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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: willowstreetguzziguy on December 23, 2017, 05:08:50 PM

Title: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: willowstreetguzziguy on December 23, 2017, 05:08:50 PM
Alfa Romeo Giulia was named Motor Trend car of the year! Amazing for an Italian company that came back from the dead.

“There is sorcery in this car,” road test editor Chris Walton says. “The Giulia fills the space vacated by BMW. Yet even at the apex of its reign, a 3 Series never rode this well or cornered with such poise and precision simultaneously.”

Amazing!!!      Can you imagine if they bought Moto Guzzi!!!!!!
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Aaron D. on December 23, 2017, 05:14:27 PM
I really like the look of the car-but my goodness, the problems they seem to have on test..
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Markcarovilli on December 23, 2017, 05:26:52 PM
Nice car but a little small or I am too big....

Mark
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Moto on December 23, 2017, 05:55:52 PM
I sort of recall that a Guzzi won the cruiser of the year award from Cycle World around the late 1990's. This didn't solve the company's problems in the U.S. I hope Alfa/Fiat can do better.

Moto

P.S. I recently read a review somewhere of the Alfa Stelvio SUV that made me absolutely want to run out and buy one. Maybe the new Alfas really are great!
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on December 23, 2017, 06:13:27 PM
The Chevrolet Vega won Car of the Year in '71, so I don't find that award all that impressive.  :wink:
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Roebling3 on December 23, 2017, 06:50:15 PM
Good shot Charlie. And then they died. And few know where they can see one, no. I know a place in ME where a Vega was pushed off a manmade cliff. Rolling sideways over boulders and stopping rubber up left nothing to attract salvager.  R3~
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: PJPR01 on December 23, 2017, 07:15:43 PM

(http://thumb.ibb.co/exoWUm/7179_BF24_244_F_4293_9079_7_B569_D1_E482_A.jpg) (http://ibb.co/exoWUm)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/kRmUFR/B796_B786_E012_41_C7_8411_350496127_B91.jpg) (http://ibb.co/kRmUFR)


Agreed!  Beautiful design...would like to take one for a ride.  Saw the Giulia and Stelvio side by side here
In Scottsdale.  Very stylish!
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: PeteS on December 23, 2017, 07:34:28 PM
The Chevrolet Vega won Car of the Year in '71, so I don't find that award all that impressive.  :wink:

In 1978 it was the Plymouth Horizon. We had one. It would literally fall apart as you drove down the road. Turn signal lenses fell off, mirrors and sun visors would fall in your lap. Alternator bracket would snap in two........

Pete
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Arizona Wayne on December 23, 2017, 07:43:25 PM
The worst cars I've ever driven is a new `70 Ford Pinto and a Chevy Vega loaned to us when our `75 Toyota Corona wagon was being repaired after my wife got rear ended.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowheeladdict on December 23, 2017, 09:06:17 PM
The Chevrolet Vega won Car of the Year in '71, so I don't find that award all that impressive.  :wink:

Cosworth Vega was a fun car.  The fisher body didn't like the salt that is for sure.  My Dad got 100,000 miles out of his '72 base model commuter before the rust kept it from passing inspection.

I married into an '80 Monza 4 speed.  We kept that car 14 years and only sold it because we found ourselves with 3 vehicles while temporarily assigned to Red River and could only move two to our next location. 

When they put that little 8 in the Skyhawk, now that was a fun car!
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Chesterfield on December 23, 2017, 09:11:49 PM
All I can say is that a payment of let`s say 1 Million Shekels, would surely be paid of quickly in revenue from increased sales due to being car of the year.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on December 23, 2017, 09:20:23 PM
Cosworth Vega was a fun car.  The fisher body didn't like the salt that is for sure.  My Dad got 100,000 miles out of his '72 base model commuter before the rust kept it from passing inspection.

I married into an '80 Monza 4 speed.  We kept that car 14 years and only sold it because we found ourselves with 3 vehicles while temporarily assigned to Red River and could only move two to our next location. 

When they put that little 8 in the Skyhawk, now that was a fun car!

On the flip side, my '73 was already a rust bucket in '79, despite the original owner being meticulous in it's care. Head gasket blew at 50k, engine was done shortly afterwards.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: wymple on December 23, 2017, 09:53:07 PM
GM could have easily fixed the early Vega problems with decent rustproofing and a sleeved block. The engine warping was solely the result of having a less than 50-50 mix in the antifreeze. A little customer education could have prevented that. GM, like so many others, would rather play the denial card, like Ford with the Pinto gas tanks. For all the trouble, my 72 was one of the most fun cars I've ever had. It was a real handler with a decent set of radials.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Johncolleary on December 23, 2017, 10:09:12 PM
My wife and I test drove the Stelvio and we were both very impressed.
I would buy one.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Lcarlson on December 23, 2017, 10:31:03 PM
In 1969 I bought my first brand new car, an Alfa Romeo Berlina 1750 sedan. It wasn’t very good looking, but man, did it drive! Hindsight is undoubtedly deceptive, but to this day it seems like it was the best handling car I ever owned. I’m sure that if I could drive it today as it came out of the showroom, I’d be hugely disappointed. Fortunately, I can’t.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Idontwantapickle on December 23, 2017, 10:48:46 PM
Not a big surprise given that they ranked it better overall in a head to head with 7 other cars:

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/alfa-romeo/giulia/2017/alfa-romeo-giulia-bmw-330i-audi-a4-mercedes-benz-c300-cadillac-ats-jaguar-xe-lexus-is-200t-volvo-s60-comparison/

Alfa makes a fine car even if a press award is meaningless. The above article lays out how the field compares pretty well. I do take it with a grain of salt and I'm gonna buy what I like anyway!

Hunter
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Gliderjohn on December 24, 2017, 07:11:34 AM
Quote
In 1978 it was the Plymouth Horizon.
Believe it or not the Wichita PD used them for radar/traffic control cars. The one and only time I ever out ran a cop, was successful and that was on a GS400 :evil:
GliderJohn
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: PeteS on December 24, 2017, 07:29:56 AM
Believe it or not the Wichita PD used them for radar/traffic control cars. The one and only time I ever out ran a cop, was successful and that was on a GS400 :evil:
GliderJohn

The '78 and '79 came with a Volkswagen motor (Rabbit??). It ran pretty well but I doubt would top 100. They had to modify a few parts like the alternator mount (thin stamped steel) to get it to fit in the Horizon.
Its biggest attribute was it a great car in the snow. I think it had a 54-46 front-rear weight bias and was as capable as many 4WDs.

Pete
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: John Ulrich on December 24, 2017, 07:38:08 AM
All I can say is that a payment of let`s say 1 Million Shekels, would surely be paid of quickly in revenue from increased sales due to being car of the year.

Many here may be too young to remember when Motor Trend "sold" the Car of the Year title.   :embarassed:
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: blackcat on December 24, 2017, 07:48:43 AM
Many here may be too young to remember when Motor Trend "sold" the Car of the Year title.   :embarassed:

Renault Alliance/Encore was car of the year sometime in the 80's.  I purchased an Encore, mostly because I needed a car and the Mazda that I really wanted had a long waiting list.  The first week I owned the car, the starter went and it was all downhill from there. Hands down, it was the worst piece of shyte car I have ever owned.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Dilliw on December 24, 2017, 07:50:14 AM
Renault Alliance/Encore was car of the year sometime in the 80's.  I purchased an Encore, mostly because I needed a car and the Mazda that I really wanted had a long waiting list.  The first week I owned the car, the starter went and it was all downhill from there. Hands down, it was the worst piece of shyte car I have ever owned.

Did you write this?

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/Articles/2016/08/12/Motor-Trend-owes-me-an-apology (https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/Articles/2016/08/12/Motor-Trend-owes-me-an-apology)
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: rss29 on December 24, 2017, 08:14:36 AM
Many here may be too young to remember when Motor Trend "sold" the Car of the Year title.   :embarassed:
I stopped paying attention to the ‘Car of the Year’ award back in about 1990 when they awarded it to the Chevy Caprice. That made me realize the award was for sale as that car clearly wasn’t worthy of an enthusiast award.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: blackcat on December 24, 2017, 08:21:15 AM
Did you write this?

https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/Articles/2016/08/12/Motor-Trend-owes-me-an-apology (https://www.hagerty.com/articles-videos/Articles/2016/08/12/Motor-Trend-owes-me-an-apology)

The writer was being polite. The last time I saw that car, which I mostly gave away to one of my employee's, it was in the slow lane on the NJ turnpike with both front fender's flapping from the rusted AMC workmanship. I never had a problem with the underpowered Renault engine, which was made in France but the American workmanship was simply awful, and it was the last USA car I have ever purchased.

"Car and Driver formally apologizes for naming the Renault Alliance to the 1983 10 Best Cars list. For the past 26 years, it�s been gnawing at our collective gut like a shame-induced ulcer. The car was trash. We should have known that back then, and it�s taken us too long to confess our grievous mistake. Let this frank admission be the start of our penance.�
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Two Checks on December 24, 2017, 08:41:31 AM


Quote from: PeteS on Today at 07:29:56 AM (http://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=93866.msg1483362#msg1483362)
The '78 and '79 came with a Volkswagen motor (Rabbit??). It ran pretty well but I doubt would top 100. They had to modify a few parts like the alternator mount (thin stamped steel) to get it to fit in the Horizon.
Its biggest attribute was it a great car in the snow. I think it had a 54-46 front-rear weight bias and was as capable as many 4WDs.

Pete

The engine was a 1.7 l stroked version of the 1.5 l Rabbit engine that was shipped to Chrysler minus manifolds, carbs and timing components. The Chrysler built 2.2 came along in 81. I had both the 80 Omni with the 1.7 and an 81 Charger 2.2. Both very dependable with regular normal maintenance.


Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: guzziownr on December 24, 2017, 05:20:07 PM
The COTY candidates are carefully chosen based on how many advertising dollars the company is willing to spend.  No Ferrari will ever win COTY as they never buy advertising pages.  Has Mercedes ever won?  They have made a big move down market in recent years with minivans and SUVs.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Aaron D. on December 24, 2017, 05:54:55 PM
Didn't the Citroen SM win one year, or was that Car & Driver?
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowings on December 24, 2017, 06:55:10 PM
Alfa Romeo FTW!

(https://d39a3h63xew422.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/21093004/Rosario-Liberti-Alfa-Romeo-33s-4-2000x1333.jpg)

https://petrolicious.com/articles/this-is-how-the-alfa-romeo-tipo-33s-dominated-the-beauty-pageant-and-the-racetrack (https://petrolicious.com/articles/this-is-how-the-alfa-romeo-tipo-33s-dominated-the-beauty-pageant-and-the-racetrack)
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: JohninVT on December 25, 2017, 08:24:09 AM
No one has reviewed the Alfa and NOT had it break down.  They might not say it in their review, but it did.  Go find ten full length tests on the car and at least six will say it left them stranded. 

The Vega warped head/block issues weren’t solely because of anti freeze.  I had one in high school in the 80’s and replaced at least three.  Vegas were like Chevy Chevettes; 90% of them were already in junk yards by 1985 so even though they were unreliable heaps, parts were inexpensive and plentiful so they were perfect for poor, mechanically inclined high school kids. 
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowheeladdict on December 25, 2017, 12:30:21 PM
No one has reviewed the Alfa and NOT had it break down.  They might not say it in their review, but it did.  Go find ten full length tests on the car and at least six will say it left them stranded. 

The Vega warped head/block issues weren�t solely because of anti freeze.  I had one in high school in the 80�s and replaced at least three.  Vegas were like Chevy Chevettes; 90% of them were already in junk yards by 1985 so even though they were unreliable heaps, parts were inexpensive and plentiful so they were perfect for poor, mechanically inclined high school kids.

My Dad replaced his Vega with a Chevette for his commuter car.  I think they were the cheapest American cars when he bought them.  They appeared to provide good service as commuter cars.  I have owned some cars that history says weren't great, but I must have been fortunate or take good care of my vehicles.  I had a Vega, Chevy Monza, Hyundai Excel, Ford Aerostar and got great service out of all of them with just routine maintenance care. 
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: John Ulrich on December 25, 2017, 02:13:54 PM
My Dad replaced his Vega with a Chevette for his commuter car.  I think they were the cheapest American cars when he bought them.

I car pooled with friends in the 70's.  I had a 1963 Nova (10 years old) that was head and tails better then the new Vega and Pinto I pooled in.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: wymple on December 25, 2017, 06:05:42 PM
I'm a Chevy man at heart, and the worst single car I ever owned was a 62 Chevy II Nova.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: arveno on December 26, 2017, 03:12:41 AM
Alfa Romeo Giulia quadrifoglio

Beautiful design , V6 2.9 Liters engine , 505 HP , 443 ft/lbs torque , 0-60 in 3.8 sec. , top speed 191 mph , what's not like ?

........... my driving license won't last longer than a week LOL


https://www.alfaromeousa.com/cars/alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio


A must place to visit is the Alfa Museum , not too far from Mandello . ( couple of hours driving ) 
Bring a camera. :wink:
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowheeladdict on December 26, 2017, 05:37:13 AM
I car pooled with friends in the 70's.  I had a 1963 Nova (10 years old) that was head and tails better then the new Vega and Pinto I pooled in.

Not saying they were good cars, but they were very inexpensive and my Dad had a bad experience with a couple used cars so he preferred to buy new and keep until it died.  The family cars during this same period were a late 60s Country Squire wagon, replaced by a '76 Chevy Beauville 12 passenger van. 
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Gliderjohn on December 26, 2017, 06:34:21 AM
Test drove a new Chevette once. It was four degrees and the heater would not work at all. Didn't buy.
GliderJohn
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Tom on December 26, 2017, 02:36:56 PM
I sort of recall that a Guzzi won the cruiser of the year award from Cycle World around the late 1990's. This didn't solve the company's problems in the U.S. I hope Alfa/Fiat can do better.

Moto

P.S. I recently read a review somewhere of the Alfa Stelvio SUV that made me absolutely want to run out and buy one. Maybe the new Alfas really are great!

1998 California EV.  Still a good bike and many being resold w/low mileage.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Turin on December 26, 2017, 08:57:10 PM
Quote
Alfa Romeo Giulia quadrifoglio

Beautiful design , V6 2.9 Liters engine , 505 HP , 443 ft/lbs torque , 0-60 in 3.8 sec. , top speed 191 mph , what's not like ?

The price tag. $75,000... Yikes!
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: oldbike54 on December 26, 2017, 09:08:04 PM
The price tag. $75,000... Yikes!

 Still 3.1 million bucks cheaper than the new Bugatti Chiron  :shocked:

 Dusty
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: EldoMike on December 26, 2017, 09:19:51 PM
1998 California EV.  Still a good bike and many being resold w/low mileage.

Not mine but cheap...

https://bn.craigslist.org/mcy/d/1998-moto-guzzi-california-v11/6438069381.html
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: ohiorider on December 27, 2017, 06:35:52 AM
I recall before discontinuing the Vega, GM began installing Pontiac Iron Duke engines in themm (or am I thinking of another GM model?)

Bob
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: wymple on December 27, 2017, 10:08:08 AM
I think they finally just sleeved the block.

"Chevrolet added a coolant overflow bottle and an electronic low-coolant indicator in 1974 that could be retrofitted to earlier models at no cost. Under a revised 50,000-mile (80,000 km) engine warranty for 1971 to 1975 Vegas, the owner of a damaged engine could choose replacement with a new short block or a rebuilt steel-sleeved unit, which proved costly for Chevrolet. GM engineer Fred Kneisler maintains that too much emphasis had been put on overheating problems, the real culprits being brittle valve stem seals and too-thin piston plating. Regardless of the cause, damaged cylinder walls were common.

The 1976 to 1977 Dura-Built 140 engine had improved engine block coolant pathways, redesigned head gasket, water pump and thermostat, and a five-year/60,000 mi (97,000 km) warranty"
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowings on December 27, 2017, 12:26:30 PM
Anyway, another nice Alfa Romeo:

(https://d39a3h63xew422.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/08150926/1973-alfa-romeo-2000-gtv-12-1000x667.jpg)

(https://d39a3h63xew422.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/08150944/1973-alfa-romeo-2000-gtv-14-1000x667.jpg)
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Don G on December 27, 2017, 01:14:20 PM
My Dad got around the crappy Vega engine problem by installing a 283 V8, now that was something better.  DonG
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Antietam Classic Cycle on December 27, 2017, 01:25:41 PM
My Dad got around the crappy Vega engine problem by installing a 283 V8, now that was something better.  DonG

Yep. My brother and his friends all went with V8s of some description. His choice was a 327-300 "enhanced" with an Isky roller cam, manifold with three two-barrel carbs and a TH350 trans. Problem there was, the rear end wasn't up to the job and spider gears shattered like glass. So, a Ford 9" rear end was grafted in. Problem there was, the rear end started ripping the suspension mounts loose from the body! Eventually, he sub-framed and tubbed the rear and used a narrowed 9". Problem there was, the shortened axles weren't up to the strain of the 396 and TH400, they'd shear off like they were machined.

His friends drove much more like sane people and their mild Chevy 283s and Buick 215s were easy on the drivetrain as long as they didn't do stoplight-to-stoplight drag-racing like my brother.  :wink:
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowheeladdict on December 28, 2017, 06:49:10 AM
My Dad got around the crappy Vega engine problem by installing a 283 V8, now that was something better.  DonG

In New England the OEM engine outlasted the fisher body. 
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: willowstreetguzziguy on December 28, 2017, 01:25:29 PM
I just looked at the previous Motor Trend Cars of the Years since 1949 and most of them are worthless junk now!
 
2001 PT Cruiser,
1997 Chevy Malibu
1996 Dodge Caravan
1995 Chrysler Cirrus
1991 Chevy Caprice
1983 AMC/Renault Alliance
1981 Chrysler K cars
1980 Chevy Citation, 1978 Dodge Omni
1976 Plymouth Volare
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Tom on December 28, 2017, 04:11:07 PM
Hey......I have worthless junk in the 2001 PT Cruiser.  :grin:  Gotta replace some bushings in the A arm.  Maintenance on the A/C.  Paint is shot but........it was given to me.  It's doing fine.   :tongue:
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowheeladdict on December 28, 2017, 06:58:35 PM
I just looked at the previous Motor Trend Cars of the Years since 1949 and most of them are worthless junk now!
 
2001 PT Cruiser,
1997 Chevy Malibu
1996 Dodge Caravan
1995 Chrysler Cirrus
1991 Chevy Caprice
1983 AMC/Renault Alliance
1981 Chrysler K cars
1980 Chevy Citation, 1978 Dodge Omni
1976 Plymouth Volare

70 years of car of the year, and your list contains 10.  That doesn't seem like most, but maybe you were just listing your top 10 worst car of the year cars.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowings on December 28, 2017, 07:02:20 PM
(https://d39a3h63xew422.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/29093249/Alfa-Romeo-Motorsports.jpg)
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Tom on December 28, 2017, 07:39:35 PM
70 years of car of the year, and your list contains 10.  That doesn't seem like most, but maybe you were just listing your top 10 worst car of the year cars.

14.28% bad.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowheeladdict on December 29, 2017, 06:12:13 AM
I was hoping that the Italian badged Mazda Miata was going to be Alfa Romeo instead of Fiat.  I was also hoping that it would have had the Japanese drive train and only body styling differences.  I did go test drive the new Fiat 124 spider, but am not a Chrysler / Fiat fan at all.  I think I would still choose a Miata over the 124 if I were to buy a little roadster. 
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Moto on December 29, 2017, 01:24:05 PM
The car reviewer for Arstechnica also picked the Guilia as his car of the year, in the $70,000 Quadrifoglia version. He preferred it to a Ferrari 488 GTB, among others.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/12/2017-behind-the-wheel-our-favorite-cars-of-the-year/ (https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/12/2017-behind-the-wheel-our-favorite-cars-of-the-year/)

He also indicated he thought the regular Guilia wouldn't be far behind, though he hadn't tested it yet.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: stevet on December 29, 2017, 07:45:22 PM
While purchasing my Fiat 124 Spider last spring I was able to witness the unwrapping of a couple Guilias fresh off the truck.  Photos mean nothing compared to seeing that car in person.  It is simply a gorgeous automobile, much more attractive than its Euro counterparts.  Far outside my price range but if it was, I'd give it serious consideration.

Alfa didn't want to market the car that became the Fiat 124.  They argued Alfas are in a different, higher price category (how would they compete with the Mazda MX5 with Alfa pricing?) and an Italian-built car at that, so Fiat, the mothership, opted to put the Fiat division badge on it with pricing similar to the Mazda.  Am I glad they did- a proven and reliable Fiat turbo engine mated to the strong Mazda transmission choices wrapped inside the Fiat sculpted and Mazda built chassis and body... the best of both worlds.  I'm absolutely loving my Spider.  About 8000 trouble free miles of fun in the sun so far.  Unfortunately it is now mothballed until spring.

Those fond of the MX5 should thank Fiat.  Rumor has it that Mazda was going to discontinue the MX5 with the 2015 NC generation model, and that Fiat's desire for a roadster, and contracting with Mazda to build it, lead to the new 2016 ND generation MX5.

Steve.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowings on December 29, 2017, 08:39:02 PM
(https://www.alfaromeousa.com/content/alfausa/en/cars/alfa-romeo-4c/jcr:content/main/promo/image.img.jpg/1512766901681.jpg)

This little two-seater ain't so bad...
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Tom on December 29, 2017, 08:40:25 PM
Quanto USD???
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowings on December 29, 2017, 08:41:49 PM

2018 4C COUPE

MSRP* starting at $55,900
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowheeladdict on December 30, 2017, 06:09:53 AM
While purchasing my Fiat 124 Spider last spring I was able to witness the unwrapping of a couple Guilias fresh off the truck.  Photos mean nothing compared to seeing that car in person.  It is simply a gorgeous automobile, much more attractive than its Euro counterparts.  Far outside my price range but if it was, I'd give it serious consideration.

Alfa didn't want to market the car that became the Fiat 124.  They argued Alfas are in a different, higher price category (how would they compete with the Mazda MX5 with Alfa pricing?) and an Italian-built car at that, so Fiat, the mothership, opted to put the Fiat division badge on it with pricing similar to the Mazda.  Am I glad they did- a proven and reliable Fiat turbo engine mated to the strong Mazda transmission choices wrapped inside the Fiat sculpted and Mazda built chassis and body... the best of both worlds.  I'm absolutely loving my Spider.  About 8000 trouble free miles of fun in the sun so far.  Unfortunately it is now mothballed until spring.

Those fond of the MX5 should thank Fiat.  Rumor has it that Mazda was going to discontinue the MX5 with the 2015 NC generation model, and that Fiat's desire for a roadster, and contracting with Mazda to build it, lead to the new 2016 ND generation MX5.

Steve.

I heard the same rumor about the Miata, but I heard it in that Mazda did not want to discontinue the miata because of the recognition it provides the company and its enthusiastic following but the bean counters were winning the battle.  Fiat making a car that has a totally different appearance and engine helped keep the assembly line open and probably didn't steal away too many Miata fans.  It brought in folks who liked the idea of a Miata, but couldn't see themselves driving one.  Mazda almost built the Miata too well since I still see NA cars all the time.  Much more than NB cars.  I am a fan of the new RF but I have already realized with past roadster puchases that I can't really have a roadster and motorcycles at the same time.  Because whenever it is perfect weather to do top down driving it is perfect weather to be on two wheels. 

The thing that pisses me off about both the Miata and the 124 is how they have different offerings globally.  Outside the US gets better seats and colors, plus backup camera.  I am starting to see low mileage loaded NDs in the used segment at entry level prices so if I keep looking and the savings reaches the point of burning a hole I might jump on a club with brembo package.  Haven't seen any RFs used yet.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Orange Guzzi on December 30, 2017, 08:59:02 AM
The Dodge Neon is re badged as a smaller engine Fiat in Mexico. 
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: stevet on December 31, 2017, 02:13:51 PM
Oh, my.  Video!
Alfa Romeo C4-
https://youtu.be/KnuNv77rB0Q (https://youtu.be/KnuNv77rB0Q)
https://youtu.be/ySvb44ucuIE (https://youtu.be/ySvb44ucuIE)
https://youtu.be/-5K_Nvquft8 (https://youtu.be/-5K_Nvquft8)

Alfa Romeo Guilia-
https://youtu.be/T0wg4CdATJk (https://youtu.be/T0wg4CdATJk)

The Fiat 124 Spider in this video, the base level Classica, is the one I own.  Stripped down driving pleasure, no bells/whistles, not a race car.  I'm starting the video near the end.  His "base level car" gripes are solved with the upgrade model 124, and also found in the aftermarket.  But when he speaks of being one with your surroundings while driving this car, I am in full agreement, it is delightful, and only around base $25k.  Turbo boost loss- greatly improved with a $150 GFB DV+ turbo diverter valve upgrade, a 10-minute DIY job.  The thermostat check engine light- a known warranty issue, they had a bad batch make it into early assembly, talk of them on the web is already nil.  Mine- problem free in 8000 miles.  The 124 Spider, the ragtop made for Guzzi riders.  A gentleman's roadster.  The 124 Spider Abarth version is goosed up for performance and suspension/handling.
https://youtu.be/anc5uHpYuD8?t=17m1s (https://youtu.be/anc5uHpYuD8?t=17m1s)

Lastly, the story of 2 track-ready ragtops- the Mazda ND MX5 and the Fiat 124 Spider, built identically except for their engines.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/family-feud-mazda-mx-5-versus-fiat-124/ (https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/family-feud-mazda-mx-5-versus-fiat-124/)

Steve.

(https://www.alfaromeousa.com/content/alfausa/en/cars/alfa-romeo-4c/jcr:content/main/promo/image.img.jpg/1512766901681.jpg)

This little two-seater ain't so bad...
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowheeladdict on January 01, 2018, 08:06:16 AM


Lastly, the story of 2 track-ready ragtops- the Mazda ND MX5 and the Fiat 124 Spider, built identically except for their engines.
https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/family-feud-mazda-mx-5-versus-fiat-124/ (https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/family-feud-mazda-mx-5-versus-fiat-124/)

Steve.

More than just the engine according to all the reviews I researched.  The manual transmission in the 124 is out of the NC Miata.  Suspension components are Mopar. 

I have been looking at the used market for the ND Miata.  I am finding loaded '16 Clubs with less than 5000 miles with asking prices around $23,000.  That is $10,000 depreciation!  Doesn't sound like I will be buying new.  The other item I need to research before I purchase will be whether the Miata seat can handle an internal inflatable lumbar support for my bad back.

The seats in the 124 do look more substantial so if the Miata can't accommodate a lumbar support I will see if the 124 can.  If not, then I may just forgo the convertible and get a Toyota 86 or 370Z. 

Of course this is all predicated on whether my back heals enough for touring on the bikes or if I have to become a casual rider from now on.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: stevet on January 01, 2018, 01:28:28 PM
More than just the engine according to all the reviews I researched.  The manual transmission in the 124 is out of the NC Miata.  Suspension components are Mopar. 

I have been looking at the used market for the ND Miata.  I am finding loaded '16 Clubs with less than 5000 miles with asking prices around $23,000.  That is $10,000 depreciation!  Doesn't sound like I will be buying new.  The other item I need to research before I purchase will be whether the Miata seat can handle an internal inflatable lumbar support for my bad back.

The seats in the 124 do look more substantial so if the Miata can't accommodate a lumbar support I will see if the 124 can.  If not, then I may just forgo the convertible and get a Toyota 86 or 370Z. 

Of course this is all predicated on whether my back heals enough for touring on the bikes or if I have to become a casual rider from now on.

Clarification- built identical except the engines, I should have said built for track use, a lot of factory parts were replaced on both cars, but the builds were spec'ed to match each other so the test could allow the engines to be differentiated.

Anyway, back to street use... you wondered about lumbar support on the seat.  Look at this article, it may offer some assistance if you are into DIY work.  Written for the 124, but may also apply for the ND MX5.  https://21stcenturyfiat124spider.wordpress.com/2017/04/17/adding-lumbar-support/ (https://21stcenturyfiat124spider.wordpress.com/2017/04/17/adding-lumbar-support/)

Steve.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowheeladdict on January 01, 2018, 01:40:06 PM
Clarification- built identical except the engines, I should have said built for track use, a lot of factory parts were replaced on both cars, but the builds were spec'ed to match each other so the test could allow the engines to be differentiated.

Anyway, back to street use... you wondered about lumbar support on the seat.  Look at this article, it may offer some assistance if you are into DIY work.  Written for the 124, but may also apply for the ND MX5.  https://21stcenturyfiat124spider.wordpress.com/2017/04/17/adding-lumbar-support/ (https://21stcenturyfiat124spider.wordpress.com/2017/04/17/adding-lumbar-support/)

Steve.

Thanks for that link.  Ain't much to those seats like I suspected. 
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowings on February 06, 2018, 06:47:23 PM
This week's Alfa movie:

(https://d39a3h63xew422.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/10091545/alfa-11-2000x1334.jpg)

(https://d39a3h63xew422.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/10092200/alfa-251-2000x1334.jpg)

https://petrolicious.com/films/alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-a-study-in-racing-genetics (https://petrolicious.com/films/alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-a-study-in-racing-genetics)

Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: taz on February 06, 2018, 07:28:49 PM
I picked up the Giulia Q4 Ti in July, car is a joy to drive.  No visits to the dealer and pretty reliable.  the 2.0 Turbo is very impressive 0-60 5.1 seconds.  I went from a fantastic, but uninspiring MB S550 that was an excellent drive, but was not fun.  The Alfa is a pure grin machine. 

It did win COTY at Motor Trend
10 Best Cars from Car & Driver
Made top 10 in Robb Report

Early builds had software issues, post May 17 builds seem to be well sorted. 
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nzedMH/IMG_2557.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nzedMH)
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: ohiorider on February 06, 2018, 07:39:23 PM
This goes back years.  Probably 1988.

My company had sold a plant-wide broadband networking system to one of the major US auto manufacturers.  We'd originally negotiated with their plant engineers, but in the interim, a company owned by Ross Perot had been hired to manage plant networking.

We did have a problem with one model of our RF networking devices.  The plant had nearly 30 of our Network Interface Units  that needed retrofitted, however, they were several months out of warranty.

I went to bat for the customer.  Got them a price of $50 a unit to upgrade their out-of-warranty products, instead of the initial $400.

When I approached them with the $50 offer,  their response was (as they stared me down) 'what would YOU think of a company that would want to charge you to repair an obviously defective product?'

My response wasn't corporately responsible, but I just couldn't help myself.  My response was simply "I owned a Vega."
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Gramps_Guzzi on February 06, 2018, 07:45:00 PM
The Chevrolet Vega won Car of the Year in '71, so I don't find that award all that impressive.  :wink:

Yep I owned a 71 Vega wagon "Camback GT" from new in 71 till I finally sold it in 73.
What a POS it was.
I don't think any of the body parts fit together properly, it leaked water and rattled from new.
Luckily though I did not experience any of the notorious engine problems.

I recall that at the time it was GM's answer to the Japanese auto onslaught.
So much for automobile patriotism, Live and Learn.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowheeladdict on February 06, 2018, 08:47:56 PM
I picked up the Giulia Q4 Ti in July, car is a joy to drive.  No visits to the dealer and pretty reliable.  the 2.0 Turbo is very impressive 0-60 5.1 seconds.  I went from a fantastic, but uninspiring MB S550 that was an excellent drive, but was not fun.  The Alfa is a pure grin machine. 

It did win COTY at Motor Trend
10 Best Cars from Car & Driver
Made top 10 in Robb Report

Early builds had software issues, post May 17 builds seem to be well sorted. 
(http://thumb.ibb.co/nzedMH/IMG_2557.jpg) (http://ibb.co/nzedMH)


I stopped in the fiat / Alfa dealer to see the recaro seats in the 124 spider.  Saw your car but what really drew me in was the Stelvio.  I'm not paying over $50k for a car though.  The seats in both Alfas looked amazing though.
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Moto on February 07, 2018, 09:56:04 AM
I stopped in the fiat / Alfa dealer to see the recaro seats in the 124 spider.  Saw your car but what really drew me in was the Stelvio.  I'm not paying over $50k for a car though.  The seats in both Alfas looked amazing though.
The driver's seats on the city buses I take to my office are Recaros.  :rolleyes:
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: JJ on February 07, 2018, 10:01:15 AM
Never owned or drove an Alfa Romeo, but always admired these:  1975 GTV Rally car. :thumb: :cool: :1:


(http://thumb.ibb.co/cKGcix/Screen_Shot_2018_02_07_at_8_59_26_AM.png) (http://ibb.co/cKGcix)
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: Tom on February 07, 2018, 11:29:20 AM
The driver's seats on the city buses I take to my office are Recaros.  :rolleyes:

Same thing for the Honolulu buses. :tongue:
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: twowings on February 07, 2018, 02:02:33 PM
All-Alfa, all the time:

https://petrolicious.com/films/corsa-spec-alfa-romeo-gta-sparks-its-pilots-passion


https://petrolicious.com/films/this-alfa-romeo-spider-is-a-well-oiled-multitool
Title: Re: An Italian wins Car Of The Year, amazing!
Post by: JJ on February 07, 2018, 04:36:52 PM
All-Alfa, all the time:

https://petrolicious.com/films/corsa-spec-alfa-romeo-gta-sparks-its-pilots-passion


https://petrolicious.com/films/this-alfa-romeo-spider-is-a-well-oiled-multitool

Well, along with a red Alfa Romeo Spider...I guess I would drive one of these gemstones!! :shocked: :shocked: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


(http://thumb.ibb.co/h8OVmH/Screen_Shot_2018_02_07_at_3_35_19_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/h8OVmH)

(http://thumb.ibb.co/hqsO6H/Screen_Shot_2018_02_07_at_3_35_30_PM.png) (http://ibb.co/hqsO6H)

best image hosting service (http://imgbb.com/)