Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Cory on October 05, 2017, 02:03:33 PM
-
I'm piecing my safety gear together having started with gloves. Now, working my way down it's onto the helmet.
Any recommendation befitting a Moto Guzzi? My typical theme is minimalism/high quality if that matters.
Thanks and with a jacket and boots next feel free to suggest those as well if you can.
Much appreciated.
-
I'm piecing my safety gear together having started with gloves. Now, working my way down it's onto the helmet.
Any recommendation befitting a Moto Guzzi? My typical theme is minimalism/high quality if that matters.
Thanks and with a jacket and boots next feel free to suggest those as well if you can.
Much appreciated.
Head down to the RevZilla showroom at the Navy Yard. You'll find plenty of top quality gear, much of it not cheap, but competitively priced.
-
Head down to the RevZilla showroom at the Navy Yard. You'll find plenty of top quality gear, much of it not cheap, but competitively priced.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dAEprG/IMG_1589.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dAEprG)
-
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dAEprG/IMG_1589.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dAEprG)
Yup
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171005/dd073bd2221be1d271267c593560f7b2.jpg)
-
Hi Cory,
Just got an Email from Motorcycle Superstore. They're blowing out a bunch of helmets.... worth taking a look
http://www.motorcycle-superstore.com/107/mngr/motorcycle-helmets.aspx?sale=1&SiteID=em_Promo_Clout_Str_2017_10_05_AEJ_15_15_9_BC0_000_Heros_L1X_Helmets_L1X_Helmets_39664999&e=cGF1bGNvbnlAYW9sLmNvbQ==&M_ID=39664999&R_ID=327689471&utm_medium=email&utm_source=ExactTarget&utm_content=2017.10.05.Helmets
Paul B :boozing:
-
Although modern and not “befitting” of a guzzi, I use a shoei gt air. Pricey but worth it and you feel the difference compared to others. Also the RF-1200 is a nice one. I like that the GT air has a drop down internal visor, and they come in solid colors so you’re not stuck picking some funky or loud graphic.
-
I can comment on what saved my arse when I went down hard in February. Nolan N104 modular. Depends however on your head shape. You should determine if you are round, oval, long oval, etc. Different brands can tend towards certain head shapes and I chose Nolan because they fit a medium oval head shape well, and they are quality. I replaced the accident damaged helmet with another N104, and N104 Evo in silver this time. Added a Nolan NCOM B5 bluetooth intercom thing which connects to my android phone and will read me turn-by-turn directions running on google maps in nav mode. I was wearing a Firstgear mesh-tex summer jacket when I crashed and it held together well but natre of the wreck was no sliding on tarmac or that would not have worked out as well with mesh tex (ran off road and high sided). Same with gloves, they are still good to go just some minor abrasion Firstgear Kilmanjaro's.
I just bought a pair of SIDI air 3/4 height boots in August on clearance and they are quite stout, I believe they would protect decently in a mishap.
A word on minimalist helmets. Had I been wearing a half helmet or 3/4 open face I might have lost some teeth or worse, I am not sure. The chin bar area of the N104 had scuffing, as did topside rear and rear. Have missing memory from point of starting to come off to point of coming to senses on my back in the weeds, so no ideas on the scuffs but suffice to say I am all about a full face or modular helmet with the face section locked down.
Maybe some folks will chime in about fiberglass shell helmets instead of poly. My neighbor who no longer rides swears that a fiberglass shell is the best because it absorbs more energy thus passing less on to be dealt with by the interior materials, than poly does. I've no idea on that. My take is that fit is more important than shell material.
-
I am on my second Bell Bullitt , the first one was crash tested! After wearing a half helmet for years I decided I would feel a little more comfortable with more protection. I was glad I made the switch. After my get-off, the chin bar was well scuffed. Others have complained about wind noise, but with the exception of whistling with the visor up, at speed, it is far more quiet than my half helmet ever was.
The visibility through the large opening is unrestricted. Fit and finish with leather trim is very good. If you wear a long oval this hat is probably not for you however.
-
I am using Nolan N87 and find it top notch, have had Cabergs, Shoei etc and this one does me well.
It is Full face not sure if that is what you are after.
-
Fit. When I shopped Itried on just about everything. The Nolans did not fit me. I got lucky and snagged a Schuberth on closeout. It fit me perfectly. Had Shoei, HJC and Bell's over the years. The all required a little foam work in the forehead area after a while.
For brands I looked at everything I could find to test fit. Shoei, Nolan, Shark, HJC, even the cheap Bilt stuff.
And, I have to admit that I think the Schuberth is worth the extra money. But, most of that is because it fit me so well.
