Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: GuzziChris on October 12, 2017, 07:40:41 PM
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Hi Pete, you don't know me but I've always enjoyed your contributions to the board, and I wanted to ask you for the favor of your opinion.
A few days ago I read your comment about the "R9Turd" (I forget the context) and I'm wondering why you have negative thoughts about that particular model. I'm thinking about new bike options, including the R9T, and I was wondering if there was anything specific about the bike that was driving that perspective. Just as an FYI, I'm also strongly considering the Bonnie T120. Sadly a new Guzzi is pretty much out for now, I love the bikes but the dealer network is too sparse for my comfort, and none of the newer models "float my boat", except the Griso. I like the V7, but I want a bit more HP than that. Don't much care for the V9s, though they seem like fine bikes....
I thought about making this a PM to you, but then I thought this might be of interest to others so I made it a public thread, hope that's OK. If you don't feel up to replying about the R9T, I understand as it's a bit presumptuous of me to bother you for your opinion.
Thanks,
Chris
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life is too short....buy what YOU like....
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Thanks arveno, I agree with you and I always do, but I also like to factor into my decision the well informed opinions of folks who have more knowledge, access and experience on the topic than me....
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I sat on one once and it fit me perfect.
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I rode one and thought it was really a fine motorcycle.
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Moto Guzzi might surprise us next month with something really great. Maybe the OP could wait a few weeks and see...
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Moto Guzzi might surprise us next month with something really great. Maybe the OP could wait a few weeks and see...
LOL
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Why my opinion should hold significant water I don't know but on the R9T I mean just look at it!
Apart from being an obvious 'Poverty Pack' with non adjustable suspension it's a BMW which means it's got a weak gearbox and final drive that will leave you stranded and drinking your own urine in some god-forsaken desert when it breaks down or blows up! Then there is the engine which like all flat twins sounds like a horse farting in a swimming pool. It's greatest sin though is it's ugly! Not just a little bit ugly either! It exudes ugliness like a pyroclastic flow from a volcano of ugliness! It's so ugly not even it's mother could love it! It's fuel tank looks like some huge, uninsertable pessary! It's seat looks like a donkey speculum! It transcends all normal descriptions of ugly! It's so bad I reckon the reason you never see the wretched things on the road is that the morning after they've bought one their owners catch a glimpse of then out of their bedroom windows and are suddenly overwhelmed by a need to gouge their own eyes out! Service costs will be absurd and they will develop mysterious problems with their canbus a week after the warranty runs out!
I strongly urge you to run, not walk, RUN away from anything made by Bring More Wallet and book into one of the many counselling services that offer a seven step programme to cure you of this unhealthy fascination.
Pete
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As usual, Pete said it much more eloquently than I could. .but :1: :smiley:
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Why my opinion should hold significant water I don't know but on the R9T I mean just look at it!
Apart from being an obvious 'Poverty Pack' with non adjustable suspension it's a BMW which means it's got a weak gearbox and final drive that will leave you stranded and drinking your own urine in some god-forsaken desert when it breaks down or blows up! Then there is the engine which like all flat twins sounds like a horse farting in a swimming pool. It's greatest sin though is it's ugly! Not just a little bit ugly either! It exudes ugliness like a pyroclastic flow from a volcano of ugliness! It's so ugly not even it's mother could love it! It's fuel tank looks like some huge, uninsertable pessary! It's seat looks like a donkey speculum! It transcends all normal descriptions of ugly! It's so bad I reckon the reason you never see the wretched things on the road is that the morning after they've bought one their owners catch a glimpse of then out of their bedroom windows and are suddenly overwhelmed by a need to gouge their own eyes out! Service costs will be absurd and they will develop mysterious problems with their canbus a week after the warranty runs out!
I strongly urge you to run, not walk, RUN away from anything made by Bring More Wallet and book into one of the many counselling services that offer a seven step programme to cure you of this unhealthy fascination.
Pete
So Pete, what your trying to say is that if it was a dog that ugly, you'd shave it's rear end and teach it to walk backwards???
LMAO,
Tom
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The R9T has what I think is the best boxer engine BMW has ever made, the camhead 1200. This is the last air/oil cooled BMW. Despite what Pete says, if you can stand a bit of Tutonic weirdness, the R9T is a smoking deal of a bike and they are flying out of show rooms. If I was only looking at value for the dollar it would be high on my list.
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Why my opinion should hold significant water I don't know but on the R9T I mean just look at it!
It's greatest sin though is it's ugly! Not just a little bit ugly either! It exudes ugliness like a pyroclastic flow from a volcano of ugliness! It's so ugly not even it's mother could love it! It's fuel tank looks like some huge, uninsertable pessary! It's seat looks like a donkey speculum! It transcends all normal descriptions of ugly! It's so bad I reckon the reason you never see the wretched things on the road is that the morning after they've bought one their owners catch a glimpse of then out of their bedroom windows and are suddenly overwhelmed by a need to gouge their own eyes out!
Pete
Or, as a late friend would say, it's so ugly it would raise a blister on a brick wall.
It would gag a maggot on a meat wagon.
It would put a buzzard off its feed.
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Then there is the engine which like all flat twins sounds like a horse farting in a swimming pool.
hahahahahahaha! whew, that one got me! :grin:
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I'm chuckling to myself, not exactly the primary reasons I expected, BUT with all the linguistic artistry that we've all come to love.... thanks Pete!
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Let me tell you a story of a man named Erik. Not his real name, but this is a true story.
Erik had a Stornello. He really liked it. One day, he saw an R9T in a dealers show room. In a moment of what I can only assume was temporary insanity, he thought he would prefer to ride that instead of the Storny. He asked my opinion. Truly, he did. I told him I didn’t like them. Said Storny was traded on the R9T.
Some months later he told me that I was right. He got rid of the BMW and bought another Stornello.
Let this be a lesson to all.
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I borrowed a Pure from my local dealership and took it out for a couple of hours. I felt it was like the curate�s egg, good in parts. It was happier in stop/start traffic than my V7ll, but the riding position and the feel at speed weren�t right for me. As soon as I got back on my Guzzi and pulled away I knew that I was going to stick with her.
And the BMW is, as others have said, ugly, while my little Italian is a beauty.
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The R nine T is ugly but it is not on it's own in the current market. I have yet to see a KTM I like the look of. Harley seem to hit their current crop with a ugly stick before they leave the factory. In fact nine out of ten new bikes leave me cold but I suppose after 40 years of riding motorcycles you are bound to get a bit jaded.
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The thing would make a Bulldog jump off a gut wagon:(
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Why my opinion should hold significant water I don't know but on the R9T I mean just look at it!
Apart from being an obvious 'Poverty Pack' with non adjustable suspension it's a BMW which means it's got a weak gearbox and final drive that will leave you stranded and drinking your own urine in some god-forsaken desert when it breaks down or blows up! Then there is the engine which like all flat twins sounds like a horse farting in a swimming pool. It's greatest sin though is it's ugly! Not just a little bit ugly either! It exudes ugliness like a pyroclastic flow from a volcano of ugliness! It's so ugly not even it's mother could love it! It's fuel tank looks like some huge, uninsertable pessary! It's seat looks like a donkey speculum! It transcends all normal descriptions of ugly! It's so bad I reckon the reason you never see the wretched things on the road is that the morning after they've bought one their owners catch a glimpse of then out of their bedroom windows and are suddenly overwhelmed by a need to gouge their own eyes out! Service costs will be absurd and they will develop mysterious problems with their canbus a week after the warranty runs out!
I strongly urge you to run, not walk, RUN away from anything made by Bring More Wallet and book into one of the many counselling services that offer a seven step programme to cure you of this unhealthy fascination.
Pete
Curious, I ran this through google translate and got:
Me no likey BMW's
Pete
Personally, I dig em and it's the one/only BMW I'd consider, if I didn't have so many other things I want more.
