Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bonaventure on July 18, 2017, 06:36:31 AM
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Although the Norge captured my attention early on, Stelvio NTX is looking pretty good too. 6'02" w/ 34" inseam has me concerned about leg angle on the Norge vs the Stelvio as I'm hearing of taller riders finding better comfort on the Stelvio. Not a huge fan of spoke wheels but I can live with them. Questions follow:
- Cruise control kit for Stelvio?
- Maintenance of spokes (always have had cast road wheel bikes)?
- Spokes leak air after years (sealant dries out, etc)?
- HID or LED conversion of headlamps?
I don't do off-road, only thing the multi's I had ever saw was gravel parking lots. Never rode dirt bikes, no desire to. The ergonomics of the Stelvio NTX are the main appeal over the Norge GT 8V at this point. The ergos of my 2013 Multistrada were better actually for me than the newer 2016 one, mainly because the '13 was wider through the seating/mount area, and the entire seat ergo's of the '13 were just more comfortable for my skinny rear end-- my build tends toward lanky.
Also one minor thing: Do both headlamps illuminate for low beam operation as for high-- I hate the look of some bikes with dual parallel mounted lamps where only one is lit for low beams. Weird as it sounds, that would be a deal killer if so.
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On the NTX, both headlights operate on low beam. Each has an H-4 bulb.
Lol, you don't HAVE to take the Stelvio off-road. My guess is that, like the BMW GS, few of the bikes sold ever get dirt on their tires!
The spoke wheels are tubeless but, if you don't like the look of the spokes, you can order cast wheels used on the non-NTX models overseas. The cast wheels are not expensive as wheels go, about $500/set new. Sometimes they turn up on Ebay.
If you end up with a Stelvio, I suggest you do a search for relevant issues. Ditto for any Moto Guzzi.
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I don't do off-road
Neither do most of the so called "adventure bike riders", so don't feel bad :wink:
In the long run, you'll feel more comfortable on the NTX.
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I just posted about my ride to Arizona with a fellow Stelvio rider. I put 600 miles on the new bike and so I have a much better sense of it now. It is a wonderful motorcycle, and I do believe it is the best open road bike I have had (And I have had Harleys, BMW RTs, and a wide range of others). As for the spoke wheels, I really can't say much about spoke vs cast, for Spoke wheels are really all I have ever had, except for the BMWs. But after 22 or so bikes with spokes, I can honestly say that I have never had a thought or distraction regarding the spokes. Great bike!
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http://www.cruisingbikers.com.au/kaoko-motorcycle-cruise-control-for-moto-guzzi-stelvio-ntx-with-oem-handguards/
I will probably get this 'cruise control' for the bike. I have a feeling it is more of a throttle lock than cruise control, but that is fine for me.
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There's a thread from a couple years ago that describes how to install a Rostra cruise control (true electronic cruise) on a Stelvio.
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Just stuck a set of cast wheels on the Turd.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4217/35090977014_4329e3143e_z.jpg)
As mentioned about $500US brand new.
I'm thoroughly enjoying my Stelvio. As a mile eater its second to none, super comfy, handles OK, lots of luggage options and capacity, bags of space for the pillion, it's a real 'Jack of all trades'.
As with all 8V's the usual caveats apply to purchase.
Pete
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wheels leak air at 32000 mi.thinking about cast wheels or green slime in spoke wheels.Anyone have experience with that stuff ?
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Have you checked the spoke tension or ascertained where the air is leaking from?
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wheels leak air at 32000 mi.thinking about cast wheels or green slime in spoke wheels.Anyone have experience with that stuff ?
This is one of my concerns with spoke wheels, except the style like Ducati uses where the spoke roots are on lip of the rim outside the bead (which looks weird).
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My dealer says it is coming from the spokes.I thought I'd try the Slime and if that doesn't work get cast wheels.
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Replacing the o-rings isn't hard.
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I didn't use slime in my Norge 'cos I couldn't see how the centrifugal force would do anything other than throw the stuff outward into the tyre perimeter and away from the spoke heads. Anyway, don't worry about what your "dealer" says, just inflate the bugger and put it under water and see where the bubbles come from, do you think that might work ?
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Replacing the o-rings isn't hard.
When new tires are installed is it recommended to apply a silicone spray to the interior of the rim (and wipe down) where the spokes connect to help prevent the o-rings from drying out?
