Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bad Chad on July 12, 2017, 01:56:22 PM
-
My original roofing shingles are 21 years old and wearing out. They are the standard 3 tab asphalt type used throughout much of he country. The roof doesn't leak.
Most roofers seem to want to do a total tear off, and I'm trying to figure out why? They make substantially more money, doing a tear off but is it necessary? Some swear its the only way to go, others not so much. My town does allow one overlay.
Searching the net, I seem to find no consensus. So knowing how everyone is always in agreement here at WG, I thought I'd ask for opinions.
-
It's not necessary. In fact in NC the code allows a third layer. Dad and I put a second layer on the roof of the house I grew up in, and 25 years later I had a roofer take those two off and put new shingles on. The roofer agreed that it's not necessary to remove just one layer, and the cost to strip was the same, whether there was one layer or two.
Another interesting thing... It could have used the last shingle job a couple years earlier, but I would occasionally go into the attic after a rain and smell for wet wood. Finally I noticed the smell and had the job done. I ended up having the roofer replace two bad sheets of plywood after they stripped the old shingles. He charged $32 to change each sheet, so it cost me $64 to wait a couple years to do the job. At something like $2,400 dollars for the job, getting two more years was worth $96, so I netted $32 by waiting until it was actually leaking slightly. Also, the new shingles will go two years farther than they would have.
-
My town allows two overlays, for a total of THREE layers of shingles. Stupid.
Why would you want to double the weight load on your roof structure?
Why would you want to potentially miss some repairs that are needed?
Funny, but most roofers around here would rather do the quick and dirty overlay, rather than a tear-off.
If you're planning on keeping the house for ten or twenty years, by all means do the tear-off.
If you're planning to sell the house soon, don't do anything.
If you're planning to sell the house in five years, take the short-cut, do the overlay.
As always, YMMV.
-
My house was 23 years old when I had shingles, gutters, and downspouts replaced (downspouts and gutters because the smaller ones that came on the house tended to overflow in a very hard rain.)
My roofer went up on the roof, spent quite a while examining things, and announced that my existing roof was suitable for an overlay vs a tear off. That was in 2005. All is well in 2017, 12 years later.
And yes, it was quite a bit less costly.
Bob
-
Speaking as someone who has been paid to fix structural damage done by water and the extra weight of a layer of shingles , do the tear off . Yeah , you might get lucky , but it always amazes me how someone will spend large sums of money on cars and motorcycles but get all penny wise and pound foolish on their home . If you get mold in your attic , or crack a rafter or a joist , both of which I've seen happen , it will cost way more than fixing it right the first time .
Dusty
-
I'll throw this in the mix.....Metal roofing is an alternative, you still have the tearoff but if you do a double layer of 90 pound felt and then the metal roof It'll oulast us both. They make some architechtural steel thats pretty cool and looks like shingles,slate,etc. Pricing might surprise you compared to asphalt. My $.02
Paul B :boozing:
-
Even if it's all structurally sound, how do you decontaminate all those nooks and crannies? You've got a 20+ year accumulation of the stuff that wore that roof out UNDERNEATH the new stuff, which then starts collecting more on the other side. Overlaying doesn't compute for me.
-
The newer thick architectural shingles are about 350 pounds a square..A smaller house might be 14 square.. When put over an existing roof they may not lay flat..Depends on the situation really....
-
As a contractor I will not do the roof job if the customer doesnt want to remove the old shingles
Saves any future issues and assures no hidden problems
-
Make sure your roofer and the manufacturer will provide the same warranty on an overlay as on a single layer, most do not. Also, if you have any ice damming issues , corroded drip edges, broken or rotted decking, improper step or chimney flashing's, you definitely want to strip it and make the needed repairs. The new underlayment products like Ice and water, shield cannot be applied over existing shingles and are far superior to felt paper for preventing back water from ice dams and driven rain. If you have areas where step flashing's are present , like up a dormer side, you will need to use a shingle with an identical exposure to your originals or you will have to pull the siding to install new step flashing's on the correct exposure spacing as your new shingles. Also , flashing's may be in need of replacement which means you have to strip as well. We always strip our jobs as a rule and I am always glad we do when the horrors we find are revealed. You name it , underlayment missing in spots or non existent, rotted or broken boards, flashing's caked with roof cement, improperly installed step flashing , dripedges ect,ect.
Another consideration is if you have an older home with un even board sheathing, or a wide truss or rafter spacing and lots of wash boarding, an architectural style shingle will hide the un evenness much better than a three tab will. You can get architectural shingles in both a 5 inch or a metric (5 3/8 inch ) exposure to match your originals if step flashing's are an issue.
I have been installing roofing for over forty years and have never regretted stripping and properly prepping a job you have to stand behind for years to come. We do asphalt and slate shingles as well as rubber membrane and standing seam copper. Feel free to PM me if you have any more questions. Dave
-
I had my roof replaced 8 or 9 years ago. State Farm dumped me there after.
