Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Lee Davis on September 04, 2017, 05:53:49 PM
-
I often hear of Moto Guzzis with new "Nikasil" cylinders, and although I have posted this on this forum before, I have a need to do it again. Nikasil was developed by Mahle, the German parts supplier in 1967. The name comes from Nickel-Silicon-Carbide. When a cylinder wall wears with Nikasil, the nickel wears, leaving the silicon, which is extremely long wearing. Typically, the cylinder walls don't need to be honed when re-ringing. Porsche started using Nikasil in 1970 or so, and it is still used on the new 911s. But the originator of silicon based coatings was actually "Alusil" (aluminum-silicon), developed in 1927 by Kolbenschmidt, the other large piston/cylinder manufacturer in Germany. Alusil was used in Porsche (928), Audi and BMW engines beginning in 1990. Alusil was actually used in some German aircraft during WW2. Nigusil is a patented coating that was developed by Moto Guzzi in 1979 for the V35, V50 and later the 850T4, and used since. It got around the problems of the old chrome plated cylinders. Maserati even started using Nigusil, and still does. All three coatings allow for tighter tolerances, and cooler running. New patents are good for 20 years, normally, so I am always intrigued with how Moto Guzzi came up with a new process, that must have been very close to the earlier Nikasil, yet was granted a patent. I see a lot of Guzzis advertised with new "Nikasil" cylinders… which is technically incorrect… Nigusil is the correct, and very Italian, term. Leave it to the Italians to one-up the Germans.
-
You forgot Gilnisil. "Splitting hairs". Same basic materials and processes, different names.
From MG Cycle:
Each Gilardoni "set" includes 1 new Gilnisil (Nikasil, Nigusil) plated cylinder, 1 new piston, 1 set of rings, 1 wrist pin, and 2 wrist pin circlips. One set is shown in each photo. Two "sets" are required to complete an engine.
So, if someone has replaced the originals with Gilardoni cylinder kits, then "Nigusil" is as incorrect as "Nikasil", it should be "Gilnisil".
-
:grin: :thumb:
-
Where's my laphroiag scotch? This might get good..🥃
-
All I know is Moto Guzzi motorcycles had Nikasil (or whatever you want to call it) before BMW motorcycles had it in 1981 on some Le Mans II cylinders. I figure the different names between Nikasil /Nigusil is depending which country you heard it from. Like Aluminum (US)/ Aluminium (Canada, UK). So let's split hairs. :rolleyes:
-
Sir Humphrey Davy named the metal "Aluminium" so that is the proper name.
-
You forgot Gilnisil. "Splitting hairs". Same basic materials and processes, different names.
From MG Cycle:
Each Gilardoni "set" includes 1 new Gilnisil (Nikasil, Nigusil) plated cylinder, 1 new piston, 1 set of rings, 1 wrist pin, and 2 wrist pin circlips. One set is shown in each photo. Two "sets" are required to complete an engine.
So, if someone has replaced the originals with Gilardoni cylinder kits, then "Nigusil" is as incorrect as "Nikasil", it should be "Gilnisil".
I believe I saw a Gilardoni truck leaving the Guzzi factory when I visited. I think they now produce the Guzzi cylinders, while Guzzi used to do this in-house. Does this mean all newer Guzzis are equipped with Gilnisil? The mind boggles.
-
Sir Humphrey Davy named the metal "Aluminium" so that is the proper name.
In 1808 Sir Humphry Davy, the British chemist who discovered the metal, named it �alumium.� With just one �i� and an �ium� ending, it straddled the two competing versions we have today.
Four years later, however, Davy changed his mind and gave the metal the name �aluminum� (yup, the one-�i� American version). In his book Elements of Chemical Philosophy, published in 1812, Davy wrote, �As yet Aluminum has not been obtained in a perfectly free state. �
The first person to produce it was Hans Christian Oersted at Copenhagen, Denmark, in 1825, and he did it by heating aluminum chloride with potassium. Even so, his sample was impure. It fell to the German chemist Friedrich W�hler to perfect the method in 1827, and obtain pure aluminum for the first time by using sodium instead of potassium.
So by Davy changed his mind and couldn't find it in a "free state". It took a Dane and a German to actually make it.
