Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: leafman60 on July 11, 2017, 04:14:02 PM
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Ducati Scrambler Series
Valve lash inspection interval = 7500 miles
Quoted cost = $650-700
That's about 10 cents per mile just for valve inspection cost.
I was horned up for one of the new Desert Sled Scramblers but that gets me out of the mood!
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Makes that Triumph Scrambler look all the better not to mention cobbling one's own project together.
Wouldn't be a Ducati but still...
Todd.
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That sounds about the same price here for any sort of Duc engine work...also Tax in BC Canada is 12%...which puts you @ roughly 800 bux US total...
This is one of the main reasons that put me off the Duc Scrambler despite their 0% finance option...
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My Multistrada 620 was $600 US every service interval, which included timing belts. No matter what I had done, the bill was always $600. Dealer told me to extend the intervals and was doing it every 20,000 km when it was totaled. Almost 70,000 km on the clock and never spent a penny on it other than wear items like tires, chains, a sprocket set, oil changes, a battery and headlight bulbs every 15,000km. Those valve adjustments were a bone of contention and fortunately I hadn't taken it in as it was due when wrecked, Was a great bike.
Cheers, Tim
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Gleaned from Strom Troopers:
The guys at Motorcycle World are great, working overtime lastnight to get my fork seals replaced so I had a chance to pick it up before the long weekend starts.
They also swapped out the brake pads since the old ones were covered in fork oil, and cleaned the whole front end up. It looks as close to new now as it can get.
3 hours labor, brake pads, fork seals, fork oil, and shop supplies.
They also did the 24k service which included
- 6 hours labor
- spark plugs
- 2 cylinder head gaskets
- 2 other cylinder head gaskets
- air filter
- oil and filter
- some other gasket
- cylinder head washer
- a bolt
- a screw
- swapped out two shims
- some brake fluid
- oil seal
- dust seal
- TBS
Total $1793.49
I guess it really does pay to do this kind of work myself, but at least I feel confident it has been done correctly, and I didn't die from a heart attack either, the wife may when the bill comes in.
Yeah Ducati really knows how to screw people :rolleyes:
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Gleaned from Strom Troopers:
The guys at Motorcycle World are great, working overtime lastnight to get my fork seals replaced so I had a chance to pick it up before the long weekend starts.
They also swapped out the brake pads since the old ones were covered in fork oil, and cleaned the whole front end up. It looks as close to new now as it can get.
3 hours labor, brake pads, fork seals, fork oil, and shop supplies.
They also did the 24k service which included
- 6 hours labor
- spark plugs
- 2 cylinder head gaskets
- 2 other cylinder head gaskets
- air filter
- oil and filter
- some other gasket
- cylinder head washer
- a bolt
- a screw
- swapped out two shims
- some brake fluid
- oil seal
- dust seal
- TBS
Total $1793.49
I guess it really does pay to do this kind of work myself, but at least I feel confident it has been done correctly, and I didn't die from a heart attack either, the wife may when the bill comes in.
Yeah Ducati really knows how to screw people :rolleyes:
If this is the same Motorcycle World as I know of, they are typically pretty fair with their pricing...
All I can say is I can probably by another motorcycle with those dollar than trying to fork up for the service...LOL...
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Lol, "some other gasket", "some break fluid". Almost $2000 is crazy in my book.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Having had two Ducs I'd say under warranty you really have no choice but to have the recommended service done by a dealer shop because DIY on it is likely to make Ducati balk should some warranty claim arise. I was fortunate to have bought from a very good Ducati dealer in Louisville KY, with fair pricing and genuinely expert service dept.
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Well, at the other end of the spectrum there's guys like me who think if only I had the option to have a Pete Roper or Harpers working on my Guzzi in SLC, Ut. I wouldn't bat an eye at those costs considering the brand I choose to own doesn't even have a dealership in my time zone.
Honda CB 1100 valve check at 12K. Current going rate is $600 and change.
