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General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: ctk111 on January 27, 2018, 08:53:48 AM
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I need some new head pipes for my '73 Eldorado and I'd like some opinions on the pros and cons of either steel or chrome. Thanks.
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Always go stainless , always always always .
Dusty
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Stainless steel is not stainless in an exhaust system application and requires some polishing to retain its visual luster. However that is only a esthetic issue and the pipes will likely never corrode seriously, in a way that affects function.
Chrome plating does not stain so readily but only protects the outside, in the end the exhaust is susceptible to rust through from inside, caused by heat and water from the engine exhaust.
The ultimate is (or would be) chrome plated stainless steel, but I've never seen it.
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many of the "chrome" headers, particularly on Harleys, are actually covers over a steel header.
Some of us like the "stainless look" that gets that brown patina.
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Polished stainless is a wonderful material for exhaust pipes and fenders...probably the parts of a bike that are most prone to oxidation. Like LowRyter, I like the visual characteristics, too.
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Always go stainless , always always always .
Dusty
always always always
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I've had a set of Mistral stainless pipes and mufflers on my Eldo for five years or so. They've turned a nice golden color and give the bike a sort of "restored, but ridden" look. I'd definitely buy them again. Stainless is the way to go.
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Thanks for everyone's input. My bike has a mix of old and new parts and hasn't been painted in a while. I'm gonna go with stainless. Sounds like they are more durable and will match the overall patina of the bike.
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:thumb:
Dusty
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Stainless headers with stainless Mistral exhaust:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/czO21w/Red_Eldo_exhaust.jpg) (http://ibb.co/czO21w)
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The chrome on the headers of both my modern V7s didn't last very long, rusted, corroded & messily disfigured (although other people don't seem to have as severe a problem - might be something to do with distances travelled). The stainless Agostini headers now on the V7C started going golden almost immediately. 8,000km later the front sections were black, then running out to brown, tan & gold. Polishing gets rid of some of the black, but will likely need concentrated attention with a powered tool.
Consider ceramic coating - easily applied to steel - better thermal properties - now in a range of colours, I believe there is even a clear (I should have investigated that option for the stainless). One big advantage in practice is they cool very quickly, so plastic is less likely to melt on. Another advantage is they don't need polish - a wipe down only. If it's easier or cheaper to start with plain steel headers, that's the way I'd go.
Mal
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many of the "chrome" headers, particularly on Harleys, are actually covers over a steel header.
Some of us like the "stainless look" that gets that brown patina.
The chrome on the Cali 14 headers are also covers over plain steel pipes. Same appears to be the case on the V7iii, and maybe other models as well. I also like the look of stainless — as on my Beemer.
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My MuZ 660 single came with a stainless exhaust system. Now the header pipes are black and the muffler is a bright gold. The header isn't really noticeable on this bike w/radiator and I like the look of the gold muffler.
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I sorta wish SS wheels were more widely available for tubed wheelsets. It’s tough to keep up with cleaning wheels, so the chromed ones start pitting pretty quick. Maybe I’ll send my hubs off to Woody’s and have him lace me up a set...
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I think Dusty uses a pink powdercoat... :shocked:
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:popcorn:
I think Dusty uses a pink powdercoat... :shocked:
http://wildguzzi.com/forum/Smileys/default/popcorn.gif
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I think Dusty uses a pink powdercoat... :shocked:
How could you tell from so far behind me ?
Dusty
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There are other factors to take into consideration before you make a final decision between chrome and stainless.
What mufflers do you plan to use? Some of the stainless headpipes are made of 38 mm pipe and are "necked down" to 37 mm where the mufflers slip on. The necked down area isn't quite long enough for some mufflers (Lafranconi "Frankfurters" being one and IIRC MACs are another) unless the inlet is somehow opened up (which ruins the chrome). If you can afford a full Mistral or Armours stainless system, then you'll be okay.
https://www.armoursltd.co.uk/product/pipe-moto-guzzi-v7/
https://www.armoursltd.co.uk/product/silencer-moto-guzzi-v7-with-balance/
Because they are 38 mm in diameter, some of the stainless pipes also interfere slightly with the "box" sidestand mount on the "police" left crashbar. I've had to do some grinding to make clearance more than once...
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MG Cycle sells both 37mm and 38mm inlet Mistrals for this reason. I bought my mufflers years ago and had the nice man at Midas expand them a bit to fit.
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Had my V7Sport exhausts rechromed locally - haven’t finished it but the chrome has gone to shit, bastards. The stainless exhaust on my Daytona developed a nice colour, maintained the golden sheen with brasso of all things... :1: stainless
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Had my V7Sport exhausts rechromed locally - haven’t finished it but the chrome has gone to shit, bastards. The stainless exhaust on my Daytona developed a nice colour, maintained the golden sheen with brasso of all things... :1: stainless
I have to jump on the stainless bandwagon too. I've had both over the years and stainless looks so much better after a while.
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I have to jump on the stainless bandwagon too. I've had both over the years and stainless looks so much better after a while.
Hi Jeremy.
What is your current ride ?
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Always go stainless , always always always .
Dusty
I have to jump on the stainless bandwagon too. I've had both over the years and stainless looks so much better after a while.
And here I've been living with the black chromed steel headers for so many years, even thinking that they're looking good. :embarrassed:
But now I'm told otherwise, and that the best thing I can do is to start looking for some stainless ones. :undecided:
You WG members are for sure a merciless lot ,as I'm getting to understand now that most of my choices and most of what I'm doing to the bike is bad or wrong.
Its not without a certain pain that I must confess that I made my luggage-rack without any use of vise grips, and I don't want to talk about the dreadfully uncomfortable stock seat today.
What`s important to me now is to try and save the humble remains of my self-esteem. :sad:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mBg1UG/DSC02220_zpsa168419d.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mBg1UG)
:cool: :boozing:
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There are other factors to take into consideration before you make a final decision between chrome and stainless.
What mufflers do you plan to use? Some of the stainless headpipes are made of 38 mm pipe and are "necked down" to 37 mm where the mufflers slip on. The necked down area isn't quite long enough for some mufflers (Lafranconi "Frankfurters" being one and IIRC MACs are another) unless the inlet is somehow opened up (which ruins the chrome). If you can afford a full Mistral or Armours stainless system, then you'll be okay.
https://www.armoursltd.co.uk/product/pipe-moto-guzzi-v7/
https://www.armoursltd.co.uk/product/silencer-moto-guzzi-v7-with-balance/
Because they are 38 mm in diameter, some of the stainless pipes also interfere slightly with the "box" sidestand mount on the "police" left crashbar. I've had to do some grinding to make clearance more than once...
it is pretty easy to neck the 38 mm pipes to 37 mm,
just take a big pipe cutter( the ones with a cutting wheel) remove the cutting wheel and fit some sort of bush instead.
clamp it on the pipe , turn a couple of times , and you will see the diameter decrease.
i was fed up with rusting V7sport headers, now i buy these
https://www.ebay.de/itm/MOTO-GUZZI-Krummer-links-V7-Spezial-850-GT-VA/162305023403?hash=item25ca221dab:g:n0QAAOSw3ZtaKPxq (https://www.ebay.de/itm/MOTO-GUZZI-Krummer-links-V7-Spezial-850-GT-VA/162305023403?hash=item25ca221dab:g:n0QAAOSw3ZtaKPxq),
cut them to size, and reduce the diameter where needed.
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Had my V7Sport exhausts rechromed locally - haven�t finished it but the chrome has gone to shit, bastards. The stainless exhaust on my Daytona developed a nice colour, maintained the golden sheen with brasso of all things... :1: stainless
I had the same issue on my 750 Ducati. re-chromed did not stick.
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You WG members are for sure a merciless lot ,as I'm getting to understand now that most of my choices and most of what I'm doing to the bike is bad or wrong.
Its not without a certain pain that I must confess that I made my luggage-rack without any use of vise grips, and I don't want to talk about the dreadfully uncomfortable stock seat today.
What`s important to me now is to try and save the humble remains of my self-esteem. :sad:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mBg1UG/DSC02220_zpsa168419d.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mBg1UG)
:cool: :boozing:
[/quote]
Nothing wrong with black pipes either, IMHO, like on my CX100. In fact I prefer less chrome on a bike. :wink: What you prefer is what you should have. Screw what others think. They don't ride your bike nor paid for it.
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Thank you Wayne,- you saved my day.
I'm afraid I may have moved a little off the proper line of conversation, but really,- no offend was intended. :bike-037:
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My MuZ 660 single came with a stainless exhaust system. Now the header pipes are black and the muffler is a bright gold. The header isn't really noticeable on this bike w/radiator and I like the look of the gold muffler.
People with a different circumstance, having either visible header or persnickety eyes, need to polish a stainless header fairly regularly. Otherwise it will eventually be pitted and dull brown. The good news is that heavily oxidized stainless headers can very often be rescued with machine polishing, usually off the bike, and so they can be a good used buy (Guzzi Content)
Stain Magic is reasonably good for hand polishing, but not the miracle they would have you believe.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TNuecgpQOAk
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People with a different circumstance, having either visible header or persnickety eyes, need to polish a stainless header fairly regularly. Otherwise it will eventually be pitted and dull brown. The good news is that heavily oxidized stainless headers can very often be rescued with machine polishing, usually off the bike, and so they can be a good used buy (Guzzi Content)
Stain Magic is reasonably good for hand polishing, but not the miracle they would have you believe.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=TNuecgpQOAk
Like I said prior, what others think of my bikes appearance is not important to me. Only what I think of my bikes is important to me. I won't lose sleep over the resale value of my bikes. That's the least of my considerations of their values. I keep my bikes a long time. They will probably be sold after I'm gone. :smiley:
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And here I've been living with the black chromed steel headers for so many years, even thinking that they're looking good. :embarrassed:
But now I'm told otherwise, and that the best thing I can do is to start looking for some stainless ones. :undecided:
You WG members are for sure a merciless lot ,as I'm getting to understand now that most of my choices and most of what I'm doing to the bike is bad or wrong.