Had the old one removed and new roof put on. They replaced some of the decking that was bad and built the roof up from there. Thorough job.
-
Tear them off, do you really want all that extra weight. What happens down the road if the roof starts leaking and you have two layers, it's harder to fix. After hail or other storm damage insurance companies pay to strip them off and they wouldn't spend the money without a reason.
-
Last year I had both the house and garage roofs replaced...Only layer of architectural singles stripped to expose the sheating..And there was some sheating damge despite no leaks...8 sheets of plywood, water shield 6 foot up from the eaves and the lifetime guarantee shingles....We just sold the house without a realtor, this house shows a lot of roof and the spiffy green GAF Timberline HD shingles made the sale :grin:
-
I know nothing about your roof or situation, but I think these look beautiful:
https://www.tesla.com/solarroof
-
Just had mine done last Thursday. Complete tear off on every roof I've had done. 😎
-
I redid the roof on my house in Cali a few years ago. Code allows for three layers. I just had them do an overlay. Looks great and 30 year guarantee.
-
I know nothing about your roof or situation, but I think these look beautiful:
https://www.tesla.com/solarroof
$96K to do my roof at 40% return or $139K for 70% return. I like them but.....
-
I'm not a fan of composition shingles. They are heavy and do little to strengthen your roof. We put metal roofs on all our buildings here on the farm. The panels are custom-cut to length, eliminating many potential failure points, they are fireproof, recycleable, they are screwed down to your roof decking (rather than nailed or stapled), and are available in a wide array of colors. We put a white metal roof on our home, which reduced radiant heat transfer to the attic by 40% (important here in S. Louisiana). Our metal roofs and Hardi-Plank cladding were even responsible for a home insurance discount due to the reduced fire hazard. I know that some developments don't allow them, but if they do they represent a very desirable option.
-
...tarp n' tires?
-
I'm not a fan of composition shingles. They are heavy and do little to strengthen your roof. We put metal roofs on all our buildings here on the farm. The panels are custom-cut to length, eliminating many potential failure points, they are fireproof, recycleable, they are screwed down to your roof decking (rather than nailed or stapled), and are available in a wide array of colors. We put a white metal roof on our home, which reduced radiant heat transfer to the attic by 40% (important here in S. Louisiana). Our metal roofs and Hardi-Plank cladding were even responsible for a home insurance discount due to the reduced fire hazard. I know that some developments don't allow them, but if they do they represent a very desirable option.
Metal roofs are somewhat popular here in western NY state because the snow slides off... but they do have some draw backs....Most are thin gauge easily dented by debris like small tree limbs. It also makes access to the roof more difficult for the homeowner ..And some don't like the extra noise during hard rains...I personally did a metal roof on one of my larger outbuildings and I like the look...I didn't put one on the house because I felt the "cedar" shingle appearance fit the house style better...
-
Why would you want to double the weight load on your roof structure?
Why would you want to potentially miss some repairs that are needed?
This is my philosophy right here. Do the tear-off and inspect the structure. Only happens once every 25 - 30 years.
Metal roofs are somewhat popular here in western NY state because the snow slides off... but they do have some draw backs....Most are thin gauge easily dented by debris like small tree limbs.
I was looking at metal roof for my house until I did a little research. With all the large trees I have in my yard over hanging my house I decide against it. I'm always cleaning debris and branches off the roof of my house and detached garage.
-
I was a builder for quite a few years and I would never consider anything but a complete tear off before new shingles. I was back in my home town at one point and my Father needed a new roof. 6 or 7 years before, he had an overlay done on the old shingles, and after that short period the roof started to leak. I stripped the old shingles off and reroofed it with new. They make a flat spade with notches for popping the old shingles off, but two layers was still a job. I routinely turned down roofing jobs after that if the customer wanted anything but a complete tear off. It pays for itself in the end.
-
Chad!
I get building permits for folks (owners, contractors, architects) for a living in Chicago, and hear this argument all of the time. All the experience I've had indicates ALWAYS tear off the old roof. For all of the reasons stated in the earlier responses. It's not just a contractor trying to up the prices. Of course they're going to try to make you happy and get the job so they'll do the overlay. But unless you plan on selling the house in the near future, a tear-off provides the most solid foundation for new shingles.
A metal roof sounds like a great idea and more of them are starting to pop up in the suburbs!
Wil B.
Broadview, IL
-
For me it would depend on what is under the shingles. Many homes have 1/2 or 5/8 ply underneath. With 1/2" ply and a double layer you can see the sag between the joists. If you have a 3/4 ply roof then double layer would not be an issue.
BUT...it depends on why you need the new roof. Is it because the shingles are degraded on top (such as hail damage)? Then yes another layer would do the job. If they are damaged from beneath (water intrusion and such) then replacement is the only way to go.
And, add a layer ONLY if you are sure the ply and tar paper underlay are still in good condition.
