Wildguzzi.com
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dxhall on January 01, 2018, 06:36:23 PM
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This is as obscure as questions come, but I thought I'd give it a try. I've also posted this on the COG forum.
I'm still struggling with cam timing on the Centauro. I've had it together several times, but the motor won't run. The manual says that the reference mark on the service shaft should line up with the timing mark on the inside of the case. The timing mark is obvious, but there's no visible "reference mark" on the service shaft. The service shaft is the shaft that's where the cam would be on a conventional Guzzi motor.
Any ideas what is meant by the "reference mark"? I figured out what a "ducket" is, if anyone is wondering.
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<scratching head> It's late, but I don't remember the service shaft having anything to do with timing. At any rate, this will bump it to the top.
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The "service shaft" turns at one-half the speed of the crank. The phonic wheel, which triggers the ignition timing sensor, is on the service shaft. I think it would be possible to get the service shaft 360d out of phase to the cams, so that the plugs would fire on the wrong stroke. The question (I think) is whether there's a way to tell without taking the timing cover off, which I suspect is what the "reference mark" is about. I may have missed that day of law school.
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I'm not at home, so don't have access to the manual, but I'll bet the timing cover has to come off. It's been years, though, and memory fails me. :embarrassed:
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It's been years, though, and memory fails me. :embarrassed:
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--p8CXpTaZ--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/kscodkw7uuvsf4osih4l.jpg)
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Have the verniers been arsed about with or is this just a belt change?
Pete
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I removed the verniers when I took it all apart to replace the oil pump.
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Page 84: "After placing the engine in the TDC position, in the left cylinder combustion phase, check that the reference "1" Fig.11-48 on the service shaft is lined up with reference "2"-Fig.11-48 on the timing cover."
If that is what you are talking about, the photo is kinda vague for the #1 to #2 position.
I wish there was visual tutorial for this replacement of the oil pump, because it is the one reason why I haven't tackled this job. Good luck.
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blackcat
I'm going to be attempting it soon to install the steel gears & Das pump. I promised Joe I'd photo document it, so I'll be doing something
Plus I know somebody who has already completed it on their bike that I can go to for help
John
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Did you figure it out, how to check?
When the LH is at TDC service shaft phase wheel will have notches lined up w/sensor hole.
Edit: Should be 180* across from hole, had to look.
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blackcat
I'm going to be attempting it soon to install the steel gears & Das pump. I promised Joe I'd photo document it, so I'll be doing something
Plus I know somebody who has already completed it on their bike that I can go to for help
John
Cool. I assume that you have some of the tools?
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Service Shaft Timiing on my Centauro
You can see the phonic wheel behind the aluminium gear and at the most left hole in the image is where the 3 teeth are missing.
(http://i1072.photobucket.com/albums/w370/Flangeman_70/Centy/IMG_1866_zpsddjygu62.jpg)
Importantly the cam timing marks on the heads are in different positions. Look at page 85 of the manual. The RHS head is at the 10:30 position from the vertical plane of the engine not the head and the LHS head is at the 15:00 position from the vertical plane of the engine not the head.
Best
Adam
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Cool. I assume that you have some of the tools?
Not yet, I have drawings from Chuck if I need to get them made & some other drawings from Joe Caruso who gave me some drawings made by a French owner
As far as I'm aware there is nothing too special required, I'll check with the other owner I know who completed the mod on his bike, to see exactly how he did it
John
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Not yet, I have drawings from Chuck if I need to get them made & some other drawings from Joe Caruso who gave me some drawings made by a French owner
As far as I'm aware there is nothing too special required, I'll check with the other owner I know who completed the mod on his bike, to see exactly how he did it
John
Great, take lot's of pictures.
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Steve - so if I put the left cylinder at TDC on the compression stroke and then remove the timing sensor, will the gap in the teeth on the phonic wheel be visible through the hole where the sensor was?
If the gap is instead 180d from the sensor hole, then I don't see a way to check this without removing the timing cover. Right?
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just curious, why do these holes in the belt pulley look so rooted out?
(http://thumb.ibb.co/gYaFjw/IMG_1866_zpsddjygu62.jpg) (http://ibb.co/gYaFjw)
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If you want to see the marks yes. If you have a degree wheel you should be able to check it w/o pulling front cover.
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I wish there was visual tutorial for this replacement of the oil pump, because it is the one reason why I haven't tackled this job. Good luck.
I've done that job, and may have pix on my computer at home. I'll checkwhen Iget back.
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This makes me realize that my understanding of the ignition sensor mechanism wasn't right. What is it in the phonic wheel that triggers the sensor?
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A missing tooth.
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Just wondering if it runs yet?
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My job is interfering. I'm pretty sure that, without the reference mark on the service shaft, I ended up with the phonic wheel 180d from where it ought to have been.
I took the timing cover off again, installed the new Joe Caruso gear, matched the marks on the gears, put a reference mark on the service shaft, and am ready to put it all back together yet again. I'm getting really good at dissaembling and reassembling this stuff and setting the cams. I wish this were a more marketable skill.
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It's the same as with any >2000 guzzi I think, only they don't have the belts. But timing is the same.
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Sometimes it's alot like work.
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I have placed an order with Joe for Spring delivery. The kit may sit on the shelf for awhile while I get up the courage to tackle it.
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I'll try to write something up so that others can avoid my mistakes. With luck, I'll have it running this weekend.
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I'll try to write something up so that others can avoid my mistakes. With luck, I'll have it running this weekend.
Cool, thanks!