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No, no need. As long as the nipples are assembled correctly, with care, and the spokes kept tensioned there is no reason they shouldn't remain airtight for a very long time.
Pete
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No, no need. As long as the nipples are assembled correctly, with care, and the spokes kept tensioned there is no reason they shouldn't remain airtight for a very long time.
Pete
How do you tension spokes and how often do they need it? Won't DIY tensioning have the potential to cause an out-of-round condition or something? Can you tell I've always had cast wheel bikes ... :grin:
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I don't think a Moto Guzzi is for you. Good luck with your next motorbike.
Pete
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- Maintenance of spokes (always have had cast road wheel bikes)?
- Spokes leak air after years (sealant dries out, etc)?
Why not do what many have done so far? Get a set of these http://www.guzzitech.com/store/product/oem-stelvio-cast-wheels/ and forget about the entire spoked wheel dilemma you seem to have? :wink:
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My dealer says it is coming from the spokes.I thought I'd try the Slime and if that doesn't work get cast wheels.
Holy crap! And your "dealer" didn't offer to address this easy fix ?
Don't use Slime. Either replace the o-rings, or buy cast wheels.
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I don't think a Moto Guzzi is for you. Good luck with your next motorbike.
Pete
Just because I'm not experienced with spoke wheels? :huh:
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No, because I think you will be disappointed because the machine won't meet your expectations of maintenance free perfection.
Pete
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No, because I think you will be disappointed because the machine won't meet your expectations of maintenance free perfection.
Pete
After reviewing the maintenance schedule I downloaded for the 8V Norge and 8V Stelvio, I actually do now agree with you. Inclined to stick with a chain drive bike after seeing the oil change frequency on the shaft system, and in light of the info about dry shaft bearings from the factory that need to be DIY greased and etc.
These bikes really are maintenance intensive it looks like, for instance spark plugs every 6200 miles, wow. Ducati seems way out in front of MG in this area.
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After reviewing the maintenance schedule I downloaded for the 8V Norge and 8V Stelvio, I actually do now agree with you. Inclined to stick with a chain drive bike after seeing the oil change frequency on the shaft system, and in light of the info about dry shaft bearings from the factory that need to be DIY greased and etc.
These bikes really are maintenance intensive it looks like, for instance spark plugs every 6200 miles, wow. Ducati seems way out in front of MG in this area.
Damn that's funny! :grin:
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After reviewing the maintenance schedule I downloaded for the 8V Norge and 8V Stelvio, I actually do now agree with you. Inclined to stick with a chain drive bike after seeing the oil change frequency on the shaft system, and in light of the info about dry shaft bearings from the factory that need to be DIY greased and etc.
These bikes really are maintenance intensive it looks like, for instance spark plugs every 6200 miles, wow. Ducati seems way out in front of MG in this area.
Let's see...
- Engine oil every 6K miles / 10K km. That's less often than most cars on the road today, let alone motorcycles. 20 minutes.
- Gearbox and final drive fluids - nominally every 6K miles (takes all of 10 minutes) but many riders will double that (I do, since I had my fluids tested after use and determined that they were more than holding up).
- Spark plugs - inspect as needed, replace every third or fourth oil change. Platinum or iridium plugs can easily go 20-60,000 miles depending on conditions. On my 2v, the outer platinum plugs get changed about every 20,000 and the inner iridiums about twice as often - but I just do it whenever I have a good reason to take off the airbox. Outer plugs, 10 minutes, inner plugs (if applicable to your model) about 45-60 minutes.
- Valve clearance - whenever they get too noisy (30-60 minutes depending on 2v vs 8v, with time for a beverage).
I can't see anything in maintaining a Guzzi that's more intensive than other bikes, and it's all far simpler to do than it is on virtually any other bike. Try doing a valve adjustment on a Ducati - or a Suzuki! - at your motel halfway through a 10,000 mile trip. I can't see why anybody would be intimidated by the maintenance of a Moto Guzzi.
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Damn that's funny! :grin:
What's funny? Service interval on new Ducati's with the advanced variable valvle timing (DVT) engine every 9000 miles, valve clearance inspection every 18,000 miles. Standard spark plugs every 18,000 miles, chain and sprockets as needed I generally got 20,000 miles per set but was religious about cleaning and lubing (Dupont multi-use in the blue can) regularly.
