Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: AaronH on August 23, 2017, 12:43:36 AM
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Hello everyone. I originally came here when I was looking at V7s and the 1400 Eldorado, but ended up buying a 1998 V11 EV as my first Guzzi, with about 26,800 miles. It needs some work, but it was priced vary fairly and has good maintenance records since it is a one-owner motorcycle. It had variable idle from rough to stalling and a bad stumble from about 3500 rpm on, but even with the stumble, I really liked riding it, so I bought it. I don't think anything major is wrong and I figured fixing it will be a good learning experience.
First, I checked and fixed any cracked vacuum lines I could find. The intake boots are cracked and I've ordered replacements for both sides, but I'm still waiting on the ones closest to the cylinder head to arrive. I checked the valves and set them at .004" intake and .006" exhaust, although they weren't far off to start with. To reduce future electrical system frustration, I applied Caig DeOxit to the relays and installed a new battery. For the stumble, I replaced the air temperature sensor, TPS, and have run two containers of injection cleaner through the tank. The TPS made the largest improvement. I bought the PF3C from CA Cycleworks for about $90, which was much better then the almost $400 OEM part, and set it at 150mv with the left TB completely closed IAW the Guzzi manual and BradTheBikerBoy's write up. Intake boots for both ends of the TBs are on the way. Once I have both sets, I will remove the tank and replace the air filter, fuel filter, install the intake boots, and look for any other possible vacuum leaks. I changed the oil (no fiilter change yet) with Mobil1 20W50, but have ordered Agip 10W60 to use when I change the oil filter.
The stumble is almost completely gone and the engine idles very nicely now at about 1000-1100 rpm, but there is still a slight stumble from about 4000-5000 rpm under throttle openings of about 60% or more. By the mid-5k range, it is running normally again and pulls very nicely from that point on, and the motorcycle will cruise smoothly up to 80, which is the fastest I've gone with it. If throttle openings are less than 50%, the engine is smooth all the way through 6,000 rpm. I've been digging around here and elsewhere, and it sounds like it might be a fuel pressure regulator issue based on the bad mileage (20 mpg before the tps and plugs, high 20's after plugs and TPS) and smell of fuel after shutting the engine off. I've ordered a PC connector so I can check everything more throughly with guzzidiag, and I am hoping elimination of any vacuum leaks will eliminate the majority of the remaining stumble. I also want to check the coils.
This weekend I plan to change the final drive and transmission oil and flush the brake system.
Even with a few problems, I really like riding this thing. The feel, sound and handling are great, and I am amazed how affordable these motorcycles are right now.
Once I replace the mirrors and turn signals and do some more polishing, I'll post some before and after photos.
As I do more I will post it here, and if anyone has any advice, it will be greatly appreciated.
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Congratulations and welcome, these are great street motorcycles IMO, sounds like you're having fun and you have a handle on everything.
I don't measure fuel economy on anything I drive, and the Bassa has neither a working low fuel light or trip odometer. I try to fill up every 100 miles, and usually take 2.6 to 2.9 gallons, so you're not far off it sounds like. I have thought about trying to attack the fuel economy, but it just runs too well to screw with.
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Sounds like you're doing a great refurbishment. I get about 40 mpg with my Jackal.
Did you pack the head temp sensor with copper anti-sieze? Other than that, you might consider putting speed bleed nipples on the brakes. Hopefully, someone else has a link for you. Replace the electric petcock with a manual one?
Oh, and I set my valves at .006 and .008, I believe.
edited 'cause I need more coffee.
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I had the smell of fuel on my '02 EV which eventually turned out to be a leaking hose. The clamps holding the hose fittings to the fuel filter had, over time, cut through the hose. Fuel was dripping onto the engine. The hose had softened with age. Snipped off the ends and replaced the fittings and all good. But I really need to replace the hoses.
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Did you pack the head temp sensor with copper anti-sieze?
98 EV has a wonky temp sensor in the rocker cover, not in the head so don't pack anything there.
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:coffee:
98 EV has a wonky temp sensor in the rocker cover, not in the head so don't pack anything there.
Thanks!
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That fuel mileage is ridiculously low. You should easily get 40, even with crappy California gas. Something is telling the computer that your engine is cold or the air is very cold. Find and test those sensors.
Otherwise, the engine is normal but you are losing liquid fuel somewhere. The most likely place for direct fuel leakage would be the three short pieces of hose which connect from the fuel regulator through the "Y" splitter, to the two fuel injectors. Those hoses are notorious for leakage. Change them out to some quality fuel hose with specialized injection clamps. I use this:
http://www.guzzipower.com/FI-HoseReplace-Pat_H.html (http://www.guzzipower.com/FI-HoseReplace-Pat_H.html)
I would suggest that you finish all of your work with a little visit to Sean Fader at RTL moto in Santa Ana at:
https://www.yelp.com/biz/rtl-moto-santa-ana (https://www.yelp.com/biz/rtl-moto-santa-ana)
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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I would suggest that you finish all of your work with a little visit to Sean Fader at RTL moto in Santa Ana at:
https://www.yelp.com/biz/rtl-moto-santa-ana (https://www.yelp.com/biz/rtl-moto-santa-ana) Patrick Hayes Fremont CA
I second that, Sean made my Bassa a much happier machine. He's now working out of OC Motorcycles in Costa Mesa.