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Guzzzi Chris, hard to elaborate on Pete's take but here is my thoughts. I owned briefly the t 100 bonny, a 2012 I purchased new and was soon bored of it . Everything worked as it should but it just had no character and the handling and brakes were archaic, and have never been crazy about the chain drive for a street bike.I'm sure the new 1200's may be better. Can't even compare it to my 09 griso , I bought it used and did the roller conversion at 3,000 miles and it is miles above the bonny in every sense. Many 2012 and above models come up on the used market for cheap $ and will save you the roller headache. My next door neighbor bought a 2014 r9t and likes it ok but says it is a little cramped for him and he wished he had tried the griso before he jumped in. He rode mine and said it felt more stable at speed on the highway, probably due to the longer wheelbase. If you like to do your own service you will really appreciate the Griso and all the knowledge available here and on the Gheto. Why buy a griso knock off when you can enjoy the real thing? Best of luck with your decision.
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I find the criticism of the R9T styling curious. It really looks a lot like the Griso in a package very close to my V11 Sport. I ran against one on the street and believe it had a little more power than my Greenie. For anyone looking for a new retro cafe bike, it's a newer version of the Sport but perhaps not as sophisticated as the Griso sport standard. And personally I enjoy riding my Sport over the 8v Griso.
So far as cost of ownership. Well, I have no bragging rights considering that the Greenie had to be torn in a million pieces to fix and fab a brace for the cracked transmission. And we all know the costs incurred with the flat tappet business for the 8 valves and the electronics associated with all.
This is not to give Beemer (or Ducati) a pass considering by comparison even worse expenses that I have previously ranted about. The only difference is that you can reasonably find a dealer to actually do the factory fixes.
The expenses and questionable reliability for all of these new bikes (Guzzi, Beemer & Ducati) have soured me off the whole lot. I only wish the Japanese bikes didn't look like Praying Mantises and handled better.
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The expenses and questionable reliability for all of these new bikes (Guzzi, Beemer & Ducati) have soured me off the whole lot. I only wish the Japanese bikes didn't look like Praying Mantises and handled better.
You're right, let's just buy Harleys!
:police: :boozing: :grin:
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You're right, let's just buy Harleys!
:police: :boozing: :grin:
Would I have to get a tattoo?
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Would I have to get a tattoo?
I can't say, it seems like you need to have a tattoo if you live in NJ these days so everyone I meet has em whether or not they ride a Harley.
Actually, I'm pretty sure no-one is allowed to study Brazilian Ju-Jitsu without AT LEAST a full sleeve. Or if they let them start training they must be sleeved by black belt.
:boozing:
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Moto Guzzi might surprise us next month with something really great. Maybe the OP could wait a few weeks and see...
Oh yeah I cannot wait :afro:
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New colors!
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Pete, You are quite the Postulate. I had a good laugh this morning. Thank you.
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Comon Pete find another subject and rip it a new asshole. This is fun! :boozing:
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Well, while many bikes have rotated through my garage over the years, only one (bought new) remains to keep my Cali company:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/hau4GG/IMG_0366.jpg) (http://ibb.co/hau4GG)
With Ohlins front/Hyperpro rear suspension, Akrapovic slip-on and a bunch of functional accessories, it still does everything I need it to do. And I still love the appearance, though of course that is purely personal.
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Pete just convinced me....I think I need to have one. :cool: :boozing:
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The Roper response to the question regarding the Beemer was fabulously verbose and exaggerated in a beautiful way that Monty Python could only hope to aspire to, and probably worthless to you given that it's all perception and therefore no bloody good to anyone.
Firstly mate, don't be scared to ask for opinions here, that's mainly why Wild Guzzi exists.
Now as it happens I reckon that Beemer is ugly as a hat full af arseholes too, but that means nothing to you, I've got a cement mixer in my yard that's better looking than an Ambo yet people here revere them for some inexplicable (to me) reason.
Weak final drives ?
In some of the most remote locations I've been I see massive numbers of Beemers with monstrous miles on the clock ticking away seemingly forever, they're well respected.
Bring More Wallet ?
If you had to do a full rebuild on a new R9 or a California, I'd be interested to know what the difference would be.
You asked for an opinion and you got one, but someone (anyone) telling you something is ugly won't alter how YOU see it....Take one for a massive test ride and see what you reckon.
(That stinking fairing looks shithouse though !!!)
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"Service costs will be absurd"
as a BMW owner i heartily endorse the above statement from pete. MY main objection to BMW's
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I have a different reason why it didn�t end up on my short list. The looks suited me, function over form. Fear of breakdown? Nah. The 2 beemers I had served me well, 26k miles on the first and 36k miles on the second. I do my own service work (most anyway). The subframe (what the seat rests on) is just crazy underbuilt for my needs. Bags look like they would break it right quick and I tow a (Bushtec) trailer. Nothing of substantial heft to fabricate a hitch to mount on it... Towed with my R1100RSL-ABS and my Norge. R9T? Not me!
Pete�s responses are so fun to read, plus I highly respect his mechanical knowledge and willingness to share it here :thumb:.
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"Service costs will be absurd"
as a BMW owner i heartily endorse the above statement from pete. MY main objection to BMW's
So why have you got one?
And
Do YOU think the R9 is ugly ???
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finally someone posted a pic!
(https://cdn.gearpatrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/BMW-R9T-Gear-Patrol-1-1940x1300.jpg)
(http://images.mcn.bauercdn.com/upload/302615/images/ninet-2.jpg)
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Ugliness in and of itself isn't a problem. I own two Stelvios for heavens sakes, (Yes, I just bought another one, an early 'Small Tank' flat tappet model but it's only done 12,000 kms so it should be a good-un after I've rollerised it.)! The Stelvios, either the small tanks or the NTX's, are hideous! Combining all the allure of a soviet era tank with the styling points of a 1930's Dublin bread van! Both make my gorge rise to look at but at least the NTX is easy to get the tank off! The plastic crap on the small tank models makes servicing them like playing 3D Tetris blindfold and with one hand tied behind your back!
Their redeeming features are that they are stupidly robust and easy to work on and as a 'Jack of All Trades' are second to none. They also have the gorgeous 8V motor which produces prodigious torque just where you want it even if you do need a pair of platform boots that make you look like David Bowie during his 'Major Tom' phase unless you have legs like a giraffe to straddle one.
Ugly can be good! But it has to be linked with practicality and fun. The R9Turd offers neither.
Pete
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Ugly can be good! But it has to be linked with practicality and fun. The R9Turd offers neither.
The R9T certainly offers fun, and even practicality.
H&B offers C-bow bag mounts, a rear rack (for top cases), and lock-it tang bag mounts.
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PLEASE don't even consider an R9T if you're looking to mount a decent windshield and/or hang saddlebags on it. That's not its design mission.
It is a platform designed to be customized. I have seen an awful lot of customs built off the base R9T; most of them are quite good. Some make me scratch my head, wondering what the builder had in mind. The BMW "specials" built off the R9T range from pretty nice to spectacular.
IF you want the performance qualities of the R9T but want (need?) to set it up for touring with windshield and bags, consider a camhead R1200R. Same engine; same grunt; more utility; touring-oriented tele lever front end.
Several BMW acquaintances and I own them for just that reason, and feel they are perfect for that mission.
Horses for courses and all that.
Best,
Carlo
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PLEASE don't even consider an R9T if you're looking to mount a decent windshield and/or hang saddlebags on it. That's not its design mission.
It is a platform designed to be customized. I have seen an awful lot of customs built off the base R9T; most of them are quite good. Some make me scratch my head, wondering what the builder had in mind. The BMW "specials" built off the R9T range from pretty nice to spectacular.
IF you want the performance qualities of the R9T but want (need?) to set it up for touring with windshield and bags, consider a camhead R1200R. Same engine; same grunt; more utility; touring-oriented tele lever front end.
