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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Farmer Dan on July 13, 2017, 07:46:42 PM
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Back in 2010 I brought home my Father's '72 Eldorado and spent several years getting it put back together and restored. It's the only bike I own so it's a daily driver and has broke down on me twice in the last 3 years. Dad wants me to sell the old girl and get something newer and more reliable. Am I crazy to think I should just stick with the old Eldorado? Still the original paint everything else has been gone through or over or replaced with new. I like this bike and really don't think a newer used bike is going to be any more "reliable" or as much fun. What would you do to keep Dad happy?
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There is so much knowledge and expertise on this board that you should be able to keep her running for many years to come...I vote keep! :thumb:
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Can't you keep it AND get a smaller, cheaper daily rider?
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Keep her. Tell dad you're doing it for him, but if he's uneasy about you riding the old gal, pick up a newer small block, and let him know that you have a more reliable ride, but that you can't get over how sweet his old bike runs. I think any dad would understand a son wanting to keep his father's bike on the road.
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If you sell it you will regret it. Nothing wrong with having two bikes. I bought a new Touring at the end of 2014 and in the spring tried to sell my 96 Honda Shadow Ace. I had no takers(may have been asking too much) but one night I was moving it off the front lawn and said to myself "why are you selling this bike?" It is a raw and simple ride compared to the Touring which is just what I like sometimes. Don't sell that dear old Eldorado!
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There is so much knowledge and expertise on this board that you should be able to keep her running for many years to come...I vote keep! :thumb:
Keeping the bike is a no-brainer. I think he is asking how to tell his Dad that.
My sage advice :evil: If your Dad likes investments and safe bets; show him a picture of that Black MV floating in another thread, or an EBay "buy-it-now" for an original Ducati 900 SS, then tell him the Eldo will fetch that price one day. :thumb:
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Do you love it, as in a personal attachment? If so, don't part with it. I have a motorcycle I feel that way about, and I can't see ever parting with it. Even if I can't ride any more and have to drain the fluids and put it in my living room just to look at.
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Your decision, but I sold my '72 Eldo because it needed the full going-through you've already given yours, and I still wish I'd kept it. If you can afford two bikes keep it. Breaking down twice is nothing .... This is not Toyota level technology.
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You will never be able to replace "Your Dad's Motorbike", I would give my left nut to get one of my Dad's old Harleys.
Keep it and restore it one day
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Keeping the bike is a no-brainer. I think he is asking how to tell his Dad that.
My sage advice :evil: If your Dad likes investments and safe bets; show him a picture of that Black MV floating in another thread, or an EBay "buy-it-now" for an original Ducati 900 SS, then tell him the Eldo will fetch that price one day. :thumb:
Yeah , er , no . Don't lie to dad . Dan , how do you feel about keeping the Eldo ? That's what really matters .
Dusty
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Most dads are less concerned about 'reliability' than they are safety, and it is possible he is actually worried that an old technology, heavy bike with Italian designed drum brakes is more dangerous than a light weight disk brake bike with ABS. He is probably right if you ride the old one the same as you would a new one. I rebuilt an old ElDorado for my son & sure wish i could make it stopped better.
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You will never be able to replace "Your Dad's Motorbike", I would give my left nut to get one of my Dad's old Harleys.
Keep it and restore it one day
Heck, keep it and restore it NOW!
Folks are suggesting that you buy a newish small-block to go with the Eldo. That may be an option, but you could take the money that would go into the new bike, spend it on the Eldo instead, and have a bike that would be as trouble-free as any new bike ... Broke down twice in the last 3 years?
Shoot, man, that's a good record for anyone's bike. Scan the WG list a bit and you'll find folks with $15,000 Guzzis that have broken down more than that .... Get Charlie or someone to fix the running parts on the Eldo with the new-bike money (assuming there is any), and you still only have one bike (one license tag, one tax bill, one battery to keep charged, one insurance payment, one set of spares and special tools, etc) to fool with and it's your Dad's ... !
Lannis
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Most dads are less concerned about 'reliability' than they are safety, and it is possible he is actually worried that an old technology, heavy bike with Italian designed drum brakes is more dangerous than a light weight disk brake bike with ABS. He is probably right if you ride the old one the same as you would a new one. I rebuilt an old ElDorado for my son & sure wish i could make it stopped better.
You may be on to something here. Maybe I should look into upgrading to disc brakes? Probably not easy to find now days.
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IIRC, upgrading to a single front disc is not difficult or terribly expensive.
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Sell it!!! I'll gladly give you 2 Miller Lite beers for it like I gave for my Eldo many years ago. Heck, I'll even DRIVE out there to pick it up.
Really, I would keep it. If you need a "safer" daily rider, do so. In Cali we can do a non-op. It means I still own it, but it's not on the road, so no insurance, registration and the like are needed.