Guzzi initial 600 mile check at now defunct Guzzi dealer. $505 (done at dealer to ensure no problems with warranty if something was to happen).
I know, still doesn't change the fact that Duc maint/service is expensive....
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Probably going to get myself flamed for saying but $1700 for 9 hours of labour at shop rate plus parts doesn't seem too off the mark. Shop rate here is $160... an hour. There's $1440 of the total. Print 'Ducati' on the gasket package and there's the rest.
Which is why I have learned to do all my own service ... with the help of this very excellent forum.
This spring, two wheels dropped off (with tire tires) for mounting cost me $145.00. A fully equipped shop took nearly an hour to change two tires? My Jeep costs me $120 for 4 tires that are still attached to the truck when I deliver it. Speak about feeling greased by the local shop.
I'm with Faulk: yes, I'd use the service of forum members if they were nearby; but they aren't.
Instead I support the forum, buy from forum member shops when I can, and even sent Guzzidiag money though at map was not available at the time (I consider it all about paying forward).
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Buy a used one, don't be all OCD on the friggin valve clearance check interval, ride the snot out of it. Every bike is a soon to be rusting bucket of bolts so don't treat it like it's worthy of anything other than use or abuse. It's not a child and you don't go to jail for neglecting valve clearance checks. By the time there's a problem with the valves, most here will be bored with it and on to the next. As Dave Grohl says, AND IT'S ON ON ON TO THE NEXT ONE ON ON ON TO THE NEXT. For me, I don't put that many miles on, I keep to the service intervals, and go to a dealer - but if the service costs bother you and you want a Duc, see advice above.
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Here's something that might help put the "high cost of service" in perspective.
Go to an unlimited class tractor pull, or pull up "tractor pull fail" YouTube videos.
Guys out for a weekend's racing will blow an Allison V-12 engine sky high and rip the transmission out from under it, or tear the blower right off of a 3000 HP diesel ...
Can you imagine towing that thing back home, unloading it in the shop, and saying "Ok, let's see, where should we start ... ?"
Probably make a Ducati valve adjustment seem pretty tame .... !
Lannis
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I owned and loved Ducati's back in the bevel-drive days (wish I still had my 900SS). I performed the valve inspections and adjustments then. I rarely had to do much to them but occasionally a new bucket or collet was needed. The biggest problem in those days was getting access to that rear cylinder, especially that intake valve on the back.
When I look at the ugly conglomeration of wiring and plumbing that is crammed in the engine bay of the modern duc's, I cringe at the thought of doing the valve work. I could do it but it is a definite negative for me.
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Also, for many people, the service requirements of a Ducati may not be an issue of practical concern. If it is a scratch-about off-road bike or a hooligan hot rod, most owners may not log very many miles in a year and those expensive recommended service intervals may come infrequently.
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Actually I'm happy about the service cost. Being Po' I do all the work myself so some day I'll be able to afford a low mileage Duc Multi with Ohlins as a long haul bike or a Duc 800 S2R for a City bike.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sKVQXpG5l3Y/UhyVnt9gSnI/AAAAAAAAxDc/Esn_0oZhfbY/s1600/Ducati+Monster+by+Kikishop+Customs+03.jpg)
I've always wanted a bike with an Avon fairing
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I do the belts and valves on my Ducati and its a right royal pain in the neck, especially if you need to buy a shim. The dealers will play dum and wont sell the shims. Buy em online instead. Like most things its not hard but just long winded. The worst bit of it is having a Guzzi sharing the garage its easy to get annoyed if you think it takes less than 15mins (inc waiting to brew up) to complete the same job on a Guzzi.
To make matters worse I have Fz750 needing a valve adjustment as well, with 20 underbucket shims, so thats a pain as well. Taking the bloody cams out and re-timing. Really!
