my BMW F800GS plugging up - attributed to the crud that forms when the ethanol gets together with water - which is inevitable. StarTron kept them clean after replacing the first set.
I support American Motorcyclist Association (AMA) in their efforts against E15.
I agree with Smarter Fuel Future and their efforts to eliminate the ethanol mandate.
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However, driving in the mountains gives better fuel mileage than on the flats, regardless of vehicle - even my truck. Climbing a hill, mileage drops off. Going down hill, fuel consumption is less, so much less than average fuel mileage is better. This has been confirmed when driving vehicles with current fuel consumption readouts.
Road bicycle time trialers can verify that. The best time-trial times come on slightly rolling roads, not flat ones ....
Lannis
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Hmm...detonation...explosion. A fast burn is good but you dont want an explosion. You want a controlled BURN.
A friend just had a 383 put in his 88 Silverado.
The thing hammered at idle and sounded like a bunch of hammers hitting the windshield at wfo.
I told him either back off the timing or run race gas. He assured me the mechanic said it was fine.
Two days later 3 pistons shat the bed due to detonation.
He was running 38� of timing.
New engine and less timing. Its fine.
We run either straight ethanol or P66 116 race gas in the race cars. As rich as you need to run the ethanol carb you get close to hydrolock. It sure washes the cylinders with fuel. And we run almost 15:1 compression.
But the octane controls the burn. It keeps the fuel rrom exploding. Burn is the key word.
Hmm...and engine pinging or detonating at idle? OK...
You find these links interesting...
http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue54/EngineBasics.html (http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue54/EngineBasics.html)
http://www.sunocoracefuels.com/tech-article/beyond-octane
Or this from a fuel chemist...A noteworthy feature of TEL is the weakness of its four C�Pb bonds. At the temperatures found in internal combustion engines, (CH3CH2)4Pb decomposes completely into lead and lead oxides as well as combustible, short-lived ethyl radicals. Lead and lead oxide scavenge radical intermediates in combustion reactions. Engine knock is caused by a cool flame, an oscillating low-temperature combustion reaction that occurs before the proper, hot ignition. Lead quenches the pyrolysed radicals and thus kills the radical chain reaction that would sustain a cool flame, preventing it from disturbing the smooth ignition of the hot flame front. Lead itself is the reactive antiknock agent, and TEL serves as a gasoline-soluble lead carrier.[9] When (CH3CH2)4Pb burns, it produces not only carbon dioxide and water, but also lead:
The quote points out that the cause of detonation is a secondary flame front that disturbs the smooth burning primary flame front...TEL (tetraethyl lead )in this case quenches the secondary flame front....
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I can run either with or without ethanol in my area. If there's a noticeable difference I ain't seen it. And I'm not clogging up anything. We kept track with the computer in the Grand Marquis and the difference was less than 1 mpg, and non ethanol is a lot more money.
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We'll not see the government support the removal of ethanol from gasoline in spite of the obvious negative effects on the consumer and the environment. The influence of the industries involved are very strong not to mention that the increased consumption it causes is, in effect, a tax increase on gas.
I cannot afford not to buy e10 for my cars but my Norge won't tolerate ethanol. It damages the tank. I also buy E0 for my other bikes and small engines.
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The price for E0 here is $4.38 vs $2.78 for premium E10. $9.60 MORE to fill my 6 gallon tank with E0. WOW!
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Maybe a spark plug wire fell off. :laugh:
I guess just a little drawback to living among tight twisty steep moto roads! :bike-037:
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The price for E0 here is $4.38 vs $2.78 for premium E10. $9.60 MORE to fill my 6 gallon tank with E0. WOW!
Staggering price difference and will induce people to use E10.
Campaign to get people to use E10 was almost a total failure in Australia and most service stations sell an E free 91.
Difference in price, where it is sold, is only 2 or 3 cents per litre which does not compensate for poorer mileage.