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You're in the right place. Congratulations, and enjoy!
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Congratulations! Those are excellent motorcycles.
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On the bell housing, under the right side throttle body, look for the flywheel position sensor. Take out the two screws and clean that sensor. It gets covered in clutch dust and acts all weird.
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My 98 had resistor leads and also resistor caps
Unscrew a cap and look for proper wire.
From memory measuring from the cap to chases should be ~8K Ohm on each side.
Yes at least 40 mpg once you get it sorted.
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Congrats!
I little work and you'll be good!!
Tom
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Thank you for the advice and encouragement!
I replaced the plug caps with NGK LB05F caps if I remember correctly, but I will check them. The new plug wires are regular copper core. Last week I cleaned off the crank position sensor. The new temp sensor is within the proper resistance values, so that is one less thing to cause an issue.
Tonight I removed the fuel tank to make replacing the intake rubbers easier, and I found a bunch of seeds on top of a really dirty air filter that looks to be an old K&N, so something made a home in the top of the airbox at one time. The intake rubber on the left head that mounts on the intake was dry rotted with a big split all the way through.
Also, the braided fuel line from the pump to the tank had bad dry rot, so I found an NOS one on ebay and am waiting for it to arrive. It had already been trimmed once, so there wasn't much left to work with. Also ordered a new fuel pressure regulator, and will check the breather hose tomorrow. I really don't want to remove the tank again anytime soon, so I am trying to replace anything that is easily accessible with the tank off that isn't too expensive and could relate to the stumble. With the seeds on top of the air cleaner, I am surprised how well it still runs. There were enough to fill probably 50% of the filter pleats.
By the time the parts are in and it is back together it will probably be early next week. Then I will sync the throttle bodies, and hopefully the fuel system will be where it needs to in order to be safe and reliable.
Patrick, thank you for the fuel hose link. I didnt see your reply until after I had already bought the big hose from tank to pump, but I will use the link you provided to source the y hose parts. I will take a look at the RTL moto site as soon as I post this reply.
The h-pipe appears to have small cracks so I will get that welded soon. I wanted to ride it to work the rest of the week, but I think this down time will be beneficial, and had I known about the seeds and extent of the intake rubber split, I wouldn't have been riding it. Even in it's current state, it is a lot of fun.
Thank you to.everyone again for the advice.
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Since my original post, the engine began stumbling again under load and was still getting mileage in the low 20 mpg range. I already had a new fuel filter that I hadn't installed, but figured the most likely culprit was the fuel pressure regulator. Multiple posts here had mentioned the strainer at the petcock could also be blocked up.
To eliminate as many likely variables in the fuel system as possible, I decided to replace the petcock/strainer, main fuel line, fuel pump, fuel filter, and fuel pressure regulator. The oem fuel press. regulator is no longer available. I thought I could adapt the later external style regulator from a 99-02 1100, but that turned into a hassle with parts availability. A post on this site said a PR-159 regulator would work, and overall, that is the simplest and cheapest solution. Prior to looking at the fuel system, I replaced all four intake rubbers and balanced the throttle bodies. One of the boots had a split over an inch long behind a clamp. I also removed the charcoal canisters which were blocked up and had about 5 feet of vacuum line that could infroduce vacuum leaks.
After installing the new fuel system parts, the stumble was completely gone and the engine pulled very nicely. The only remaining running problem was a slight low rpm bog or backfire just off idle. It wasn't a cold running issue; something seemed off from an ignition or valve timing standpoint, because under light throttle and load, the engine would backfire very lightly through the intake. I rechecked the valve clearances, which were good.
I had replaced the TPS previously and set it initially with a voltmeter, but reset it with guzzidiag once I got the proper cable. The setting on guzzidiag was either 1.37 or 1.57mv, with no increments in between. My voltmeter said the tps was baselined at .56mv, so I reset it to 149.6mv which is as close as I could get it to 150mv. Now that the TPS is back where it should be, the bog and backfire are completely gone and the engine runs really nicely. Gas mileage is up in the low 40s as well.
The last common item people seem to need to replace when they get an EV are relays, so I replaced all 6 with GEI relays. I had no electrical problems, but the relays are cheap preventative items.
Next I am going to focus on brakes and suspension, which basically just need routine and cosmetic maintenance. Overall the motorcycle handles and stops very well.