But later that same year other scientists decided “aluminum” didn’t sound sufficiently Latin, so they began calling it “aluminium.” Here’s a quote from the Quarterly Review: “Aluminium, for so we shall take the liberty of writing the word, in preference to aluminum, which has a less classical sound.”
So the reality is it didn't sound formal enough for the King's English.
https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2008/06/aluminum-vs-aluminium.html
-
The Brits have always done things differently. Of course, they drive on the other side of the road... but their propellers on aircraft turn the opposite direction from the US standard, and this translates to the Commonwealth as well... toilets in Australia whirlpool the opposite direction from US toilets, but I am unsure if this was a conscious decision on their part. I have sailed a boat up the English Channel to the Thames, and the buoyage system is opposite from the US. In the US, you learn the phrase "red, right, returning", when headed up a river. This does you no good in the British Isles, where you must say "red, right, reaving". British bikes were for many years right shift, one down three up. The Italians, being contrary to the Brits changed this right side shifting to one up, three down. But I have a very late Moto Guzzi 850 that is left shift, one down, 4 up. They finally saw the light, and called it "California". Now, as for toilets in the British Isles, I don't know which way they spin, but I figure that if the British could go contrary to nature and the spin of the earth, they would. Would somebody check on that for me?
-
In Japan they drive on the left side of the road like the Brits. :huh: Every time I wanted to walk across an intersection there I'd be looking for traffic coming from the wrong direction! Doh !
-
The last time I was in England their toilets swirled in the same direction as the one in my house in Michigan. But maybe that's because I'm a troll not a yooper.
-
Yeah... you have to be careful when walking. On the sidewalks of London they have messages painted on the sidewalks at corners: "Look this way", with a large red arrow. Sadly, a fair number of Gringo tourists have met their demise while crossing streets. I rented a car in London one time and took a drive up north, and it was the scariest thing I think I have ever done. Driving on the other side was easy enough to learn, but the tough part was shifting the manual transmission with the left hand... it was confounding. Got into a multiple circus (roundabout) at one point and almost lost it all. When I rented a car and took a ferry across to Dublin and on through Ireland I made sure that the car was an automatic. Oddly enough, I can hop on an old British bike, or an early Moto Guzzi, or a new one, and I hardly have to think. I rode a 1949 Harley FL, the type with the gear shift handle on the left side of the tank with the foot clutch, and had no trouble at all. Does that mean that I was meant for motorcycles? Not bad for a Gringo (or a Haoli).
-
I figure the different names between Nikasil /Nigusil is depending which country you heard it from. Like Aluminum (US)/ Aluminium (Canada, UK). So let's split hairs. :rolleyes:
Nope, lets not, the OP had it right...and this quote from Wikipedia explains it perfectly.
Nigusil is a patented metal alloy created by Moto Guzzi for motorcycle cylinder liners. The name is an acronym for Nickel-Guzzi-Silicon.
Moto Guzzi, having successfully created the first engine with a chromed cylinder lining, continued research to find a material that could replace chrome. The research culminated with Nigusil, a nickel-silicon alloy applied to the cylinder through special procedures. This innovation allowed lower friction coefficient in the engine, significantly lower levels of mechanical parts wear, and considerable savings of lubricant. Treatment of cylinders through Nigusil was also used by many manufacturers, Maserati among them, and generally on racing engines.
Nigusil was introduced in 1979 on the 350 cc V35, then the V50 and 850T4. It was with the higher performance 850 cc 850 Le Mans II model where it really made its mark. From engine 80390 (in Europe) in mid-1980, the Nigusil-plated bores introduced with the second series of the II engine allowed the use of lighter pistons and rings with closer tolerances. These ran cooler than the earlier engine, giving more consistent tolerances and reducing the engine's previously high oil consumption.[1] Nigusil is often confused with Nikasil and some texts use the term interchangeably.[2]
References [1] & [2] Falloon, Ian (2007). The Moto Guzzi Sport & Le Mans Bible. Veloce Publishing. p. 79. ISBN 184584064X.
Walker, Mick (1999). Moto Guzzi Twins Restoration. MotorBooks International. pp. 44–46. ISBN 1610590856.