Kev
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Buy a used one, don't be all OCD on the friggin valve clearance check interval, ride the snot out of it. Every bike is a soon to be rusting bucket of bolts so don't treat it like it's worthy of anything other than use or abuse. It's not a child and you don't go to jail for neglecting valve clearance checks. By the time there's a problem with the valves, most here will be bored with it and on to the next. As Dave Grohl says, AND IT'S ON ON ON TO THE NEXT ONE ON ON ON TO THE NEXT. For me, I don't put that many miles on, I keep to the service intervals, and go to a dealer - but if the service costs bother you and you want a Duc, see advice above.
If you "don't put that many miles on", what's the advice about "riding the snot out of it" referring to ? Also you suggest ignoring the valve clearance specs yet you advocate sticking to the service intervals ??? And if the service costs bother you and you still want a Duke, which part of the above advice should we take on board ? Am I in trouble for asking ?
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First off, the valve checks / shimming and belts is easy on a 2 valver. For less than the cost of your first service you can buy a complete shim kit and new collets. The collets will extend your service interval to over 12k miles easy, and you will always have the shim you need with the kit.
Been doing this on my M900 for 16 years now.
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Actually I'm happy about the service cost. Being Po' I do all the work myself so some day I'll be able to afford a low mileage Duc Multi with Ohlins as a long haul bike or a Duc 800 S2R for a City bike.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-sKVQXpG5l3Y/UhyVnt9gSnI/AAAAAAAAxDc/Esn_0oZhfbY/s1600/Ducati+Monster+by+Kikishop+Customs+03.jpg)
I've always wanted a bike with an Avon fairing
That tank just doesn't quite go right with that fairing for my tastes.
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First off, the valve checks / shimming and belts is easy on a 2 valver. For less than the cost of your first service you can buy a complete shim kit and new collets. The collets will extend your service interval to over 12k miles easy, and you will always have the shim you need with the kit.
Been doing this on my M900 for 16 years now.
Yes, I do the job on my 96 900M and while it takes time and patience, not difficult...The shim kits are less than 300 bucks...In reality many guys say the valves stay in adjustment much longer than the service interval..
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The biggest problem in those days was getting access to that rear cylinder, especially that intake valve on the back.
Oh, no problem. All you have to do is pull the engine out, put it on the bench, adjust that rear cylinder, and put it back in. <shrug> :smiley:
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Fortunately, my Ducati has valve springs. Valve adjustments are almost as easy as a Guzzi!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hFcWsv/IMG_0428_1.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hFcWsv)
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Oh, no problem. All you have to do is pull the engine out, put it on the bench, adjust that rear cylinder, and put it back in. <shrug> :smiley:
hahahaha
yeah, right
Hey, that's the way their shop manual shows it. They have a bare engine on a bench and the valve check/adjust looks easy at that point!
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The air cooled motor in the scrambler is a gem. If it were mine, I'd have it adjusted once properly after break in, and then just check it once in a while. So if you can do some basic maintenance, it is a cheap bike to own. Belts are easy too, and Ducati intervals are very conservative. Yes, Ducati dealer servicing is $$
My belt drive 900ss and Monster S2R1000 held clearances very well, even with track day use. On the S2r1000, i checked the clearances at the first service, and they were bang on. Never even needed to change one. And they stayed there until sold at 20,000 km. I love the air-cooled, 2 valve ducs...
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Here's something that might help put the "high cost of service" in perspective.
Go to an unlimited class tractor pull, or pull up "tractor pull fail" YouTube videos.
Guys out for a weekend's racing will blow an Allison V-12 engine sky high and rip the transmission out from under it, or tear the blower right off of a 3000 HP diesel ...
Can you imagine towing that thing back home, unloading it in the shop, and saying "Ok, let's see, where should we start ... ?"
Probably make a Ducati valve adjustment seem pretty tame .... !