The more I work on and ride this motorcycle, the more I like it. Since getting the EV, I've ridden it over 1,000 miles, even in a less than perfect mechanical state. If this project keeps progressing as it has, I hope get to meet some of you at the San Diego Guzzi rally.
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I think you got the Guzzi bug.
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How many miles are on the engine? That sputtering under "light" throttle and overrun could indicate a worn timing chain or tensioner.
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I think you got the Guzzi bug.
I don't think there is a cure for it either. :thumb: :grin:
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FWIW: some bookmarks I have used for my 98.
http://www.armory.com/~marina/service.html
http://archive.guzzitech.com
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi.html
http://dpguzzi.com
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you seem to have solved the running issues.. I'll just note there is a fuel trim dial on the computer box. this trim dial can turn about 2-3 revolutions if you do adjust it try 1/2 turn either way then run for at least 10 minutes for CPU to set itself.
I think there are some directions in the Guzzi FI supplement (see thisoldtractor.com for the manual)
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At some point you'll want to replace the "S" shaped hose for the breather while the tank is off. Best to use a Guzzi part there, no suitable substitute .http://www.mgcycle.com/images/atrex/28157450.jpg
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For the breather hose I used 2 90deg plastic heater hose elbows and heater hose. I have only replaced so far the elbow section at the engine, still need to do the section under the tank. So far it works fine and looks decent. Not as cheap as I had hoped, but when the hose sections need replacing, the hose is cheap.
BTW this was on a '04, you may have the cheaper stock hose, my stock hose would have been about $30 or something like that.
Congrats again! Almost there!
Tom
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Enjoying this thread. I too just picked up a 98 V11 EV. It runs great but I don't think it was well maintained. So I'm going through everything now. I have a question, can the brake line that screws into the calipers be replaced with a banjo bolts set up? I want to get Stainless steel lines and possible go with a true double disk front brake. The little unit under the left swingarm that activates the rear brake with the front let is rusted beyond use. I don't think it is functioning.
Thanks,
Ed
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my 850-t has a ! ev1100 motor. i love the motor and i wish id had more money or id not missed out on last summers riding!
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Enjoying this thread. I too just picked up a 98 V11 EV. It runs great but I don't think it was well maintained. So I'm going through everything now. I have a question, can the brake line that screws into the calipers be replaced with a banjo bolts set up? I want to get Stainless steel lines and possible go with a true double disk front brake. The little unit under the left swingarm that activates the rear brake with the front let is rusted beyond use. I don't think it is functioning.
Thanks,
Ed
Welcome!
Yes, you can use banjos/bolts instead of the direct screw-in fitting. Standard 10mm brake stuff.
That thingy under the swing arm isn't the proportioning valve. The proportioning valve should be near the left shock/left sidecover area. Follow the line in that direction and you'll find it. What you're looking at is the "jack valve". This trims rear brake when it senses the swing arm jacking upwards. Don't mess with the valve. That spring and plunger stuff is calibrated at the factory. Messing with it will change its operation, possibly in a negative manner, if you know what I mean. If the lever is moving and the rear brake works, you can assume the valve is also working.
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Congratulations, great choice!
Personally, I think the various Californias series bikes between '98-02 were the best Guzzi ever. Real workhorses, exotics that can be run a shoestring too. In 20 years from now they'll be worth more than a Ducati bevel desmo :grin:
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Welcome!
Yes, you can use banjos/bolts instead of the direct screw-in fitting. Standard 10mm brake stuff.
That thingy under the swing arm isn't the proportioning valve. The proportioning valve should be near the left shock/left sidecover area. Follow the line in that direction and you'll find it. What you're looking at is the "jack valve". This trims rear brake when it senses the swing arm jacking upwards. Don't mess with the valve. That spring and plunger stuff is calibrated at the factory. Messing with it will change its operation, possibly in a negative manner, if you know what I mean. If the lever is moving and the rear brake works, you can assume the valve is also working.
if yours is not working I "might" have one you can have for free.
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if yours is not working I "might" have one you can have for free.
The thing is so rusty that I can't see it being functional. The little rod is rusted away. If you have a spare I could use it. Thanks
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How many miles are on the engine? That sputtering under "light" throttle and overrun could indicate a worn timing chain or tensioner.
It just turned 28,000 miles. I wouldn't normally have faith in that number given the tendency for speedometer failure in this generation of Californias, but I bought it from the original owner and he had decent maintenance records with no unexplainable gaps in time/mileage. For now, the sputtering issue is gone and fueling is very smooth, but I will keep the worn tensioner or chain in mind next time it exhibits low-speed erratic behavior. Is there any nylon in/on the cam or crank gears? I have had several 425/472/500 engined Cadillacs with nylon-lined factory cam gear teeth, and when that lining breaks down, it can jump time and block the sump, not to mention cause various running problems. I didn't know the 1100 had a cam chain tensioner; I want to learn more about that.