If your like me, you'll regret selling it. I can part with all my bikes if I absolutly have to, but my Eldo will go to my grave with me!
Tom
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.... This is not Toyota level technology.
Thank goodness! :evil:
Keep it. It's in the family!
If you need a lecture on why I refer you to this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5drb3-znyBs
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First, don't listen to Tom H. He has too many motorcycles already. (takes one to know one BTW).
You've heard lots of good reasons to keep the bike, and I have no reasons to add. New brakes, and maybe suspension service/upgrade while we're at it, would go a long way toward making it safer.
Rather than being tricky (aka lie) about the future monetary value, there's a truth about not wanting to regret selling something that is irreplaceable and has high personal value.
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I suggest you consider what kinds of breakdowns you had, and whether you could do a little preventive maintenance to avoid them in the future. Your Eldo should be rock-solid with reasonable care. You might want to share what the breakdowns were, and get some feedback on how to prevent them. My T-3 is about as old, with similar technology, and has always gotten me home.
Upgrading the brakes is also a great idea -- I've ridden an Eldo and was not amused with the brakes. The T-3, though, has very satisfactory ones, and I think you can upgrade an Eldo to its level of performance. Maybe others will say more about that. Maybe T-3 parts can be adapted?
Moto
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IIRR, ugrading to front disc requires the complete front end from a '74???? Eldo to keep it looking like a stock bike with the fork covers. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, this is what I remember.
If you don;t need the original look of the forks, I think there are other options to add disc brake from either newer Guzzies or other brands.
Look at Greg Benders site, he has some tips on adding disc to drum fronts.
If you don't want to hassel with this bike, the offer is still good of 2 Lite beers to take it of your hands and save you from the misery of a drum brake bike. Heck taking it to scrap would cost you money, at least you can enjoy a cold one while I pack it up and take it away! :evil:
KEEP IT!!! Even if it becomes a living room princess.
Tom
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If you have not already, buy new pistons and cylinders, gaskets, and consumable parts etc while you can still get them. Drain the fuel in tank and carbs, run it dry. Remove battery, etc. Put some mystery oil down the cylinders and park the bike covered in a dry clean place. Buy a late model reliable bike, see how you like it. The Eldo will still be there to be loved and you can revive it at your leisure. Might be nice to have brakes, decent lighting, modern tires, etc. Ya never know. Most any of my bikes are always for sale, but then again, none were my Dad's. My dad rode bikes for awhile, then gave it up. He never wanted me to ride. Dads worry.
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Dad's concerned that you're only keeping it to preserve his feelings. First step is to ask yourself is he correct. If the answer's yes, then the solution is obvious, he'll thank you to sell it. If the answer's no, then the solution is just as obvious, and he'll thank you for keeping it. Dusty' right, don't lie to Dad, or more importantly, yourself...
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Breakdowns are part of the characterful experience of riding older bikes. Embrace them as part of the experience. Keep it. :thumb:
Nick
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I want one really bad, so I would have to say keep it
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Personally there would be no way I would consider getting rid of my dads bike if I were to be so lucky as you. It would also be for selfish reasons, not because my dad **might** think I was doing it for him. I would keep it for ME!
My dad was not riding in my lifetime, but had ridden prior to that. He has been gone many years now. He rode a Matchless which I have seen in a couple old photographs that relatives had. Someday when your dad is gone, you will be able to take that bike down the road and remember all the good times with him.
Pick up a modern small block for your daily ride and enjoy both if you are able, like a V7 or V9.
John Henry
edit: Don't let a moment of weakness become a lifetime of regret. Just sayin'.
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Keep the bike. I still have my '71 with over 200K.
If you buy a newer bike, say a B1100 Guzzi, get ready for sitting alongside the road a lot. Have a friend with a pickup because you'll need him.
Tex
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I think you said it all.
" I like this bike and really don't think a newer used bike is going to be any more "reliable" or as much fun. "
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Keep it. Improvements to the brakes and lighting are easy and fairly inexpensive. It is possible to make an old Loop very reliable with a little attention to details and thoughtful modifications.
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Guess my Dad is just going to have to get used to the idea of me keeping his bike. I really do love the bike and I can't afford two bikes so the Eldorado wins. Here is a before and after picture.
(http://i.imgur.com/fGzEB7t.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/OTsc1V2.jpg)
Only thing I haven't done is rebuild the front forks. I'll have to do some research and see how to convert to disc brake. Thanks for your input guys. :bike-037:
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Guess my Dad is just going to have to get used to the idea of me keeping his bike. I really do love the bike and I can't afford two bikes so the Eldorado wins. Here is a before and after picture.