-
As kev said, you're close to Revzilla. Fit is most important, by far. Chances are a few different brands/models will fit well and you'll have options. If not, you'll know that, too.
I'll avoid the half/full helmet debate but will suggest you look at one of the very few (as) scientific as can be reports called The Hurt Report. There is a easy to read graphic drawing of a helmet with percentages of impact all around the head. It's quite telling as to where the highest incidents of impact are. All crashes are unique but the odds suggest a few areas over others.
You may also want to inquire with your family Dr. about what happens when a relatively mild force is applied to the human chin in a slight upward manor.
-
I'll avoid the half/full helmet debate but will suggest you look at one of the very few (as) scientific as can be reports called The Hurt Report. There is a easy to read graphic drawing of a helmet with percentages of impact all around the head. It's quite telling as to where the highest incidents of impact are. All crashes are unique but the odds suggest a few areas over others.
You may also want to inquire with your family Dr. about what happens when a relatively mild force is applied to the human chin in a slight upward manor.
I don't think you avoided it.
I'll add that our family doctors (two close friends, one a former coroner as well, and both of whom have spent a decade working in ERs), took up motorcycling after they were empty nesters. They spent some time studying the Hurt report and a number of other related statistical reports, BOTH wear open face 3/4 helmets.
-
I don't think you avoided it.
I'll add that our family doctors (tell close friends, one a former coroner as well, and both of whom have spent a decade working in ERs), took up motorcycling after they were empty nesters. They spent some time studying the Hurt report and a number of other related statistical reports, BOTH wear open face 3/4 helmets.
You got me thinking about open face. That's what I had when racing and had a few very violent mishaps with only shoulder and hip damage. A "funny" side note to the shoulder injury was that my initial thought was how my arm got out of the sleeve since it was all contorted and then noticed a hand at the end of the sleeve. A body cast for 6 weeks ensued and a near heart attack for my mom.
-
You got me thinking about open face.
Nolan N44 gives you the best of both worlds, and it's Italian!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bJ60WG/nolan_n44_evo_italy_n_com.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bJ60WG)
-
Nolan N44 gives you the best of both worlds, and it's Italian!
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bJ60WG/nolan_n44_evo_italy_n_com.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bJ60WG)
The chin bar is removable?
HMMMMMMM, I really should think about that. Could be handy on a tour if a day (heavy rain) comes along that I want the face shield and chin bar.
-
I'm piecing my safety gear together having started with gloves. Now, working my way down it's onto the helmet.
Any recommendation befitting a Moto Guzzi? My typical theme is minimalism/high quality if that matters.
Thanks and with a jacket and boots next feel free to suggest those as well if you can.
Much appreciated.
The first thing you need to do is figure out what size you will take and what shape your head is. Helmets range from almost round to narrow oval. When you find one that fits well you will love wearing it. Some, you will immediately know they don't fit. Others, it will become apparent that they don't fit after 30 minutes to an hour.
Since the V7 is a retro style bike, there are retro style helmets that will continue the look if that is what you are after. Bell makes a Full Face "Bullitt", and a 3/4 helmet with retro styling. Builtwell is another.
If you find you head leans more towards the narrow end then LS2 helmets or the pricy Arai helmets have you covered.
Check out ICON Elsinore 1000 boots for a classic look, but modern protection. I have a brown pair. https://www.revzilla.com/motorcycle/icon-1000-elsinore-boots?utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=4580909039109076|410|pg2844124|9c01f508-51ed-403f-964b-c01d4103e9e8&utm_campaign=PLA-Icon-Products&utm_content={CriteriaId}
-
The chin bar is removable?
HMMMMMMM, I really should think about that. Could be handy on a tour if a day (heavy rain) comes along that I want the face shield and chin bar.
It is. this came in real handy during the kentucky rally. Temps in the 90's, I needed more air, and with bags on the bike, it was a hassle free conversion.
My only beef with this helmet is that with a ratchet strap and a removable chin bar, there's no way to lock it to the bike. (d rings or chin bar each allow for this)
You could still do it, and I have, given that the typical thief is an fleeting opportunist and probably isn't familiar with the helmet and it's features.
-
It is. this came in real handy during the kentucky rally. Temps in the 90's, I needed more air, and with bags on the bike, it was a hassle free conversion.
My only beef with this helmet is that with a ratchet strap and a removable chin bar, there's no way to lock it to the bike. (d rings or chin bar each allow for this)
You could still do it, and I have, given that the typical thief is an fleeting opportunist and probably isn't familiar with the helmet and it's features.
:thumb:
That sounds great, I'll have to check it out.