FWIW: some bookmarks I have used for my 98.
http://www.armory.com/~marina/service.html
http://archive.guzzitech.com
http://www.thisoldtractor.com/moto_guzzi.html
http://dpguzzi.com
Thank you for the links. I will save them to my favorites and go through them.
Enjoying this thread. I too just picked up a 98 V11 EV. It runs great but I don't think it was well maintained. So I'm going through everything now. I have a question, can the brake line that screws into the calipers be replaced with a banjo bolts set up? I want to get Stainless steel lines and possible go with a true double disk front brake. The little unit under the left swingarm that activates the rear brake with the front let is rusted beyond use. I don't think it is functioning.
Thanks,
Ed
What color/mileage is yours? I've considered "delinking" the brakes, but mine work well right now so I've left them alone. My left rotor is slightly warped, so using the brake pedal gives an annoying pulsation. I found a couple good used rotors, so when I have the front apart, I'll replace it. The right rotor is good, so there is no pulsing with the brake lever. I'd also like to do braided lines eventually.
At some point you'll want to replace the "S" shaped hose for the breather while the tank is off. Best to use a Guzzi part there, no suitable substitute .http://www.mgcycle.com/images/atrex/28157450.jpg
You are right; I already had to replace the breather hose. It had about 20-30 small cracks, and really let me know when I had overfilled the crankase by I'm guessing 1/4 to 1/2 of a quart. Now that I've replaced the hose, there are no more leaks that I can see.
you seem to have solved the running issues.. I'll just note there is a fuel trim dial on the computer box. this trim dial can turn about 2-3 revolutions if you do adjust it try 1/2 turn either way then run for at least 10 minutes for CPU to set itself.
I think there are some directions in the Guzzi FI supplement (see thisoldtractor.com for the manual)
I've considered adjusting the fuel trim and may in the future, but for now have decided to leave it alone. Thank you for letting me know about the 10 minute set time. I haven't read that before, and not having that piece of information would make adjustment very frustrating.
Congratulations, great choice!
Personally, I think the various Californias series bikes between '98-02 were the best Guzzi ever. Real workhorses, exotics that can be run a shoestring too. In 20 years from now they'll be worth more than a Ducati bevel desmo :grin:
They are really underappreciated, but that's ok with me. You are right about the shoestring budget part. If anything seems expensive, like an OEM TPS or fuel pump, the aftermarket has affordable alternatives. Although the factory fuel pressure regulator is no longer easy to find, I like the serviceability of the external pump fuel system as well as the rest of the motorcycle. I wish my '08 KTM Super Duke R was as easy and affordable to work on. Aside from the very good overall performance of the 1100 California, one of the things I like most is how easy periodic maintenance is.
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Don't forget to check the tank moat drain, if that plugs up it will send any rain or wash water into the tank to form rust.
Dribble some light oil in there once in a while, its a pigtail tube that extends out the bottom of the tank.
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" and had I known about the seeds and extent of the intake rubber split, I wouldn't have been riding it. Even in it's current state, it is a lot of fun. "
It would be even more fun if you had planted those seeds - there could be some forensic clues there -
:grin: :grin: :grin:
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My left rotor is slightly warped, so using the brake pedal gives an annoying pulsation. I found a couple good used rotors, so when I have the front apart, I'll replace it. The right rotor is good, so there is no pulsing with the brake lever.
Our man Norman has the same problem. I told him it was probably pad build up on the left side from too gentle braking. Make a few panic stops with the pedal..
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Don't forget to post up some pics! :thumb:
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Chuck -- something to consider -- I have a pulsation in a front floating rotor, too. The problem is not my rotor. I freed up the buttons and checked the runout -- after tapping the rotor into index a dial indicator doesn't show any warped spot. After looking into it further I found that I have a sticky caliper puck and it's making the pads grab the rotor unevenly and cockeyed. When I lever it loose the pulsation goes away for a few brake cycles. Then it sticks again and the lever throbs. For me the fix will be new caliper piston seals.
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For me the fix will be new caliper piston seals.
You may be on to something, David.. I proved to myself many years ago with a dial indicator that it *wasn't* a warped rotor, though.
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You might want to check your brake lines if the originals are still on there. I think you can buy sets of braided lines, and that would be the way to go.
As far as gas leaks, I had a bad banjo bolt on the fuel filter. Drove me nuts trying to figure out what was wrong. I must have taken the tank off half a dozen times.
Rich
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I had a '98 EV. Sold it with 77k on the odometer. Always enjoyed the bike but ran out of room in the garage and somebody had to go.
As for the timing chain, I never even looked at mine. I think they have spring tensioners. Should not be an issue at your low mileage.
Two things that really woke up the motor are Dunstall replica mufflers (cheap) and Todd Egan's modified Power Commander to take full advantage of the intake and exhaust mods.
The PC is NLA but worth jumping on if you ever come across one.