Lannis
I'm not even remotely sure how competitive tractor pulling relates to the "high service costs" of a stock motorcycle :undecided:
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There's a feeling there that Ducati is worse than other brands. From the Yamaha FZ-09 board:
Out of curiosity, I asked about pricing, and the mechanic said between $400-500 to check, and $600-700 if adjustments are needed (with room to climb if they're ALL out of spec, or if other 'issues' arise). I would expect, with any extra service or hidden fees and a conservative guess, to pay around $800 for a valve adjustment job. Worth it to learn it on my own.
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The air cooled motor in the scrambler is a gem. If it were mine, I'd have it adjusted once properly after break in, and then just check it once in a while. So if you can do some basic maintenance, it is a cheap bike to own. Belts are easy too, and Ducati intervals are very conservative. Yes, Ducati dealer servicing is $$
This is where we are with the 696.
Granted Jenn doesn't put a ton of miles on it, but we're past the first check now, only do belts every 4 years or so and we've not had a single problem with it, unless you count that we mysteriously had to bleed the rear brake this year after winter storage with no sign of why.
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High Cost of Ducati Service - - I love Ducati's, vintage and modern, :thumb: :cool:, and have ridden many, but this is the main reason I never owned one... :shocked: :huh: :rolleyes:
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If you "don't put that many miles on", what's the advice about "riding the snot out of it" referring to ? Also you suggest ignoring the valve clearance specs yet you advocate sticking to the service intervals ??? And if the service costs bother you and you still want a Duke, which part of the above advice should we take on board ? Am I in trouble for asking ?
Hello Huzo!
Thanks for letting me clarify. Two distinct, contradictory approaches, either of which is not the worst thing: Approach 1. Ride it long and hard, don't obsess, it's just a machine that will likely do ok with less than absolute adherence to factory service intervals; Approach 2. Be obsessive, and don't put too many miles on it thereby keeping overall (but not per-mile) costs down.
My choice has been Approach #2.
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This is where we are with the 696.
Granted Jenn doesn't put a ton of miles on it, but we're past the first check now, only do belts every 4 years or so and we've not had a single problem with it, unless you count that we mysteriously had to bleed the rear brake this year after winter storage with no sign of why.
Yep, you've got to have a little "mechanical sympathy" to go along with the owner's manual.
As we've discussed before, the Centauro owner's manual called for belt replacement every 18000 miles, spline and U-joint grease every 1000 miles, and complete replacement of the drive shaft every 18000 miles, including both U-joints.
But Centauro owners (sharing information back and forth) soon learned that this wasn't anything close to necessary. Yes, if you're pounding the thing on a racetrack with the throttle pinned at every opportunity, you might want do that that level of maintenance, but for a normally ridden bike, the belts will go 30K+ and the driveshaft only needs greasing at every tire change (when it's easy to get to) and replacing only if it NEEDS replacing.
On my Triumph Trophy, the manual recommendation is a camshaft-out valve lash check/adjustment every 20,000 miles. However, my shop says they will work with me on that, since they've never yet seen a Trophy that needs a valve adjustment after 20,000 miles .....
I'm sure that Ducatis are pretty much the same way. You can throw off the clearances and runouts on a good solid bedded-in engine more by constantly taking it apart and fiddling with it, than just riding it and paying attention to noises and vibration changes ....
Lannis
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I have two 4 valve ducati's, both were bought used with about 3,5oo miles and both are at 24k miles now.
The service has been done per the book, and neither has ever needed a shim changed. I recently started using a local independent Ducati mechanic and he suggests that we just change belts in 7,500 miles and check the valves every other belt change.
Not to be a snob, but the extra costs are worth it. I cant think of any bike I would want to own (new or used) in place of my Monster S4Rs. I do all the maintenance other than belts and valves (and fork seals). My wife loves her 1098 but I know she would take a 1098R or 1198 in place of it.
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hahahaha
yeah, right
Hey, that's the way their shop manual shows it. They have a bare engine on a bench and the valve check/adjust looks easy at that point!
That's the way I did it. :smiley: My fat fingers just couldn't get in there..