-
Still the same basic processes and materials used. "A rose by any other name..."
-
In Japan they drive on the left side of the road like the Brits. :huh: Every time I wanted to walk across an intersection there I'd be looking for traffic coming from the wrong direction! Doh !
I did the same thing in Barbados. :shocked:
-
Nope, lets not, the OP had it right...and this quote from Wikipedia explains it perfectly.
Nigusil is a patented metal alloy created by Moto Guzzi for motorcycle cylinder liners. The name is an acronym for Nickel-Guzzi-Silicon.
Moto Guzzi, having successfully created the first engine with a chromed cylinder lining, continued research to find a material that could replace chrome. The research culminated with Nigusil, a nickel-silicon alloy applied to the cylinder through special procedures. This innovation allowed lower friction coefficient in the engine, significantly lower levels of mechanical parts wear, and considerable savings of lubricant. Treatment of cylinders through Nigusil was also used by many manufacturers, Maserati among them, and generally on racing engines.
Nigusil was introduced in 1979 on the 350 cc V35, then the V50 and 850T4. It was with the higher performance 850 cc 850 Le Mans II model where it really made its mark. From engine 80390 (in Europe) in mid-1980, the Nigusil-plated bores introduced with the second series of the II engine allowed the use of lighter pistons and rings with closer tolerances. These ran cooler than the earlier engine, giving more consistent tolerances and reducing the engine's previously high oil consumption.[1] Nigusil is often confused with Nikasil and some texts use the term interchangeably.[2]
References [1] & [2] Falloon, Ian (2007). The Moto Guzzi Sport & Le Mans Bible. Veloce Publishing. p. 79. ISBN 184584064X.
Walker, Mick (1999). Moto Guzzi Twins Restoration. MotorBooks International. pp. 44–46. ISBN 1610590856.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vaFp8aYkHNA
Jeff Slavens seems a knowledgeable guy - so thought I’d post this for further advice.
Unsure whether it’s actually beneficial to lightly hone bores now when changing pistons.
What’s correct approach on Nikasil - Nigusil?
-
If it looks the same, it is the same
Har.har. :laugh:
-
Canadians do NOT pronounce aluminum the same as the Brits . Peter
-
its AL U MIN I UM
-
There’s just something about iron cylinders that I trust. I know they are antiquated but 949 big block jugs seem so approachable. That being said, I’m happy with my original v7 Sport cylinders freshly nikasil’d by Millenium.
(https://i.ibb.co/PCkys58/E9951300-C6-BD-4-E13-BD42-9-CD021896-D2-D.jpg) (https://ibb.co/PCkys58)
-
In Japan they drive on the left side of the road like the Brits. :huh: Every time I wanted to walk across an intersection there I'd be looking for traffic coming from the wrong direction! Doh !
Many, many yeers ago I lived in Tokyo for 1.5 years. I missed driving, so I investigated buying a used car - but found that although I could afford a cheap used car, I couldn't afford a monthly parking space. It would have cost more than my apartment rent!. Anyway, I rented a car a couple of times and had almost no difficulty in adapting to the "wrong" side of the road driving. However, I had a lot of trouble re-adapting to the "right" side of the road driving when I came back to the USA.
-
Do not hone the cylinders. They are made like asphalt or concrete. Honeing will destroy the surface.
-
I remember being told by someone at Moto International that they generally wore out three pistons before they saw any apparent wear on nicasill Guzzi cylinders. What mileage does it take to wear out ring lands? I expect so many variables in the equation but I’d guess 100K anyway.
-
I'm looking at a apparently stock '78 T-3. If it hasn't been modified or updated, Chrome or Nigusel??
-
I'm looking at a apparently stock '78 T-3. If it hasn't been modified or updated, Chrome or Nigusel??
It will have chrome bores unless the cylinder have been replaced, replated or sleeved. Easy way to tell exactly what you have: remove a sparkplug, make sure the piston is down away from TDC, insert a pencil magnet and touch the cylinder wall. If there's zero magnetic attraction then they're chrome, very slight = "Nikasil", strong = iron liners.
-
Maybe the Italians spell the plating process with a G instead of a K because the Italian alphabet doesn't have the letter K.