Pete
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I got around to removing the linked front and rear brakes on my 98 EV. I got a huge master cylinder off a Kawi ZX10 and stainless front lines. A normal stop just needs one finger, two fingers hauls in down really fast. I also replaced all fuel and oil lines. I've pretty much gone through every system. It runs great. I'm really enjoying this machine.
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I tried braking mine HARD multiple times at freeway speeds - I had traffic behind me fall back a quarter mile they were so confused - it was a beautiful thing to see in the mirror. I know I heated the discs good. No change ....
I wonder what is less work / cheaper (snaps red suspenders) - a gourmet floating disc or a caliper rebuild.
Also [aaron.hudacky] and I are in comms on the side channel - his fuel economy was solved by a fuel pressure regulator.
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So let's replace fuel pressure regulators. Who has one for the best price? I replaced my fuel pump and it's much more quiet. And I installed a manual petcock.
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I tried braking mine HARD multiple times at freeway speeds - I had traffic behind me fall back a quarter mile they were so confused - it was a beautiful thing to see in the mirror. I know I heated the discs good. No change ....
I wonder what is less work / cheaper (snaps red suspenders) - a gourmet floating disc or a caliper rebuild.
Also [aaron.hudacky] and I are in comms on the side channel - his fuel economy was solved by a fuel pressure regulator.
Definitely a caliper rebuild is easier and less expensive, if you can get the kit. If the pistons are in good shape all you need are the seals. The hardest part is getting the pistons out.
Also, did Aaron figure out what was bad about his fuel regulator? Just curious.
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Definitely a caliper rebuild is easier and less expensive, if you can get the kit. If the pistons are in good shape all you need are the seals. The hardest part is getting the pistons out.
Also, did Aaron figure out what was bad about his fuel regulator? Just curious.
I'm not sure what failed inside the old regulator, but the garage smelled like fuel after the motorcycle sat for a night and mileage was in the low 20's. Now riding the same, I average in the mid 40's and it doesn't smell up the place. I used a generic PR149 someone else recommended on this site because I couldn't find an original fuel pressure regulator.
Out of precaution, I also replaced the fuel pump, and changed the fuel filter because it was due by mileage. I replaced both coils and the voltage regulator when I started getting random missing that got progressively worse as I continued to ride. The missing went away after putting on the new parts, and the charge light goes out as skkn as the engine starts; before, it would glow slightly until about 12-1400 rpm indicated.
It took some work, but it seems pretty well sorted now. My main goal was to address everything that people here have found are common problems so it won't leave me stranded. Things still go wrong as I would expect with any machine pushing 20 years. Last week, it suddenly started leaking badly from the left fork, so I replaced the seals. This week, the trip odometer stopped working, and I use that for determining range, so I didn't want to let it go. That meant today was speedo disassembly day; I cleaned and oiled the trip odo with Labelle gear oil, I replaced the gear drive where the cable goes into the speedo, and I repainted the needles in the tach and speedo black since they had faded to white. I considered doing them in the original orange or a darker red, but black reads really well on white and I like how it looks. Eventually I am going to install Speedhut gauges, but for now these Veglias are working properly. I installed the needle to indicate about 4 mph slower than before, and tonight when I passed a radar sign, it said 35 and so did my speedo. Still need to compare it to GPS to see how accurate it is at higher speeds.
I bought it thinking it would be fun to ride occasionally and work on. Instead, I ended up loving it and have ridden over 6,000 miles in the not quite four months I've owned it. Next will be tires. Below are a few photos as it is now.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/etw5Ub/20171202_173716.jpg) (http://ibb.co/etw5Ub)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gxAohw/20171125_171121.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gxAohw)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/fGMiFG/20171125_170527.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fGMiFG)
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Aaron,
Might I suggest new wheel bearings when you do the tires, they are just standard bearings that most multi make shops will have for about $5
I was let down by a front bearing that spit out the balls although I was able to ride home with just one bearing.
Roy
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Aaron,
Might I suggest new wheel bearings when you do the tires, they are just standard bearings that most multi make shops will have for about $5
I was let down by a front bearing that spit out the balls although I was able to ride home with just one bearing.
Roy
Roy,
Thank you for the recommendation... I will do that. Just repacking the bearings was my original intent, but might as well replace while it is apart if it is that affordable.
I have a new problem. Had to cancel a ride to Tucson because the engine keeps stumbling after it has been running for about 5-10 minutes. It runs fine when cold, and it still has plenty of power, but it is a very slight stumble that is really noticeable when you have about 15-20% throttle applied. It also does it under heavier throttle, but the engine has no idling issues, and it pulls very nicely up to 7k rpm. So far I've replaced and set the TPS with a voltmeter, replaced plug wires, boots and plugs (although it is time to do plugs again), adjusted the valves (also time for those again), synchronized the TBs, replaced the fuel pump, pressure regulator, fuel filter, petcock/strainer assembly, air filter, intake rubber boots on both sides of the throttle body, both coils, voltage regulator, all relays and fuses and used DeOxit when doing those, disconnected the side stand switch, installed a new battery, and cleaned any grounds I could find.