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No worries. Harley gonna fix that lil problem. They will install hydraulic lifters and apehangers. :evil: They will recoup their money on those $100 spark plugs and "Aquila Urlando" exhaust pipes.
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Not to be a snob, but the extra costs are worth it.
Yep. I've owned one Ducati and have ridden quite a few.
I'll own one again, and yep, the extra costs are "worth it".
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Oh, no problem. All you have to do is pull the engine out, put it on the bench, adjust that rear cylinder, and put it back in. <shrug> :smiley:
Plenty of room on the older Monsters, yes, that's my wooden tank prop......I don't know about the new air cooled bikes....
(http://i.imgur.com/6qaJgiTl.jpg)
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When comparing Ducati models with their direct competition (Japanese, Italian or UK made) many of the Ducatis are easier to maintain: I have a belt 900SS to maintain (very easy), an ST2 (about the same as a comparable competitor, fairing removal is a pain) and a 996 (valves are time consuming but removing everything to gain access is wonderful). I also have a bevel SS (not often ridden and anyway very easy to maintain). If you have time to do the work yourself, its more straight forward to maintain a Ducati than most competitive bikes, it just takes some time, so my solution has been to have a few of them and take my time doing the maintenance myself. That makes it cheap.
If you compare Ducati maintenance with a Guzzi, the Guzzi is easier. Guzzis are better if you have one bike and need the maintenance done fast and cheap. More comparable to an older BMW than a Ducati in every way, including some compromise in handling and performance.
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Well, at the other end of the spectrum there's guys like me who think if only I had the option to have a Pete Roper or Harpers working on my Guzzi in SLC, Ut. I wouldn't bat an eye at those costs ...
GuzziSteve just finished the 24 k service on my Stelvio and I have the peace of mind knowing that the bike is dialed in at a level most dealerships could never attain. It runs like a Swiss watch and I feel blessed to have someone with his knowledge and ability taking care of Stonkzilla for me. I could learn to do the basics but could never match his attention to detail. I never bat an eye - he would be cheap at twice the price. My Mistral pipe is to be delivered tomorrow and I have no idea what he is going to charge to install it. That peace of mind is worth whatever he is asking and then some. It's a good place to be!
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This is where we are with the 696.
Granted Jenn doesn't put a ton of miles on it, but we're past the first check now, only do belts every 4 years or so and we've not had a single problem with it, unless you count that we mysteriously had to bleed the rear brake this year after winter storage with no sign of why.
Mysterious air appearing the rear caliper of a Ducati is "a thing". On my 620 Multistrada I had to bleed the rear brakes at least once or twice per year. No apparent reason, no leaks or loss of fluid. Just lost the pedal. Many others report the same thing. At least it is easy and quick to bleed them.
Cheers, Tim
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Yep. I've owned one Ducati and have ridden quite a few.
I'll own one again, and yep, the extra costs are "worth it".
At the end of the day, I suppose it's all relative anyway....with motorcycles and most FUN hobbies....and as the old saying goes: "If you want to PLAY...then ya gotta PAY!!" :cool: :1: :thumb:
As far as vintage Ducati's, I always had a "Jones" for this one...
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bsM2FF/Screen_Shot_2017_07_12_at_10_08_53_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/bsM2FF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/fErr9a/Screen_Shot_2017_07_12_at_10_09_02_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/fErr9a)
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Mysterious air appearing the rear caliper of a Ducati is "a thing". On my 620 Multistrada I had to bleed the rear brakes at least once or twice per year. No apparent reason, no leaks or loss of fluid. Just lost the pedal. Many others report the same thing. At least it is easy and quick to bleed them.
Cheers, Tim
Thanks for another confirmation of that. A few told me that on DMF and I was like WTF?
Funny though that's the first time it happened to us since we bought it new in 2011 <shrugs> and just had the fluid finally changed last year <shrugs again>.
JAY - you listening - watch for this on your 796 I guess.
But you're right, it was quick and easy so I'm not complaining.