I'm currently wearing a Shark 3/4 most of the time, and it has a small pull-down visor which, when combined with a neck wrap CAN get me through a storm, but a FF conversion would be perfect!
Thanks!
-
I imagine doctors who ride do all kinds of things-and use everything under the sun-just like the rest of us.
Reminds me of a surgeon who was a good client of mine-and smoked like a chimney.
When I ran tech and gear seminars for our local Triumph shop I invited a Dr. to address our group. In addition to some very revealing information about skin grafts it was pointed out that the two bones at the top of the jaw under the ears are prone to move back and up with the right angle of force with catastrophic results.
As I said, or thought I said, not my place to tell OP what to do or use, or anybody else. I think it's a good thing for all of us, the collective "we", to have as many facts as possible with the goal of making the best possible individual decision.
Not starting anything-we're just chatting, as we might at an event, yes?
-
Helmet style is a very personal thing, pick the one you like. Then try on as many different helmets, of the style you like, as you can get you hands on and your head into.
Buy the one that's most comfortable. Nut'n worse the wearing a 30 minute helmet on a 4 hour ride. :sad:
Paul
-
I imagine doctors who ride do all kinds of things-and use everything under the sun-just like the rest of us.
Reminds me of a surgeon who was a good client of mine-and smoked like a chimney.
When I ran tech and gear seminars for our local Triumph shop I invited a Dr. to address our group. In addition to some very revealing information about skin grafts it was pointed out that the two bones at the top of the jaw under the ears are prone to move back and up with the right angle of force with catastrophic results.
As I said, or thought I said, not my place to tell OP what to do or use, or anybody else. I think it's a good thing for all of us, the collective "we", to have as many facts as possible with the goal of making the best possible individual decision.
Not starting anything-we're just chatting, as we might at an event, yes?
Absolutely, just chatting.
And yes, there are or WERE doctor's who smoke.
I'm citing two individuals who don't smoke, don't drink, both run marathons and study martial arts, who are honestly even among the many doctors I know two of the smartest people I've ever met. Knowing what they know they did a risk assessment with more information than most of us have and came to the conclusion that 3/4 helmets were acceptable. Granted, sober, conservative, touring type riders on non-sport bikes and factors like that might have played into their analysis.
I mention them to counter the unknown risk averse or risk taking influence of the doctor you have mentioned, to show balance and suggest the issue isn't black and white.
-
(http://thumb.ibb.co/cGzURG/31_Rbv_Es_Way_L.jpg) (http://ibb.co/cGzURG)
-
Helmets are a personal choice and depends on head size and shape. I have a BIG head and especially long so it's hard to find full face helmets that fits. Either they are too narrow or they are like a trashcan and rattles around.
The best helmet I've ever got and still use is a LS 2 396. Quality is outstanding, there are 3 ventilation channels, integrated sunscreen, pinhead visor and even a small inflatable balloon in each chin side to make sure the helmet sit tight. I got a bargain and paid 100€ for it in Germany which is about 110 USD.
And yes, it's Chinese... but still an oustanding quality
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb0x-6x8IfM
https://www.fc-moto.de/en/Brands/L/LS2/FF396?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9pqFsOPc1gIVHYGyCh3dEAF2EAAYASAAEgK-WPD_BwE
-
Yep and Doctors have been known to have tad more whisky than is good for them either.
But just goes to show we can all, even professionals, give advice even if we don't use it ourselves! :grin:
-
Happened to be driving by the Naval Yard (from DE) and stopped in RevZilla. They really are super knowledgeable.
My head is a medium/long oval which narrows it down a bit, but all of the high-end helmets seemed a little claustrophobic. Will stop back when I have more time and just go with the first one that feels natural even if not highly rated.
On a side note - decided on the V9 Roamer.
-
Happened to be driving by the Naval Yard (from DE) and stopped in RevZilla. They really are super knowledgeable.
My head is a medium/long oval which narrows it down a bit, but all of the high-end helmets seemed a little claustrophobic. Will stop back when I have more time and just go with the first one that feels natural even if not highly rated.
On a side note - decided on the V9 Roamer.
Yup, the showroom is very convenient.
Still awesome on the smallblock. [emoji56]
-
Happened to be driving by the Naval Yard (from DE) and stopped in RevZilla. They really are super knowledgeable.
My head is a medium/long oval which narrows it down a bit, but all of the high-end helmets seemed a little claustrophobic. Will stop back when I have more time and just go with the first one that feels natural even if not highly rated.
On a side note - decided on the V9 Roamer.
Remember the helmet will break in and fit much better
-
I imagine doctors who ride do all kinds of things-and use everything under the sun-just like the rest of us.