The electric petcock was disconnected when I bought it, but I've read that circuit can cause problems if remaining wires are crimped. I hooked my heated grips up to the old petcock fuse opening in the fuse block, and the power supply there is constant, so I don't think damaged wires in that circuit are a problem.
The engine burns no oil over 3,000 mile intervals, and I don't think it is anything internal. I suspect maybe a plug is going bad or corrosion at a connection I haven't cleaned yet is getting worse, but I am not sure where to look at this point; will start at the plugs. I've dug around this site quite a bit and I have tried to do almost every common recommendation I've seen for a miss/stumble type of problem. Good thing is the problem started presenting once every few hundred miles or so about 2.5 months ago but has started to get progressively worse rapidly, so once it is fixed, it will be apparent relatively quickly.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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Were you using the heated grips when you got the stumble? Be prepared to turn them off to see if it improves.
I'm just wondering if the heated grips are pulling down the Voltage making the ECU relay drop out, if there's a high resistance like a dirty ignition switch, fault relay contact or stand switch the Heated grips could be turning on pulling the Voltage down until the ECU resets.
I can see why you thought the petcock fuse is a good supply for the heaters but I would use it to pick up a relay and use the contact to feed the grips from a fuse direct rom the battery.
I was going to post a schematic here but I think its is wrong for the 98 EV
I will send you a PM
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Clean the flywheel and cam position sensors.
I forget if this one has the temp sensor in the valve cover or in the head. That could also be a problem.
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I would stick with 20w50w oil for a 98 ev
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Were you using the heated grips when you got the stumble? Be prepared to turn them off to see if it improves.
I'm just wondering if the heated grips are pulling down the Voltage making the ECU relay drop out, if there's a high resistance like a dirty ignition switch, fault relay contact or stand switch the Heated grips could be turning on pulling the Voltage down until the ECU resets.
I can see why you thought the petcock fuse is a good supply for the heaters but I would use it to pick up a relay and use the contact to feed the grips from a fuse direct rom the battery.
I was going to post a schematic here but I think its is wrong for the 98 EV
I will send you a PM
Roy,
The problem began about a month ago and didn't seem to worsen since installing the grips. It gets more pronounced after the engine has been running about 5 minutes. I suspect the TPS is going bad again, but I haven't checked with my voltmeter yet. I say that because like when I bought it, it stumbles where I always hold the throttle, but under full throttle it runs really well and revs to 7500 rpm with no miss or power loss. It also always starts and doesn't have any other symptoms of electrical issues, but where I commonly keep the throttle it starts running rough. The current TPS is 3 months old and probably has about 6,000 miles, so I didn't initially suspect it could have failed again. I will reply to you via email and appreciate any input that could help make the electrical system more reliable. Clean the flywheel and cam position sensors.
I forget if this one has the temp sensor in the valve cover or in the head. That could also be a problem.
Rodekyll,
I checked the cam position sensor on the flywheel yesterday, and it had a little oil on it from a prior breather hose leak, so I wiped it clean. I have not pulled the forward one, but it has a slight weep from that sensor so I will pull it and check it out. This year/model does have the temp. sensor in the valve cover, and I replaced it, but I will check the resistance again. I have a spare if it fails. One thing that I haven't checked is what appears to be an air temp sensor in the intake tract on the right side of the frame under the tank. I have looked at several exploded views but haven't seen the sensor illustrated in that location. It looks just like the valve cover sensor, so I will pull it and check it as well.
I would stick with 20w50w oil for a 98 ev
Chet,
I just noticed the shop manual I have that has an 04/2002 print date says to use that weight. I will look into it and might give it a shot. It doesn't seem to use any of the 10/60, and I had seen that weight recommended in Guzziology for solid lifter 1100s and it was also recommended by my dealer, but 20/50 is clearly listed in the version of the FSM I have.
Thanks to all of you for your advice.
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When you pull the two timing sensors, be aware that the airgap space below the sensor is critical. You will likely find spacing washers and an o-ring seal on the front sensor. Make sure to set that space dimension correctly. I doubt your problem is caused by either of these timing sensors since your symptoms seem to be time/temperature related.
Maybe you can find someone with the GuzziDiag software which will read each sensor output in situ.
Oil on the flywheel sensor isn't an issue (at least not for the sensor). Tiny metal chips or fuzz from the wearing ring gear are the cause for intermittent reporting issue for that sensor. It doesn't seem that you found any issue under that one.
What spark plugs are you using?
Do you recall what setting you used for the throttle body air bypass screws?
It really seems that you have a proper mixture for cold starting but that it does not lean out with any time/temp change. The temp sensors and throttle body settings do seem suspect.