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Mysterious air appearing the rear caliper of a Ducati is "a thing". On my 620 Multistrada I had to bleed the rear brakes at least once or twice per year. No apparent reason, no leaks or loss of fluid. Just lost the pedal. Many others report the same thing. At least it is easy and quick to bleed them.
Cheers, Tim
Is the rear master cylinder, not the remove reservoir, located below the master cylinder ?
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Is the rear master cylinder, not the remove reservoir, located below the master cylinder ?
Yeah, it is, just a tad bit below on the 696.
So what's the explanation?
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Sometimes a system with a lower master can cause drainback from the caliper into the master cylinder and a spongy pedal.. Generally, they may have a check valve of some sort to prevent this...Perhaps over time during storage some fluid drains back...
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Sometimes a system with a lower master can cause drainback from the caliper into the master cylinder and a spongy pedal.. Generally, they may have a check valve of some sort to prevent this...Perhaps over time during storage some fluid drains back...
But where/how does the air get in?
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Sometimes a system with a lower master can cause drainback from the caliper into the master cylinder and a spongy pedal.. Generally, they may have a check valve of some sort to prevent this...Perhaps over time during storage some fluid drains back...
How does the air get into the caliper to allow this draining back of the fluid to occur ? Unless air is entering the caliper, draining back of the fluid would leave a a vacuum in the top of the caliper and prevent displacement would it not ?
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But where/how does the air get in?
Not so much air as the slow seepage of fluid retracts the caliper piston and makes for excessive travel... Do you see or hear the air when you bleed it?
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As I said, it is a thing. No logical explanation. It just happens, "mysteriously"!!!
Cheers, Tim
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I found on my 996 that tightening the rear caliper bleed nipple slightly tighter correlated to the issue going away. Whether that was the cause or if was unrelated I don't know, but the rear brake previously needed to be bled after a period of storage, now it does not.
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As I said, it is a thing. No logical explanation. It just happens, "mysteriously"!!!
Cheers, Tim
There will be a logical explanation. Only Guzzies defy logic !!!
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I found on my 996 that tightening the rear caliper bleed nipple slightly tighter correlated to the issue going away. Whether that was the cause or if was unrelated I don't know, but the rear brake previously needed to be bled after a period of storage, now it does not.
Ever tried to bore out and replace a snapped bleed nipple ? Taking it out and carefully cleaning the tapered end and replacing it is a good move.
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Ever tried to bore out and replace a snapped bleed nipple ? Taking it out and carefully cleaning the tapered end and replacing it is a good move.
Yes, and I'm sure I did that before tightening the bleed nipple slightly tighter. Or I replaced it. The female surface is likely to be an issue too, particularly if it doesn't match the nipple. I've been working on motorcycles, cars and airplanes since 1974.
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Yes, and I'm sure I did that before tightening the bleed nipple slightly tighter. I've been working on motorcycles, cars and airplanes since 1974.
Yes mate it's ok... really. I broke one off on a GT 380 in 1977. Made a dogs breakfast of the repair back then. Done it since ok though.
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Not so much air as the slow seepage of fluid retracts the caliper piston and makes for excessive travel... Do you see or hear the air when you bleed it?
Most definitely air bubbles. Also to add more mystery, my bike was never stored. Ridden all year round and almost daily. It just happened, no rhyme or reason to it.
Tim
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Yes mate it's ok... really. I broke one off on a GT 380 in 1977. Made a dogs breakfast of the repair back then. Done it since ok though.
No bleed nipples were broken on the Ducati, it was not an issue.
Most definitely air bubbles. Also to add more mystery, my bike was never stored. Ridden all year round and almost daily. It just happened, no rhyme or reason to it.
Interesting. I had previously understood that the issue was common to 916-998 style bikes (only), after storage. You live and learn.