Reminds me of a surgeon who was a good client of mine-and smoked like a chimney.
When I ran tech and gear seminars for our local Triumph shop I invited a Dr. to address our group. In addition to some very revealing information about skin grafts it was pointed out that the two bones at the top of the jaw under the ears are prone to move back and up with the right angle of force with catastrophic results.
As I said, or thought I said, not my place to tell OP what to do or use, or anybody else. I think it's a good thing for all of us, the collective "we", to have as many facts as possible with the goal of making the best possible individual decision.
Not starting anything-we're just chatting, as we might at an event, yes?
Eldo Jon has 3 full face helmets hanging in the garage. All are *heavily* scarred on the chin bar. I'm just chatting, too, but that's good enough for me.
-
Eldo Jon has 3 full face helmets hanging in the garage. All are *heavily* scarred on the chin bar. I'm just chatting, too, but that's good enough for me.
I've crashed 3 times and never touched a chin or bar on the ground.
You may notice that a chin bar protrudes much more than a chin, might be a factor too.
-
No one would argue that a FF helmet does not provide the best protection in a crash.
I prefer the convenience of a modular helmet because I wear glasses and I can put on the helmet without removing my glasses.
Today I had a very enjoyable 300 mile back road ride while wearing a DOT Vega half helmet. Other than the small towns I went through I probably encountered a dozen vehicles during the ride. I was riding behind a large windshield. I do prefer no windshield and a FF helmet though.
My observation over the years is that the more gear someone has on, the more risk they are willing to take while riding. They also tend to low side more often as well.
Today, I never exceeded the speed limit so any vehicle (tractor, cotton bale truck, car) that I encountered around a blind curve was a non-issue. My sport bike friends would have been using all their skills and the capabilities of their bikes to avoid a situation.
I also find that the further I travel from home the more gear I usually wear because I want to be prepared for all weather and traffic conditions.
-
This past spring I decided that it was time to replace my Arai XD3 because it was six years old. I really liked having the visor/peak which kept the sun out of my eyes when it was low in the sky. I was thinking that I would like a modular (flip-up chinbar) with a visor - there are several on the market now.
I decided to go to Performance Cycles in Denver even though it was a 60 mile drive and on the other side of Denver, because I thought they would have a good selection. I was right; they had about a dozen manufacturers, many models, and a good selection of sizes and colors. But the real bonus was that the salespeople had training from the manufacturers and they knew their stuff.
So I tried on more than a dozen helmets; modular with and w/o visors, XD4 and other dual-sport helmets. Note: I have a big, long oval head -- my XD3 was a 2XL. No being in love with any of them the salesman suggested I try on an Aria Signet-X, a "standard" full face helmet designed for long oval heads. YES, this was it! And a XL fit best. It was more money than I was planning to spend but -- what is my head worth? and my comfort? It didn't have a visor or a flip-up chinbar - so what, comfort was more important to me.
Moral of the story: shop where they have a wide selection and knowledgeable salespersons, and buy the one that fits.
PS: Some advise I read when I had just started motorcycling seriously: Don't start out on a long trip with new equipment - helmet, boots, bike, etc. Get a couple months of break-in to make sure that it's right.
-
I now have a Nolan N87 and would recommend it.
Useful helmet info here:
https://sharp.dft.gov.uk
-
Safety first, comfort second, style third. You’re not a Harley rider.
-
Safety first, comfort second, style third. You�re not a Harley rider.
Harley riders don't own the monopoly on choosing the other way around.
Many riders choose to accept risk for enjoyment. This IS why we ride isn't it?
Personally, I don't know how anyone who isn't sitting behind a very large windscreen can wear anything but a FF or Modular helmet. When I visit Florida there are way more riders without helmets on all kinds of bikes. All the states near me all require helmets and eye protection.
-
For inquiring minds - the new Bell Star with MIPS wins.
-
For inquiring minds - the new Bell Star with MIPS wins.
Awesome choice. I have a Bell Star Carbon. They didn't have MIPS when I bought mine. I will be watching that technology closely to see how it performs in the real world.
-
Awesome choice. I have a Bell Star Carbon. They didn't have MIPS when I bought mine. I will be watching that technology closely to see how it performs in the real world.
From trying both I wouldn't necessarily replace a current Star with a MIPS, but did seem to make sense. I think they're both totally fine though.
-
I've crashed 3 times and never touched a chin or bar on the ground.