And... what I was refering to was the service intervals published by Moto Guzzi in the owner manual I downloaded for the Norge 1200 8V and for Stelvio 1200 8V. It's good that most guys stretch those intervals out but the manual says "R" for Replace on the shaft fluids and spark plugs not inspect. I realize there's Real World and there's the schedule in the manual, and the same Real World stretching out of intervals can be attributed to a lot of Ducatisti as well . . .
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What's funny is you baulking at service intervals and thinking they are 'High Maintenance'.
Regular servicing on a Guzzi is really quick and easy, that is reflected in the cost. Yes, the factory fear of grease and loctite means that you need to do stuff like grease the swingarm bearings and shock linkages but that is pretty much a 'One off' although I'd encourage people to revisit them every 100,000km or so, more often if you ford streams and the like obviously.
Doing the valve lash on a Ducati may need to be done less often, at least in theory, but it requires taking the motorbike half to bits and to be brutally honest I don't think that a lot of the blokes servicing them are up to the task! Heavens, even servicing a W5AM Guzzi properly seems to be beyond a lot of them! There is also the fact that I'll bet dollars to donuts that if people actually LOOKED they'd find a host of things like dry chassis bearings on them too. It's a common problem, apparently people don't like to see grease on *New* bikes in the showroom so they don't put any in! Shitbox BMW's are notorious for it as well I hear!
I stand by my assertion that a Guzzi won't meet your elevated expectations of what a vehicle can and should do and I think you would be better off looking elsewhere. This is not said with any derision or malice, it's simply an observation and I wouldn't want you to be disappointed.
Pete
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No worries brother, I came to the forum for honest advice on the bikes since I'm not familiar with them at all. Don't expect maintenance free of course, just trying to get a handle on what I'd be getting into. There's a long distance dealer offering 5000 $ off a left over 2016 NTX and I can be an impulse buyer when the stars line up right, so it's not out of the question that I may end up with a new one. In which case I'd likely be taking it to the nearby (2.5 hrs) Guzzi dealer to have the services done and that would solely be to keep things frosty in the rare event something went pop and I'd need Guzzi to approve a warranty claim. I'm a firm believer in having service documented at a dealership while the warranty period is active. Discounted one is orange though and I likes me the dark green much more.
What's funny is you baulking at service intervals and thinking they are 'High Maintenance'.
Regular servicing on a Guzzi is really quick and easy, that is reflected in the cost. Yes, the factory fear of grease and loctite means that you need to do stuff like grease the swingarm bearings and shock linkages but that is pretty much a 'One off' although I'd encourage people to revisit them every 100,000km or so, more often if you ford streams and the like obviously.
Doing the valve lash on a Ducati may need to be done less often, at least in theory, but it requires taking the motorbike half to bits and to be brutally honest I don't think that a lot of the blokes servicing them are up to the task! Heavens, even servicing a W5AM Guzzi properly seems to be beyond a lot of them! There is also the fact that I'll bet dollars to donuts that if people actually LOOKED they'd find a host of things like dry chassis bearings on them too. It's a common problem, apparently people don't like to see grease on *New* bikes in the showroom so they don't put any in! Shitbox BMW's are notorious for it as well I hear!
I stand by my assertion that a Guzzi won't meet your elevated expectations of what a vehicle can and should do and I think you would be better off looking elsewhere. This is not said with any derision or malice, it's simply an observation and I wouldn't want you to be disappointed.
Pete
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No worries brother, I came to the forum for honest advice on the bikes since I'm not familiar with them at all. Don't expect maintenance free of course, just trying to get a handle on what I'd be getting into. There's a long distance dealer offering 5000 $ off a left over 2016 NTX and I can be an impulse buyer when the stars line up right, so it's not out of the question that I may end up with a new one. In which case I'd likely be taking it to the nearby (2.5 hrs) Guzzi dealer to have the services done and that would solely be to keep things frosty in the rare event something went pop and I'd need Guzzi to approve a warranty claim. I'm a firm believer in having service documented at a dealership while the warranty period is active. Discounted one is orange though and I likes me the dark green much more.