When ours was done we stripped the two layers that were on there (1/2" ply roof) and put on new tar paper and shingles. Also replaced a couple of ply sheets and some other damage.
-
I will be doing a new roof this year. It was completeley redone around 1990. I will do the tear off and inspection. I dont want to do it again in my lifetime.
Meyal roofs must be gaining in popularity. My son works in a steel mill and they are doing a large expansion to make custom steel roofing made to order ready to install.
-
Good point about a metal roofs being slippery to walk on. Around here, we don't need roof pitches any steeper than 4 in 12. A good pair of deck shoes can handle that with ease...
I agree with Charlie b about roof decking. The interlocking 3/4" plywood makes a strong and secure base for any type of roof.
-
...tarp n' tires?
Spoken like a real West, by God, Virginian! Well done!
-
My metal roof didn't suffer any damage in the last tornado. With 6 inches of insulation in the attic I do not hear heavy rain nor hail.
Oh, and the cats can no longer run on the roof.
Tex
-
Spoken like a real West, by God, Virginian! Well done!
Whatta ya talkin about? rdbandkab is almost a Pennsylvanian or Ohioan. :grin:
-
Do the tear off yourself. It is a good experience and makes a person appreciate the effort roofers make, to make a living, and buy their Guzzis. The money saved can go towards a new small block or something. Best of luck with your decision.
-
Do the tear off yourself. It is a good experience and makes a person appreciate the effort roofers make, to make a living, and buy their Guzzis. The money saved can go towards a new small block or something. Best of luck with your decision.
When the weather is nice, shingle work isn't unpleasant. The respect I have for roofers is their ability to do the work year round. But yes whether you strip the old ones first or add a layer, it's way cheaper to do it yourself. I bought an air nailer for the purpose, and it was well worth it. I've used it on several roof jobs over the years. When my wife, father, and I did my house with its 5,000 square foot roof, I built a crane from pipe and bolted it to a poplar tree. Then with a block and tackle on the crane boom, I'd get one of the helpers to drive the garden tractor down the driveway and lift a small pallet of shingles up to the roof. It was sure easier than carrying them up a ladder.
-
PS Metal roofs are not all the same. If you decide on one, shop carefully and beware of salesman hype. I found it interesting the contractors who did shingle roofs did not do metal roofs. Some of the metal is very thin and you just cannot walk on it at all, if that matters to you (like having to reseal vents and such).
I helped install a metal roof, but, it was on a metal building. Heavy gauge steel in those, and not cheap. Instead of nail gun invest in GOOD hammer drills :)
-
One of my neighbors installed a metal roof before Hurricane Ivan and Ivan decided that he wanted it and that was the end of that roof. Replaced by architectural shingles.
-
The respect I have for roofers is their ability to do the work year round. But yes whether you strip the old ones first or add a layer, it's way cheaper to do it yourself.
I don't know......roofing is tough work. I've done small out buildings but don't think I would ever tackle a 3,000 sq ft roof. A good team of roofers can strip and replace a roof in a two or three days.....weather permitting, haul off the debris and I can drink a couple of beers while watching. Game, set and match.
-
I don't know......roofing is tough work. I've done small out buildings but don't think I would ever tackle a 3,000 sq ft roof. A good team of roofers can strip and replace a roof in a two or three days.....weather permitting, haul off the debris and I can drink a couple of beers while watching. Game, set and match.
I got a shingles vaccination yesterday .... that's all I've got to contribute to this conversation.
-
Thanks fellas. Leaning hard to a tear off for several reasons stated here.
I did a bit of roofing on my garage of my first house, 27 years ago. I don't care how much it cost, there is no way I'm going to risk my life now, and sweet my ass off to save $1800.
I respect roofers, its dam hard work.
-
I'm a strip it down first kind of guy. I read through these responses quickly and didn't see anyone mention snow. I live in the northeast and a couple of years ago we had roofs caving in all over the place. Two or three layers of roofing is quite heavy and then add a foot or so of heavy snow ?? Just say'n.
-
I live in the northeast and a couple of years ago we had roofs caving in all over the place. Two or three layers of roofing is quite heavy and then add a foot or so of heavy snow ?? Just say'n.
It's easy enough to check the load rating of the roof and see if the added weight of shingles is significant. I did that here, planing for the future, and one layer of shingles as they're normally applied is only a small fraction of the load of a couple feet of snow. If a roof caves in because of snow load, it's unlikely any shingles below did much to help.
More than once I've been on a roof shoveling snow, because there was a foot and a half of snow up there, and rain in the forecast.
-
"Steel is real." :thumb:
-
Thanks ladies for all your help! :wink: No really, I do appreciate all the good points of view. I ended up going with the total tear off, the guy and crew I hired seemed quite consensus, and I pleased with how it turned out. I didn't consider steel, as I have yet to see a steel roof on any house here in the suburbs, and since we might sell sooner than later, I don't want to be the guy with the arrows in his back!
-
"Steel is real." :thumb:
In roofs and bicycles.