You may notice that a chin bar protrudes much more than a chin, might be a factor too.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bLvZiw/IMG_2746.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bLvZiw)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eDXEiw/IMG_2747.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eDXEiw)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/fc5BVb/shoulder1.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fc5BVb)
Certainly not intending to be argumentative, but here you go. My Shoei and the boy's Icon. The x-ray is mine, from about 4 months later. There was a substantial bit of deformation to the styrofoam on the inside of my helmet, and the shell was cracked badly enough to be flexible. All of that likely saved me from a more serious head injury. The boy walked away. I'm almost mostly recovered.
The bighorn sheep, I'm told, had some sort of 3/4 keratin-based headgear, too. It didn't save him.
As we say, your mileage may vary, and a little bit of random chance here or there makes all the difference. Buy the good stuff.
Regards,
C
-
(http://thumb.ibb.co/bLvZiw/IMG_2746.jpg) (http://ibb.co/bLvZiw)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eDXEiw/IMG_2747.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eDXEiw)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/fc5BVb/shoulder1.jpg) (http://ibb.co/fc5BVb)
Certainly not intending to be argumentative, but here you go. My Shoei and the boy's Icon. The x-ray is mine, from about 4 months later. There was a substantial bit of deformation to the styrofoam on the inside of my helmet, and the shell was cracked badly enough to be flexible. All of that likely saved me from a more serious head injury. The boy walked away. I'm almost mostly recovered.
The bighorn sheep, I'm told, had some sort of 3/4 keratin-based headgear, too. It didn't save him.
As we say, your mileage may vary, and a little bit of random chance here or there makes all the difference. Buy the good stuff.
Regards,
C
And some people die skiing...
Point? We all have our own risk v reward judgments to make. Over the hundreds of thousands of miles I've ridden I've predominantly worn high quality 3/4 helmets, though I've also usually owned an Arai FF at the same time.
The difference in enjoyment is so extreme I avoid the Arai like a plague till temps are in the 40°s or lower, or rain is predetermined to be torrential.
I will occasionally pick it if I think the ride will be particularly aggressive, but honestly most of my rides are pretty laid back.
But at the end of the day you or I could be killed in a crosswalk or auto accident or _______ tomorrow.
I read the Hurt report too and studied the percentages from the various impact zones. I've also been a martial artist since I was 13 and my body has as some very specific reactions to falling which I suspect helped me to not contact my face in my two high sides.
At the end of the day we pay our money and takes our chances.
-
I don't think you avoided it.
I'll add that our family doctors (two close friends, one a former coroner as well, and both of whom have spent a decade working in ERs), took up motorcycling after they were empty nesters. They spent some time studying the Hurt report and a number of other related statistical reports, BOTH wear open face 3/4 helmets.
And I will raise you a facial reconstruction plastic surgeon avid rider who won't even wear a flip up, much less open face, as he says he has seen & worked on the results of two of them flipping up in an accident.
:thumb:
-
And I will raise you a facial reconstruction plastic surgeon avid rider who won't even wear a flip up, much less open face, as he says he has seen & worked on the results of two of them flipping up in an accident.
:thumb:
I'm sure like most surgeons he really gets to know his motorcyclist patients, their tendencies to drink, speed, race, stunt, etc.
And you get why a facial reconstruction surgeon would have a occupationally narrow view of the big picture (self-selecting bias) since he ONLY see the ones that land on their faces right?
-
I'm sure like most surgeons he really gets to know his motorcyclist patients, their tendencies to drink, speed, race, stunt, etc.
And you get why a facial reconstruction surgeon would have a occupationally narrow view of the big picture (self-selecting bias) since he ONLY see the ones that land on their faces right?
:thumb:
-
Just bought a Shoie Neotec and added Sienna Com System designed to integrate with the Neotec.
Best and most expensive hemet I have ever owned. Highly satisfied.
Dave
Galveston
-
Where is my 21st century helmet with auto darkening visor (adjustable, of course), noise cancelling technology, and heads up display with rear view?
-
Helmet fit is super personal and super variable due to the differences in human anatomy.
I have been helping new riders select helmets long before I got a job that requires me to do so. I usually tell them to imagine being a jungle tribesperson getting shoes for the first time. The sensations will be so numerous and so odd that they will not be able to figure out what really matters and what's just different. Therefore I advise against an expensive helmet unless they have the time to really spend 15 minutes apiece in several very differently shaped helmets before making a decision.
Get measured for head size, then try on some very differently shaped helmets in the correct size, noting that not all brands agree on what measurements fall within each letter size. Arai offers different models that are either round or oval helmets, while most brands offer only one head shape across all models. For example, HJC offer very round helmets that are all very uncomfortable to my personal head shape, while Nolan offer medium oval helmets that fit reasonably well on my long oval head, and Icon's long oval helmets fit my skull nicely, but somehow almost all seem to conflict with my big Jewish nose. RevZilla's website is actually a great resource for knowing which helmets are which head shape.