This reminds me of the 1996-98 Guzzi master cylinders, supplied by Brembo, that had inconsistent level travel and feel. Meanwhile Ducatis with Brembo master cylinders had no such problem. I'm not that impressed with Brembo engineering, despite their reputation. That problem was only fixed on Guzzis when the V11 Sport came out.
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Most definitely air bubbles. Also to add more mystery, my bike was never stored. Ridden all year round and almost daily. It just happened, no rhyme or reason to it.
Tim
Then you have air in the system, it's that simple...
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I think that this makes me glad that I own a Guzzi. :thumb:
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Then you have air in the system, it's that simple...
Then the million dollar question is: How is it entering the system? If the seals or bleed nipple were leaking then surely there would be brake fluid loss, especially under pressure of braking.
Master cylinder reservoir was always full. I don't disagree that air was getting in but where?
Tim
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At the end of the day, I suppose it's all relative anyway....with motorcycles and most FUN hobbies....and as the old saying goes: "If you want to PLAY...then ya gotta PAY!!" :cool: :1: :thumb:
As far as vintage Ducati's, I always had a "Jones" for this one...
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bsM2FF/Screen_Shot_2017_07_12_at_10_08_53_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/bsM2FF)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/fErr9a/Screen_Shot_2017_07_12_at_10_09_02_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/fErr9a)
I had one for 15 years or so.. it was the best sounding motorcycle I've ever had with those Contis. Problem was, I was afraid to ride it any farther than I was willing to walk. :wink:
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Then the million dollar question is: How is it entering the system? If the seals or bleed nipple were leaking then surely there would be brake fluid loss, especially under pressure of braking.
Master cylinder reservoir was always full. I don't disagree that air was getting in but where?
Tim
Are they conventional rubber brakes hoses or a hard plastic? I have heard of air entering hoses without fluid leaking out....And moisture can pass through some hoses....
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Plastic coated braided stainless. OEM. Never a problem on the front. Only the rear.
Tim
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Not so much air as the slow seepage of fluid retracts the caliper piston and makes for excessive travel... Do you see or hear the air when you bleed it?
It wasn't just an issue of travel, it wouldn't pump up to a firm lever. Yes we got a good bit of air out of the caliper when we bled it. Refilled the reservoir 3-4 times in the process.
As I said, it is a thing. No logical explanation. It just happens, "mysteriously"!!!
Cheers, Tim
Oh I believe you and it makes me feel better to know that. But I'm still curious how/why.
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I found on my 996 that tightening the rear caliper bleed nipple slightly tighter correlated to the issue going away. Whether that was the cause or if was unrelated I don't know, but the rear brake previously needed to be bled after a period of storage, now it does not.
Noted.I definitely snugged it.
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There's a feeling there that Ducati is worse than other brands. From the Yamaha FZ-09 board:
I just had my 2015 FJR done at the shop. 16 valves, one changed so cams had to come off, replaced coolant, re balanced the 4 throttle bodies, lots of plastic . Total cost was $612. That is the 26,625 mile maintenance interval. The FJ09 has the same valve check interval and they told me it would be a bit less.
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Then you have air in the system, it's that simple...
But how did it get in?
In our case the system was sealed for 5 years, than last year completely flushed, refilled, and pads replaced.
The bike was ridden maybe only a thousand or so miles, including 50 or so on the track.
The brakes operated fine all season.
Then it was stored by first snow/salt and not taken out of the attached/insulated/partially climate controlled garage until spring where the pedal was immediately found mushy for the first time since the bike had been ridden/stored/removed from storage in the 6 years since we bought it new.
There was absolutely no sign of fluid leaking.
The only other clue and maybe this has something to do with it. The bladder in the reservoir was a bit extended, but I don't remember if that was only after we started bleeding it before topping it up the first time or if it was already extended last season. Still that shouldn't have been since it was flushed and filled and no m there were no leaks.
I dunno, I'm not going to worry about it particularly, I'm just curious.
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My Multistrada 620 was $600 US every service interval, which included timing belts. .. Was a great bike.