Several BMW acquaintances and I own them for just that reason, and feel they are perfect for that mission.
Horses for courses and all that.
Best,
Carlo
Or a full on water cooled R1200RT. I test rode one a few weeks ago and the big girl was pretty nimble and comfortable. Brakes were about the best I have found.
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You're a funny bastard Roper !
I'd love to be within hearing distance of you at an Aussie rally at 1 am. A rare mix of Pommy humour and Aussie rapier wit. And a goodly deal of home truth free of charge. ( A bit subjective in places, but a great read and "ignore it at your your peril" content).
Anyway, that's what I reckon...
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Those things are just too.... "nice".
Not a criticism in itself but I just imagine a middle aged stockbroker from Berlin riding one in designer jeans with an inappropriately (and possibly illegally), young female on the back, (yeah I know, single seat, but I did say imagine)....
All perception though, so can't be argued with. :evil:
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Another perception then. Quite the opposite. I find the R9T a lot less 'nice' than the polished 8V and current V7 range - the R9T is more temperamental and rough. In a good way, a bit like the Triumph Speed Triple. The Pure, Racer and Urban G/S are also refreshingly free from compromises. I get the V7 keys when I want relaxed or just transportation, but I get the R9T when I want an engaging, focused ride. With the Griso gone and no new LeMans in sight Guzzi has nothing that can compete with the R9T.
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Another perception then. Quite the opposite. I find the R9T a lot less 'nice' than the polished 8V and current V7 range - the R9T is more temperamental and rough. In a good way, a bit like the Triumph Speed Triple. The Pure, Racer and Urban G/S are also refreshingly free from compromises. I get the V7 keys when I want relaxed or just transportation, but I get the R9T when I want an engaging, focused ride. With the Griso gone and no new LeMans in sight Guzzi has nothing that can compete with the R9T.
Just as valid as anyone else's opinion.
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How is shitty, non adjustable, 'One size fits all' suspension not a 'Compromise'? It's not Coventry in 1954! It's a global market in 2017! If you're happy with that? Fine. I prefer to keep moving forward rather than the 'One step forward, stagger back three!' epitomised by a clown's tricycle like the R9Toerag!
I'm sure it's 'Cool' if you're into that sort of thing but to my mind it's still a miserable Teutonic turd with nothing going for it.
Pete
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The R9T certainly offers fun, and even practicality.
H&B offers C-bow bag mounts, a rear rack (for top cases), and lock-it tang bag mounts.
Exactly....
... And Carlo, you bring up a funny point. This sacred cow in motorcycles that suggests you shouldn't "ruin" certain bikes with bags or a windshield.
Meh, a bike without bags is pretty much useless to me. And a shield of some type is usually a great comfort.
I'd bag out an R9T in a heartbeat.
Yeah the 1200R is a decent alternative too, but it's not the same thing, nor is the motor I thought, didn't it go water-cooled on the heads? That alone would make me pick the T.
That said I'd take a V7, V9, or Harley CX Roadster first anyway.
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How is shitty, non adjustable, 'One size fits all' suspension not a 'Compromise'? It's not Coventry in 1954! It's a global market in 2017! If you're happy with that? Fine. I prefer to keep moving forward rather than the 'One step forward, stagger back three!' epitomised by a clown's tricycle like the R9Toerag!
I'm sure it's 'Cool' if you're into that sort of thing but to my mind it's still a miserable Teutonic turd with nothing going for it.
Pete
The Nazi's bombed the Triumph motorcycle Coventry factory and the whole operation was moved to Meriden in 1942... :grin:
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Or a full on water cooled R1200RT. I test rode one a few weeks ago and the big girl was pretty nimble and comfortable. Brakes were about the best I have found.
Or the R1200RS -- lighter and sportier than the R1200RT, yet, still all-day comfortable.
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How is shitty, non adjustable, 'One size fits all' suspension not a 'Compromise'? It's not Coventry in 1954! It's a global market in 2017! If you're happy with that? Fine. I prefer to keep moving forward rather than the 'One step forward, stagger back three!' epitomised by a clown's tricycle like the R9Toerag!
I'm sure it's 'Cool' if you're into that sort of thing but to my mind it's still a miserable Teutonic turd with nothing going for it.
Pete
It does make me scratch my head that the original R9T has fully adjustable inverted forks with radial Brembo brakes, yet, they went to the cheap conventional nonadjustable forks with regular brakes for the R9T Racer.
I get it for the Pure, as they were trying to offer a lower priced option, but, the Racer should have premium components. Heck, even Moto Guzzi put Ohlin's shocks on the V7III Racer (though, I don't know if the fork is any better than the standard V7III).
I'd be more inclined to pick up a pre-owned '15 R9T (with the better forks and brakes), and customize it to look like (or at least similar to) the R9T Racer.
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Exactly....
... And Carlo, you bring up a funny point. This sacred cow in motorcycles that suggests you shouldn't "ruin" certain bikes with bags or a windshield.
Meh, a bike without bags is pretty much useless to me. And a shield of some type is usually a great comfort.
I'd bag out an R9T in a heartbeat.
Yeah the 1200R is a decent alternative too, but it's not the same thing, nor is the motor I thought, didn't it go water-cooled on the heads? That alone would make me pick the T.
That said I'd take a V7, V9, or Harley CX Roadster first anyway.
I guess it's all a matter of taste, Kev. While I can't imagine riding my R12R without panniers, tank bag and windshield, I can't imagine riding my T3 WITH any of that stuff. You can imagine the bulging pockets of my leathers and the baseball cap stuffed into my pants when I'm out on the T3 :)
The current generation of R12R does indeed have the "water" cooled heads. It's not at all the same bike as the last generation camhead I have. I greatly prefer my last generation R12R for several reasons -- not the least of which is the air/oil cooling. The R9T has this same camhead engine and drivetrain.
When the R9T was introduced, I thought it was a goofy bike and couldn't imagine many would be sold. The base bike has a Steam Punk kinda aura to it that doesn't appeal to me in the least. Apparently many others felt differently. I still don't much care for it, though I think some of the variants are nice to look at.
Best,
Carlo
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Yeah the 1200R is a decent alternative too, but it's not the same thing, nor is the motor I thought, didn't it go water-cooled on the heads? That alone would make me pick the T.
The R1200R is water cooled (heads) starting in 2015 (maybe 2014, I forget). The previous post recommending the R1200R over the R9T for touring, windshields etc, specifically said the (not longer made) cam-head R1200R (2011-2014), which has the same motor the R9T.
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The R1200R is water cooled (heads) starting in 2015 (maybe 2014, I forget). The previous post recommending the R1200R over the R9T for touring, windshields etc, specifically said the (not longer made) cam-head R1200R (2011-2014), which has the same motor the R9T.
Yeah I'd have to know and care that was called a camhead vs whatever the current is called to know that was what was meant lol.
Carlo, all fair differences. Cheers.
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Or the R1200RS -- lighter and sportier than the R1200RT, yet, still all-day comfortable.
Forgot about the new R1200RS. Great bike, I took a three hour test ride up Angeles Crest Highway. Very fun, only thing is the bike did not fit me as well as I would have thought. Which reminds me, if you test ride a BMW, make sure they tell you if it has a low or tall seat and low or tall suspension. I think the RS I rode had a low seat, thus being a bit cramped.
BMW is working hard to make their bikes fit lots of different size people.
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Forgot about the new R1200RS. Great bike, I took a three hour test ride up Angeles Crest Highway. Very fun, only thing is the bike did not fit me as well as I would have thought. Which reminds me, if you test ride a BMW, make sure they tell you if it has a low or tall seat and low or tall suspension. I think the RS I rode had a low seat, thus being a bit cramped.
BMW is working hard to make their bikes fit lots of different size people.
The R1200RS is the only current BMW that appeals to me. Not enough to trade, though.
Best,
Carlo
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ROFLMAO.