Finally, wherever you go to get fitted, give your money to the shop that takes the time and invests in the inventory that allowed you to figure out what works for you. A few dozen helmets represent the shop owner tying up thousands of dollars in inventory for your benefit, and time spent helping you get fitted is a payroll cost. If you appreciate not having to order a helmet to try it on, show your appreciation with your purchase. Most retail stores are pretty close to internet pricing on the good brands, and the best brands all require the internet sellers to charge the same as retail stores.
-
Where is my 21st century helmet with auto darkening visor (adjustable, of course), noise cancelling technology, and heads up display with rear view?
Well first it was crowd funded, then crashed and burned, and now someone is trying to revive it:
https://www.revzilla.com/common-tread/company-that-revived-gas-gas-tries-to-bring-back-skully-helmets
-
From trying both I wouldn't necessarily replace a current Star with a MIPS, but did seem to make sense. I think they're both totally fine though.
Did you get a transitions visor? I love mine. Darkens in the sun and lightens in the rain or at night. I had to wait a little while before buying mine. I seemed to always scuff my visor so I had to learn to protect it at all costs but have had this transitions visor for about 70,000 miles now and no scuffs.
-
Although modern and not �befitting� of a guzzi, I use a shoei gt air. Pricey but worth it and you feel the difference compared to others. Also the RF-1200 is a nice one. I like that the GT air has a drop down internal visor, and they come in solid colors so you�re not stuck picking some funky or loud graphic.
:1: on the Shoei GT Air. I bought one because they are rated as one of the quietest helmets on the market - didn't disappoint.
One of my riding buddies as a Shoei Neotech, which is almost the same helmet but in a modular format. This guy is a bit on the 'thrifty' side so I was surprised when I saw him wearing a high-end Shoei. He told me he wished he had bought one years ago.
I also have a Shoei JCruise that I wear a lot. It's an open face helmet that I really like.
-
A short video of my renewed confusion over full-face vs. open -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKCBWRU59zk
-
A short video of my renewed confusion over full-face vs. open -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKCBWRU59zk
Funny. There should be no confusion. A full faCE with the visor closed provides the best protection period. Everything else comes down to level of risk one is willing to take on. Where you ride, how you ride, how skilled a rider, your keen sense of situational awareness, and your reflexes all play into your risk calculation.
-
Free-form semi-rant here.
Head shapes vary, as do skill sets, tastes, risk tolerance etc. I survived my youth riding bicycles, skiing, playing softball and flag football without helmets, but I did suffer a number of superficial head injuries as a result. Under that luxuriant 69-year-old hair are some ragged scars; a helmet and face mask would certainly have saved my front teeth during that brief love affair with hockey at age 13. I don't know how I avoided concussion -- perhaps I didn't.
I am alive because I was wearing a first-gen Shoei when I high-sided a Ducati 750SS in July of 1974, and because I was wearing a bike helmet when I went over the bars of my mountain bike descending a switchback singletrack at Winter Park in 1995. My kid was born in 1990 so you could say she owes her life to that Shoei.
In a direct impact (vector more or less normal to the helmet surface), lightweight ski and bike helmets are pretty much worthless over about 15 mph. But I've seen no statistics about how many impacts are of that nature. Average speed-over-ground for intermediate skiers and cyclists is no more than 15 mph, so my informed guess (expert speculation?) is that helmets do a lot of good. I know for a fact that the incidence of head lacerations has dropped 90% since most skiers started wearing helmets.
I've always worn helmets for rock climbing and kayaking, because bouncing your head off rocks is an unavoidable part of those sports.
When I started riding motorbikes the best helmet available was the Bell 500, and I found a nice used one, which I wore for most of a decade before acquiring the full face Shoei. Then a Bell Star. I've tried on a lot of helmets and keep coming back to Snell Bells as the best fit for me at reasonable cost.
So the issue is the light weight and hot-weather comfort of a 3/4 vs the quiet security of a good full-face helmet. The decision was final when I saw a photo (posted on this forum) of a biker who had lost his entire lower jaw -- nothing but raw red meat from the upper front teeth back to the larynx. That photo was taken down after a few days. I'm sure it's findable with a google search but who has the stomach to look for it?
As for fit, I spent years to get my ski boots to fit with the same comfort and precision as my prescription spectacles; both are $500 items. The helmet deserves a few hours of fitting time in a proper retail location.
-
The absolute best best $10 I have spent was at www.lidpicker.com Makes finding truly great fitting helmets easy, buy where you want.