Its not without a certain pain that I must confess that I made my luggage-rack without any use of vise grips, and I don't want to talk about the dreadfully uncomfortable stock seat today.
What`s important to me now is to try and save the humble remains of my self-esteem. :sad:
(http://thumb.ibb.co/mBg1UG/DSC02220_zpsa168419d.jpg) (http://ibb.co/mBg1UG)
Looks good mate, you must be doing something right :thumb:
:cool: :boozing:
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Thanks for everyone's input. My bike has a mix of old and new parts and hasn't been painted in a while. I'm gonna go with stainless. Sounds like they are more durable and will match the overall patina of the bike.
Maybe wrapping it is a cheaper option? :undecided:
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what is the best approach to remove surface rust on the chromed headers and mufflers of my V7 Sport?
my usual method is autosol + lots of elbow grease but willing to consider other tricks and tips.
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I like those Black Chrome ones too. To bad it seems impossible to get old ones done over. New ones are not available....(Cagiva)
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(http://thumb.ibb.co/mBg1UG/DSC02220_zpsa168419d.jpg)
Yes, you must be wallowing in low self esteem. :smiley: Those white LMIIIs are as common as dirt and ugly as a board fence.
:grin:
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Aluminium cooking foil and water.
:thumb:
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I read about aluminum foils, do i crumple it into a ball before use?
I have some very fine steel wool at home, will it scratch the chrome finishing if I use it to remove the surface rust?
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I wonder why black chrome reproductions are not being made. Is it some sort of extremely difficult process to make them? They are rather delicate..
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I read about aluminum foils, do i crumple it into a ball before use?
I have some very fine steel wool at home, will it scratch the chrome finishing if I use it to remove the surface rust?
I dealt with some light pitting on my old R60 with 0000 steel wool and WD40. A light polishing motion is all that is needed...just enough to clean out the rust/grime and even out the pitting. Follow it up with a nice hard shell wax...
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thanks for the tips guys, I think there is no short cut or fast and easy ways
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<(https://i.imgur.com/60EQ1XM.jpg)>
Stainless
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thanks for the tips guys, I think there is no short cut or fast and easy ways
The best materials would be Inconel, as used for some piston aircraft exhausts, or perhaps Titanium as used for some accessory motorcycle exhausts. I'm not aware of anything made from either material that's commercially available for Guzzis. Inconel tubing is about $25/lb as I recall, not cheap, not terribly expensive, but I'm told its hard to work with.
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The best materials would be Inconel, as used for some piston aircraft exhausts, or perhaps Titanium as used for some accessory motorcycle exhausts. I'm not aware of anything made from either material that's commercially available for Guzzis. Inconel tubing is about $25/lb as I recall, not cheap, not terribly expensive, but I'm told its hard to work with.
I have an Akrapovic titanium muffler on my Beemer, and it seems to be impervious to any type of corrosion. After years, still looks like new.
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I bought a great deal of Inconel when I worked in the petro-chemical business. It is indeed a great material for exhaust systems as it was designed to be corrosion resistant at very high temperatures. However, the price is prohibitively high (I recall purchasing 10" schedule 10 in the seventies...at $700/linear foot) and it must be TIG welded. It's beautiful stuff, though. It polishes out to a subtle gold color. We never had any waste with that stuff...all cut-offs went home in welder/pipefitter lunch boxes to be transformed into belt buckles.
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what is the best approach to remove surface rust on the chromed headers and mufflers of my V7 Sport?
my usual method is autosol + lots of elbow grease but willing to consider other tricks and tips.
As mentioned before crumpled up aluminum foil and water. You'll figure it out as soon as you start. Tylon was amazed at how easily the rust came off.
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/618/32647007643_bb7f6ced2c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/RJUrY8)2017-03-15_04-09-34 (https://flic.kr/p/RJUrY8) by Charles Stottlemyer (https://www.flickr.com/photos/107188298@N06/), on Flickr
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thanks for the tips, I watched a few aluminium foil + water/vinegar/coke rust removal off chromed suface videos in youtube, it really works.
https://youtu.be/e0FNlxDJbQo