Greg Bender has wiring diagrams on his website, but none of them precisely match my two 98 EVs. It seems that the my bikes have a mixture of 98EV wiring and earlier 1100i wiring. Just have both available and be aware of the issue.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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It looks as if you are trying your best to rid it of any possible gremlins. Extra points for that.. :thumb:
The *first* thing I check with any miss is plugs. I have a spark plug tester, and have seen new out of the box plugs fail under pressure. (they happened to be Champion, in case anyone cares)
After that, I would ohm the caps/wire/coils.
I see you have already taken care of vacuum leaks, which was my original thought.
One thing that I didn't see in your gremlin proofing is to add a dedicated ground wire from the regulator to an engine case bolt. It has nothing to do with your current problem, but will kill one gremlin dead. :smiley:
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Patrick and Chuck, thank you for your advice.
The front timing sensor is weeping, so when I fix that, I will make sure to pay attention to the gap.
Plugs are NGK BPR6ES; I replaced them tonight since I am close to the 6,000 mile interval, along with the plug wire resistor covers (I used NGK LB05F). The bypass screws are 1 turn out each side.
Chuck, I need to add that additional ground. I bought the strap and will likely go from the regulator to the front of the engine.
I found that the TPS is likely the problem this evening and replaced it again after about 6,000 miles and 3.5 months. To check it, I used a voltmeter to pin 17 in the ECU (my motorcycle has a P8). The first thing that got my attention was that the base setting with the linkage disconnected and left TB screw backed all the way out was 154mv when I last set it. Tonight, it was 125mv.
I recently watched Chris Kelly's video showing how he tests the PC3F TPS, and noticed the passing sensors have a smooth voltage increase with the exception of a "knee" about halfway through the sensor's total sweep. A bad sensor would have excursions that could be a volt or more, but they always started and ended at the specified output. I figured my TPS would exhibit these excursions, and I was surprised when after the first throttle sweep I saw nothing drastic. I did about 5 full sweeps, and finally started noticing at around 3400mv there was a slight dip of about 50-60mv even though I was continuously increasing throttle. This dip repeated itself in the 3550-3600mv range, and could be repeated reliably. What this showed me is that the degradation doesn't have to be much at all numerically to be perceptible; these drops caused bucking in the 3900-4200 rpm range in 5th at about 80, and they also caused problems when the engine was at lower throttle settings. There could have been less noticeable dips lower in the sensor sweep, but I did not see them. It should be noted I did these checks on a cold engine; the dips may have been more pronounced as the sensor warmed up and resistance increased in the mv drop areas.
I replaced the TPS and reset it to 149.9mv, and after a 20 mile ride at different speeds and settings and allowing the engine the chance to get warm by idling in traffic, it runs really well again.
In this thread: http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=73658.0;nowap , Bill Havens had mentioned the throttle body shaft leaking at the lower pivot and allowing fuel to get into the TPS. Mine didn't have raw fuel, but a dark oily accumulation that I am pretty sure is the result of a leaking throttle body shaft, and probably contributed to the accelerated TPS wear. It could have been from before I replaced the fuel pressure regulator and it was dumping a lot more fuel than the engine needed, but that is probably wishful thinking. I will disassemble the old TPS and post here what I find. Bill discussed replacing the shaft seals with viton seals on CA Cyclework's site, so I will likely do that soon; otherwise, I think a TPS would need to be part of my 6,000 mile maintenance routine, and I don't want to blow $90 on new sensors at that interval.
I'm still going to take everyone's advice and go through the electrical system to make sure I don't allow any easily preventable issues to pop up. I want to thank everyone, especially Kiwi Roy, for their help with this phase of things I'm learning about the EV.
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I would stick with 20w50w oil for a 98 ev
This .
For those of you who don't know , Chet is a pro , and an all around decent bloke :laugh:
Dusty
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Patrick and Chuck, thank you for your advice.
[snippity]
Plugs are NGK BPR6ES; I replaced them tonight since I am close to the 6,000 mile interval, along with the plug wire resistor covers (I used NGK LB05F).
[snip]
That could be your problem right there -- or not. It throws up a flag for me that both that plug and cap are resistor types. I'll go out on a limb and guess that you've got resistor wire, too (that will make you check -- it will either be 0-ish ohms or ~5k ohms).
There are three places to add resistance to the circuit -- resistor wire, resistor cap, or resistor plug. Choose one.
The NGK non-resistor parts are BP6ES for the plug and (if this is the correct box in my hand) LZFH for the cap.
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Spark Plugs. Everyone has a favorite. I've been using these for years in numerous Guzzi. http://www.guzzipower.com/Sparkplug-pehayes.html (http://www.guzzipower.com/Sparkplug-pehayes.html)
BTW, our two 98 EVs came with solid core spark secondary wires. No longer for sale within California!