-
I am kinda surprised that mfgs like Shoei, Arai, Schuberth do not have a fitting 'system' like there is for good ski boots.
I suspect it is due in part to helmet weight. It would take a slightly oversize shell to allow for all the different shapes, which means a few oz extra weight. At the same time, why not good noise control, like helicopter helmet ear cups? Probably same issue, weight.
I just wonder if people would buy a slightly oversize/weight helmet if it was quiet and fit perfectly.
-
:1: on the Shoei GT Air. I bought one because they are rated as one of the quietest helmets on the market - didn't disappoint.
One of my riding buddies as a Shoei Neotech, which is almost the same helmet but in a modular format. This guy is a bit on the 'thrifty' side so I was surprised when I saw him wearing a high-end Shoei. He told me he wished he had bought one years ago.
I also have a Shoei JCruise that I wear a lot. It's an open face helmet that I really like.
Let the flames begin. After much searching and trying on helmets, I settled on a Shoei GT Air, too. Had to get custom cheek pads to get the fit right. Nice helmet.
But.
I was needing to replace my helmet out in SoCal, so went in to Cycle Gear..about the only place available near me. Had a high dollar helmet picked out, but saw a $100 Bilt sitting on the shelf in my size. XL. It takes a big head to put all those brains in there.. :evil: Thought, "What the hey, let's see what the low priced spread is all about just for grins." It just fit. Hmmm. Asked the sales girl if I could bring it back if I hated it. "Sure."
Put it on and immediately was impressed with the eyeport size.. I could see out of it better than the Shoei. It was *quieter* (!) too. The drop down eye shade is not as elegant as the Shoei, but works ok. The shield mechanism is better. (!) There is a lever that keeps the shield from closing completely which is perfect for a little ventilation. The Shoei doesn't have that, and at the first notch open blows air at my eyes. Replacement shields are almost free compared to the Shoei.
I'm sold. I'd rather wear it even though it's an ugly booger. I think they call it the Raptor.
-
I have several HJCs' 'cause I have machines in multiple locations!
I have both full face IR 16s (internal sun shield) and a half with a retractable shield.
They are cheap compared to the high end stuff.
I have never had a real good HJC but then I have never had real a bad one either.
Spare parts are cheap as well.
-
I am kinda surprised that mfgs like Shoei, Arai, Schuberth do not have a fitting 'system' like there is for good ski boots.
I've thought about this a lot. The issue is, I think, that once the foam and/or liner is modified, how can the manufacturer be assured that the helmet still meets Snell or DOT or ECE or ??? impact standards? Can't. Even bike-helmet style mechanisms would degrade Snellability.
Ski boot standards are different. You can change the fit without changing the sole dimensions -- meaning no change in ski binding interface. The only other relevant standard is forward flex limit, which protects the achilles tendon. That standard is also unaffected by custom fitting.
-
Added a Nolan NCOM B5 bluetooth intercom thing which connects to my android phone and will read me turn-by-turn directions running on google maps in nav mode.
Not trying to hijack the thread, but I have a Nolan N104 helmet with NCOM B5 bluetooth, and I've never been able to get it to work with google maps. Music from the card in the phone comes through just fine, and I can run my Sygic navigation app to provide instructions.
But I have a soft spot for google maps as I can drag the route on the screen to try another route direction. What I don't know is how to operate it in "nav" mode. Please explain.
-
(https://clas-pages.uncc.edu/visualrhetoric/wp-content/uploads/sites/651/2014/04/helmet-impact.jpg)
19.4% + 15.2% = 34.6% Better than 1/3 of all helmet related impacts involve the chin area. So.....
Just sayin'
Matt
-
(https://clas-pages.uncc.edu/visualrhetoric/wp-content/uploads/sites/651/2014/04/helmet-impact.jpg)
19.4% + 15.2% = 34.6% Better than 1/3 of all helmet related impacts involve the chin area. So.....
Just sayin'
Matt
It's not that simple.
First that's one OLD study that IIRC simply noted if there was any sign of impact on a FF helmet in the accidents in the study yes?
But the chin bar on a FF helmet by design must necessarily protrude farther from the center mass of the head than a chin. So wouldn't that alone increase the chance of a chin bar contacting something that a chin might not?
As a matter of fact many 3/4 helmets protrude in such a way that if you hit the forehead part of the helmet on a flat surface it keeps your face away.
And 3/4 helmets vary in design but depending on the size and shape they may cover some of the areas included in those percentages.
I'm not saying it's any guarantee, but I am not sure those are necessarily accurate percentages of the "risks".
But then again my anecdotal evidence is three get offs without ever hitting my helmet on anything, so much for percentages.