Here's the thing Boney. Buggerising around with your Guzzi isn't a chore, the more you fart around, the more you learn and it starts to become fun. You develop a bit of a bond and you enter a sort of fraternity that is a damn nice place to be. Have a read of some of the shit that some of these blokes gave gotten into in far flung corners of the world and Guzzi owners come bursting out of the woodwork with multiple offers of assistance. You will develop friendships that transcend the mere fact that you are riding a stinking old Moto Guzzi, you start to believe in yourself and if you get a bit ahead of yourself there's plenty of free advice to help you back on track. Don't let some perfumed little tool work on your Panigale and rip you off in the process. Get down and dirty with the salt of the earth, you'll be happier here, and don't go near Roper unless he's wearing a muzzle...
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If you're riding 2.5 hours to a dealer to do valves better leave early as the heads need to be cool (as in not warm at all from riding) to adjust. My experience is 4 hours after I pull the heads (and cover the internals with a clean rag) to cool off. Overnight is best.
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Get down and dirty with the salt of the earth, you'll be happier here, and don't go near Roper unless he's wearing a muzzle...
No muzzle necessary - at least, not that they have those new-fangled electronic things. He can bark all he wants (and we enjoy it) and no worries about bites :evil:
Besides, on the Internet nobody knows you're a dog.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f8/Internet_dog.jpg)
Thanks to The New Yorker and artist/editorialist Peter Steiner!
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Hey, the judge said I could take the tracking bracelet off, OK! :evil:
Pete
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Found a left over 2014 NTX still new in the showroom at a dealer much closer but they're asking more $$ than the far away shop with the left over 2016. Even if the 2014 was reduced more, that's a long time to sit and how many times has it been started and let to idle for a potential buyer to hear it run? That's a lot of moisture left in the crankcase over three or four years.
The new 2016 is $11,995 but about $2K xtra after freight, setup, doc fee, cross country transport to my driveway. Still well within the settlement GEICO paid on my totaled Duc however. And yep, I know the depreciation hit is a bitch on not just new bikes but the new Guzzi's in particular. However, I'm not looking to get one to turn around and sell it in a few yrs either. The thing about the Guzzi's that I like, coming off a high tech bike stoked with all the newest goodies is that they're (Guzzi's) basically already old (prefer term Classic) when you buy new. Pretty much what has worked for Harley Davidson but hd's aren't my cup of tea. Did learn to ride on a '98 Sportster 1200 95th anniv edition, then traded up to a dyna, then sold and took flying lessons, bought a '67 Pa-28 140, got milked to death on upkeep of that old bird (whole other level of required upkeep in aviation...), sold and stopped flying... started riding again in 2013 (2013 Multistrada) as a tonic for my soul after the unexpected death of my wife @ age 45 in 2012. Hit a deer with the 2013 Duc December 2015, totaled it, bought the 2016 Duc to replace, totaled it this past February after encountering gravel kickout 2nd half of an s-curve. Pretty much recovered from broken left ankle (plate and screws installed), broken right arm (titanium rod installed), broken neck (C6, C7 spinous process's 12 weeks in a neck brace). If I'd not been wearing full gear I'd be gone, the old cliche' "helmet saved my life" came true, but I always ride geared up. Well, at least helmet gloves and boots... summer heat has seen me ditch my jackets occasionally (bad idea, I know). Got a concussion even w/ the Nolan N104 on.
Granted, any bike would have went down in the scenario I encountered, or so I tell myself to make it feel better. In retrospect the accident was preventable and that's hard to admit. Knew the road knew the curve and shouldn't have made that sort of run through it that time of year was about 50mph through the apex.
How did this turn out to be about recent personal history?.... must be the coffee.
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At least you've got a history mate...Flew Cubs and Pawnees a lot. Which one is the PA 28 ?
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At least you've got a history mate...Flew Cubs and Pawnees a lot. Which one is the PA 28 ?
Piper Cherokee 140 with the RAM 160hp STC, it was about 500 SMOH by Zeypher in Florida at the time I acquired it. Wasn't a bad airplane had been through a restoration so had recent paint and interior, firewall-forward was done at time of the major overhaul as well, but I still lost a vacuum pump (sun was setting on way to home base I'm only VFR rated, that was fun...not), then later needed altimeter (had a yellow tagged unit put in), King kx135 gps went flakey, gear struts constantly sticking (common cherokee thing) had to have rebuilt, nose wheel shimmy on roll out after landing, starboard fuel tank draincock began leaking ... and more. Was always something but that's old airplanes. Was based at a class c airport where fbo's labor rates were high, was lucky to have an A&P/IA 30 minutes north at a small country field who charged about half that and allowed owner to participate in the annual inspection. She was still a nice flier, well rigged & flew hands off once trimmed in cruise flt.