Pete's descriptions and RK's stories are what make this forum so much fun to read.
Really didn't care for the R9T for a number of the reasons mentioned but my opinion means nothing anyway since I drive a truck these days :)
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One small point , Pete has statednearly as bad about small blocks and older 2 valve big blocks :shocked: :laugh:
Dusty
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And you can also look at the opening line of my first post in this thread..... :wink:
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Why my opinion should hold significant water I don't know but on the R9T I mean just look at it!
Apart from being an obvious 'Poverty Pack' with non adjustable suspension it's a BMW which means it's got a weak gearbox and final drive that will leave you stranded and drinking your own urine in some god-forsaken desert when it breaks down or blows up! Then there is the engine which like all flat twins sounds like a horse farting in a swimming pool. It's greatest sin though is it's ugly! Not just a little bit ugly either! It exudes ugliness like a pyroclastic flow from a volcano of ugliness! It's so ugly not even it's mother could love it! It's fuel tank looks like some huge, uninsertable pessary! It's seat looks like a donkey speculum! It transcends all normal descriptions of ugly! It's so bad I reckon the reason you never see the wretched things on the road is that the morning after they've bought one their owners catch a glimpse of then out of their bedroom windows and are suddenly overwhelmed by a need to gouge their own eyes out! Service costs will be absurd and they will develop mysterious problems with their canbus a week after the warranty runs out!
Pete
It is ugly, no lines match any other, kind of like a V11 LeMans only worse.
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Just look at it. It looks like a lego or meccano contraption. Nothing flows. It looks like it’s innards are exposed, but not in a good way.
(https://cdn.gearpatrol.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/BMW-R9T-Gear-Patrol-1-1940x1300.jpg)
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This one actually looks resonably OK
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dKuHLb/Screen_Shot_2017_10_14_at_7_51_56_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/dKuHLb)
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But here is a good looking motorcycle. My next purchase this spring
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kSgQ6G/Screen_Shot_2017_10_14_at_7_54_40_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/kSgQ6G)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/f0J56G/Screen_Shot_2017_10_14_at_7_54_49_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/f0J56G)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nGFUYw/Screen_Shot_2017_10_14_at_7_54_58_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/nGFUYw)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/htxMfb/Screen_Shot_2017_10_14_at_7_55_08_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/htxMfb)
image ru (http://imgbb.com/)
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This one actually looks resonably OK
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dKuHLb/Screen_Shot_2017_10_14_at_7_51_56_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/dKuHLb)
That's the one I was thinking of when I mentioned the huge, uninsertable pessary! It looks like a project dreamed up and built in a 'Special Needs' workshop!
Pete
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That's the one I was thinking of when I mentioned the huge, uninsertable pessary! It looks like a project dreamed up and built in a 'Special Needs' workshop!
Pete
Can`t say I disagree, from the side it is rather awful!
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Can`t say I disagree, from the side it is rather awful!
So is it reasonably ok, or rather awful ?
Maybe reasonably awful. The rear of the seat looks pox...!
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But here is a good looking motorcycle. My next purchase this spring
Agreed the Norton is good looking but I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole, fine if you just want to look but if you want to ride it's a different story!
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I like the looks of these beemers and some of the modified ones,too.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iHRdT6/BMW_R_1200_nine_T_Brooklyn_Scrambler_by_GANT_Rugger.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iHRdT6)
Wish the R9T cafe white was in pearl paint.
But they are all sort of like a GRiSO without the fizz. :boozing:
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My opinion,all late model BMW's are hideous. A Griso is a nice machine but the right side view is hideous, in fact the V7 and V9's are the only new Guzzi's that look like motorcycles...But it's only opinion and no one's opinion is worth more than anyone else.
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...But it's only opinion and no one's opinion is worth more than anyone else.
Actually that's not true. The opinion of someone who usually matches the market is worth a lot more, at least to someone trying to sell to that market. [emoji6]
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..A Griso is a nice machine but the right side view is hideous,
Agreed, totally.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iv2k86/IMG_20170107_114009135_HDR.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iv2k86)
(http://imgbb.com/)
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So I'm the OP, and I appreciate all the opinions, both the informative ones and the humorous. Pete, you must be the absolute sh*t to shoot the breeze with at a party with a few beers in you, IMO the world is a MUCH better place with folks like you in it.
Anyway, aside from the Urban G/S (very nice in the flesh) I've pretty much written off the R9Ts, I just don't think they'll be right as "my only bike", just not versatile enough. Just my opinion. The Urban tugs at me, but again, I don't think it's the right move as I only want one all-purpose bike.
I do, however, think I'm just one test ride away from the t120, it really does feel right and to me it's the perfect all-purpose bike, but I have yet to ride one. I do have and really like a previous generation Bonnie, so I'm familiar with the pros and cons of the bikes, however the older models are just a bit under powered, it gets tiresome feeling like my bike is "done" at 80mph..
As I said, I do love the Grisos, but I'm just not comfortable with the dealer network, and I'd LOVE a V7 Stornello (seen one in the flesh, gorgeous machine....) but same comment applies PLUS I feel like it'll be gutless at times like my current bonnie.
Anyway, if I buy the T120 i'll report back, in case anyone is interested.
Thanks again...
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My bought new GRiSO, with 17k miles so far, has been the most reliable new bike
I've ever bought (out of 5, all different brands). I expect the following 50k to be just as reliable..
Lack of dealers at every corner (or every state!) just adds to the sense of exclusivity :boozing:
Follow your heart.
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Actually that's not true. The opinion of someone who usually matches the market is worth a lot more, at least to someone trying to sell to that market. [emoji6]
what do you mean by "someone's opinion who matches the market" Kev ?
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Agreed, totally.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/iv2k86/IMG_20170107_114009135_HDR.jpg) (http://ibb.co/iv2k86)
(http://imgbb.com/)
If you got that stinking cancerous looking radiator off the side and got it where the Norge one is, and gave some symmetry to the pipes, it'd start to please the eye.
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what do you mean by "someone's opinion who matches the market" Kev ?
I'll assume you're not just being obtuse.
Maybe I phrased it too vaguely.
The point was the someone who's opinion (taste or understanding) that tends to align with the majority is more valuable than a person with a fringe opinion shared by few, at least to those looking to sell products designed for appeal to the most customers (which really generally defines most manufacturers).
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You�re all mad! I love the Griso�s asymmetrical look. Phillistines!
:violent1:
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I'll assume you're not just being obtuse.
Maybe I phrased it too vaguely.
The point was the someone who's opinion (taste or understanding) that tends to align with the majority is more valuable than a person with a fringe opinion shared by few, at least to those looking to sell products designed for appeal to the most customers (which really generally defines most manufacturers).
And I'll assume you're not being argumentative for the sake of it.
Yes that's gotta be true that the opinion of the majority is worth more to a manufacturer because he wants to sell units just to make money. Just keep shoving stuff at people that they'll buy.
Same goes for flat pack kitchens...
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And I'll assume you're not being argumentative for the sake of it.
Nope just poking Rough...
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You�re all mad! I love the Griso�s asymmetrical look. Phillistines!
:violent1:
Yeah you may have a point Beetle.
I used to go out with a lovely girl in the 80's. She had no right arm, but had two on the left.
Beautiful ! And had something that looked like an electric toaster on her right hip, what could be nicer ?
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Nope just poking Rough...
You can poke me, I'm tough :wink: I think it was Peter Egan who said never trust a bike you can't see through, I can agree with that...Most modern bikes have dense packing and can't be trusted...
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Huzo, you kill me!!! Lol
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I'm no BMW poster boy but to my eyes the Racer 9T looks quite lovely. And the Griso? Absolutely prefect. The cooler is RIGHT there. No piss poor attempt to "style" it. Just like the Rocket 3. That radiator says "look the F*#k out, I'm coming thru"
I like that.
Opinions? kev had it right. Those BMW guys are selling the heck out of the 9T line. And the Bonnie 1200? You'll love it-I know I did.
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I'm funny, I think the 9T looks great, and the Griso, and especially most of the v current Bonnie line.
Ironically I'm more cold than hot on many Harley offerings, but I like the CX, Fat Bob, Heritage, Slim, and RK.
The V7, and V9 look good to me.... Thanks Eldo looks good out of the Cali 1400 line, and maybe the MGX, but most CARCS never looked right to me even if I mildly warmed to my B11 over the years I had her.
There's little from JAPanInc that looks right to me. And most Ducatis lose me at go.
I didn't like most Victorys either and of the Indians I might only really like the Scouts.
But I'm funny...
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I'm funny, I think the 9T looks great, and the Griso, and especially most of the v current Bonnie line.
Ironically I'm more cold than hot on many Harley offerings, but I like the CX, Fat Bob, Heritage, Slim, and RK.
The V7, and V9 look good to me.... Thanks Eldo looks good out of the Cali 1400 line, and maybe the MGX, but most CARCS never looked right to me even if I mildly warmed to my B11 over the years I had her.
There's little from JAPanInc that looks right to me. And most Ducatis lose me at go.
I didn't like most Victorys either and of the Indians I might only really like the Scouts.
But I'm funny...
I'm with you on this ...... I think BMW has done a nice job with the R9T lineup. It must be doing well, because since its introduction, several additional models have been introduced. Granted, the BMW Owners Association and BMWRA have several thousand members as a customer base for these bikes, whether Guzzi riders are interested in them or not.
Reminds me of when I parked my 1991 R100GS outside a convenience market to make a purchase. When I came back outside, an individual was lookiing at the bike. "Is this yours?" "Yep."
His comment, "these BMWs are getting stranger and stranger." "Yep ...... and this one was really strange 20 years ago when I bought it." I could give a FF what anyone thinks about any bike I ride ..... Beemer, M Guzzi, Kaw, etc, etc, etc .....If I like it, that's good enough for me.
And agreed, the new T 120 is quite a nice motorcycle. I've ridden my buddy's a couple of times and have been impressed that the bike fits him at 6'2, and me at 5'8, with no mods needed. Lots of torque, and good looks to boot.
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I do, however, think I'm just one test ride away from the t120, it really does feel right and to me it's the perfect all-purpose bike, but I have yet to ride one. I do have and really like a previous generation Bonnie, so I'm familiar with the pros and cons of the bikes, however the older models are just a bit under powered, it gets tiresome feeling like my bike is "done" at 80mph..
As I said, I do love the Grisos, but I'm just not comfortable with the dealer network, and I'd LOVE a V7 Stornello (seen one in the flesh, gorgeous machine....) but same comment applies PLUS I feel like it'll be gutless at times like my current bonnie.
Anyway, if I buy the T120 i'll report back, in case anyone is interested.
Thanks again...
You'll like the T120 -- definitely not gutless. I haven't ridden the T120, but, have risen the (standard) Thurston -- plenty of torque on tap. The T120, while, it has less HP than the Thruxton, still has all the torque.
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Weird thing is that Guzzi twins have never been symmetrical. A few years ago there was even a bloke who had just bought one who was worried because one cylinder *appeared* to be in front of the other! I nearly died laughing! The starter motor on the left, the driveshaft and bevelbox on the right, the whole thing is their appearance is quirky and asymmetric! The tangle of pipes going to the left, the side-mount oil cooler? They are just further touches that make it stand out as 'Different' from the hum-drum and run of the mill.
I'll agree that viewed from the right hand rear the stock plate holder looks intrusive and spoils the lines but most people ditch that for a tail tidy. Not a big deal. The moment I first saw the pics of the prototype I was blown away by the look and knew I had to have one, eleven years and two Griso's later I still think it's a stylistic masterpiece.
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The moment I first saw the pics of the prototype I was blown away by the look and knew I had to have one, eleven years and two Griso's later I still think it's a stylistic masterpiece.
The first time I saw a Griso prototype was in 2001, in the back room area of the Milano show. I told them that the muffler looked dumb, so did everybody else I heard, but apparently it made no difference! Regardless as a Centauro re-do I like it much better than the original.
The R9T looks like a Bauhaus inspired, slightly effeminate take on a 60s or 70s cafe Racer, done by somebody without the resources to do it right. I wouldn't gladly be seen on one.
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Weird thing is that Guzzi twins have never been symmetrical. A few years ago there was even a bloke who had just bought one who was worried because one cylinder *appeared* to be in front of the other! I nearly died laughing! The starter motor on the left, the driveshaft and bevelbox on the right, the whole thing is their appearance is quirky and asymmetric! The tangle of pipes going to the left, the side-mount oil cooler? They are just further touches that make it stand out as 'Different' from the hum-drum and run of the mill.
I'll agree that viewed from the right hand rear the stock plate holder looks intrusive and spoils the lines but most people ditch that for a tail tidy. Not a big deal. The moment I first saw the pics of the prototype I was blown away by the look and knew I had to have one, eleven years and two Griso's later I still think it's a stylistic masterpiece.
Everyone with any taste knows that's true. If it gives you a chubby, it can't be wrong.
Just taking the piss. In all seriousness, it's the the cookie cutter featureless styling of most stuff these days that are sending the whole of human nature in general and biking world in particular, hurtling toward an abyss off mediocrity and governmental regulation. Good on anyone who applauds individuality.
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I'm funny, I think the 9T looks great, and the Griso, and especially most of the v current Bonnie line.
Ironically I'm more cold than hot on many Harley offerings, but I like the CX, Fat Bob, Heritage, Slim, and RK.
The V7, and V9 look good to me.... Thanks Eldo looks good out of the Cali 1400 line, and maybe the MGX, but most CARCS never looked right to me even if I mildly warmed to my B11 over the years I had her.
There's little from JAPanInc that looks right to me. And most Ducatis lose me at go.
I didn't like most Victorys either and of the Indians I might only really like the Scouts.
But I'm funny...
Well you did say, "I'm not your normal hombre" so I'll settle for you as an "abnormal hombre".
Never short of an opinion and willing to defend it...
Good stuff.
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That's the one I was thinking of when I mentioned the huge, uninsertable pessary! It looks like a project dreamed up and built in a 'Special Needs' workshop!
Pete
Uninsertable pessary. Just wanted to write that once in my life.
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Uninsertable pessary. Just wanted to write that once in my life.
I'd dearly love to use the term, but if someone asked me what it meant, I'd be rooted !
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A pessary is a sort of pharmaceutical lozenge you push up your blurter Peter. Dear oh dear! Young people nowadays! :rolleyes: Tsk-Tsk!
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Gee!
I've learned TWO new words today! :thumb:
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This one actually looks resonably OK
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dKuHLb/Screen_Shot_2017_10_14_at_7_51_56_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/dKuHLb)
At Lake Henshaw, I saw a bike that looked like this and it said something to the effect of the R9T on one of the side covers.
If this is the bike in question: I thought it looked nice. Looked like a race bike with the fairing set up that you would see at a Superbike type track or Isle Of Mann. It was not ugly. Maybe like an old school racer. If I wanted a bike that I would put my chin on the tank to be under the fairing, this would be on my list.
Just my 2 cents,
Tom
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But here is a good looking motorcycle. My next purchase this spring
Agreed the Norton is good looking but I wouldn't touch one with a barge pole, fine if you just want to look but if you want to ride it's a different story!
You ridden one? The reviews are quite good.
2 year old review, I would think they addressed some of the issues
https://www.cycleworld.com/2015-norton-commando-961-sport-standard-motorcycle-review-road-test
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A pessary is a sort of pharmaceutical lozenge you push up your blurter Peter. Dear oh dear! Young people nowadays! :rolleyes: Tsk-Tsk!
Does it come with a mirror ?
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Dunno? They are a very French thing. I generally try and work on the principle that my blurter is a one way valve. Having had several invasive examinations *Up There* due to age I am very happy to say that every time I was well and truly asleep!
Pete
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Dunno? They are a very French thing. I generally try and work on the principle that my blurter is a one way valve. Having had several invasive examinations *Up There* due to age I am very happy to say that every time I was well and truly asleep!
Pete
I feel a thread coming on...
It is an amazing piece of kit, fair to say !
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I feel a thread coming on...
It is an amazing piece of kit, fair to say !
Have one of those inserted up yer blurter and you will have more than a thread coming on! :evil:
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Have one of those inserted up yer blurter and you will have more than a thread coming on! :evil:
I went to the doctor for my middle aged male examination.
He put on his rubber glove and slid his wristwatch up a bit and extended a digit.
He only used one and I asked could he use two, he said why ? I said I'd like a second opinion! :drool:
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ye ha
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Uh , picking on people for their looks is in bad taste fellas .
Dusty
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Uh , picking on people for their looks is in bad taste fellas .
Dusty
well said
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I found that a both tasteless and puerile. It's possible to criticise something's looks without anthropomorphising surely?
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Did you get my sisters permission to post her picture?
Do we really need this?
Good Grief!!!
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Poor woman. I recently read an article about her condition. She has lived with this since day one. I doubt she is looking for sympathy, simply looking for acceptance.
Bob
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It's gone fellas . We may not have a lot of taste , but we do have some . Besides , I've met a bunch of you guys , it ain't like most of us are Clark Gable :rolleyes: Although Kirby does bear a striking resemblance to a younger Clint Eastwood :grin:
Now back to the beemer bashing , which is all in good fun , or should be .
Dusty
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Thanks!
I don't care what they say about you Mr. D...your OK!!!
C
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Thanks!
I don't care what they say about you Mr. D...your OK!!!
C
Fortunately for me I don't care what they say about me either :laugh:
Dusty
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Fortunately for me I don't care what they say about me either :laugh:
Dusty
PM
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PM
AM ? Dunno .
Dusty
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I found that a both tasteless and puerile. It's possible to criticise something's looks without anthropomorphising surely?
You bloody well did not !
(Or did you?)
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Thanks!
I don't care what they say about you Mr. D...your OK!!!
C
He's OK
(https://images.rapgenius.com/96545bf3631e64d4505211b2b05f4705.600x341x1.jpg)
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He's OK
(https://images.rapgenius.com/96545bf3631e64d4505211b2b05f4705.600x341x1.jpg)
Damn that was some funny stuff :laugh: However last time I checked that guy was a Brit :rolleyes:
Dusty
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You bloody well did not !
(Or did you?)
Yes I did.
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If you love the GRiSO, BUY the GRiSO ; to hell with the "network". I expect to own my GRiSO well after my local dealer is long closed.
I am sure I will have no trouble finding a competent independent to work on it when the time comes. In the mean time I'm a one bike guy and I am happy with performance all around.
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Yes I did.
Ok
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Beemer bashing? I'll play. Went out last weekend for a ride with a friend to WV. Me on my Mighty Zed and him on the famous Bavarian machine. Here I am next to the bikes as we wait 7 hours for a tow truck to come rescue his blown transmission:
(https://scontent.fagc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22539780_10213517612630356_418750804490965906_n.jpg?oh=ba91214f98c73115ce9db3ad1d1ecc60&oe=5A6F3432)
After the sun set, we pushed his bike down to the local school in Belly Lint, WV where there was more light.
(https://scontent.fagc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22489792_10213517843956139_1657201537979876072_n.jpg?oh=7e71995df1ad4f3095758f15da50a71a&oe=5A7DFF5F)
(https://scontent.fagc1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22489760_10213517845196170_85220536765914712_n.jpg?oh=feb6d3890b2957433857593205a6a241&oe=5A7BF37A)
The MZ ran flawlessly.
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Can I play? Pfffft. Bavarian Money Wasters. :smiley:
The other day I heard "Bitch, Moan, Whine.." <shrug>
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The one I really liked was told I think by the sadly missed Todd Haven of MPH. One of Mike's customers was a young hotshot lawyer who was black. He had some incredibly upmarket BMW sedan and it kept breaking down and he got no satisfaction from the 'Official' service network so it ended up at MPH on the back of a truck for the umpteenth time. After Mike had fixed it he came in to pick it up and pointed to the roundel on the bonnet and asked one of the Havens, dunno which one, what they thought BMW stood for. A bit perplexed there was a pause and he explained that he was pretty sure it meant 'Black Man, Walking' :bow:
So much win!
Pete
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Pete, I got a "for sure" Lol out of that one.. :thumb:
RIP, Todd.. you were a character of the highest order.. :(
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Ok, I will resurrect this thread....just heard about / seen the 2018 R9T "Pure" model. If I was ever to own a BMW, this would be the one. Priced close to what I can afford, and seems like a nice ride. Other than "looks", anything to watch out for? Are the gear boxes / final drives that weak on them?
Home maintenance as easy as a Guzzi?
Thanks...
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Why my opinion should hold significant water I don't know but on the R9T I mean just look at it!
Apart from being an obvious 'Poverty Pack' with non adjustable suspension it's a BMW which means it's got a weak gearbox and final drive that will leave you stranded and drinking your own urine in some god-forsaken desert when it breaks down or blows up! Then there is the engine which like all flat twins sounds like a horse farting in a swimming pool. It's greatest sin though is it's ugly! Not just a little bit ugly either! It exudes ugliness like a pyroclastic flow from a volcano of ugliness! It's so ugly not even it's mother could love it! It's fuel tank looks like some huge, uninsertable pessary! It's seat looks like a donkey speculum! It transcends all normal descriptions of ugly! It's so bad I reckon the reason you never see the wretched things on the road is that the morning after they've bought one their owners catch a glimpse of then out of their bedroom windows and are suddenly overwhelmed by a need to gouge their own eyes out! Service costs will be absurd and they will develop mysterious problems with their canbus a week after the warranty runs out!
I strongly urge you to run, not walk, RUN away from anything made by Bring More Wallet and book into one of the many counselling services that offer a seven step programme to cure you of this unhealthy fascination.
Pete
I take it that you're not recommending it then Peter? Great use of English it its finest form. Well done.
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Ok, I will resurrect this thread....just heard about / seen the 2018 R9T "Pure" model. If I was ever to own a BMW, this would be the one. Priced close to what I can afford, and seems like a nice ride. Other than "looks", anything to watch out for? Are the gear boxes / final drives that weak on them?
Home maintenance as easy as a Guzzi?
Thanks...
Despite the curmudgeon crew, that's the one I would consider.
I can't imagine there's anything necessary too daunting in terms of maintenance, but those who know them better will chime in I'm sure.
I can't imagine Jay would have bought his new water-head boxer if he was going to be a dealer slave, that's not his style.
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I have had 4 BMWs starting with the iconic r100rs, easily the most beautiful to my eyes. Next the 1100rs, 1150rt and finally, the ill-fated k1200rs. I took many trips and logged appx. 120k miles which is pretty good for a person who works a regular scheduled. I was a big fan in spite of the quirkiness of some of them. It helped that I could perform the routine upkeep otherwise dealer service would have quickly quenched my fire. However, the dreaded rear drive death visited me at 39,500 miles on a beautiful Sunday afternoon this past July. I had heard about this potential problem since I started riding BMWs in 1998, but never thought it would happen to me. So, for the first time in all my BMW ownership, I trailered a bike. To the independent mechanic/Guzzi dealer she went and was traded for the Blu Guzz. I try to focus more on the many enjoyable trips and miles I had rather than the ignoble end.