-
So you'd argue that not having a chin bar will result in less impacts to the helmet, by roughly 1/3?
-
So you'd argue that not having a chin bar will result in less impacts to the helmet, by roughly 1/3?
Nope, I just said it's not that simple.
-
Another way to look at the hits chart is that 45% of impacts are ahead of the ears and below the eyebrows. That suggests that I want a thick visor supported all around its perimeter. Ymmv. And no one has mentioned taking a rock to the jaw at 65 mph. Motocross helmets are designed that way for a reason.
-
It's not that simple.
First that's one OLD study that IIRC simply noted if there was any sign of impact on a FF helmet in the accidents in the study yes?
But the chin bar on a FF helmet by design must necessarily protrude farther from the center mass of the head than a chin. So wouldn't that alone increase the chance of a chin bar contacting something that a chin might not?
As a matter of fact many 3/4 helmets protrude in such a way that if you hit the forehead part of the helmet on a flat surface it keeps your face away.
And 3/4 helmets vary in design but depending on the size and shape they may cover some of the areas included in those percentages.
I'm not saying it's any guarantee, but I am not sure those are necessarily accurate percentages of the "risks".
But then again my anecdotal evidence is three get offs without ever hitting my helmet on anything, so much for percentages.
Nice try at justification for your decision.
Wear what you want, but don't try and use the results of a study that shows these numbers.
Now, if you would have said that the study doesn't show the force of impact or the distance the chin bar slid down the road so there is no indication to the level of injury incurred...
-
Nice try at justification for your decision.
Wear what you want, but don't try and use the results of a study that shows these numbers.
I'm questioning the validity of the numbers and showing reasons why they may not mean what is suggested by earlier posts (i.e. a simple and accurate prediction of statistical risk to injury in those areas).
Now, if you would have said that the study doesn't show the force of impact or the distance the chin bar slid down the road so there is no indication to the level of injury incurred...
Well there you go there is that as well.
That further raises into question such a "simple" analysis of the numbers.
-
I�m not sure what the debate here is.
Google image �motorcycle facial injuries� and see the difference between FF and open face protection.
Here�s my relatable experience: about 15 years ago, I was going home from work and filtering between cars. A motorcycle courier, on an old ex-police BMW, bike was aggressively riding my ass revving his engine.
I let him go by and he raced ahead. He cleared a path for me and I followed him.
Near a busy roundabout, with traffic stopped, a passenger opened a car door. It caught the horizontal cylinder of the BMW bike and instantly projected the rider over the bars. The rider, with an open face helmet, smashed his face on the fairing edge and was pretty bloodied. I tried the help him out after, apart from having lost 1 tooth (and many others loose), he was shaken-up and walking around ok, looking for one of his boot.
-yes, it could have been me. I would like to think that my FF Arai would have provided some protection from my LeMans V fairing.-In traffic, I ride with my visor down or cracked open. I don�t want to kiss that handlebar
The car door was pretty much ripped, what�s the G force on an instantaneous 30-0 MPH deceleration? Would bigger biceps strength or black belt taekwondo skills helped him out? I think not.
.
I did once have a faceplant on my road bike (bicycle) after I hit the kerb. That was pretty nasty.
-
The car door was pretty much ripped, what�s the G force on an instantaneous 30-0 MPH deceleration? Would bigger biceps strength or black belt taekwondo skills helped him out? I think not.
I dunno, why was he riding so aggressively?
I think what would have helped him out the most would have been more situational awareness and less aggression.
Of course, we don't even filter here so that's a whole other level of never mind.
I can see that with some here this topic might as well be religion. We all take risks just choosing to ride motorcycles instead of driving cars. Just THAT change in risk alone (ATGATT or not) likely is the largest statistical "risk" we've chosen.
I've asked before on this board, what's worse, riding ATGATT at 8 or 9/10's or STGATT (Some of...) at 5/10's? No one has the answer for sure, but I know what I suspect.
You pay your money and you take your chances. I don't think anyone here is about to convince anyone else to change their ways.
-
Beginning to resemble the back-and-forth between freedom-to-die bareheads and helmet believers.
Datasets are always questionable -- that's how we get better data. Until new research is done, I lean toward using the best data available now.
-
Beginning to resemble the back-and-forth between freedom-to-die bareheads and helmet believers.
Datasets are always questionable -- that's how we get better data. Until new research is done, I lean toward using the best data available now.
No I'm suggesting the data doesn't say what people are suggesting it says.
I'm not saying a FF doesn't offer more protection. I'm not saying helmets cause injuries. I'm simply saying I suspect the risk analysis math has more complicated factors. And I suspect many have not been accounted for.