Only thing I haven't done is rebuild the front forks. I'll have to do some research and see how to convert to disc brake. Thanks for your input guys. :bike-037:
Changing the springs made a big difference to the front of my Eldo. Check with Charlie about how to set up the 2LS brake properly. He seems to have some tricks / skill / advise about how to make it more effective. If you can find one, the 4LS brake is very effective and the only other modification required is a lower leg with the brake retaining bracket. It retains the look (destroyed IMHO by the disk conversion).
Nick
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The formula for how many bikes to have is.....
N+1
Where N is equal to the current number of bike you have! :bike-037:
To much family history there, don't let that baby go!
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You may be on to something here. Maybe I should look into upgrading to disc brakes? Probably not easy to find now days.
I'd keep it. I went through my Eldorado in the mid 1990s and since then I've run out of gas once, broke two front brake shoe springs and two clutch cables. (made it home both times). I'd say that's pretty damn good for 20-some years.
If you're iffy about the front brake send the wheel, brake, cable and lever to Vintage Brake in California. I sent them my 4LS on the Eldo and it was one of the best things I've done for that bike.
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If you can find one, the 4LS brake is very effective and the only other modification required is a lower leg with the brake retaining bracket.
Nick
It's a GREAT brake when properly set up. If it's not set up correctly it will try and kill you. These days the 4LS stuff isn't cheap. And he'll need to get the cables and associate lever parts unique to that setup.
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KEEP IT!!!
I converted my 72 Eldorado to twin disc, FAC dampers and progressive springs, it rides and stops almost as good as 'modern' bike. Mark Ethridge found me single disc front end and I used new Brembo calipers , discs and master cylinder from MG Cycle.
The front fender welded supports are different from the drum model but you could easily modify a stock fender, the chrome fender front support was off a Cali (MG Cycle), all the hose fittings and brake hose were from MG Cycle.
(http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg217/canuck750/1972%20Moto%20Guzzi%20850%20Eldorado/DSC05876_zpsgvn7myu1.jpg) (http://s249.photobucket.com/user/canuck750/media/1972%20Moto%20Guzzi%20850%20Eldorado/DSC05876_zpsgvn7myu1.jpg.html)
I am really glad I mad the change, the stopping power really instills confidence especially riding at highway speed in traffic.
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Hey FD, That is one gorgeous motorcycle, with the history and personal attachment to it, that you obviously have, I would never sell it.
You've mentioned that the forks haven't been rebuilt, I think money and time into a front fork/disc brake conversion would be well spent, and pay dividends over the years. Definitely preserving an important part of your Father's legacy, that is clearly, near and dear to you.
In regards to your Father's concerns,,, as we age and become more in tune with our mortality,,, there's probably a little voice in the back of his head, worried that if you got into an accident on his old bike, somehow he would bear/feel some responsibility. Reassure him, the joy the bike brings to you, AND your prudent actions to mitigate the risks of riding that bike,,,, and get the message to him "If I die on a ride on your bike, I die happy".
I'd stress to your father how much the bike means to you, do the work required to make it brake more effectively on the front end,,, then ride the tires off it, lol.
I agree with Roy, I'd give my left nut to be in your dilemna.
Ride safe & take care
Kelly
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If you're iffy about the front brake send the wheel, brake, cable and lever to Vintage Brake in California. I sent them my 4LS on the Eldo and it was one of the best things I've done for that bike.
I did exactly the same for my two BSA twin-leading-shoe front wheels with Vintage Brake. You can chirp the front tire on a panic stop (following a car at a reasonable distance, glance to the side at the SAME INSTANT that the car slams on brakes, look back, you're almost in his trunk, grab the brakes, SAVED!) .... the brakes will still fade on a long downhill but you can control how fast you go down that, it's an older bike and you just compensate.
A round drum, modern-composition shoes arced to the drum, and you've got decent brakes. Not disks, but good ....
Lannis
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In regards to your Father's concerns,,, as we age and become more in tune with our mortality,,, there's probably a little voice in the back of his head, worried that if you got into an accident on his old bike, somehow he would bear/feel some responsibility.
I know the feeling well. The Kid has the same afflictions as I do.. motorcycles and antique and homebuilt airplanes. I *know* those are his decisions.. but that little voice bothers me occasionally. <shrug>
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I'm not a loop frame guy, but your dad's bike could make me a convert (sorry for the play on words.)
Bob
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Keep it, I wish I still had one. The first one I bought from my Dad, I put about 168 K miles on it. during that time I bought another from the father of a pilot in my squadron so I could always have one running if one needed maintenance. I didn't have a car the four years that I was stationed at Beale AFB in California. I had to live in the barracks until I became a sergeant which I didn't like so when I was off duty I rode. and rode . Yep keep it- snapping suspenders
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Just my 2 cents worth: before going "whole hog" for a disc front end, I'd try relined shoes properly arced to the drum, with a good quality cable and linkage adjusted correctly. For the forks themselves, Wirth progressive springs and 8 oz. of 30w fork oil in each leg. See how that works, then decide if you want to go disk.