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Never did much in Cherokees. Mainly C172 RG and aforesaid Super Cubs and Pawnees
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Even if the 2014 was reduced more, that's a long time to sit and how many times has it been started and let to idle for a potential buyer to hear it run? That's a lot of moisture left in the crankcase over three or four years.
Seriously. You overthink everything, don't you?
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Seriously. You overthink everything, don't you?
Pretty much, yeah. Some call it OCD I call it being thorough :smiley:
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Pretty much, yeah. Some call it OCD I call it being thorough :smiley:
That's fair enough Bonaventure, but if you think about something and end up with more questions than answers, sometimes best to just say "bugger it" and jump. And are you sure it's OCD? The letters look all wrong that way, the arrangement is all wrong and it bugs me to death...!
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Let's see...
- Engine oil every 6K miles / 10K km. That's less often than most cars on the road today, let alone motorcycles. 20 minutes.
I'm not defending the OP's position, but being a stickler for precision that statement is just not true.
Normal usage for MOST cars today is in the 8-10k range.
Yeah, air-cooled bikes still tend to be in this range, some even more frequent.
[/list]
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Found a left over 2014 NTX still new in the showroom at a dealer much closer but they're asking more $$ than the far away shop with the left over 2016. Even if the 2014 was reduced more, that's a long time to sit and how many times has it been started and let to idle for a potential buyer to hear it run? That's a lot of moisture left in the crankcase over three or four years.
No, no it's not.
First, what dealers start a bike in a showroom to let it idle? Even the moron Harley salesman don't do that.
But then if they did you aren't getting jack in condensation because they aren't going to then let it sit and idle in the showroom for 10 minutes to come to temp (or close, which is really what is needed to get enough cooling for condensation).
But even if it happened 2 dozen times the damn thing lives in a show room, not a swamp or shed.
Nah, nope, not a real worry.
Though I still don't think a Guzzi is the right path for you.
Hell it barely is for me and I can only tolerate one at a time. I need my nice low maintenance more reliable Harleys to fill in all the gaps.
I'd add <ducking and running> but I'm serious.
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I'm not defending the OP's position, but being a stickler for precision that statement is just not true.
Normal usage for MOST cars today is in the 8-10k range.
Yeah, air-cooled bikes still tend to be in this range, some even more frequent.
[/list]
Perhaps a slight bit of hyperbole, but I would note that there's a difference between 'most cars sold today' and 'most cars on the road'. Long intervals started with performance cars back around 2004 or so (I first saw it on my '04 GTO) and gradually worked their way across all models. Since so many older cars are still being driven, my SWAG is that there are still a lot out there with a 3-4000 mile oil change specified. Either way, the recommended interval for the Moto Guzzis is basically a *shrug* - no big deal.
BTW, I had a lab check my oil in the Norge after it had been in for 11,000 miles one time, and it was still within spec and basically clean. I don't do this all the time, but I wanted to see exactly what the limits were in case I ever did something silly (like the IronButt Rally). So I tend to take a relaxed attitude about the issue.
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Perhaps a slight bit of hyperbole, but I would note that there's a difference between 'most cars sold today' and 'most cars on the road'. Long intervals started with performance cars back around 2004 or so (I first saw it on my '04 GTO) and gradually worked their way across all models. Since so many older cars are still being driven, my SWAG is that there are still a lot out there with a 3-4000 mile oil change specified. Either way, the recommended interval for the Moto Guzzis is basically a *shrug* - no big deal.
BTW, I had a lab check my oil in the Norge after it had been in for 11,000 miles one time, and it was still within spec and basically clean. I don't do this all the time, but I wanted to see exactly what the limits were in case I ever did something silly (like the IronButt Rally). So I tend to take a relaxed attitude about the issue.
Mea-culpa I did read most cars today as "most cars sold today" or "most current production cars".
The said I was writing for Chilton in the 90's and maintenance intervals we're already longer on most cars sold then, it's just that most owners were stuck on the 3k oil change mentality which was already only for severe service.[/list]