If you have fuel draining down into the TPS, it evaporates and leaves a residue of various fuel additives. This could be the source of your low-mileage TPS glitch issues. It is possible to clean the TPS. It requires drilling a small hole and injecting electronics tuner cleaner to dissolve and wash away the contaminants. I've done it to restore several. Somewhere I have a picture showing the exact spot to drill but I can't find it right now. I may have an old one with a drilled hole. I'll try to find that and photo. I suggest you try this option before disassembling the old one or splurging for a new one.
Hah! Couldn't find it in my pictures, but a quick Google search found this: http://s3.postimg.org/soc076o4/tpshole.jpg (http://s3.postimg.org/soc076o4/tpshole.jpg) That's my picture. See the little white dot? Drill 1/16" hole there and spray liberally with a good electronics cleaner and follow with some gentle compressed air and drying time.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
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I brought up the resistor thing a while back. My '04 has both resistor plugs and plug wires from the factory. It works, so I'm not going to mess with it. On the wires, I didn't check if the cap or the wire had the resistor. I think only the cap??
From the post about this, it does appear that only the plug or the cap should have the resistor.
Tom
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I brought up the resistor thing a while back. My '04 has both resistor plugs and plug wires from the factory. It works, so I'm not going to mess with it. On the wires, I didn't check if the cap or the wire had the resistor. I think only the cap??
From the post about this, it does appear that only the plug or the cap should have the resistor.
Tom
When it starts to miss on one cylinder take your ohmmeter and measure the resistance from plug cap to chassis on each side. I found one side open circuit on mine.
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That could be your problem right there -- or not. It throws up a flag for me that both that plug and cap are resistor types. I'll go out on a limb and guess that you've got resistor wire, too (that will make you check -- it will either be 0-ish ohms or ~5k ohms).
There are three places to add resistance to the circuit -- resistor wire, resistor cap, or resistor plug. Choose one.
The NGK non-resistor parts are BP6ES for the plug and (if this is the correct box in my hand) LZFH for the cap.
Thank you for pointing that problem out. I knew not to get both resistor wire and caps, but I didn't pay attention to the plugs. I'll fix that tomorrow. This weekend is a long ride, and knowing that is wrong will bug me constantly. Thank you for the NGK non-resistor part number. Spark Plugs. Everyone has a favorite. I've been using these for years in numerous Guzzi. http://www.guzzipower.com/Sparkplug-pehayes.html (http://www.guzzipower.com/Sparkplug-pehayes.html)
BTW, our two 98 EVs came with solid core spark secondary wires. No longer for sale within California!
If you have fuel draining down into the TPS, it evaporates and leaves a residue of various fuel additives. This could be the source of your low-mileage TPS glitch issues. It is possible to clean the TPS. It requires drilling a small hole and injecting electronics tuner cleaner to dissolve and wash away the contaminants. I've done it to restore several. Somewhere I have a picture showing the exact spot to drill but I can't find it right now. I may have an old one with a drilled hole. I'll try to find that and photo. I suggest you try this option before disassembling the old one or splurging for a new one.
Hah! Couldn't find it in my pictures, but a quick Google search found this: http://s3.postimg.org/soc076o4/tpshole.jpg (http://s3.postimg.org/soc076o4/tpshole.jpg) That's my picture. See the little white dot? Drill 1/16" hole there and spray liberally with a good electronics cleaner and follow with some gentle compressed air and drying time.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA
The TPS info is very helpful; I will give that a shot on the TPS I just removed. I think the fuel residue is definitely what caused the problem.
I'll take a look at the Bosch Platinum plugs. Do you use a longer (than 6,000 miles) replacement interval with them?
I see you have a lot of experience with EVs; how many miles do your front wheel bearings last, and do you use OEM replacements or another supplier?
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I'll take a look at the Bosch Platinum plugs. Do you use a longer (than 6,000 miles) replacement interval with them?
I see you have a lot of experience with EVs; how many miles do your front wheel bearings last, and do you use OEM replacements or another supplier?
Hah! I switched to these plugs many years ago. I had an old beater Convert that was the garage orphan. Never got any maintenance. Too busy working on all the other Guzzis. The Convert was the most reliable starting and running bike I'd ever owned. Didn't matter what you did with the choke or the throttle. It just started. One day I decided to see what the heck plugs were in it from the previous owner. THESE! I've converted my other Guzzis to this same plug. Both of our bikes were purchased new. Original plugs changed to these as follows: mine at 8500, 26500, 44000, 62000, 88000, now at 105K and going strong; Regina's 7800, 31500, 55800, now at 95K and going strong. You want to change at 6K????? The only ignition problem I've had was my 87 SPII. Changed plugs there several times before discovering that the problem was a faulty coil. Now happy on new coils and old plugs.
Both of our EV's are near 100K. Mine a little over and Regina's a little under. Both have the stock original wheel bearings. Probably should start thinking about a pre-emptive change.
Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA