Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Guzzi Gal on December 16, 2017, 06:17:01 PM
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The plan was to ride to a local dealer hosting an Indian Demo Day, then do whatever. That was the plan.
Nothing seemed to be going right, our coms weren't working (several different issues), the wind had picked up bringing errant sprinkles with it, so we scrapped the ride, put the bikes away, and drove the Odessey. If the universe didn't want us to mount up, there must be a good reason.
Once at the dealer, all went well. The chickies in their shorty-short shorts were pleasant (even though they were shivering) asking each participant what they wanted to ride. When it was my turn, the tiny Asian girl, with painted on eyebrows, and outrageously blue contact lenses asked me the following:
She- Will you be his passenger today?
Me- Who? :huh: Oh, hell no, I'm riding my own.
She- :laugh: Good answer!
Me- :grin:
It was going to be about twenty minutes before the next available ride, so I went to sit on the display Bobber and get a feel for it. First thing I noticed was how comfortable a 25" seat height can be. With the seat height, the weight feels nice and low, making it easy to just hang out on. Then I put my left foot on the peg to test ease of getting my boot under to shift. Unless I was scooted up against the tank, it wasn't going to work, and I hoped the demo unit was properly adjusted, or my ride would be over before it started.
The moment I was able to sit the demo, I checked the shift lever and was relieved to find adequate room for my boot. One of the ride associates came up to tell me I had to hold my horses and listen to the pre-ride instructions. I explained my reason for jumping the gun, and he said that he had done all of the pre-demo adjustments before these bikes had gone out the first time and understood exactly what I was talking about.
With the instructions over, we were off, and luckily I was last. I'm not a speedy gal off the stop, nor am I fast up to the same. I like to pull away smoothly (theoretically), cruise along, and keep my feet off the ground as long as possible before being forced to ground. Being a newb, this behavior is more pronounced when on a new bike. The sweeper put up with my light "slingshot" riding nicely.
The lead rider pulls out, I put it in 1st and slowly release the clutch. Nothing happens. Ah, familiar territory, my Anni ignores 1st sometimes, try again. And again. Eureka! We pull onto the street, the clutch catches further from the grip than I'm used to so I slip it a bit, but it's nice on the hand. Time for second gear NOT, I get neutral three times, but the fouth she caught. Whew, nothing like a new bike to make you look like an ID10T!
At the first stop, the sweeper pulls alongside and asked if I'm OK. I explained the issue and received instruction on how placing my toe fully under the lever works well. :lipsrsealed: :thumb: I just give a nod as, thankfully, the light turned green.
Once we hit our very brief freeway leg, I kicked the Bobber up to 85mph, and it was happy to comply. I felt no hesitation, no vibration, unlike Anni, and the even the wind on my chest was minimal, much less than the V7 III. I also didn't notice any "bobblehead" action, which could be due to the forward leaning ride position. I did notice with acceleration, I slipped back in the roomy one-seater and had to keep repositioning myself forward. Annoying, but not a dealbreaker.
I found myself enjoying the Bobber's song but missed the Guzzy "burble" and engine movement when the throttle is tweaked. Our route was a 4ish mile rectangle, with zero twisties, and several stoplights. I had to satisfy myself with in-lane swervelets to test flickability, and Bobby was happy to oblige.
All in all, he's a nice ride that I'd be willing to explore more, given the chance. However, for the price, I'd still take a V7 III with it's included bells and whistles, over the base Indian Scout Bobber. Besides, once you ride a Moto Guzzi you're kind of ruined for anything else.
:bike-037: ~Ride on!
I just found this pic on fb. I'm the one with the white and light blue helmet sitting like a topknot on my head, third from the right.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/dcMU76/25353677_752204928312255_5381907321174805016_n.jpg) (http://ibb.co/dcMU76)
upload to album (http://imgbb.com/)
Here are the Hotpant Gals.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/h6zAEm/25398863_752204951645586_6935015496865462493_n.jpg) (http://ibb.co/h6zAEm)
(http://thumb.ibb.co/d5w7um/image_4.jpg) (http://ibb.co/d5w7um)
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I like your story telling girl you have . . . . flare !
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Interesting review on the Indian. Not my cup of tea, but respect their efforts. Polaris recently killed off Victory, sure hope they keep Indian going. Nice choice of jacket I like the hi-vis highlights. I'm going to be ordering a yellow Firstgear mesh tex before spring arrives.
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I like your story telling girl you have . . . . flare !
I'm not a writer by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm glad it worked for you.
Interesting review on the Indian. Not my cup of tea, but respect their efforts. Polaris recently killed off Victory, sure hope they keep Indian going. Nice choice of jacket I like the hi-vis highlights. I'm going to be ordering a yellow Firstgear mesh tex before spring arrives.
Here is my night attire (pink X marks the spot). :thumb:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/kghVEm/fullsizeoutput_30a.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kghVEm)
I was into sleek faired touring style bikes (BMW K1600 or similar) before I sat on a V7 III. I LOVED Victory's styling and was sad to hear Polaris put an end to the brand. I'm not much for the current crop of Harleys, but the Indians have always appealed to my eye. There are very few things I truly dislike in this world, mosquitos being one, but they support bats, which I love so...
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I'm sure it's a quality product but I think the engine looks like crap.
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I hear my older Bro has just bought a new Scout, haven't spoken to him about it yet, I can never catch him home.
Kiwi-Kev and I tried to talk him into a Guzzi but he didn't see one he liked.
He's just turned 76, had a Sportster for the last few years so I think the Indian will be a natural progression.
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"Besides, once you ride a Moto Guzzi you're kind of ruined for anything else." :bow:
I concur. :thumb:
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" I did notice with acceleration, I slipped back in the roomy one-seater and had to keep repositioning myself forward."
I have the same problem with my HD. Found a seat with a decent back stop so I don't don't feel like I'm going to slide off.
Tom
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At the risk of appearing to mansplain shifting, but knowing you're a newer rider, might I ask a question/offer a suggestion or two?
Do you think you ever grab the clutch lever and hold it for a second or two before placing the bike in gear at a stop?
I ask because some bikes won't snick into gear from neutral if the clutch lever is held in long enough for the shafts to stop spinning and land in just such a way. The solution is to slip the clutch slightly or better time the lever grab and subsequent shifter motion.
Once underway do you keep your toe under the shifter and perhaps do you ever not fully release the shifter lever before attempting the next upshift?
I ask because your description of hitting neutral or not getting 2nd gear both suggest insufficient lever travel which can be caused by physical insufficient toe movement but also by lack of shifter stroke due to failure to allow the mechanism to fully reset.
Just some things to consider.
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We bought a '17 scout last April; great motor, transmission works well, handles OK for a cruiser, harsh suspension (little travel) and awful wind management at highway speeds; still trying different windscreens and deflectors. For an old short guy, the low seat height and center of gravity are nice around town. The bike has become our local 2-up ride. The Norge will primarily be used for long distance duty.
Jon
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'nice write up, thanks. The Scout is Indian's entry platform and it has been doing well. I actually liked the Octane variant but as you say, Victory is no more. I had the opposite problem with the Scout I rode, it felt tinny (which is odd given the wheelbase). Polaris does do a better job of recognizing people come in all shapes and sizes so I believe there is a kit for both better fit of the large and small. I have not seen one on a Bobber but on the Springfield at least it helps a lot. Still, it's heritage by acquisition. One of the things I like about Guzzi's is they are the real deal.
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At the risk of appearing to mansplain shifting, but knowing you're a newer rider, might I ask a question/offer a suggestion or two?
Do you think you ever grab the clutch lever and hold it for a second or two before placing the bike in gear at a stop?
I ask because some bikes won't snick into gear from neutral if the clutch lever is held in long enough for the shafts to stop spinning and land in just such a way. The solution is to slip the clutch slightly or better time the lever grab and subsequent shifter motion.
Once underway do you keep your toe under the shifter and perhaps do you ever not fully release the shifter lever before attempting the next upshift?
I ask because your description of hitting neutral or not getting 2nd gear both suggest insufficient lever travel which can be caused by physical insufficient toe movement but also by lack of shifter stroke due to failure to allow the mechanism to fully reset.
Just some things to consider.
I'm always up for constructive input from experienced riders. In the above report, I was peeved that everyone involved at the event assumed I was a professional pillion. I get the same treatment at most dealerships, and retail stores. I understand that the overwhelming majority of riders are men, but it would be nice if it were assumed that everyone rides, until otherwise informed. That one little change would make a world of difference to the lady riders of the world.
Oddly, at the BMW event last month, no Hotpant Girls were in evidence, and everyone assumed I was riding solo. I was obviously not dressed to ride (flip-flops, capri pants), but on several occasions, I was approached about which bike I was going to try out. Maybe it had to do with the dealership?
OK, back to the topic. I tend to shift into 1st before I come to a stop, and unless the light has just turned red, I leave it there. I don't rest my toe under the lever whilst riding, except when running through the gears to accelerate "quickly". As far as getting the Scout into 2nd, I agree with your assessment of my foot movement. The floor model had no room and the demo was a bit too roomy when combined with the forward peg placement. I'm a newb on an unfamiliar bike, I guess it's to be expected. Solution? RIDE MORE BIKES! :thumb:
Question, what's happening when I try going from neutral to first and nothing happens? Initially, Anni couldn't find neutral, then wouldn't come out of neutral without several attempts, and that morphed into the "go into 2nd, then back down to 1st" method. I've messed with the lever free play, which helped a touch, and eventually replaced the stock levers for basic adjustables bringing more improvement. However, this issue is consistent enough to keep me from going into neutral without a strong need, or a tired hand.
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When we went to try the Chief and they asked us to try it pillion style, my wife got on and I took the pillion spot. They didn't blink so I knew we were in the right place.
The "hot pants girl" at the dealership is a VERY experienced rider and owns a 1930 Scout. Just sayin'.
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When we went to try the Chief and they asked us to try it pillion style, my wife got on and I took the pillion spot. They didn't blink so I knew we were in the right place.
The "hot pants girl" at the dealership is a VERY experienced rider and owns a 1930 Scout. Just sayin'.
I asked if they rode, none did. :sad: I'm always looking for input on gear from those with similar physical accoutrements.
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funny.
big stupid wide tires on middle sized "bobber" motorcycles....
and thin tall low profile tires on super sized "baggers".
besides looking silly to my eyes, it's a total compromise of performance and control all due to someone's idea of "styling".
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Question, what's happening when I try going from neutral to first and nothing happens? Initially, Anni couldn't find neutral, then wouldn't come out of neutral without several attempts, and that morphed into the "go into 2nd, then back down to 1st" method. I've messed with the lever free play, which helped a touch, and eventually replaced the stock levers for basic adjustables bringing more improvement. However, this issue is consistent enough to keep me from going into neutral without a strong need, or a tired hand.
When that happens I'm still guessing that you have squeezed and held the clutch lever for a second or two, enough time for the transmission input shaft to stop spinning and in a position where the clutch dogs for 1st can't quite engage.
Or conversely your foot was positioned still preloading the shifter lever just enough to keep the ratchet from resetting so the movement of the shift lever does nothing to rotate the shift drum.
In the first scenario simply releasing the clutch lever for a second or starting to just release/slip it enough to start engaging the friction zone would get the shaft spinning again, changing clutch dog alignment and allowing it to engage.
The first scenario is related to clutch free play adjustment as well. Too little play or too much play can cause shifting problems, especially when stopped, due to opposite reasons (not spinning or too much spinning).
The second scenario is about foot placement and toe-to-shifter discipline that allows full travel and ratchet resetting.
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At the risk of appearing to mansplain shifting, but knowing you're a newer rider, might I ask a question/offer a suggestion or two?
Do you think you ever grab the clutch lever and hold it for a second or two before placing the bike in gear at a stop?
I ask because some bikes won't snick into gear from neutral if the clutch lever is held in long enough for the shafts to stop spinning and land in just such a way. The solution is to slip the clutch slightly or better time the lever grab and subsequent shifter motion.
Once underway do you keep your toe under the shifter and perhaps do you ever not fully release the shifter lever before attempting the next upshift?
I ask because your description of hitting neutral or not getting 2nd gear both suggest insufficient lever travel which can be caused by physical insufficient toe movement but also by lack of shifter stroke due to failure to allow the mechanism to fully reset.
Just some things to consider.
If her bike came off the Official Indian Demo truck, I bet I rode the same bike. For me, the peg to shifter length was way too far and since I was wearing regular MC sport type boots (Sidi), I almost had to pull my foot off the peg to get the gear change. Mentioned it to the tech guy and he said they adjust them all so folks with big thick toed boots can fit. I think I hit neutral on a 1st to 2nd shift once. More than that the bobber riding position was terrible for my taste. Long reach to the handlebars and then forward foot controls. This put me in an extreme "C" position that had surrender flags going up in just a few miles. I thought the motor and gearbox worked very well together and would love to see it in a street tracker layout.
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I've had time on a Scout-not the Bobber though. Good thing the ride was all in a straight line. If the Bobber is anything like the first year Scout the pegs are down before the turn is even started. Nice bike on a straight smooth road though, but most bike are in that scenario.
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I'm always up for constructive input from experienced riders. In the above report, I was peeved that everyone involved at the event assumed I was a professional pillion. I get the same treatment at most dealerships, and retail stores. I understand that the overwhelming majority of riders are men, but it would be nice if it were assumed that everyone rides, until otherwise informed. That one little change would make a world of difference to the lady riders of the world.
My wife, who will only ride two up under extreme protest because she wants to be in control of the bike, has the same issue. When she was on her CB500X she once told a geared up woman inside the gas station what she was riding. The woman quickly pointed out she was on a real motorcycle, a Harley Ultra. As we left, my wife saw the woman on the pillion seat of the Harley and stepped over to tell her she should try riding one herself, it was a lot more fun.
You are correct that testing different bikes make you realize how you become accustomed to the controls adjustment of your bike and others may seem "unnatural". That's why shifter and brake linkages have adjustability. Unfortunately that Bobber doesn't have a rear set or even std factory option, at least they didn't when I test rode it.
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Guzzi Gal, I like your writing. You are always telling stories that are both funny and really interesting, very descriptive.
Regarding downshifting into 1st while the bike is still rolling and then holding the clutch: well, I don´t know whether it is the same with the V7 III (and the II with the newer gearbox), but this is a practice that can produce wear at the engine of the smallblocks. As I understand it (and there are discussions in this forum) when you pull the clutch the crankshaft is pressed against a sort of washer that limits the lateral movement of the crank. It is that washer that Luigi on some mondays forgets to put into place...
I always switch into neutral, release the clutch and only select 1st when I start again.
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If her bike came off the Official Indian Demo truck, I bet I rode the same bike. For me, the peg to shifter length was way too far and since I was wearing regular MC sport type boots (Sidi), I almost had to pull my foot off the peg to get the gear change. Mentioned it to the tech guy and he said they adjust them all so folks with big thick toed boots can fit. I think I hit neutral on a 1st to 2nd shift once. More than that the bobber riding position was terrible for my taste. Long reach to the handlebars and then forward foot controls. This put me in an extreme "C" position that had surrender flags going up in just a few miles.
I can see that. Silly way to set it up though on Indian's part.
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I've had time on a Scout-not the Bobber though. Good thing the ride was all in a straight line. If the Bobber is anything like the first year Scout the pegs are down before the turn is even started. Nice bike on a straight smooth road though, but most bike are in that scenario.
Not for nothing but Jay and I had the Scout on some curves during demos when it was first released and I don't recall any peg down problems. Lean angles on the Scout aren't sport bike sized, but they are better than say lowered Harley models.
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I'm a bit surprised. Every turn I had those front pegs scraping. Maybe the bike I tried was lowered?
The motor was really nice but like so many bikes of that style almost zero rear travel-and that's a big no no for me. Nothing aganist the bike-I'm kind of fond of the new Indians-not nearly enough to buy one, bit so what? Nice enough machines.
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I'm a bit surprised. Every turn I had those front pegs scraping. Maybe the bike I tried was lowered?
The motor was really nice but like so many bikes of that style almost zero rear travel-and that's a big no no for me. Nothing aganist the bike-I'm kind of fond of the new Indians-not nearly enough to buy one, bit so what? Nice enough machines.
Yeah who knows, lowered, preload set way low, differences in expectations?!?
I'm a big guy and if I lean or kiss the mirrors as our friend teaches I suspect I have a lot of influence over how relatively vertical a bike can stay.
Still by the specs it supposedly can lean as far as the Harley rubbermounted Roadsters that a number of us here have ridden and find fine.
*Shrugs* <----- I'm doing this a lot today.
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I'm a bit surprised. Every turn I had those front pegs scraping. Maybe the bike I tried was lowered?
The motor was really nice but like so many bikes of that style almost zero rear travel-and that's a big no no for me. Nothing aganist the bike-I'm kind of fond of the new Indians-not nearly enough to buy one, bit so what? Nice enough machines.
Standard Scouts with the pegs in the middle position do ground out too easily. I put the "reduced reach" controls on mine, and that helps a lot. Also, with such a low seating position, a little upper-body lean makes a huge difference.
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the street tracker would make it all go better.
(https://img.newatlas.com/indian-ftr1200-flat-track-22.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&fit=max&h=670&q=60&w=1000&s=4a17935a8d1747363182a16367e9903c)
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Ah. Maybe that's it. The bike I rode had forward controls. I figured that was stock-was I mistaken on that?
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Ah. Maybe that's it. The bike I rode had forward controls. I figured that was stock-was I mistaken on that?
Jay and I rode ones with the same stock "forwards" though I'm on the record for saying they're not THAT extreme (though they are forward, I'm not sure they are that much more forward than the controls on my old Jackal).
But see comments about body size and expectations.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171217/abd9c4b5c34c9e3f3736a36a67f93a8e.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171217/c15efdf240dcde92aba31180bc2e94a2.jpg)
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Looking at the Scout, I like most everything except that massive radiator on the front kills it for me.
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Looking at the Scout, I like most everything except that massive radiator on the front kills it for me.
To be truthful I hated it too, until I saw it in person. The angle you look at the bike is a lot different from most photos and it doesn't stand out as badly in person.
The said, it's no where near as unobtrusive as it is in the new Bonnies!!!
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Not for nothing but Jay and I had the Scout on some curves during demos when it was first released and I don't recall any peg down problems. Lean angles on the Scout aren't sport bike sized, but they are better than say lowered Harley models.
Correct, but, I don't recall that we went around any curves at high enough speeds for it to be an issue, as it was a bit of a parade loop, unlike the demo at the Harley factory that was self-paced. I did scrape floor boards and pegs that day.
I really like the Scout motor. Too bad Polaris never built a sporting standard with it under the Victory name. That's what the Octane should've been.
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Correct, but, I don't recall that we went around any curves at high enough speeds for it to be an issue, as it was a bit of a parade loop, unlike the demo at the Harley factory that was self-paced. I did scrape floor boards and pegs that day.
I really like the Scout motor. Too bad Polaris never built a sporting standard with it under the Victory name. That's what the Octane should've been.
There were enough backroads and corners that I would have scraped if it was that easy. Shit I've scraped Harley demos making a turn at a light.
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Here is our scout; had just installed a new screen with foil. I don't find the radiator too intrusive; think it's a good looking bike for a small cruiser.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eQu2vR/2017scout.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eQu2vR)
Jon
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REALLY interested in the FTR1200... everything else isn't my thing. Let's hope they don't modify the demo bike for the street too much. It looks great as-is.
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That street tracker looks nicer than the v85 that I ordered. :boozing: :boozing: :boozing:
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The Scout's main attribute is a smaller engine that puts out some good horses. Forward peg controls, a little annoying. On the suspension, the angle of the rear shocks is kind of annoying. It does toss easily into tight turns. :thumb: From what I hear the dealers are real accommodating on fixing issues with the bikes. :thumb:
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Guzzi Gal.....was the demo's down in Chandler?
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Guzzi Gal.....was the demo's down in Chandler?
Yep, at Ride Now.
@ Kev M- The Scout seems to fit you well. The pegs were a bit of a stretch, and I wasn’t enamored with the reach to the grips, but I still enjoyed the ride.
My wife, who will only ride two up under extreme protest because she wants to be in control of the bike, has the same issue. When she was on her CB500X she once told a geared up woman inside the gas station what she was riding. The woman quickly pointed out she was on a real motorcycle, a Harley Ultra. As we left, my wife saw the woman on the pillion seat of the Harley and stepped over to tell her she should try riding one herself, it was a lot more fun.
Seriously!?! What a snot! :thewife: :grin:
Guzzi Gal, I like your writing. You are always telling stories that are both funny and really interesting, very descriptive.
Regarding downshifting into 1st while the bike is still rolling and then holding the clutch...
I always switch into neutral, release the clutch and only select 1st when I start again.
Thank you! I used to be quite the reader, but have never been much for writing.
Does it matter if I actually use 1st before coming to a stop? I was taught to leave the bike in gear in the event a quick exit was needed.
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Here is our scout; had just installed a new screen with foil. I don't find the radiator too intrusive; think it's a good looking bike for a small cruiser.
(http://thumb.ibb.co/eQu2vR/2017scout.jpg) (http://ibb.co/eQu2vR)
Jon
You got an X-Creen spoiler blade on there. :thumb:
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Does it matter if I actually use 1st before coming to a stop? I was taught to leave the bike in gear in the event a quick exit was needed.
It has a 6 speed box, I'm sure you can take off in 2nd just about as quick.
This is a timely topic, my older Bro just bought the same bike in New Zealand
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It has a 6 speed box, I'm sure you can take off in 2nd just about as quick.
This is a timely topic, my older Bro just bought the same bike in New Zealand
:1: Congrats to your bro on his new ride!
I've done the 2nd gear start a few times by accident, and she survived.
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Speaking of Scouts..this story found me somehow.
https://rideapart.com/articles/case-mid-sized-cruiser
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Speaking of Scouts..this story found me somehow.
https://rideapart.com/articles/case-mid-sized-cruiser
:1: Good read. Thanks!
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Jay and I rode ones with the same stock "forwards" though I'm on the record for saying they're not THAT extreme (though they are forward, I'm not sure they are that much more forward than the controls on my old Jackal).
But see comments about body size and expectations.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171217/abd9c4b5c34c9e3f3736a36a67f93a8e.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171217/c15efdf240dcde92aba31180bc2e94a2.jpg)
That is one ugly as machine........... IMHO :laugh:
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I’ve had a couple of test rides on a Scout 90,one before, and on after I bought my V7. I enjoyed riding it in town, but on the open road, at above 50 mph it was too blowy for me.
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That is one ugly as machine........... IMHO [emoji23]
Ah but maybe it takes that to make ME look good....
.... What's my Italian friend say "tastes must not be discussed".
*Shrugs*
I thought the Scout was a good looking bike. Not cookie cutter. Certainly better looking than the Tonti Cali, but I'm sure those are fighting words to many here.
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Shucks, I read the thread title and thought I might be reading a report about riding a 1918 Indian... which shows where my head is. I rode a 1912 Pope once, sure glad I did, but it was a little scary. I was wondering if things changed much in the next six years :grin:
A neighbor recently bought a new Indian Scout and asked me to ride it and report back. I did but what to say... I said the engine was quite pleasant, not lying because it's tractable and seems well engineered The bike overall isn't a patch on my $950 used SV650 in either engineering or quality, never mind an older Italian bike. To me everything other than the engine on the Indian looked cheap, the tires appeared to be made cheap to OEM spec in China and the whole bike is a little depressing in that regard. Like something you'd see for sale in Home Depot, made to last two summers and be thrown away. Just my impression.
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The bike overall isn't a patch on my $950 used SV650 in either engineering or quality, never mind an older Italian bike. To me everything other than the engine on the Indian looked cheap, the tires appeared to be made cheap to OEM spec in China and the whole bike is a little depressing in that regard. Like something you'd see for sale in Home Depot, made to last two summers and be thrown away. Just my impression.
Well just goes to show what nonsense an impression can be....
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If you're looking for an econo bike built by an American mass market corporation, I'm sure it's reliable but don't be persuaded it's more than that just because it carries a genuinely historic name. The Scout has more in common with Japanese econo bikes of the 60s than the Indians of the 30s. Anybody with an engineering or manufacturing background can see it's built to the lowest possible price, and I think it's an inappropriate use of the Indian name.
BTW, I helped my neighbor install some accessories on his, they were also cheaply made and fit ridiculously poorly. As a result what should have taken 30 minutes took an afternoon.
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If you're looking for an econo bike built by an American mass market corporation, I'm sure it's reliable but don't be persuaded it's more than that just because it carries a genuinely historic name. The Scout has more in common with Japanese econo bikes of the 60s than the Indians of the 30s. Anybody with an engineering or manufacturing background can see it's built to the lowest possible price, and I think it's an inappropriate use of the Indian name.
:rolleyes:
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Well just goes to show what nonsense an impression can be....
I'd like to know any advantage whatsoever that the Scout has over an SV650? Performance, handling, styling? Not so much.
The SV is a competent do-anything motorcycle whereas the Scout is a style job for the Sportster crowd. Nothing wrong with that but the SV is a fantastic bike. Now if Indian comes out with a standard, street tracker or cafe version, my assessment could change.
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I'd like to know any advantage whatsoever that the Scout has over an SV650? Performance, handling, styling? Not so much.
The SV is a competent do-anything motorcycle whereas the Scout is a style job for the Sportster crowd. Nothing wrong with that but the SV is a fantastic bike. Now if Indian comes out with a standard, street tracker or cafe version, my assessment could change.
Challenge gladly accepted:
1. Seat Height - like it or not there are plenty of people who want a low seat height either because of stature or preference. And though the controls are a bit forward for some of the former they sell a kit to move them back a bit.
2. Ergos - The SV650 and bikes like it (like our Duc) have ergos that are uncomfortable to me and after more than two decades of trying to like riding positions like that (Honda Ascot VT500, BMW R11RS, Guzzi B11, Buel ST3, and our current 696) I've given up. I am much more comfortable with ergos like the Scout.
3. Ease of Maintenance - SV650 has a chain and 15k valve adjustments, Scout has a belt and 20k valve checks, but few expected adjustments. The Scout valve train is similar to a Ford 2.0L with 100k inspection intervals for valves.
I wouldn't mind it if they gave the Scout a little more suspension and brakes, but I'm sure it would be fine for me as it is and I'm equally sure I'm not alone. There are a number of people (some on this forum) who would pick a Scout over an SV.
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Seems that the Bobber and FTR 1200 Custom are spreading the line out for Indian on the Sportster end. I like the Custom more than the Scout but the drive train in the Scout works well. The Bobber goes with the current trend.
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I now own a scout (see pic earlier in this thread) and I have owned an SVS. I actually think the fit and finish is better on the scout. True, the SV was quicker in the twisties, but it's suspension was pretty mushy. The scout is much more comfortable for me now than the SV would be.
Jon
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The Scout, I rode more than a couple of times is the same as the one Kev M is on in the pix. Not a fan of the fwd controls but the bike is fun to ride. Definite competition for the HD Sporty's also the 1100 Cali/Ev.
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The Scout can't be ridden at any kind of pace on a twisty road. The engine has a nice enough character but the chassis and braking are obviously made for gentle, slow riding. Is there any other manufacturer that uses Kenda tires on a new bike?
http://www.indianmotorcycles.net/threads/should-i-replace-the-stock-tires-before-my-first-ride.13665/
Guzzi's small block line is also built to a price, and with the V7 it also somewhat tastelessly utilizes the name of an older, top of the line bike for 2017's bottom of the line. However, I think the Guzzi is built a bit a bit better and doesn't quite so loudly scream 'K-Mart' when you look at its detail design.
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The Scout can't be ridden at any kind of pace on a twisty road. The engine has a nice enough character but the chassis and braking are obviously made for gentle, slow riding. Is there any other manufacturer that uses Kenda tires on a new bike?
http://www.indianmotorcycles.net/threads/should-i-replace-the-stock-tires-before-my-first-ride.13665/
Guzzi's small block line is also built to a price, and with the V7 it also somewhat tastelessly utilizes the name of an older, top of the line bike for 2017's bottom of the line. However, I think the Guzzi is built a bit a bit better and doesn't quite so loudly scream 'K-Mart' when you look at its detail design.
Oh brother. I guess we're gonna have to keep trying.
I'm going to make some assumptions here, and if I'm wrong I'm sure you'll let me know.
But these are the types of statements I hear just way too often from people who have little to no experience riding this type of bike.
They just come across as snooty, because their _____________(insert sporting bike of choice) is "so much better" - it's engineered better (I swear to gawd most don't have the slightest clue what that word means, it just means "makes more powa beoch" or fulfills some other race track need better) or costs less or bla bla bla.
I'll assure you the Scout, like many other bikes of the genre can be ridden at pace on a twisty road. Shyte a decade ago I remember a buddy of mine and I leaving a pair of HonduYamaKawaZukis for dead on a twisty road while we were riding a pair of stock LOWERED 883s that had less lean angle by spec than the Scout.
Hell the Sporty in my garage today probably only has about the same lean angles as the Scout and I've surprised or embarrassed more than a few riders on it. A number of riders from this board have ridden it and expressed surprise in how well it handled.
Point is that most people make ridiculous assumptions, usually from lack of experience...either that or they ride on the street at so far beyond any reasonable limit (meaning with a total disregard for the safety of others) that it's pointless to discuss with them further.
But even some of the worst handling Harleys I've ever ridden could be hustled through MOST corners at well above the speed limit with a little body English and a good line. So much so that the average rider really isn't going to take those curves any faster on their sportbike. Hell, how many people do you see blasting the straights only to stand it up and walk through the curves even on their Duc, Trumpet, etc. I've seen plenty.
Tires, meh, I dunno, are they rock hard and last 20k miles or soft and only last 6k? Both are unacceptable to me. I'm looking for a middle ground, I want more stick than 20k and more miles than 6k...so I'll take something in the middle.
And V7 - tastelessly? - Dude, you and I got almost nothing left to talk about cause I'm not sure you're gonna hear my words from up there, and if that's a serious attitude I'm not sure you're worth shouting to (though hopefully I'm wrong).
I love my V7, and my Harleys, and even have a soft spot for Jenn's Duc. I've ridden hundreds of bikes... I can't think of any right now that I'd rather have from my bud's heavily breathed on K1300GT or 748, or well, just about any press bike I had for any length of time... nah... I'm good with my "slow and gentle" riding... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Point is most people make ridiculous assumptions...eithe r that or they ride on the street at so far beyond any reasonable limit (meaning with a total disregard for the safety of others) that it's pointless to discuss with them further.
Actually, I've never been injured on a motorcycle and after roughly 40 years and hundreds of thousands of miles riding motorcycles on roads atypical of the east coast of the US, in a way that is impossible on something like the Scout, I make my own judgments about motorcycles and people.
Thanks for laying our your opinion :wink:
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I have trouble keeping up with my buddy on his Indian in the twisties in fact we all do.
It's a 46 Indian Chief with hand shift and foot clutch LOL
https://ibb.co/njiVZm
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Actually, I've never been injured on a motorcycle and after roughly 40 years and hundreds of thousands of miles riding motorcycles on roads atypical of the east coast of the US, in a way that is impossible on something like the Scout, I make my own judgments about motorcycles and people.
Thanks for laying our your opinion :wink:
Well not been injured doesn't assure us there's no "blatant disregard" now does it?
Then again maybe it equally suggests you ride more "slow and gentle" than you think?
[emoji848] [emoji6] [emoji56]
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The Scout can't be ridden at any kind of pace on a twisty road. The engine has a nice enough character but the chassis and braking are obviously made for gentle, slow riding. Is there any other manufacturer that uses Kenda tires on a new bike?
http://www.indianmotorcycles.net/threads/should-i-replace-the-stock-tires-before-my-first-ride.13665/
Guzzi's small block line is also built to a price, and with the V7 it also somewhat tastelessly utilizes the name of an older, top of the line bike for 2017's bottom of the line. However, I think the Guzzi is built a bit a bit better and doesn't quite so loudly scream 'K-Mart' when you look at its detail design.
When you say twisties....do you mean esses or hairpins? I can assure you that the Scout is fine in Hairpins and Alpine style roads. The road going to the peak of South Mountain in Phoenix is an Alpine style road. Not my favorite bike to ride on this type of road but it does nicely.
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If you're looking for an econo bike built by an American mass market corporation, I'm sure it's reliable but don't be persuaded it's more than that just because it carries a genuinely historic name. The Scout has more in common with Japanese econo bikes of the 60s than the Indians of the 30s. Anybody with an engineering or manufacturing background can see it's built to the lowest possible price, and I think it's an inappropriate use of the Indian name.
BTW, I helped my neighbor install some accessories on his, they were also cheaply made and fit ridiculously poorly. As a result what should have taken 30 minutes took an afternoon.
Some serious hoss pucky right there...'specially since by '53 they were making crap.
Anyway, got a close look at the FTR750 today. Very businesslike.
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I must admit, I am surprised by comments saying an Indian fit and finish is poorer than a Suzi. I am a long term lover of Suzi's (had Bandits, TS's, GSXRs) but not one of them (the GSXR was the best by far) was great finish wise. Rust appeared soon on fitting. But they are great cheap, bullet proof bikes which handle well.
When I was struggling with wrist ache on my GSXR, I looked into more comfy bikes. The first one was my '92 Cali LAPD - love this bike but she needs lots of tender care, as she is an old girl. She handles okay, not Suzi level.
Needed something more reliable and was liking the more comfortable cruiser feel, so started looking. Started at the Indian Scout, decided it was too small looking for me. Was going to get a Victory Octane but that was released too late in the year. Test rode a Victory Jackpot, bought it.
Indian is a 'quality' brand in the UK (admittedly the Scout is aimed at a cheaper end of the market than the rest of the range) and the finish on all Indians I have looked at is excellent. Likewise my Victory is stunning finish wise and the Victorys were lower price point than the main Indian range.
My Jackpot is perfectly capable of taking curves (even the famous hill out of Shaftesbury in Dorset, no not Gold Hill) - you just have to get the feel for it. This is mainly due to the massive rear wheel and tiny front but it really is not a problem and I did the National Road Rally (Daytime Gold! :-) ) on her this year. No problem keeping up with anybody not on a race replica (and even some of them).
As the Scout is actually an Octane (yes, the Scout was released first but the Octane was supposed to be and was the development platform), the handling is great.
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I must admit, I am surprised by comments saying an Indian fit and finish is poorer than a Suzi. I am a long term lover of Suzi's (had Bandits, TS's, GSXRs) but not one of them (the GSXR was the best by far) was great finish wise. Rust appeared soon on fitting. But they are great cheap, bullet proof bikes which handle well.
When I was struggling with wrist ache on my GSXR, I looked into more comfy bikes. The first one was my '92 Cali LAPD - love this bike but she needs lots of tender care, as she is an old girl. She handles okay, not Suzi level.
Needed something more reliable and was liking the more comfortable cruiser feel, so started looking. Started at the Indian Scout, decided it was too small looking for me. Was going to get a Victory Octane but that was released too late in the year. Test rode a Victory Jackpot, bought it.
Indian is a 'quality' brand in the UK (admittedly the Scout is aimed at a cheaper end of the market than the rest of the range) and the finish on all Indians I have looked at is excellent. Likewise my Victory is stunning finish wise and the Victorys were lower price point than the main Indian range.
My Jackpot is perfectly capable of taking curves (even the famous hill out of Shaftesbury in Dorset, no not Gold Hill) - you just have to get the feel for it. This is mainly due to the massive rear wheel and tiny front but it really is not a problem and I did the National Road Rally (Daytime Gold! :-) ) on her this year. No problem keeping up with anybody not on a race replica (and even some of them).
As the Scout is actually an Octane (yes, the Scout was released first but the Octane was supposed to be and was the development platform), the handling is great.
:thumb:
The last few years I spent a lot of time grabbing demos on Indians and Vics as I was seriously considering one instead of adding another Harley to the fleet. There was a lot to like about both brands.
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@DorsetBlue, 'fit and finish' and detail design are two different things. Features like a stiff aluminum frame, decent triple disk brakes, quality name brand tires, rising rate single shock rear suspension, and some level of artistry in the foot peg hangers etc are detail design features, not related to fit and finish.
That said, if you buy the little fairing to install on your Indian Scout (the factory accessory) you may find like I did that the mounting holes are misaligned by roughly 3/8 inch... which is a fit issue.
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I always switch into neutral, release the clutch and only select 1st when I start again.
MSF Courses spend a fair amount of time telling riders to remain in gear at intersections and leave an escape route in case something following you isn't going to stop. Kicking it into neutral removes one escape option from your safety repertoire.
I did use this out one time as the screech of tires on pavement alerted me to the fact my present space was soon to book a double occupancy. 90K miles on the T3 and haven't lost the crank thrust washer yet.
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I've ridden the Scouts a few times, and like the basic package, but wish it had a little more "standard" seating and more ground clearance. A larger fuel tank and more suspension travel would be nice.
The accesssory "1920" "solo saddle" and "beach bars" make it a lot more comfortable for me.
I've read reports complaining about vibration. The first two I rode, I didn't notice. The last one I rode did have noticeable vibration at the higher reaches of the tacho.
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Vibration (and surging) are a great mystery...some people just vibrate at a different?! frequency.
:-)
My Sport 1100 vibrates at my frequency. Very few others have.
mid-90s Ducati 900 SS/SP did, too. As did my 1991 LeMans V.
I know vibration can vary bike to bike in a range. Like the Scout, I've ridden multiple examples of other models, and they all "feel" a little different from each other.
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Didn't notice the vibes running in 2nd/3rd gear near max rpm's but I was more concerned with the hairpins going up to the summit of South Mountain. Will check that out on a straight and flat road. :shocked:
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Didn't notice the vibes running in 2nd/3rd gear near max rpm's but I was more concerned with the hairpins going up to the summit of South Mountain. Will check that out on a straight and flat road. :shocked:
I've read about it in reviews, but only experienced it on 1 of 3 Scouts I've ridden.
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Interesting, kev. My Triumph dealer friend was also a Vic dealer and as such, I rode every Vic plenty of times leading demo rides. I thought the Vic motors were uninspiring and bland in character. Our 2003 RoadKing is much more interesting to chug along on IMHO. The only Vic I really liked the motor on was the Vision-go figure.
As an aside, we delivered a Vision to a 79 year old guy. He bought it to ride from Buffalo to Alaska to see his old Army buddy-alone. Had a great time and loved the bike. No issues with it at all.
Yes, Buffalo. Our football and hockey teams stink. We know. No need to rub it in for the holidays!
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Uh.....they stink. :grin: :grin: :grin: Merry Christmas!
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Interesting, kev. My Triumph dealer friend was also a Vic dealer and as such, I rode every Vic plenty of times leading demo rides. I thought the Vic motors were uninspiring and bland in character. Our 2003 RoadKing is much more interesting to chug along on IMHO. The only Vic I really liked the motor on was the Vision-go figure.
I guess I like the character of v-twins in general though I can't say anything particular that stood out about the Vic or Indian BT's aside from an overall impression of solidness/reliability and no lack of power.
I was a little disappointed in the limited cornering clearance of the Judge, but like their Harley rivals the touring mounts had plenty enough.
The Scout this is a departure from my usual tastes in terms of motor and some of the styling. But it took me pleasantly by surprise.
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I get it. I like them, too. The Vic just felt...soft. I ended up with a 2010 Triumph Thunderbird 1600 that we took on trade.
Really nice motor but the rest of the bike was, as you say, meh. I rode it part of one season and sold it to buy my V7. THAT was a good move!
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MSF Courses spend a fair amount of time telling riders to remain in gear at intersections and leave an escape route in case something following you isn't going to stop. Kicking it into neutral removes one escape option from your safety repertoire.
I did use this out one time as the screech of tires on pavement alerted me to the fact my present space was soon to book a double occupancy. 90K miles on the T3 and haven't lost the crank thrust washer yet.
:thumb:
I once challenged myself to keep feet up whilst in a half a mile long 4 way stop queue. I had to touch down once, before reaching the 4 way, because there was some issue at the intersection which took a while for the participants to muddle through. The whole time, I was wondering what it was doing to the clutch, my gas mileage, and if the people behind me where peeved or entertained.
With limited available saddle time, I'd guess that Anni's parts may rot before wearing out. :wink:
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My Sport 1100 vibrates at my frequency. Very few others have.
mid-90s Ducati 900 SS/SP did, too. As did my 1991 LeMans V.
I know vibration can vary bike to bike in a range. Like the Scout, I've ridden multiple examples of other models, and they all "feel" a little different from each other.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/35869192/whats-the-frequency-kenneth.jpg)
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:thumb:
I once challenged myself to keep feet up whilst in a half a mile long 4 way stop queue. I had to touch down once, before reaching the 4 way, because there was some issue at the intersection which took a while for the participants to muddle through. The whole time, I was wondering what it was doing to the clutch, my gas mileage, and if the people behind me where peeved or entertained.
With limited available saddle time, I'd guess that Anni's parts may rot before wearing out. :wink:
Congrats on balancing the bike!! It's not all that easy to do. You might just need to go to a rally and enter the slow race. No feet down and the last person to the line wins.
Tom
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MSF Courses spend a fair amount of time telling riders to remain in gear at intersections and leave an escape route in case something following you isn't going to stop. Kicking it into neutral removes one escape option from your safety repertoire.
I did use this out one time as the screech of tires on pavement alerted me to the fact my present space was soon to book a double occupancy. 90K miles on the T3 and haven't lost the crank thrust washer yet.
Maybe, in Germany we don´t do it this way. And I was addressing a potential reason for wear in the drivetrain of especially the smallblock Guzzi.
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Nice write up, GG. Thanks for posting. Visually, I’m not particularly fond of the Bobber but I like the Indians in general and I actually think that basic Scout is a gorgeous bike when kitted up with saddlebags and such. Even still, to my eyes there’s just something a tad more special and classic looking about Harleys, especially the new ones as I think HD are knocking it out of the park right now with the new bikes. I dunno whether the Harley riders who buy new bikes like the new ones (killing off the Dyna line and such) but I sure do. I won’t be buying one soon or probably ever unless they start paying librarians more or a guy named Walt asks me to go into business with him. This one would look oh so sharp in my garage, or any garage IMHO.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4644/38577294294_69af206b6d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21LWHzG)14723252-2C85-4F21-8838-22FA40C87769 (https://flic.kr/p/21LWHzG) by Brian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/flickr_bri/), on Flickr
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Nice write up, GG. Thanks for posting. Visually, I’m not particularly fond of the Bobber but I like the Indians in general and I actually think that basic Scout is a gorgeous bike when kitted up with saddlebags and such. Even still, to my eyes there’s just something a tad more special and classic looking about Harleys, especially the new ones as I think HD are knocking it out of the park right now with the new bikes. I dunno whether the Harley riders who buy new bikes like the new ones (killing off the Dyna line and such) but I sure do. I won’t be buying one soon or probably ever unless they start paying librarians more or a guy named Walt asks me to go into business with him. This one would look oh so sharp in my garage, or any garage IMHO.
(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4644/38577294294_69af206b6d_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/21LWHzG)14723252-2C85-4F21-8838-22FA40C87769 (https://flic.kr/p/21LWHzG) by Brian (https://www.flickr.com/photos/flickr_bri/), on Flickr
I spent the last 20+ years throwing shade at and hating on Softails, but I've now ridden a half dozen of the new Softails, including that new Fat Bob, and they are excellent.
They have more cornering clearance, feel much smaller/lighter, have a smooth and strong motor, comfortable suspensions, and stronger ABS brakes than I expected on the single disc models.
If I hadn't just bought the RK I would be seriously tempted.
For the first time in my life I could see owning a Softail someday.
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I spent the last 20+ years throwing shade at and hating on Softails, but I've now ridden a half dozen of the new Softails, including that new Fat Bob, and they are excellent.
They have more cornering clearance, feel much smaller/lighter, have a smooth and strong motor, comfortable suspensions, and stronger ABS brakes than I expected on the single disc models.
If I hadn't just bought the RK I would be seriously tempted.
For the first time in my life I could see owning a Softail someday.
:1: It�s interesting. Like a fanboy who knows there are no real super heroes but keeps reading the comic books anyhow, I still consume a great deal of motorcycle reviews/write-ups. With all these new Harleys the things you mention above keep getting lauded and mentioned but also it seems to me that another word keeps popping up that I don�t recall seeing in a lot of reviews for older HDs, and that is �fun�. Not that the older ones are not/can�t be fun, I just don�t remember reading/seeing that aspect of the bikes in many reviews, but now it seems like I see it often.
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:1: It�s interesting. Like a fanboy who knows there are no real super heroes but keeps reading the comic books anyhow, I still consume a great deal of motorcycle reviews/write-ups. With all these new Harleys the things you mention above keep getting lauded and mentioned but also it seems to me that another word keeps popping up that I don�t recall seeing in a lot of reviews for older HDs, and that is �fun�. Not that the older ones are not/can�t be fun, I just don�t remember reading/seeing that aspect of the bikes in many reviews, but now it seems like I see it often.
I tend to avoid reviews as I want to try and make up my own mind without bias.
I completely understand the term when used on these new Softails in comparison to the older Dynas (that I liked well enough) and Softails (that I didn't).
Something about the overall package has brought out a more playful characteristic than the bikes it replaced.
They're still Harleys, they don't rev particularly high, they're still much heavier than a V7 (though you might not know it just picking them up off the side stand), and they still require more steering effort.
But they've improved in so those areas and wound up with a very nice, balanced, package.