In my experience, the Guzzi disc forks will never give the ride quality of the drum forks - there's just too much "stiction" - single seals, FAC dampers and progressive springs won't change that. The drum forks are far more compliant.
It's very possible to build a disc front-end from T/T3/Convert, etc. parts and have it look "original". The drum-brake fork shrouds and fork tubes can be retained, Tonti parts needed are fork lowers/sliders, damper/spring assemblies, wheel with disc(s), caliper(s) and master cylinder. You'll need to modify the drum fender and find suitable braces or a Cal II fender will fit with minor modification. You'll need a disc Eldo axle (Harper's has them n-o-s). To get the brake disc(s) spaced out where it(they) need to be, you'll either need to find a(2) 39 mm wide bearing carrier(s) or machined aluminum spacer(s).
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Dan, my friend,You will eventually kick yourself in the ass if you ever sell that gorgeous eldo.....besides, those "Rocket" mufflers on it look badass, and no one else has them! HaHaHa :thumb:
Rick
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Can't you keep it AND get a smaller, cheaper daily rider?
:1:
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Never sell that bike. It would be like selling the old man.
Disc brakes require disc forks.
20 years from now it will still be your "go to" bike.
I still have my old mans' A5 with a prehistoric s/n...
I'll never sell that either....
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Motorcycles/MotoG/i-fc7fTN5/0/da376a2b/XL/DSCN9998-XL.jpg)
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I didn't see this question, so I'll ask- you said it broke down 2-3 times? What broke down? Can you address that point before going off in a tangent?
I had an Eldo that started 'breaking down' on a very predictable basis- turned out to be a plugged gas cap.
With regards to Charlie's statement on drum/disk forks- I have fully rebuilt disc forks with FAC dampers. It is a much stiffer ride than the old drum front end. Personally, I like that- the rear shocks are stiffer as well, but that's my personal preference. Others will (and do) see it differently.
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I didn't see this question, so I'll ask- you said it broke down 2-3 times? What broke down?
First break down turned out the generator was polarized backwards. I was 4 hours from home, once I found the problem the local harley davidson shop was so happy to see the bike he polarized the generator and put in a new regulator for free. Second time the points failed. Yea that little metal thing on the end of the arm feel off. They don't run good like that, I was two blocks from home. Third time was this exhaust nut thread. I have never heard of that problem before so I will lay the blame for that on me. I got the head back today and will be using stainless steel nuts with the lock nut on them. And check them once in a while so we don't do that again. I was 80 miles from home when the exhaust header blew off.
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Just my 2 cents worth: before going "whole hog" for a disc front end, I'd try relined shoes properly arced to the drum, with a good quality cable and linkage adjusted correctly. For the forks themselves, Wirth progressive springs and 8 oz. of 30w fork oil in each leg. See how that works, then decide if you want to go disk.
Actually I kind of like the way she handles, I just don't like all that oil leaking all over the front of my bike. I need to find someone near by that put in new seals for me. I can get the drum turned and install new shoes and better cable. I know if I take my time and adjust the brakes properly they do seem to work better. For a while any way LOL.
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Actually I kind of like the way she handles, I just don't like all that oil leaking all over the front of my bike. I need to find someone near by that put in new seals for me. I can get the drum turned and install new shoes and better cable. I know if I take my time and adjust the brakes properly they do seem to work better. For a while any way LOL.
I wouldn't turn the drum unless it's out of round.
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The forks are really easy to rebuild. If you have any mechanical aptitude, you should do them yourself.
The only specialized tool you need is a fork tube puller and you can either buy one or make one (I used a threaded rod with a plumber's emergency expandable plug on the end). Greg Bender's site has a walk-through, I am sure.
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The forks are really easy to rebuild. If you have any mechanical aptitude, you should do them yourself.
The only specialized tool you need is a fork tube puller and you can either buy one or make one (I used a threaded rod with a plumber's emergency expandable plug on the end). Greg Bender's site has a walk-through, I am sure.
It's best to have the proper tool to remove the chrome seal holders as well.
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi_loopframe_fork_rebuilding.html
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The forks are really easy to rebuild. If you have any mechanical aptitude, you should do them yourself.
The only specialized tool you need is a fork tube puller and you can either buy one or make one (I used a threaded rod with a plumber's emergency expandable plug on the end). Greg Bender's site has a walk-through, I am sure.
The way my health has been and not having the right tools I need to find someone local that can do the fork seals.
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just leave it here for a couple years........ :cool: