Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Pisano on November 01, 2017, 09:32:42 PM
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I had a mechanic tell me that I should store my bike over the winter with conventional oil ratther than synthetic (What the Griso calls for)
Something to do about the lack of cleaners in synthetic oil and it will stick better to steel over long periods of time.
Any of you fine folks do this or believe its a good idea?
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I say bunk. is he trying to sell you an oil change service?
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Nope
He knew I was changing the oil myself
I was actually going to buy his pricer synthetic 10w60
:huh:
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If you only change the oil once a year change it just before you put it into storage then run it for the next season. Get the dirty stuff out and replace it with clean. That's all you need to do.
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I'd love to know where he studied chemistry, or whether he can point to a service bulletin from any engine manufacturer that supports that approach.
And what kind of conventional 10w60 was he going to suggest? Or was he also suggesting a non-spec weight for the oil?
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Oh FFS! No no no no no!
Morons abound! Sack your mechanic.
:violent1:
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Oh FFS! No no no no no!
Morons abound! Sack your mechanic.
:violent1:
I'm not sure "mechanic" is the word the OP should be using.
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He is referring to an oil's polarity when he talks of "sticking" or "clinging" to the metal. The mechanic is CORRECT with regard to a fake synthetic consisting of a Group III base oil. Group III has poor polarity for metal cling. However, so does a true synthetic that is Group IV (4) based (PolyAlphaOlefin or 'PAO'). Conventional petroleum based oils are typically Group II+ these days and have good metal cling (polarity). Group V (5) based synthetics (Di-Ester, Polyol Ester base oils) have excellent polarity for cling and you will often see marketing statements on an ester based oil's label about it. Silkolene's "electro syntec" buzzwords and etc.
Take away: Best oils for long term storage are conventional or an ester based synthetic.
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Take away: Best oils for long term storage are conventional or an ester based synthetic.
Define "long term" - I mean, over winter is hardly long.
Don't we have a member here who is rebuilding an airhead parked in 1993 - and after 23 YEARS of storage the oil (presumably conventional) is still coating everything internally and there's no sign of corrosion/pitting.
So does that mean a Group III base oil synthetic might only cling for 10 or 15 years?
Much ado about...
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The mechanic might be referring to a different storage practice; change the oil before storage so the dirty oil isn't sitting in the engine. At spring startup put in fresh quality oil, so you're not running all summer on "old" oil that's been sitting all winter.
Joe
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The mechanic might be referring to a different storage practice; change the oil before storage so the dirty oil isn't sitting in the engine. At spring startup put in fresh quality oil, so you're not running all summer on "old" oil that's been sitting all winter.
Joe
Well that's just as stupid unless winter storage = CONSTANT WILD temperature swings and exposure to more than just the elements.
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Just to stir the pot................ ...... :evil:
Years ago, when I flew model airplanes. Everyone was just starting to switch to synthetic oil, in the two stroke fuel. A bad side effect, was that the engines would rust badly in storage. So it was recommended that you use a non-synthetic, just before putting it away for storage. Or use some other means of getting non-synthetic oil into the motor. Me, i blended in a small amount of castor oil into the fuel. Loved the smell. :embarassed:
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Just to stir the pot................ ...... :evil:
Years ago, when I flew model airplanes. Everyone was just starting to switch to synthetic oil, in the two stroke fuel. A bad side effect, was that the engines would rust badly in storage. So it was recommended that you use a non-synthetic, just before putting it away for storage. Or use some other means of getting non-synthetic oil into the motor. Me, i blended in a small amount of castor oil into the fuel. Loved the smell. :embarassed:
Wayne, why did syth oil lead to rust? Not seeing the causation...
Kev, some people don't have inside storage, and over-winter outside under a tarp. So yes, they get temp variations and greater exposure to moisture. Changing the oil before / after storage is a theory, and I can't say it's a terrible one.
Joe
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Just to stir the pot some more.. one of the biggest aircraft engine builders in the country won't guarantee their rebuild unless you use dino oil. I've mentioned in another thread that rust is your engine's biggest enemy. Lycomings, with their camshaft located in the top of the engine are particularly bad about rusting their cams. Many, if not most aircraft engines are seldom run, and that is the basis for their finding, I'll bet.
That said
If you only change the oil once a year change it just before you put it into storage then run it for the next season. Get the dirty stuff out and replace it with clean. That's all you need to do.
That's what I do with airplanes and motorcycles. The Monza is on the lift as we speak.
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Kev, some people don't have inside storage, and over-winter outside under a tarp. So yes, they get temp variations and greater exposure to moisture. Changing the oil before / after storage is a theory, and I can't say it's a terrible one.
No, it's about as good a theory as vaccines cause autism.
I said CONSTANT WILD temp swings. In circumstances like that a little bit of moisture might form, but it's nothing and will burn off come spring. All the years in the marine tech industry I never saw a single manufacturer who thought it necessary to change the oil both before and after storage, not a one. I have never seen a motorcycle manufacturer recommend it either.
It's going to take more than just a few seasonal temp swings and even storage near the ocean to promote conditions where one winter = another oil change.
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Just to stir the pot some more.. one of the biggest aircraft engine builders in the country won't guarantee their rebuild unless you use dino oil.
Really? I'd like to hear more about this, especially since syth oil is supposed to be the hot stuff.
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Years ago, when I flew model airplanes. Everyone was just starting to switch to synthetic oil, in the two stroke fuel. A bad side effect, was that the engines would rust badly in storage. So it was recommended that you use a non-synthetic, just before putting it away for storage.
We've seen some examples of this with Kawasaki triples having crank bearing rusting when stored over a winter, having been last run on synthetic oil. I didn't keep track of what synthetic oil or any other specifics, because I have always used conventional oil in my 2-stroke engines and have never had an oil related engine problem.
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We've seen some examples of this with Kawasaki triples having crank bearing rusting when stored over a winter, having been last run on synthetic oil. I didn't keep track of what synthetic oil or any other specifics, because I have always used conventional oil in my 2-stroke engines and have never had an oil related engine problem.
The crank roller bearings or crank pin is what would rust on the two stroke models engines.
A touch of castor oil in the fuel would leave a nice smelly layer of goo to protect it.
I don't know the details of why. But I saw the evidence of rusting with synthetic.
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My SWAG would the big difference in the way oil is distributed in a typical 2-stroke vs. a pressure lubricated 4-stroke might have a bit to do with it. A lot of the bigger marine 2-strokes added pressure lubrication to bearing surfaces in addition to the standard 2-stroke method of lubrication and perhaps that's why they also could move to recommending synthetic 2-stroke oils more than a decade ago.
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I did an on-line search re synth oils and rust. Sources say rusting on 2 cycl engines is an issue, and synth oil is blamed. Not so much info about 4 cycl engines. As usual, the truth is hard to uncover.
On oil, reportedly different base chemicals can be used to make synth oils, and some of the bases have anti-rust properties below that of regular dino oil.
Not sure if this is an answer, or even its veracity.
https://www.gregraven.org/hotwater/oil/ (https://www.gregraven.org/hotwater/oil/)
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Really? I'd like to hear more about this, especially since syth oil is supposed to be the hot stuff.
All I know is what The Kid told me. He runs the airframe shop, but that is the word from the engine shop. He mentioned it to me when we were doing the annual inspection on the Colt,
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1640/25508533042_8e67f54bbd_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ES6UaQ)1-002 (https://flic.kr/p/ES6UaQ) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
and I was running AeroShell 15-50.
Just the same, this is a high time engine.. 1800 hours since new.. and has been run on 15-50 for many years. I am loathe to change oil types on a high time engine. Different additives can break loose crud that has been sitting happily in galleries, etc. for years and give the engine an enema. Don't ask me how I know..
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My two vintage Triumph race bikes get to the LSR track once a year...They have full synthetic oil in them that I don't change during the year.....I tear down the engines once a year for inspection...I have never seen any rust inside.....Millions of bike and summer use cars with synthetic oil are stored during the winter often in unheated garages...Are there horror stories of ruined engines other than a few that might be from unusual situations...?