Factoid
E0 is 47,300 kjs per Kg
Ethanol is 29,670 kjs per kg (62.72% of E0)
so E10 is 45,437Kjs which is 96.06% of E0.
just sayin
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Based on my own experience with performance, cost, the minimal difference in fuel mileage and the fact that all of my bikes get anywhere from the high 30's to low 50's mileage using whatever gas is available, I have come to this conclusion regarding these types of petrol: "shrug"
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The VP leaded 108 octane gas I use in the race bikes costs about 80 bucks for a five gallon can...it has a wonderful aroma..The order of the exhaust is sweet....Once opened it has a limited lifespan for use in competition engines. So I pour what's left into the fuel tank of my street bike...96 Ducati 900M....The engine runs exactly the same, fuel mileage is the same but the inside of the exhaust outlet is a white color from the lead (TEL) ...
The Stochiometric ratio(air fuel mixture that is complete combustion) for the VP C12 race fuel is 14.87, non ethanol pump gas is 14.6 and E10 is 14.1.... So in a late model car/truck engine management that will adjust for the best mixture of the fuel being used, the E10 will gives a bit less fuel mileage.... But most bikes with injection( and cars older than mid 90's) and all carburetor bikes do not automatically adjust the fuel mixture...So in theory the older vehicles may not suffer a fuel mileage difference....reali ty might different of course because of the rider/drive influence..
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The VP leaded 108 octane gas I use in the race bikes costs about 80 bucks for a five gallon can...it has a wonderful aroma..The order of the exhaust is sweet....Once opened it has a limited lifespan for use in competition engines. So I pour what's left into the fuel tank of my street bike...96 Ducati 900M....The engine runs exactly the same, fuel mileage is the same but the inside of the exhaust outlet is a white color from the lead (TEL) ...
The Stochiometric ratio(air fuel mixture that is complete combustion) for the VP C12 race fuel is 14.87, non ethanol pump gas is 14.6 and E10 is 14.1.... So in a late model car/truck engine management that will adjust for the best mixture of the fuel being used, the E10 will gives a bit less fuel mileage.... But most bikes with injection( and cars older than mid 90's) and all carburetor bikes do not automatically adjust the fuel mixture...So in theory the older vehicles may not suffer a fuel mileage difference....reali ty might different of course because of the rider/drive influence..
Except you can't get around the physics.
If E10 has less energy per gallon you need to use more to do the same work as a gallon of E0 (assuming no efficiency of combustion is increased with the E10 or wasted energy with the E0).
So the adjustment would likely come at the throttle which would necessarily be opened more.
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We'll not see the government support the removal of ethanol from gasoline in spite of the obvious negative effects on the consumer and the environment. The influence of the industries involved are very strong not to mention that the increased consumption it causes is, in effect, a tax increase on gas.
I cannot afford not to buy e10 for my cars but my Norge won't tolerate ethanol. It damages the tank. I also buy E0 for my other bikes and small engines.
Well, quite. No use buying it for the newer cars, they're designed for it. But for the $.80/gallon difference, it's well worth (for me) burning it in the older bikes, the steel-tanked bikes, and the sometimes-idle farm and lawn equipment. All has very little to do with the gas mileage, everything to do with the effect it has on engine internals and tank surfaces that weren't designed for it.
Lannis
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Except you can't get around the physics.
If E10 has less energy per gallon you need to use more to do the same work as a gallon of E0 (assuming no efficiency of combustion is increased with the E10 or wasted energy with the E0).
So the adjustment would likely come at the throttle which would necessarily be opened more.
Cruising along at 60 mph with a powerful bike the throttle is barely cracked open...Hard to say if the 5 percent less energy per gallon of E10 as compared to non ethanol fuel would be noticeable...
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Cruising along at 60 mph with a powerful bike the throttle is barely cracked open...Hard to say if the 5 percent less energy per gallon of E10 as compared to non ethanol fuel would be noticeable...
Well assuming all other things being equal (efficiency etc.) then of course 5% would be noticeable if someone cared to look. Whether or not the individual felt it was SIGNIFICANT would be another matter. [emoji6]
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I have an ethanol ?....is it only in 87 octane or in all octane levels?
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I have an ethanol ?....is it only in 87 octane or in all octane levels?
It should tells you on the pump whether or not it may contain up to 10% (or 15% in some area, or so I have been told) ethanol in the fuel.
Up here in Canada, we have ethanol all the way up and including 91 Octane.
The only one I know does not contain Ethanol here are Chevron 94 and Shell 93 Premium.