Cheers, Tim
I had one, and it definitely was fun to ride. Downsides = taking off lots of plastic to do anything mechanical and most ridiculously just to remove the seat (the "patch" was to velcro it on!). I only did it once, but it took more than a few hours to set the valves, and you had to worry about dropping a valve into the head (one way to prevent this was to stuff rope or something similar into the cylinder). Timing belts weren't too bad, but that was over $100 for parts. The "killer" for me was the swelling of the tank, which really wasn't Ducati's fault or the Acerbis (?) as they weren't building the tanks to handle the ethanol.
Rich A
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But how did it get in?
In our case the system was sealed for 5 years, than last year completely flushed, refilled, and pads replaced.
The bike was ridden maybe only a thousand or so miles, including 50 or so on the track.
The brakes operated fine all season.
Then it was stored by first snow/salt and not taken out of the attached/insulated/partially climate controlled garage until spring where the pedal was immediately found mushy for the first time since the bike had been ridden/stored/removed from storage in the 6 years since we bought it new.
There was absolutely no sign of fluid leaking.
The only other clue and maybe this has something to do with it. The bladder in the reservoir was a bit extended, but I don't remember if that was only after we started bleeding it before topping it up the first time or if it was already extended last season. Still that shouldn't have been since it was flushed and filled and no m there were no leaks.
I dunno, I'm not going to worry about it particularly, I'm just curious.
The air is in the moisture that's always in brake fluid despite a sealed system...Or the air passes through hoses without fluid seeping out...There is no other explanation ?
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I had one for 15 years or so.. it was the best sounding motorcycle I've ever had with those Contis. Problem was, I was afraid to ride it any farther than I was willing to walk. :wink:
My Darmah needed rod bearings at around 40,000 miles. I overhauled the crank and engine myself and rode it a bit more before selling it. I found the Darmah to be a pretty well engineered device with that exception and certainly no problem to service. The 2V Ducatis only got better/easier to service after that and early-mid 1990s Monsters sold in large volume to commuters. They are practical in that role, with straightforward service. I was paying $150-200 max for a desmo valve adjust and carb synch in that era. Then in the late 90s when IMHO most of the bikes from most of the manufacturers started becoming what Fabio Taglioni (Ducati designer) had earlier termed "two wheeled cars". Too bad, but its hardly restricted to Ducatis.
There are some exceptions (small block Guzzis and the SV650 Suzuki come to mind) but 21st complexity has not made motorcycles better for the owner in my mind, regardless of manufacturer. What it has done is increase service cost and complexity to maintain dealer revenue, in spite of lower volume sales.
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The air is in the moisture that's always in brake fluid despite a sealed system...Or the air passes through hoses without fluid seeping out...There is no other explanation ?
Decades of riding and wrenching and this has never happened to another brake system of mine.
Heck, it didn't happen to the front of the same bike.
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Does the brake fluid give off a gas that accumulates over an extended period and congregates in the top of the caliper? Maybe it's not actually "air" in the system, or the water vapour in the fluid, is gassing off and accumulating ? Got me rooted.
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Does the brake fluid give off a gas that accumulates over an extended period and congregates in the top of the caliper? Maybe it's not actually "air" in the system, or the water vapour in the fluid, is gassing off and accumulating ? Got me rooted.
Brake fluid does not give off gas.
But however once you reach its boiling point by braking too hard too fast & cause the brake fluid to boil up, condensation will form once it cools down. rarely but does happen O2 forms instead of H2O...
At least that is what my tech tells me LOL...
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Brake fluid does not give off gas.
But however once you reach its boiling point by braking too hard too fast & cause the brake fluid to boil up, condensation will form once it cools down. rarely but does happen O2 forms instead of H2O...
At least that is what my tech tells me LOL...
Sounds fair Timmy
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Rear brake on the Ducati is barely used and never gets anywhere near hot. Even when working properly it is somewhat anemic. Never near hot enough to boil fluid.
Tim