As for the R9T, my opinion is that it was a bold step for a company as ass-crack tight as BMW and I salute them for taking it. If you are really used to BMW's as I am, it doesn't seem so bad but my biggest problem with the styling is that super dense midsection contrasted by the open rear and front - to me, it might as well be an electric machine with a battery pack. With their long warranty, I would not worry about buying a new one from a reliability perspective.
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Ok, I will resurrect this thread....just heard about / seen the 2018 R9T "Pure" model. If I was ever to own a BMW, this would be the one. Priced close to what I can afford, and seems like a nice ride. Other than "looks", anything to watch out for? Are the gear boxes / final drives that weak on them?
Home maintenance as easy as a Guzzi?
Thanks...
My experience in Guzzi maintenance is with the 850BB and the 1100BB. My experience with BMW is with K1100, K75, and R12 camhead (what's in the R90T).
The Beemer maintenance was not as easy as the Guzzi. But then few things are that easy :)
That said, with the camhead, routine maintenance can be done at home with the addition of a couple of tools, readily available from the aftermarket. The R90T brake system, however, is another story. Best leave that to the pros, IMO.
Anything beyond fluid changes, plug changes, valve adjustment, battery change, is probably going to need a visit to the dealer for most people.
Best,
Carlo
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Come on Pete, don't soft pedal it. Tell us what you really think.
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I'm genuinely fond of the old airheads aesthetically, but whenever I encounter the new stuff, I remind myself that Better Motorcycles are Waiting...at my Guzzi dealer... :cool:
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I'm genuinely fond of the old airheads aesthetically, but whenever I encounter the new stuff, I remind myself that Better Motorcycles are Waiting...somewhere else... :cool:
FTFY :evil:
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I can't imagine Jay would have bought his new water-head boxer if he was going to be a dealer slave, that's not his style.
Since the bike in question is the R9T, I'll comment on that first. The Camhead motor in the R9T is the most mature and refined of the 1170cc air/oil-cooled boxer. It is a very versatile motor with a nice broad torque curve. The Camhead is smoother, and revs a little more freely than the earlier hex-head from which it is derived.
BMW makes sometimes-yearly refinements to their bikes. The final drive issues of the earlier 1200's (starting in 2005 with the R1200GS) seem to have been resolved by the time the camped came around in 2010 on the RT (& GS, I think) and 2011 on the R1200R.
To address Roper's "Poverty Pack" comment about the Pure's suspension, I haven't ridden the Pure (or Racer which has the same suspension), but, really enjoyed riding the original R9T, though, that one has an inverted fork (which, IIRC, is adjustable). That said, while "Poverty Pack" is a good description for the stock suspension on my 2014 V7 Special, the R9T Pure and Racer suspension, while lower priced than the original R9T, are certainly not deserving of Roper's "Poverty Pack" description. One of my riding buddies has an R9T Racer, and speaks well of the suspension on it, though he is considering an Ohlins rear shock. To give his comments a frame of reference, he is pretty picky with suspension, some of his past rides being a Ducati ST2 that he upgraded with Ohlins on the back, and Race Tech gold-valve on the front, my R1200RS (non ESA model), R1200S, R1100S, Triumph Street Triple R (the R = higher spec adjustable suspension).
OK, back to the water cooled boxer (not on topic for the R9T), but, addressing Kev's comment, I've got several riding friends with R1200GS's with the same motor that have had trouble free service with them. Currently, I think the highest miles on them is about 20k, as the one friend was hit by a car on his first one (a 2014) after 16k trouble free miles in less than a year, and then put 12k trouble free miles on the 2015 that replaced it, then bought a 2016 with his employee discount (works part time at a BMW dealer) because he got a really good deal on it, and had a ready and willing buyer for his 2015 at a price that gave him the 2016 for like $1,500 more. He put around 14k miles on that 2016, also trouble free. That said, none of these bikes has more than 20k on them yet, so, we'll see. BUT -- a lot of reported troubles with modern vehicles in general seem to be initial-quality problems that show up in the first year or so.
My particular R1200RS is the non-ESA model (electronic adjustable suspension), so, that is one less electronic doodad to worry about having problems with. I bought an Ohlins rear shocks for it for $775 from Revzilla's Black Friday sale. The Ohlins is, IMHO, better than the ESA. ESA is not necessary with Ohlins, as it has the comfort of ESA's "comfort" setting, and sure-footed handling of ESA's "Sport" setting w/o having to push a button (or spin a wiz-wheel) to change the suspension settings.
Time will tell if this bike is as reliable as I hope. So far, it has been a great replacement for my Breva 1100 that I sold two years ago, and is everything I liked about that bike, plus more power, cruise control, and adjustable windscreen. The Breva had to go after two failed speedometer clusters and a clutch that came apart at only 25k miles.
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Jay I think you managed to give as much info as possible without ever really answering the question.
Will your or the 9T require any dealer only maintenance? Is there anything periodic the would require a dealer visit?
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Jay I think you managed to give as much info as possible without ever really answering the question.
Will your or the 9T require any dealer only maintenance? Is there anything periodic the would require a dealer visit?
No, periodic maintenance can be done at home.
Fluid changes are like a guzzi, separate oil for engine, transmission, and final drive (the water cooled boxer is unit construction, so, on that one, engine and transmission oil are common). Brake service, both changing of pads, and flushing fluid (so long as you don't get air into it, then you might need the dealer to connect their computer to flush the ABS pump), is all standard stuff you can do at home.
Valve adjustment is shim, but, being a boxer, accessibility is great, no need to spend an hour on removing and re-installing bodywork. Also, being shim, I would think that it'll go 15-20k or more w/o requiring a shim change. And, if it does, you'll likely change them once, and then go 40k or so until shim changes are required again.
The service light, like many modern bikes, does require either a special tool, or a trip to the dealer.
http://www.gs911usa.com (http://www.gs911usa.com)
$399 is pretty steep for a diagnostics tool, IMHO, but, it it can do up to 10 different VIN's, more than that requires the $799 model (aimed at independent shops). It is certainly more than just a service light reset tool, it is a diagnostic tool that will be invaluable should any electrical gremlins show up, and even for simple sensor or switch problems.
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I put 50 miles or so on a new R9T Scrambler. It was a blast.
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My particular R1200RS is the non-ESA model (electronic adjustable suspension), so, that is one less electronic doodad to worry about having problems with. I bought an Ohlins rear shocks for it for $775 from Revzilla's Black Friday sale. The Ohlins is, IMHO, better than the ESA. ESA is not necessary with Ohlins, as it has the comfort of ESA's "comfort" setting, and sure-footed handling of ESA's "Sport" setting w/o having to push a button (or spin a wiz-wheel) to change the suspension settings.
Time will tell if this bike is as reliable as I hope. So far, it has been a great replacement for my Breva 1100 that I sold two years ago, and is everything I liked about that bike, plus more power, cruise control, and adjustable windscreen. The Breva had to go after two failed speedometer clusters and a clutch that came apart at only 25k miles.
I also have had an enjoyable and trouble-free time with the leftover 2016 R12RS I bought last spring. I picked it up for $18K out-the-door with side cases. It is fully optioned, to my utter delight. The on-the-fly adjustable suspension and engine mode features also influence ABS and traction control parameters keeping my mind from making bad promises. The cruise control appeals to me for long days, and the Navigation unit integrates with the bikes sensors to make critical information available real-time on the Nav-screen. I had to make a few ergonomic adjustments, but this bike is my traveler. It never feels stressed and will comfortly take me 200+ miles on a single tank of gas. Though it is plenty powerful as stock, for under $2K the engine can be made to gain 15hp and 15 ft lbs of torque without touching any more than the exhaust system and the ECU. My Vintage still has BFF status wrapped up, but this is a game changing bike. I look forward to using it in the Northern Rockies...
Oh, and the maintenance is a little more expensive, but at least my dealer is here in town. If I need to bring the Guzzi to a dealer it’s a 200 mile one way trip and a hotel room for a night or two...
(http://preview.ibb.co/jnRqZ6/D4_C3_FC38_3_AA1_4_AD6_86_ED_878_EA806_B345.jpg) (http://ibb.co/i184u6)
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SheepDog- I've ridden one. great bike.
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Well, I took a look at the R9T - range. In my eyes all look hideous (but that are my eyes). On the Racer I cannot sit, but obviously I cannot sit on any of those "Racers" as the Thruxton R also feels very uncomfortable for me. On the Pure I sit really good. But comparing the crude finish of details of this bike (the surfaces of several metal parts, e.g. the handlebars) with the quality that is delivered by Guzzi and Triumph - oh my!
The last BMW I really truly loved was the R100RS.
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I put a fair number of miles on several BMWs over the years, starting in 1985.
65000 1985 K100RS
10000 1988 K75S
43000 1989 K100RS ABS
152817 1991 R100GS
9000 1993 K1100LT
14264 1993 K1100RS
32753 1995 R1100RS
2999 1990 K1
41670 1999 K1200RS
16984 2003 R1150R Rockster (should have kept this one and put a lot more miles on it.)
388487 TOTAL
Ones I would consider doing again:
K100RS 16 valve (90-91 model year)
K75S
R100GS (with lower mileage than current ride)
K1200RS
R1150R Rockster
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Dunno , the one I rode was a real ripper .
Dusty
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Pete just convinced me....I think I need to have one. :cool: :boozing:
I agree the R9T is as I describe awkward looking could have a more homgeneous flow of style. And it by no means compares to the svelt look of the R1100,1150,1200R's
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Heh man, anthropomorphists are people too.
I found that a both tasteless and puerile. It's possible to criticise something's looks without anthropomorphising surely?
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Heh man, anthropomorphists are people too.
I wasn't anthopomorphising! I was comparing it to assorted fictitious medical products and surgical instruments! The closest I came is describing it as a turd! But I didn't specify the species that provided the Turd! :P
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I was-a making de joke cobber.
I wasn't anthopomorphising! I was comparing it to assorted fictitious medical products and surgical instruments! The closest I came is describing it as a turd! But I didn't specify the species that provided the Turd! :P
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As was I George :boozing:
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Ok, I will resurrect this thread....just heard about / seen the 2018 R9T "Pure" model. If I was ever to own a BMW, this would be the one. Priced close to what I can afford, and seems like a nice ride. Other than "looks", anything to watch out for? Are the gear boxes / final drives that weak on them?
Home maintenance as easy as a Guzzi?
Thanks...
Sat on one at the local BMW/Guzzi dealer and the reach to the bars was as far as it is to my Daytona RS so I can't imagine anything more than a 200 mile ride for me, maybe less with that BMW engine. They aren't selling very many of those bikes from what I have been told and I'd negotiate a deal before accepting any price from your dealer. Not a bad looking bike except for those red/blue colors.
Don't know anything more, never owned a BMW.
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What's the matter with the motor?
Somebody will know for sure but I thought I read the R9T was the top or second most popular bike for BMW.
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What's the matter with the motor?
Somebody will know for sure but I thought I read the R9T was the top or second most popular bike for BMW.
Motor is similar but different from a Guzzi big block in that you keep the RPMs up in the middle of the torque range and then let it eat. Very enjoyable motor IMHO. Doesn't have as nice of a sound as a Guzzi, though.
round where I ride I don't see as many R9T's as I do GS's and R/RS/RT's. Probably see twice as many K1600's as R9T's.
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Motor is similar but different from a Guzzi big block in that you keep the RPMs up in the middle of the torque range and then let it eat. Very enjoyable motor IMHO. Doesn't have as nice of a sound as a Guzzi, though.
round where I ride I don't see as many R9T's as I do GS's and R/RS/RT's. Probably see twice as many K1600's as R9T's.
The camhead engine doesn't seem to have a sweet spot. It's fairly linear all the way to the rev limiter :evil: In some ways it feels like a much stronger K75.
I keep mine at ≥3,000 RPM and it's happy.
Best,
Carlo
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The camhead engine doesn't seem to have a sweet spot. It's fairly linear all the way to the rev limiter :evil: In some ways it feels like a much stronger K75.
I keep mine at ≥3,000 RPM and it's happy.
Best,
Carlo
The Wasserboxer is pretty much the same, but more. :laugh:
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In some ways it feels like a much stronger K75.
Damning with faint praise. :smiley: I may have ridden a bike with a more boring engine than a K75, but don't remember it.
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I KNOW the difference between a Guzzi motor and a Boxer. It was a general question-what's wrong with the boxer?
The 9T I rode was a total riot to push thru the twisties. I didn't find much to not like, if anything. Different, yes. "Bad?". Nope.
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Damning with faint praise. :smiley: I may have ridden a bike with a more boring engine than a K75, but don't remember it.
This is surprising. Nay, shocking! You being such a Beemer fan and all :evil: :evil: :evil:
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Seriously, Chuck, I understand your feeling. But I gotta tell you that I run into that rev limiter pretty frequently. It's really something to ride a bike that doesn't run out of breath toward redline and just keeps pulling. There's no indication that it's time to shift -- and no way I'm looking at the tach with the throttle pinned :)
And the wet heads are even stronger!
Best,
Carlo
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Below are the sales figures for BMW from 2015 (the most recent I could find). The R9T does well, despite the fact that it was a single model at the time. However, the GS is overwhelmingly the biggest seller...
No. Model Units Sold % of BMW Sales
1 R1200GS 23,681 18.2%
2 R1200GS Adventure 18,011 13.8%
3 R1200RT 10,955 8.4%
4 S1000RR 9,576 7.3%
5 R nineT 9,545 7.3%
6 R1200R 6,951 5.3%
7 F800GS 6,603 5.1%
8 S1000R 6,473 5.0%
9 F700GS 6,282 4.8%
10 F800R 5,971 4.6%
11 S1000XR 5,061 3.9%
12 K1600GT/GTL 4,866 3.7%
13 C650GT & C600 Sport 4,530 3.5%
14 R1200RS 4,208 3.2%
15 F800GS Adventure 4,129 3.2%
16 F800GT 2,631 2.0%
17 C Evolution 957 0.7%
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Below are the sales figures for BMW from 2015 (the most recent I could find). The R9T does well, despite the fact that it was a single model at the time. However, the GS is overwhelmingly the biggest seller...
No. Model Units Sold % of BMW Sales
1 R1200GS 23,681 18.2%
2 R1200GS Adventure 18,011 13.8%
3 R1200RT 10,955 8.4%
4 S1000RR 9,576 7.3%
5 R nineT 9,545 7.3%
6 R1200R 6,951 5.3%
7 F800GS 6,603 5.1%
8 S1000R 6,473 5.0%
9 F700GS 6,282 4.8%
10 F800R 5,971 4.6%
11 S1000XR 5,061 3.9%
12 K1600GT/GTL 4,866 3.7%
13 C650GT & C600 Sport 4,530 3.5%
14 R1200RS 4,208 3.2%
15 F800GS Adventure 4,129 3.2%
16 F800GT 2,631 2.0%
17 C Evolution 957 0.7%
Hey, Sheepdog, thanks for the stats. I'm glad BMW is here to show some of the other Euro manufacturers that if they do it right (marketing, parts availability, dealer support, club support (MOA, RA) etc) it is possible to sell 100,000 bikes in a year. What I appreciate is that they haven't taken one model and tried to make 5 or 6 models out if it by simply applying different paint.
I haven't bought one of their bikes new since 2003 ('04 Rockster) but over the years, I've enjoyed their dealers, fellow riders, and their bikes. If I wasn't so retired and on fixed income, I'd do another one ..... probably an R1200R with bags.
Bob
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You bet, Bob. I think it’s extraordinary that 49% of the bike’s sold that year were liquid-cooled boxers. I wonder if that has changed...